/dev/chat - 2015-05-27

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12:35 AM

@terdon Curious where you get the 90% figure from.

@roaima Linux is a kernel. The appelation of Linux as an operating system is sort of a convenient tag; it really means something like "Unix-like operating systems running the Linux kernel with a specific kind of userland, heavily involving the C library/compiler toolchain from the GNU project". Since nobody would actually say that, they say Linux instead. And is controversial in some circles.

I'm actually not terribly comfortable saying Linux, and I tend to try to say Linux-based OS. But even that can be awkward.

Hmm, Stallman would not be happy with the linux wiki.

12:52 AM

@FaheemMitha [tag:linux]

@Braiam Thank you. I keep forgetting how to do that.

1 hour later…

2:00 AM

@FaheemMitha he's welcome to suggest an edit...

@casey LOL

And good morning.

I mean evening/night, sorry.

I'm actually tempted to send a link to the linux wiki to Stallman just to see what happens...

5 hours later…

6:51 AM

Maybe we need some review audits:

unix.stackexchange.com/review/first-posts/92114

3 hours later…

9:56 AM

This answer deserves a downvote. Some will be happy to know that I did downvote it.

1

A: How to run a command before download with apt-get?

First determine where is apt-get using whereis apt-get; I will assume it's in /usr/sbin/apt-get Now mv /usr/sbin/apt-get /usr/sbin/apt-get2 Then create a file in /usr/bin/apt-get with this content: #!/bin/bash commands to run before apt-get apt-get2 "$@" now chmod +x /usr/bin/apt-get Better...

Amazingly, this got two upvotes.

2 hours later…

12:12 PM

@FaheemMitha Pulled it straight out of my ass. Or off the top of my head, or whatever you prefer.

@FaheemMitha Why? It seems perfectly accurate.

1:12 PM

@Anthon if you found one, may be more

@terdon He objects to Linux as the name of the whole operating system. With reason.

Though I don't agree with his conclusion, or corollary, or whatever, that therefore it should be called GNU/Linux. I think is what is called a self-serving argument.

1:38 PM

@FaheemMitha Yes but the wiki states:

> In common usage, Linux is an operating system built around the Linux kernel. This operating system includes many other components, notably from the GNU project, so the term GNU/Linux is sometimes used.

That seems decent enough, even for Stallman.

@terdon The first sentence is the part he would object to.

Yeah, well...

By the way, does anyone have any idea what the hell is happening to my system?

If you don't believe me, write and ask him. He'll probably reply. He's an e-mailing maniac. So I hear.

I honestly don't give a damn.

He has my respect for many reasons but this kind of nitpicking is not one of them.

@terdon Fair enough.

@terdon The problem is restricted just to your user? How is logging in at the console?

As your user, I mean.

1:42 PM

@FaheemMitha like this:

$ su - terdon
Password:
Signature not found in user keyring
Perhaps try the interactive 'ecryptfs-mount-private'

And then I'm logged in OK

Same behavior from a tty.

@terdon In a tty, if you log in straight, what do you get?

I mean, no su.

By tty you mean a console, like with Alt-F1 etc, right?

Yes

@terdon Anthony is pretty good at this kind of thing. You could ask him for suggestions.

And he's online, cool. @derobert if you have a second, I'd appreciate a hand.

@terdon He's usually got his browser open on this page. Might or might not be around.

He pops in and out.

1:47 PM

As do we all. That's OK, if/when he has the time or inclination, he'll respond.

2:08 PM

@FaheemMitha he'll accost you for using a non-free site in the first place. Don't forget this place is a mostly a windows stack. Do send us his reply though if he offers one :)

Heh, true.

@casey do you have any idea what's going on here?

@terdon just saw that reading the scrollback. I'm reading it now, I'll let you know.

Cheers.

I'm assuming that gdm is bailing out when ecryptfs fails

That's what it looks like, yes. I don't see why ecryptfs is called in the first place though.

I only have one encrypted dir and that's not mounted by default.

2:18 PM

I have no experience with encryptfs but I agree that your problems are probably there

can you disable it (e.g. move its config somewhere that it doesn't try to run anymore?) and try to login?

I guess. Actually, I'll try purging it instead. I can always reinstall it to get my encrypted dir back.

I was thinking you could just move the .ecryptfs directory out of the way for a while, but purge/reinstall works :)

@casey No it doesn't, as it turns out. sudo apt-get purge ecryptfs-utils, restart -> same problem

I really don't think that's the issue though. The directory in question was not being mounted automatically.

@terdon does gnome have an analog to KDE's "startkde" command? e.g. you can startx into a bare X session and start up gnome in a verbose, debuggable way?

@casey I'm tempted - but I don't think I will.

That seems like a non-standard use of the word "accost".

2:32 PM

@casey Dunno, but I doubt that's relevant. I also get an error (though I can log in) from the command line.

I'll try using a different DE though, see of that changes anything.

@terdon right, I forgot about that

you may want to check the logs at /var/log/gdm

in that case I'd debug the login session (your rc/profile files and the system ones and see who is trying to start the encryptfs or do stuff with the keyring)

@terdon you didn't answer my original question. Or if you did, I missed it. If you try to log in directly on a console, then what happens?

And if you can repro without X, then it is better to debug without X.

@FaheemMitha read his Q, its in there

2:36 PM

@casey I did. Ok, looking again.

@casey Hasn't changed. The relevant part is presumably:

$ su - terdon

55 mins ago, by terdon

Same behavior from a tty.

But that suggests some user is already logged in at the termnal. Since $ i sa logged in prompt.

the relevant line is the one just before that, that terdon just pasted

@FaheemMitha same behavior from a tty :)

However, I just realized that i) I can log into different DEs (MATE works) and ii) choosing "Cinnamon session" as opposed to "System default" also works!

Which is weird 'cause Cinnamon is the system default as far as I know.

odd. Can you log into default session after logging out of the cinnamon session?

2:39 PM

If I'm not logged in, I see: orwell login: not $.

@casey No

@FaheemMitha the point is he didn't want to paste two things that are the same except for the first line

@FaheemMitha Yes. But as I told you above and wrote in my question I tried both with su and logging in directly from a tty and both behave in the same way.

e.g. imagine a second block that starts with 'login:' instead of su

@terdon hmmm

@casey Well, I personally would have added in a second block. But whatever. Anyway, it clearly then has nothing to do with X.

What does Signature not found in user keyring refer to?

What keyring is that?

2:43 PM

@FaheemMitha That's precisely the question. I really don't know.

@terdon Hmm, that should be an easy enough question to answer. Do you use gpg for encryption?

@Braiam Nothing relevant in :0.log which is the only one modified in the timeframe in question.

You said you encrypted some drive. What drive was that? Or was it just a filesystem?

@FaheemMitha I don't really use encryption. I only have a single encrypted dir and that's not mounted by default. My $HOME is not encrypted.

@terdon Ok. How does the encryption work? Is it public key?

2:44 PM

I only have an encrypted ~/Private directory.

sudo mount -t ecryptfs $HOME/Private/ $HOME/Private/

@terdon Ok. And currently not mounted, I assume?

Yup, not mounted

The whole thing set up simply by:

ok, there are two possible problems: 1. gdm is using an invalid path/session for the default entry; 2. is using a valid one but this fails due reasons

sudo aptitude install ecryptfs-utils
mkdir Private
sudo mount -t ecryptfs ~/Private ~/Private

@Braiam Sounds reasonable. Where are those set? /etc/gdm3?

@Braiam gdm?

@terdon Can you reboot to a lower level, where X does not come up?

2:46 PM

@terdon apparently dconf

@Braiam Oh, bugger.

Or just disable X temporarily?

@FaheemMitha I guess, but why?

@terdon To take X out of the picture. Unless you are already sure it is X.

But if it is X, why would it fail on the console?

X isn't involved there.

@FaheemMitha Why would X be in the picture when I log in from a tty?

Precisely.

2:47 PM

@terdon Exactly.

So why are we talking about gdm?

Because it also fails there. But hang on. I am now in my "Cinnamon" session, as opposed to "System default" and su - terdon works fine, no errors.

Hmm

So does dropping to a tty now. I guess purging ecryptfs fixed that but gdm is still confused.

This is very weird. I'm going to restart again and see what the current situation is.

how was it to find symlinks that pointed to one place?

I'll be damned. It now works fine O_o

probably just cruft in a bad state from not properly recovering from suspend then

3:02 PM

@casey That and removing the ecryptfs. I rebooted before removing it: no difference. Rebooted afterwards: no difference. Logged into different DE and session and then rebooted yet again: works.

Damn.

yea, I'm thinking the successful login to the other DE managed to fix the state of things

now I want to know... how the heck one is supposed to change the default?

@Braiam No idea. Can't find it in dconf or in /etc/gdm

I think I'll just delete the question. It sounds like a very specific problem that is unlikely to occur again and it sorta went away on its own so...

Thanks for the help @everyone

the ArchWiki abandoned me :(

2 hours later…

4:44 PM

@terdon what's up?

@derobert Had a weird problem that sorta kinda went away on its own. Thought you could help. You probably could have but all's well now. Thanks anyway :)

LOL, Ok. Having a vexing problem here it work. It goes by the name "Comcast".

No one can help. Such are the joys of Comcast.

You have my sympathy.

user image

I'm having a Comcastic day!

@derobert have you rebooted the modem? :)

4:55 PM

@casey Amazingly, that doesn't seem to ever help.

@derobert oh, I know. I had a fun time with Charter explaining to them my problems were due to ranging issues and T3 / T4 timeouts causing the cable modem to reset itself. Most of the reps just thought I was making that up and needed to reboot it until I found someone that knew you could view the cablemodem logs.

That guy sent me a tech who replaced a faulty splitter that was dropping too much signal in the frequency band the modem uses

man, we need that shibboleet thing

@casey I don't think this one has much as far as logs, at least that we can view.

@derobert i gathered that I wasn't supposed to know about the logs (and most of the reps didn't) but the motorola surfboard modem they gave me gives a bunch of information on 192.168.100.1

user image

... and yes, it forces you to view it through that tiny frame

5:03 PM

so, .services is a thing..

(I could probably fix that with Stylish, but haven't bothered)

No logs there, though. Just current status.

do you have an SLA or at the mercy of whatever they'll give you?

@casey i think we're at the mercy of whatever they give us. But I've never seen the contract, and I'm not involved in that...

is there any US ISP that doesn't suck?

Google?

@Braiam Cox is fairly good, last I heard.

5:14 PM

@derobert You mean this guy?

Brian Cox (physicist)

Brian Edward Cox, OBE (born 3 March 1968), is an English physicist, and professor of particle physics in the School of Physics and Astronomy at the University of Manchester. He is best known to the public as the presenter of science programmes, especially the Wonders of... series and has been described as the natural successor for BBC's scientific programming by both David Attenborough and the late Patrick Moore. Before his academic career, Cox was a keyboard player for the bands D:Ream and Dare. == Early life and education == Cox was born in the Royal Oldham Hospital, later living in Chadderton...

That Brian, not Braiam :P

:-P

Cox Communications

Cox Communications (also known as Cox Cable and formerly Cox Broadcasting Corporation, Dimension Cable Services and Times-Mirror Cable) is a privately owned subsidiary of Cox Enterprises providing digital cable television, telecommunications and Home Automation services in the United States. It is the third-largest cable television provider in the United States, serving more than 6.2 million customers, including 2.9 million digital cable subscribers, 3.5 million Internet subscribers, and almost 3.2 million digital telephone subscribers, making it the seventh-largest telephone carrier in the country...

3 hours later…

8:22 PM

Wow. Just upgraded and restarted Chromium... now I have the large print edition. WTF.

user image

It's also doing way too much antialiasing.

user image

One of those is antialiased (that'd be Iceweasel). One is just a drunkard using manual focus mode. That'd be Chromium.

Seems --force-device-scale-factor=1 helps

Improves but doesn't fix the antialias. Returns the tabs and URL bar to sane font sizes.

8:51 PM

@derobert you have unattended upgrades?

there was a commotion some time back when hidpi was enabled (again), because chromium has no idea how to get the correct values

9:06 PM

@derobert Upgraded to what? Is this testing?

@FaheemMitha Yeah. Testing, just updated to Chromium 43. Was on 42. Stable also has 43...

Well, stable updates does at least

@derobert yes, I'm running 43 too.

Are there problems with it?

Errr.... see the above two screenshots?

Oh, also, I've found at some point they broke kiosk mode.

@FaheemMitha only large screens with DPI over 96 have problems

@Braiam That doesn't mean a lot to me. Not sure what my DPI my screens have.

@derobert Yes, I see them.

9:16 PM

@Braiam Well, that'd be pure BS, as this is on an ancient CRT.

@FaheemMitha xdpyinfo | grep -B 2 resolution

I just figure when Google hires a developer, they first assign them to search. If they're not good enough, they try Android. Then a few other things. Finally, janitor, Google+, and at the very bottom of the list, Chrome.

xdpyinfo | grep -B 2 resolution
screen #0:
dimensions: 3200x1200 pixels (956x354 millimeters)
resolution: 85x86 dots per inch

screen #0:
  dimensions:    1600x1200 pixels (406x305 millimeters)
  resolution:    100x100 dots per inch

... and if they think that's HiDPI, then they're insane

xdpyinfo | grep -B 2 resolution
screen #0:
  dimensions:    1024x768 pixels (270x203 millimeters)
  resolution:    96x96 dots per inch

^ that would be "normal"

well, now I know who has the smaller screen size

9:19 PM

@derobert I thought Google was super-selective and only hired developers with lightning bolts shooting out of the top of their heads.

I assume that's the composite screen from my two displays.

@FaheemMitha Judging by the amount of brokenness they've shipped in Chrome, apparently not. Or maybe they outsource Chrome development...

@derobert If they outsource to India, that would explain it. If your Chromium turns upside down and starts playing Hindi films songs, that would be a good indication.

@FaheemMitha well, the Google search results page is tilted ... is that close enough?

Somestimes it spins around.

@derobert That an interesting effect, how did you manage that?

Oh, it's google being cute?

@derobert And that one too?

Hmm, apparently yes.

Well, clearly, they outsourced it. Couldn't even build the page straight. :-P

9:29 PM

I've heard mixed things about this outsourcing business. Some talk about it as though it was Armageddon and a corporate conspiracy to drive down US wages. But others say it just doesn't work very well, so people end up using US labor again.

@Braiam I didn't have much by way of problems with Time Warner in the Triangle. Of course, that was a while ago now.

1 hour later…

10:47 PM

user image

Wow, WP is returning an error:

[79ebe08c] 2015-05-27 22:54:57: Fatal exception of type MWException

Anyone else seeing this?

This has got to be a first. Is it a Harbinger of the Apocalypse?

@FaheemMitha yes

11:02 PM

@Gilles Seems to have gone away, at least for the moment. Any idea what was causing that?

@FaheemMitha no

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