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12:01 AM
Check this out. I'm pretty proud of this. Never messed with a prompt before:
3
A: Stateful bash function

mikeservUPDATE: So I edited this a little: cat /tmp/prompt OUTPUT: ps1() { IFS=/$IFS ; set -- \ ${PWD%"${last="${PWD##/*/}"}"} IFS=${IFS#?} printf "${1+%.1s/}" "$@" printf "$last > " } PS1='$(ps1)${PS2c##*[$((PS2c=0))-9]}' PS2='$((PS2c=PS2c+1)) > ' So now I can: ENV=/...

 
@mikeserv ah, you thought of arithmetic expansion too
your answer lacks an explanation though
 
Well yeah - my answer's been up for like 6 hours.
No, it says exactly what it does - look at the bottom.
That guy was crazy hung up on scope, @Gilles.
 
I searched for “arithmetic” before writing my answer and found 0 occurrences on the page
 
I showed him how like 5 different ways.
But I didn't use a bash array. I just used the good-old fashioned parameter substitution.
It's kinda cool - the variable strips its setting of itself.
It's weird.
I didn't write arithmetic - I just talked about where the state was and why.
Everybody kept telling me I couldn't do it.
 
ah, yes, you use ${last=…} and $((PS2c=…))
your answer is very hard to follow. It's difficult to see what is the example code and what is the demonstration.
you should explain in words
 
12:09 AM
I can. That's a good point. I felt a little hounded on this actually - you see the comment thread underneath my post?
 
@Gilles can you help me to shot down some tag wiki's edit in AU?
 
Look at this: ${PS2c##*[$((PS2c=0))-9]}
 
I understand what makes your answer tick, and I have a hard time figuring out what you're doing, so your answer is likely to be incomprehensible to someone who hasn't seen that trick before
@Braiam what, you want me to harass the mods again?
 
I hadn't seen that trick before either..
 
@Gilles nah, just some silly wiki/man page dumps
 
12:10 AM
and post a link, don't wait for me to engage conversation
I don't have 20k on AU
 
meh, they were all approved
 
@Braiam we can take them back if @mikeserv submits better content and you and I approve it
or you write better content and post the link here and I can cast the first approval
 
Better content? That was a masterwork! Now I just have to explain it...
 
I feel confident that I can write one of any of those
 
What's that @Braiam?
 
12:17 AM
the others are sms, dvb-t, dvb and pppoe
 
I still have to do the homework @Gilles just gave me...
 
so, you are saying that Gilles has priority over me? O_O
 
@mikeserv, are you even signed up to AU?
 
@Graeme - What's AU?
 
Ask Ubuntu
 
12:21 AM
@mikeserv Take it that's a no then.
@mikeserv AU is Ask Ubuntu
 
I think I am. I answered one question there. But OP got deleted or something.
 
2
Q: SSH session through OpenVPN cuts off / locks up after a few lines

ethrbunnyI have a large number of identical fanless PCs running debian 6 (ARM). Most of these are connected via comcast and work ok. There are some that are connected to 'WiMax' modems and are having communication issues. Specifically: if I ssh to one of these and try a command like 'ps -ax' I'll get abo...

^^^^ I've answered, but I have zero experience with openvpn. If you do, please go ahead and post a better answer.
 
slm
12:50 AM
@Graeme I retracted my vote earlier to day. The guy had posted this Q 2 times from what I recall. Once the 2nd Q was closed i retracted on this one.
 
@Gilles - has the quality improved?
3
A: Stateful bash function

mikeservUPDATE: So I edited this a little. I stuck it in /tmp for now but I think I'm going to keep it for myself, too. It's here: cat /tmp/prompt PROMPT SCRIPT: ps1() { IFS=/$IFS ; set -- \ ${PWD%"${last="${PWD##/*/}"}"} IFS=${IFS#?} printf "${1+%.1s/}" "$@" printf "$last >...

 
slm
@Gilles Wish I could. I've had OpenVPN on my "todo" list for ~6months.
 
1:05 AM
@mikeserv the whole part about how you truncate PWD is a distraction. You should post that on a separate Q&A.
 
What Q&A?
 
> Again, ${parameter##expansion} saves the day.
no, that's false. It isn't used for anything useful.
$((PS2c=0)) is what saves the day
 
It is useful! Without it we'd have a zero in our output.
And $((this is parameter expansion)) too.
 
btw, please avoid meta-edits, the "edited" "update" and fluff can be removed, there's a post history for that stuff ;)
 
i answered that question with the math thing some 6 or so hours ago. And before that I showed how it could be doing by parsing vars.
The first part demonstrates the syntax that makes the second part possible. And it's fully portable.
And very fast - there are only like 4 or 5 ops per prompt.
Thanks @Braiam - I pulled that stuff. Better without it.
But the other stuff, @Gilles, I think it's valuable because it's a demonstrates the concepts that make it work.
 
1:36 AM
ARG! In the local news they used "heartbleed virus" :(
 
2:32 AM
@Braiam ugh
 
Hah. BBC and Washington Post have been reporting this...
but which browsers actually download CRLs by default?
Doesn't everyone use OCSP?
 
> first to crack the code
he... umm... didn't crack anything....
 
And when I finally find a comment that mentions OCSP, its still wrong (like all comments on news sites, it seems). Latest version of Firefox, at least, enables OCSP by default. And has for a while, I believe.
 
@derobert yeah, it got turned on a while ago. but it's not actually enforced.
look under Preferences > Advanced > Validation
 
Well, no reply isn't treated as a failure (which conceivably means the attacker can just block the server, preventing validation)
 
2:45 AM
@derobert exactly.
OSCP landed long ago but it's not enforced properly.
not because Mozilla is incompetent, but because it would break the internet
 
yep, because enough CAs put OCSP in their certs but then apparently don't actually answer OCSP requests :-(
 
CAs are incompetent
and PKI is super messed up
 
Yeah. PKI works well inside an enterprise/organization, but beyond that...
 
something like Monkeysphere is much better
I almost can't bring myself to say that, due to the fact that I, in fact, have not gotten my crap together and still rely solely on PKI
 
Its only really better in the sense that its cheaper...
 
2:53 AM
isn't it more secure? because it's built on the Web of Trust?
at least that way you don't get the centralization problem
@slm pick whatever
@slm ah
@FaheemMitha yes, check the spreadsheet; it's linked to from the "Call for Papers" question
 
I'm pretty sure the web of trust gives you one of a few problems—you have no trust path to a lot of stuff (you only trust people you're very confident in); you just a get a trust path to an organization you trust, and everyone gets that organization to verify identities (I think they call that a CA); or you cast such a wide web of trust that anyone with some money can get verified as gmail via bribery.
Pick one :-(
It's a hard problem to solve.
 
yeah, it is.
and it's hard to sell Web of Trust from a UX standpoint.
 
tbh I don't know the technical details of how Monkeysphere functions, so...
 
I don't know the technical details either, but its supposedly built on gpg
 
2:57 AM
right. GPG == WoT
mostly
 
The big problems with PKI are that you have a bunch of CAs of questionable trust, and they all charge a bunch of $$$ for their services.
Web of trust strikes me as making the first problem worse, but helps the second problem.
And of course, is a UX nightmare.
 
@derobert exactly
the problem with PKI is that it's only as secure as the least competent CA. in PKI, there's no such thing as a "partially trusted CA".
 
There could be. That's not fundamental to PKI.
And there is talk of doing things like that—e.g., of warning when a site's certificate is suddenly signed by a different CA
But there are a lot of things we don't really know how to solve. E.g., can NSA get a court order for Verisign (or any CA in the US) to give them a certificate for a web site of their choice? (And similarly for other governments.)
And you can't not accept Verisign certs because, well, you won't have connectivity anymore.
 
@derobert it's not, but it's the way the system is implemented today.
the thing with PKI is that it solves two completely separate things that people often put together. it solves the need to have encryption, and it solves the need to identify the website you're talking to.
PKI solves the second. it is generally used to solve the first (but not always - self-signed certificates can solve this too). there's an important distinction.
sorry, I sound like I'm lecturing...
 
3:08 AM
@strugee Encryption is pretty worthless if you don't know who you're sending the encrypted message to.
Now, there is something browser vendors could fix immediately: there is absolutely no reason that an unverified, encrypted connection should be scarier than an unverified, unencrypted connection. But all browsers have huge warnings for the former, but not the later.
That would allow a lot more people to turn on SSL.
And it'd at least make the NSA have to mount active attacks instead of passive.
(or we could deploy dnssec, which solves the #(!(@#* issue)
DNS-based Authentication of Named Entities (DANE) is a proposed protocol to allow X.509 certificates, commonly used for Transport Layer Security (TLS), to be bound to DNS names using Domain Name System Security Extensions (DNSSEC). It is proposed in RFC 6698 as a way to authenticate TLS client and server entities without a certificate authority (CA). Background of the problem TLS/SSL encryption is currently based on certificates issued by certificate authorities (CAs). Within the last few years, a number of CA providers suffered serious security breaches, allowing the issuance of certi...
... That largely makes CAs obsolete, if we actually deployed it.
 
@derobert not saying it isn't. but the solution to the two doesn't have to be the same thing.
@derobert but you can't display it as secure either, because you could be getting man-in-the-middled.
 
@strugee yep. That's fine. Just display it the same as an unencrypted page. Its surely no less secure than that.
 
@derobert THIS. CAN WE JUST GET BLOODY DNSSEC.
I actually have a DNSSEC verifier addon installed but it doesn't work on any of my machines because there isn't support in the underlying OS (either because it didn't ship with Windows or because I haven't set it up yet)
I read somewhere that all DNS root zones now supported DNSSEC...
 
I think honestly we mostly have DNSSEC at this point. At least the server part. E.g., I checked, even GoDaddy supports DNSSEC.
 
@derobert shrugs
 
3:16 AM
Its client stuff that needs it.
 
yep
ah, found it
 
Anyway, fixing (i.e., removing) the self-signed certificate warnings is some pretty low-hanging fruit to some notable security improvements. You could even make some pretty large improvements, if you included a warning when the cert changes (with some way to disable it, e.g., by signing the new cert with the old one).
 
you can do that
it's called HTTP Strict Transport Security
 
no, that's to disable non-SSL connections
 
yes, but it also covers certificate pinning, doesn't it?
 
3:25 AM
I don't think so, I think that's separate. But either way, you'd need to get rid of the self-signed warning
 
looks like the IETF is working on an RFC:
 
self-signed + pinning defeats most attacks... you're only vulnerable the first time you visit.
 
yep
PKI makes you less vulnerable
maybe that's how Monkeysphere is supposed to work: prevent man-in-the-middles. like a decentralized list of expected certificates.
 
it plus pinning would probably be fairly resilient, but mostly that's from pinning.
 
yeah
Michael edited my post. I feel so special
 
3:36 AM
That's part of putting it on the sidebar, possibly.
 
weird... iceweasel depends of libpulse
 
yeah ensures that it gets on the sidebar. I think some things get put there automatically, in addition
 
@Braiam possibly for the web audio API?
 
@Braiam not really. Iceweasel/Firefox audio output goes through PulseAudio.
HTML5 <audio> and <video>
 
dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libpulse-dev
so... apparently has some configurations to enable pulse
 
3:38 AM
you may be confused because Flash (which is still widely used to play audio) shows up as an ALSA sink
 
debian/changelog: - Add build dependency on libpulse-dev.
 
I wonder why it wasn't there before
 
@strugee now there's a bug that needs to be fixed—flash is still widely used.
 
@derobert make that NPAPI in general
 
was introduced in 28
 
3:39 AM
but yeah screw Flash
 
shumway!
 
@strugee Does anyone use it besides Flash?
 
half of Flash usage is just legacy sites and half of Flash usage is just for the DRM module. that's it.
 
I guess maybe Java, but who has that enabled in a browser anymore?
 
@derobert any plugin uses it.
 
3:40 AM
3
A: Flash player that doesn't try to sneak in extra software

BraiamIf you use Firefox you can also opt-in for Shumway. It is available in Nightly build (and by extension), with some quirks proper of something that isn't quite cooked, but would work as full replacement of Flash given enough time. There are other full alternatives like GNU Gnash but lack of suppo...

 
@Braiam <3
 
@strugee But I don't think there are that many other common plugins. At least on Linux.
 
@derobert Unity3D uses it (but that's changing because they have JS as a deployment platform now)
 
what the....? find . -name "*.pyc" -o -name "*.pyo" | xargs --no-run-if-empty rm -f in the configuration scripts
 
@derobert yeah, that's true
@Braiam for what?
 
3:42 AM
I'm building iceweasel
 
@Braiam maybe upstream ships some precompiled python stuff that needs to be nuked? Though I'll give you that is a useless use of xargs
 
dget http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/i/iceweasel/…
sudo apt-get build-dep iceweasel
sudo apt-get install libpulse-dev
debuild
 
hah
 
I just hope it doesn't build a binary for each translation... I will cry
2
 
why are you building Iceweasel, anyway?
 
3:46 AM
testing patches
 
@Braiam Never, ever rebuild a full kernel package. You'll cry when you see how long that takes even with -j16 on a machine capable of such.
 
in the AU room there was this guy that needed to dissect a regression of the kernel... I think that's worse
 
Nah, that's not too bad, the kernel makefiles are actually pretty good. You usually don't need to do a make clean between git bisect attempts
 
@derobert eh
 
@strugee The Debian packages build almost everything as a module, so each build takes a while. And they repeat the full build multiple times to make different variants—e.g., i486, i686, amd64, etc.
There used to be even more...
Obviously, if you customize your own kernel, you can turn a lot of those ms to ns, and also not build the variants you don't need.
 
3:51 AM
@derobert hah. sounds awful. see, on Arch, we only like to compile for the platform that we're going to be using GASP omigoddidhejustsaythat
although it's probably pretty easy to turn off, amirite?
 
Yes, its quite easy. But if you just rebuild the source package, it takes a while, because you didn't turn any off
 
right
 
Surely the Arch kernels must have most everything built, else your first step to installing Arch would be install a different distro first and build a kernel :-P
 
yeah, I haven't looked into it but I'm pretty sure we build a ton of modules
but we build, you know. one architecture
well, one at a time
 
Hah, Arch doesn't build several ia32 kernels?
 
3:55 AM
???
why would you do that?
 
I only see 3 on Debian now: 486, 686, and amd64. There used to be a lot more. The kernel has been getting better at not needing different configs for performance to not suck.
@strugee well, i686 performs much better than i486, but won't run everywhere.
I suppose maybe Arch doesn't care...
 
ah, I see.
we build i586 kernels, IIRC.
 
Debian used to also have pae variants, and xen variants, and several more
 
and then amd64 kernels. that's it.
 
And before the kernel fixed the SMP overhead, Debian had both uniprocessor and smp variants
 
3:58 AM
smh
and then don't forget the server and desktop flavours
 
Its gotten much better as those variants have either become obsolete (who uses PAE anymore? You use a 64-bit chip if you want more than 3G) or there isn't a huge overhead anymore (smp)
 
right.
 
@strugee I don't think Debian ever had server v. desktop kernels. Though maybe there were preemption vs. non-premption ones at some point...
 
and then there's the fact that APT just doesn't delete kernel packages.
@derobert dunno about Debian but Ubuntu has those
I guess that's not exactly a great indication
 
@strugee well, it does if you tell it to. The default config is not to autoremove them.
 
4:01 AM
oh, Debian...
I guess Arch does have more than 2 kernels
we have LTS kernels too
 
$ head -n21 /etc/kernel/postinst.d/apt-auto-removal
#!/bin/sh
set -e

# Author: Steve Langasek <steve.langasek@canonical.com>
#
# Mark as not-for-autoremoval those kernel packages that are:
#  - the currently booted version
#  - the kernel version we've been called for
#  - the latest kernel version (determined using rules copied from the grub
#    package for deciding which kernel to boot)
#  - the second-latest kernel version, if the booted kernel version is
#    already the latest and this script is called for that same version,
... so apparently its actually only some kernels that aren't auto-removed. Or at least, that's what testing is doing. Possibly wheezy was different.
 
I've seen waaaaaay more than three. but that was on an Ubuntu Server box.
 
Yeah. Ubuntu definitely will keep them...
 
0
Q: Tcpdump, display only the data section of the packet

Vicente Adolfo Bolea SánchezI am trying to display only the data section of an udp packet using tcpdump. In some other words, is it any way to filter the header section of the udp package? The below command sudo tcpdump -Aq -i lo udp port 1234 returns: E..".J@.@.U~.........v.....!HELLO How can I discard the E..".J@...

 
At least, 12.04 LTS did.
 
4:05 AM
@slm @derobert ^?
 
@derobert I find it amusing that you say that, and yet, the script was written by a Canonical guy
 
@Braiam no idea... my best guess would be to check the tcpdump manpage
@strugee Well, not sure when it was. Or if Ubuntu ships it. Steve has been a Debian guy longer than Canonical has existed, if I remember correctly...
12.04 LTS isn't exactly the newest Ubuntu release.
 
WAT
 
true
 
Installing Setuptools..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................done.
Installing Pip.....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................done.
 
4:08 AM
Well, you surely have gotten your USDA recommended allotment of dots in your diet today.
 
my guess is that it printed a . for every 1kb of data unzipped or something
isolinux does that, for sections of the Linux kernel loaded into memory. or something like that
 
meh, this is stupid, it has --disable-pedantic as configuration but fails because it can't find a pip virtualenv
 
hmmm, askubuntu has gone read-only
they did say they were doing some db maintenance tonight, but I thought that was on SO.
 
@derobert really?
(posted an A just now)
 
4:14 AM
yeah, came back
 
4:49 AM
apparently the LKML has not been very impressed with my email. lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/15/55
 
 
2 hours later…
6:48 AM
@strugee They're known to be a fun, welcoming place.
Hang on, you haven't had any replies yet.
 
You think Linus is going to swear at him?
 
@mikeserv Unlikely.
 
Shame.
 
7:36 AM
@mikeserv Linus swears at other people, though.
 
Recently at Kay someone.
 
@mikeserv Yes, I saw that.
 
I'd never heard of the guy before.
 
@mikeserv Me neither. But Linux has a lot of developers.
 
Yeah, but Phoronix him was calling him a famous dev.
 
 
3 hours later…
11:12 AM
Any ideas on this?
1
Q: CRON Permission Denied

Luca CoppolaI know that there are already a lot of questions about this issue, but I didn't find the right answer to my problem. I have a Debian 7.3 Server with WebMin installed. I configured a cron job to run every minute as root user, so i run the command crontab -l when i'm logged in as root it shows: ...

 
@terdon nope, no idea,
also do you receive my ping here ?
 
Yes, why not?
 
 
2 hours later…
1:28 PM
@Gilles - thank you. First of all, can you answer my question about using cat? If what you suggested is better I'll try it, but I need to know for sure if it will work. Second, it's cool that you know so much more about Linux than I do, but I just asked a question as to why the installer chose a different partition. I did say what I did using the installer if you read the question. I asked out of curiosity and I was afraid that /dev/sda2 on the original disk and /dev/sda3 on the target disk might cause problems. A simple "that won't cause problems" would have been enough. :) — Tensigh 14 mins ago
not sure if it should be reopened. Y'all who've used the CentOS installer, do you understand the question?
 
1:42 PM
@slm ^?
 
@Gilles - doubt I'd help much, but... what question?
The comment's linked. nevermind.
Strange that regional should be reluctant to grant him permission to move entire disk images via vpn...
@Gilles - I commented there.
I think that guy is making a mountain of a mole-hill.
In any case - I don't believe it should be reopened.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:25 PM
BTW, please, provide links of where you read that you can "downgrade USB 3.0 to USB 2.0". I would like to have a talk with them. — Braiam 45 secs ago
 
4:20 PM
@Braiam There might be a BIOS setting to do that (e.g., make the hardware pretend to be a USB2 controller)
@terdon my idea is to strace cron and figure out where-th-#@!(# that error is coming from
 
hey. @derobert
@derobert mike finally posted in the getting-to-know-you question thread, so now it is your turn. :-)
It is an entertaining read:
3
A: Getting to know you: who are you and why do spend time on unix.sx?

mikeservI like destruction. Not in the smash-it-up kinda way, though that can have its finer points, but more as the reverse of construction. I like things broken into pieces - not just broken - because I like to know what goes on inside a thing that makes it tick in the first place. If I'm lucky - and I...

You should try to out-do him. Tell us all about your childhood being bought up by wolves.
 
4:38 PM
@FaheemMitha I've never claimed to be a wolf's slave...
 
@derobert Not a wolf's slave. Bought up by wolves. So, the offspring of wolves. Like Mowgli.
 
@FaheemMitha I think you're missing an r there... Both times.
 
@derobert Sorry, too subtle for me...
I can't do crosswords either.
 
You mean brought, past tense of bring, not bought, past tense of buy.
@FaheemMitha being bought up by wolves means the wolves purchased you...
 
continues reading English Class with Prof. @derobert
 
4:43 PM
@derobert Ah, right. My bad.
 
Hah, I thought it was a typo, and was trying for a joke...
 
I guess I don't notice the difference between those two words very much.
Per
2
Q: Why do deleted files continually reappear?

user1340073I've been having a strange issue recently, where I would delete files from a location (i.e. Desktop), and then empty the Trash. However, a day or so later (I'm not sure exactly what triggers it), the files reappear with new permissions (644). How do I either figure out what's causing it, or stop...

 
> Close the ones that are crap, vote to delete the ones that are already closed
anyone thinks I'm saying to delete everything?
 
would it be possible to tag a particular filename / path location with some kind of audit. so if it is re-created, one can see how?
@Braiam Er, what?
 
@FaheemMitha wow, that's the type of thing that'd make me take an immediate shutdown -F -r now, followed possibly by a memtest...
 
4:46 PM
in an expression, which represents better my wording: if (crap = true) then close; if (crap = true and closed = true) then delete or if (crap = true) then close; if (closed = true) then delete
 
@derobert You think it means something bad?
 
That sounds like a filesystem badly malfunctioning. But actually, I wonder if this person is running from a CD or something, and an overlay filesystem is malfunctioning...
 
@derobert Would there be any trace in the system logs?
 
@FaheemMitha No idea. I have precisely 0 overlay filesystems running. I'd guess kernel (dmesg) or /var/log/syslog. But it could be buried....
 
@derobert ok. are you going to comment?
 
4:51 PM
I'm not familiar with Mint's setup, so I'm going to avoid being drug into that comment thread, but grep ~ /proc/mounts would be interesting. Or grep /home /proc/mounts. Or df -T ~.
Also interesting would be to confirm using ls etc. that the deletes are actually happening.
 
@derobert "going to avoid being drug"? I think you mean "drugged".
 
@FaheemMitha Nah, as in drag, not drugged like with crazy purple knockout gas.
Though you're right that the later would be required to join that thread.
 
@derobert just kidding
 
 
1 hour later…
6:14 PM
@mikeserv @FaheemMitha he's the main driver of systemd, along with Lennart
Kay Sievers
 
@strugee I see.
@strugee any answers to your post? Did Linus abuse you?
 
I knew about Lennart - and that's actually who I expected to read about Linus swearing at. Apparently it's the other guy.
 
@mikeserv I thought he was (chewing out Sievers, that is).
 
@FaheemMitha sadly, I haven't been blessed with holy penguin pee. even with swearing.
 
@strugee Sounds disgusting.
 
6:16 PM
@mikeserv right.
@FaheemMitha it's an expression from the Jargon File
but yeah
 
@strugee I believe you.
 
@FaheemMitha :P
no but I actually wish Linus would swear at me. I'd be honored
kind of
 
Apparently Thompson and Ritchie both have beards.
@strugee Really, I wouldn't be. He seems like kind of a jerk. Though sometimes maybe he is just doing his job.
He does babble nonsense sometimes though. Like about C++.
 
@FaheemMitha right. emphasis on "kind of"
 
@strugee how do you mean?
 
6:23 PM
@FaheemMitha I'd be half honored that Linus deigned to speak to me and half really, really offended
 
@strugee Ah. Mixed Emotions.
 
I think it would be fun to have a foul-mouthed match with that guy.
 
@mikeserv Really? Why?
 
I like swearing.
 
Actually, I notice nobody ever seems to stand up to the guy. He thinks he's always right. But that is not actually possible. He's only human.
@mikeserv Ok. Whatever does it for you.
 
6:26 PM
It doesn't do anything - it's just a tender, personal conceit.
 
@mikeserv ok
 
In fairness, systemd is pretty screwed up.
 
@mikeserv I think it's OK
 
I mean, it's fast, and it's covering a lot of very cool ground, but it's still pretty screwed up.
 
Swearing is actually pretty impersonal. Everyone (English speakers, anyway) uses the same words. It would be a lot more interesting if people swore in exotic foreign languages, or better, invented their own swear words.
 
6:27 PM
now, the fact that they've refused to stop spewing logs is ridiculous.
but the rest is mostly OK I think
 
I do invent swearwords.
 
@mikeserv do tell
 
Their syntax is ridiculous!
I'd rather not. I might do some inventing.
 
@mikeserv what, specifically?
 
6:29 PM
@mikeserv I thought that was the idea.
 
@mikeserv smeg! there you go.
 
Haha! You like Red Dwarf?
My favorite was Cat.
RequiredBy=
systemd.unit(5)

Requires=
systemd.unit(5)

RequiresMountsFor=
systemd.unit(5)

RequiresOverridable=
systemd.unit(5)

Requisite=
systemd.unit(5)

RequisiteOverridable=
systemd.unit(5)
req was too simple, i guess.
 
@mikeserv well, it's better than sysv scripts
 
@mikeserv Yes, I guess I do.
 
6:32 PM
And when they first put it together it was supposed to eschew the whole notion of dependency.
Now its nothing but a tangled knot of dependencies.
 
@mikeserv no it wasn't
 
Yes, it was.
 
how so?
 
And Sysv was easy - it was basically shell!
 
sysv was horrifying
 
6:33 PM
The idea was units would not depend on one another, only on targets.
That is not the case.
 
@mikeserv can you back that up?
 
And even if it were, how many goddamned targets are there?
Just look at the list above?
 
oh, do you mean everyone's just supposed to use socket-based activation
 
No, but probably systemd should.
 
@mikeserv no, your assertion about the idea. not that the idea isn't the case
 
6:35 PM
My assertion about the targets?
 
@mikeserv ????? systemd pioneered socket-based activation
 
Sure - just read Lennart's blog.
 
2 mins ago, by mikeserv
The idea was units would not depend on one another, only on targets.
 
They did NOT!!
Just read Lennart's blog - the 20 or so articles.
 
I've read a fair amount
I have to go though, sorry
I have a paper to work on
 
6:38 PM
@strugee take care.
 
@FaheemMitha thanks, you too
 
It's cool. I'd rather not talk about it. Leaves a bitter taste. Like a politician you once thought held promise.
Doesn't matter anyway - apparently Lennart's systemd blog is down. I wonder if it's socket activated?
 
 
2 hours later…
8:23 PM
@terdon are you around?
 
 
2 hours later…
10:14 PM
0
A: CRON Permission Denied

PaulWNo direct answer, sorry, but it looks like http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8475694/how-to-specify-in-crontab-by-what-user-to-run-script might be useful to you.

who upvoted this??
and it's not even the first posts queue reviewer, though that guy needs a telling off too
 
10:42 PM
@Gilles Dunno but there should be two delete votes on it now, won't last long.
 
slm
@Gilles UV'd the A?
 
@slm yes, someone did
 
slm
OK. I see the Up/Down now. Wasn't me
I voted to delete it as well
 
@Gilles I reviewed the FP and had a dv
 
@Braiam no, you didn't. Are you confusing with another post?
 
10:49 PM
yeah, apparently, I know I saw it in the queue, maybe in the close queue
 
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