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12:30 AM
@Sp3000 got it
esolangs seems to be down :(
 
Oh wow, nice work
 
1:12 AM
I wish my phone keyboard had backticks
Makes it hard to post golfs from the train
 
@Sp3000 Android or iOS?
 
iOS
 
Heretic. :)
I believe you can tap and hold the ' key to find the backtick, though.
 
@Sp3000 Your code and my code for Shotgun numbers are effectively identical :-)
I wrote it while it was it the sandbox -- did you as well?
 
D:
@xnor I started only 2 minutes before Martin posted... doing the ><> solution first :)
@Doorknob Found it! Damn hiding backtick...
Didn't know you could hold keyboard letters
@xnor btw nice trick with the range question, will update later
 
1:31 AM
@Sp3000 Here's a shorter way to do the shotgun update: n+=i*(n/i%2-~-n/i%2)
actually, i might have a shorter way...
 
@randomra Sorry. My brain isn't up to track right now.
But still, I found a one-byte improvement.
 
1:56 AM
Thanks, edited.
 
` The backtick is probably one of my favorite characters.
 
I never use ` apart from here
 
That particular keyboard key is probably the least used.
 
I use backtick all the time for Markdown (SE, Github, some blogging software, personal notes, etc.) and code (Ruby shell exec, Bash (although $() is better), Python 2 repr, etc.). I'd say my least used key would be either Insert/Scroll Lock or one of the right-side modifier keys (right Ctrl, right Alt, right Shift).
In fact, I probably never use those at all. :P
 
Is it bad that I forgot that there was a right shift?
 
2:10 AM
It's like commenting your code. We all know you're supposed to use it, but nobody really does.
 
Does anybody around here use a proper typing method?
 
What do you mean by "proper"?
I touch-type, but I guess not in a strictly "proper" way (ex. I usually use my right index finger for "y" instead of my left index finger).
 
The "four fingers on the home row, index fingers on the little bumps" method.
Because I never use that method.
 
Yeah, I type like that. How do you?
 
I'm on an iPad right now, and I'm one-handing the whole time.
 
2:14 AM
Ah. I use Swype on my phone (with one hand (one finger, actually)).
 
If I were on an actual keyboard, I would use a very disorganized typing method.
 
@Doorknob do you type all the right-side spec chars ([]{}=+;'".etc) with your right pinky when programming?
that seems quite tiring
 
@randomra Heh, nope. I've never really thought of how I type those, actually.
[] and {} with my middle and ring finger of my right hand.
 
My typing speed will increase dramatically once a decent brain-computer interface is invented.
 
+ and = with my right middle finger
; with right pinky of course (no hand movement required)
'" also with right pinky (shift of a single key, not too hard).
 
2:22 AM
The placement of the ; key always seemed stupid, but makes some sense in the context of programming.
 
good to know that for programmers touch-type is not THAT far from the hunt&peck approach
(caps to backspace is a great modification)
 
@PhiNotPi Why? It should be easy to reach; it's a common punctuation mark.
 
or caps to anything really
 
@randomra Caps to backspace? I have caps mapped to Ctrl.
 
Colemak layout uses caps2backspace too
 
2:25 AM
Caps Lock to End?
 
That seems... odd.
 
left side end would take forever to get used to
 
I only use right shift. Never left shift.
 
I use End a lot less than Caps Lock, even.
 
Oh, TheBestOne is now @TeethBones?
@PhiNotPi In what scenario would you possibly need caps lock?
 
2:27 AM
@Doorknob Temporarily.
@Doorknob Graphing calculator.
 
There's also the SysReq button.
 
HE LIKES TO CHAT LIKE THIS
 
Most intentional presses of it are to disable it after unintentionally pressing it.
 
@PhiNotPi Oh yeah, there's another uncommon one. (It's the same key as Home on my laptop though. And it's nice to be there so I'm assured that when all else fails, I can always REISUB :P)
 
This is how I wish my keyboard were arranged:
 
2:32 AM
That's Dvorak, right?
 
Yes.
 
Why wish? Just learn it ;)
 
But then all of my muscle memory will get screwed up.
 
Yeah, that's why I'm still with QWERTY too. (Also because that would completely mess up my workflow on other computers.)
 
I've read up on layouts and I think it worth to change for almost noone
 
2:35 AM
Qwerty was optimized for typewriters, but the standard is so entrenched that it's never going to change.
 
and somehow it's not slower than any other layout
which is quite weird but that's the case
what I don't get: why do we hold down modifier keys while pressing the other key? why it doesn't work like the "sticky keys" feature in windows? what's the upside of the current method?
 
If it's true that the arrangement doesn't make a difference in speed, we should have just done it alphabetically.
 
@PhiNotPi not, because typewriters
 
@randomra If you'd like, you could type capital letters with only caps lock. Then you'll see why. :)
 
@Doorknob not toggle on/off, but with auto toggle-off
I type with sticky keys enabled btw
 
2:41 AM
@randomra I don't know, press-press-release-release seems a bit faster to me than press-release-press-release.
Probably because the last two releases can be done simultaneously.
 
do you type every word as digraphs?
so if I miss ctrl-C, and becomes ctrl, C it acts the same
and it's more comfortable that I don't ever have to press combinations
of course I often press them simultaneously just like when you type words
 
Hmm. I guess that would make sense.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:44 AM
Good night.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:57 AM
If I (or my kid, or dog, etc) hit Ctrl and don't realize it, there's nothing to indicate that I did, and it would stay sticky until the next key is pressed. The next key I press may not have the intended effect. If I have to hold down modifier keys, that's not an issue.
And on that note, bed.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

user23013Currently this is just an idea. I don't know how to check if an answer is complete, so I'm not sure about the winning criterion. Make a Pi Game Solver There is already a question to solve the 24 game, where your program should find a way to get 24 using 4 given integers and addition, subtractio...

 
6:46 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies Have you tried running the mixed tab/space code?
I don't think Python 3 lets you do that, but I'm not sure if it's just my computer
 
Ah, well it works in Python 2
but not 3
 
Yeah I should probably add a note why I'm using Py 3
 
7:05 AM
an answer which says dont run it
My Pyth answer - asdhakjdhakjsdhkajsdhkajsdakjdh1j2h3k1jhaskdja . Don't run it
lots of joining in there ..
 
8:02 AM
@Optimizer If you want to run it, be my guest :D Just don't blame me for anything!
 
 
2 hours later…
9:56 AM
@Sp3000 same for my Pyth code :P
 
@PhiNotPi I changed from QWERTZ (German) to QWERTY last summer. It's not as crazy as switching to dvorak, because most of the letters are on the same key, but the symbols are almost completely different... it actually didn't take too long to adapt.
 
I use an ASDF keyboard
 
I use Neo 2.0. It's a keyboard optimized for German.
 
whoa
is the symbol placement anything like QWERTZ or QWERTY?
 
image not found
 
10:07 AM
@xnor "So is looking up a method or operator by the string used for it..." I'm not really sure what is allowed then? Are we allowed to use the built-in operators at all? If not you should just say so.
 
It also quite nice for programming.
 
@user38034 ah, that's good... that was the main reason I switched to QWERTY
brackets, braces, carets and backticks are a pain on QWERTZ
 
It has a layer for special characters.
 
again image not found
 
@Optimizer no repro
 
10:13 AM
 
now works
 
@Jakube is that all on alt gr?
 
whats with the color ?
 
lol wut
 
No, it's on the Mod3 key.
 
10:14 AM
@Optimizer indication of the finger used when touch typing
 
whoah. totally wrong.
some of the indigos and lemon yellows are swapped
 
O.k. That the important layer.
 
that aside, hey, I didn't know you're German :D
 
Not quite. The country below, Austria.
 
ah right
well I didn't know you're Austrian either ;)
 
11:02 AM
pebble time 16M
 
0
Q: Tips for Regex Golf

Martin BüttnerSimilar to our threads for language-specific golfing tips: what are general tricks to shorten regular expressions? I can see three uses of regex when it comes to golfing: classic regex golf ("here is a list that should match, and here is a list that should fail"), using regex to solve computati...

@Sp3000 ^ finally remembered to post that
 
Huzzah
 
ok, next up is mine - tips for vim keystrokes golf
 
@Optimizer heh, if you post that you'd be such a hypocrite :D
 
I am just joining the group. As the famous saying goes ..
 
11:23 AM
its becoming more of a tutorial for regex programming :D
 
grc
random question: would 'printing' the empty string in perl count as outputting a falsey value?
 
@grc is the empty string falsy?
 
grc
yep
 
then yes
 
grc
awesome :D
what about not printing it?
 
11:26 AM
that sounds like a rather philosophical question :D
I'd probably accept it, since it's functionally equivalent
 
I want to do overlapping matches (i.e. lookaheads) but that's definitely regex tutorial material :/ hmm
 
I'll probably write one about avoiding named groups later. It's another one that's obvious in general, but for instance I was quite surprised that you can use unnamed groups for balancing in .NET, so I'll probably use that as an example.
 
11:42 AM
"use RETINA" as a tip ?
 
sounds like a plug :D ... it also doesn't really help with golfing, it's just a way to actually use regex in a way that's compliant with PPCG standards
 
it shaves off at least 4 bytes
 
what for?
 
perl regex usage vs retina .
 
I don't see where those 4 bytes are coming from
 
11:52 AM
what is the shortest way in perl to use regex ?
vs retina
 
I don't perl
if you're referring to delimiters, I don't count those anyway
 
no.
like a function in perl s->.. something something
 
if I'm writing a regex-only submission, I only count the regex, not how it's invoked
 
you do ..
 
for a normal regex golf challenge, the boilerplate code is never counted
 
11:54 AM
Sometimes it's not only regexes though, like the syllable challenge
 
I guess it makes sense as a sort of "if you want to write a regex-only submission for a non-regex golf challenge..." tip
 
(which is a lot shorter in Retina...)
 
but I'm not gonna post it
@Sp3000 btw, lua has a whole bunch of character classes
 
Yeah, I wasn't sure whether to list for each flavour
 
11:58 AM
I kinda just thought the common ones would suffice, but I guess I'll add a comment
Thanks
 
@MartinBüttner oh, I am talking about just normal code-golf, not specifically regex-golf
@MartinBüttner this
"dont overboard and use normal non-regex based solutions when required" is a valid tip ? :P
 
@Optimizer feel free to post it, if I do it just looks like a plug ;)
I guess compared to .NET, it also saves bytes on modifiers
in .NET you only have inline modifiers which cost 3+n bytes (where n is the number of modifiers), whereas retina only needs 1+n
(or even just n, if you're in some non-standard mode anyway)
 
12:17 PM
I am not posting it . I was suggesting you
is "use mix of regex and loop, as in double regex instead of one long back referencing one" an on-topic tip ?
like when dealing with 2D patterns
 
12:36 PM
@Optimizer yes
in the category "small regular expressions used as parts of larger golfed code"
@Sp3000 ah nice, I wanted to post that tip, too :D
 
whistles
Sorry for taking it then :/
 
added a few details ;)
 
Should have just let you post it if I knew you were going to :P
(didn't realise the exception with Ecmascript, for example)
Ahaha you put in [][], nice
 
you might want to add that "first" (for ]) can also mean after an initial ^
 
Yeah will do
Also I think backslash does need escaping in a character class
 
12:47 PM
oh right
gotta head out
later, guys
 
You know, I like the look of [][^-]
It almost looks like the second part matches anything not a -
 
1:34 PM
Stack Exchange won't let me change my name back until April 3rd.
 
@TeethBones Yea, there's a 30-day thing ;)
 
How did Big toes did ?
 
This guy? He's still around.
 
so chat name is a separate thing ?
 
You can set a separate name for each site. I only changed mine for PPCG, not others. You can set which is your main "chat" profile.
 
1:49 PM
ah ok
 
Someone in here told me about a workaround to the 30-day limit, but it didn't work. So while I'm stuck as Bigtoes on PPCG for 30 days, I can still be Geobits in chat :)
 
You'll still remain Big Toes in our minds :P
2
 
2:05 PM
Not mine
Bigtoes is someone else. An imposter
 
I would have changed my name on a SE site I never use and set that as my chat profile.
 
Sure, but I was misinformed. Apparently you can't change it back using another site and the "edit on entire network" to get around the timer. Now that I know, I'll do it that way in the future.
 
Git Boes
Bogiest
 
Bogiest... I like it.
 
2:22 PM
Is there a regex that matches pronounceable words?
 
is there a word you cannot pronounce ?
 
Define pronounceable
 
Htyfjvutstecyecutryjv is not suitably pronouceable.
 
I tried to use some abstract classes and inheritances in C++ and boy was that a mistake
Only now I find out it's impossible to make an STL container of an abstract class
 
I think a regex for "pronounceable" would have too many edge cases to consider. You might be able to do a good heuristic, but I'm sure it won't capture everything unless it's literally a dictionary of exceptions.
English, that is. Some other languages are much more logical :)
 
2:28 PM
Wait a second. If it's not in the dictionary, it isn't a word, right?
And everything in the dictionary is pronounceable
So just concat all the words together and boom, there's your regex
 
That depends on who you ask... is language defined by the dictionary, or the other way around?
 
That's so profound
 
@PhiNotPi and its not a word too
that's just a string of random characters
 
@Geobits If you take that stance then the answer is no, a regex that evolves cannot exist.
Tomorrow, a non word could become a word and it would have to be covered. Today, the regex would cover a non word. We'll either be wrong today or we'll be wrong tomorrow.
 
"Word" being defined as a string of letters, without the requirement that the word appear in a dictionary.
 
2:31 PM
If looking for "pronounceable" it might be easier than "pronounceable words", but it still has problems because most languages are stupid.
 
@PhiNotPi .*
 
Well if you define word to include non words after we already spent five minutes discussing this thing... I give up
I define word to be "a". My regex is "a". Problem solved.
 
@Rainbolt I already gave him what he wants.
 
The funny thing about defining my word to be "a" is that suddenly this sentence becomes gibberish.
 
Huh? I don't understand you.
 
2:34 PM
I'll define words to be "The funny thing about defining my word to be "a" is that suddenly this sentence becomes gibberish. (I'll define words problem solved)"
problem solved
 
Well, this hasn't exactly been helpful.
 
I asked you to define "pronounceable" and you totally blew me off.
 
Sure it has! I think the general feeling is that 1) Anything is pronounceable 2) Nothing is pronounceable, or C) It depends on what you mean.
 
Or D) Both 1 and 2
Quantum phonetics
The very act of pronouncing it changes its state
 
Makes sense. Observe it pronounced once and it remains pronounceable. Until then we don't know.
 
2:39 PM
I would say that, I could make a list of the most common consonant groups and most common vowel groups, and define a pronouncable word to be a word that alternates between them.
 
There's a thought experiment called Schrödinger's Vowel that explains it better
 
@PhiNotPi Like I said earlier, I think you probably could do a decent heuristic, but if you want something definitive it's going to be hard, if not impossible.
How does nth fit that, for example?
 
I was just going to try to make a list of all reasonable Geobits nicknames.
Nothing too important.
 
There's a start :)
Egobits is nice, if simple.
 
@Geobits I like the fact that although the words are hidden unless you answer a survey question, highlighting them shows the length of the individual words, like hangman
 
2:45 PM
Noooo you found my secret weapon :(
2
Who does tricho have to answer a survey? I never did
 
Maybe only certain names are being a survey wall
 
@trichoplax The survey thing must be blocked for me. I've had that site bookmarked for years and never seen it.
 
Change of subject: if I make Core War a completely deterministic KOTH, could I enable anybody to update the leaderboard?
 
@PhiNotPi Is it dependent on timeouts (time per turn, etc)? If so, it may run differently on different hardware.
 
@Geobits It shows me the first 7 or 39, ending with Big Toes...
 
2:48 PM
@trichoplax Yea, I think my ad-blocker is working the way it's supposed to then :D
 
I'm surprised the ad blocker lets you view all 39, rather than just hiding the survey request. Does that get you around paywalls as well???
 
@Geobits If it's completely deterministic, then it does not depend on anything variable. Isn't that the point of being deterministic?
 
Core War is self-contained, it reads in the player source files and executes each (simple) command. No processes are spawned or anything like that.
 
I think you have adware @tricho
Check your add ons for your browser
 
@trichoplax No, not around paywalls. If it's not the adblocker then I don't know.
 
2:50 PM
I don't have an ad blocker, and I have never gotten a survey from that site
Been using it for a few days now
I just have plain Chrome
 
@Rainbolt I'm using Firefox and no add ons have permission to run without asking me first (not even Flash)
 
Maybe it's geo-ip based and it only shows to certain demographics?
 
The survey is marked "Google" at the bottom and says "or skip and be asked again next time"
@Geobits It is asking me which UK political party I will vote for so you may be right
 
That sounds pretty fishy either way.
 
Why would Google bother you with ads on a Firefox browser?
 
2:54 PM
Martin's in the UK, maybe ask if he gets it when he's around?
 
Right click, inspect element, and see if you can find a css class name
Then I can right click, inspect element, and see if I can find it hidden on mine
I found three scripts from survey.g.doubleclick.net on the page
Here's the first one: survey.g.doubleclick.net/… (just source code)
 
I hate booleans named noSurvey or similar. Then you have to do !noSurvey... Why not just call it hasSurvey or showSurvey or something and reverse the logic?
 
I hate negative booleans as well
Also, my team leader says BOO-leens like a real Texan.
 
How could I get a data type named after me?
 
Depends. What's your last name?
 
3:07 PM
@Rainbolt yes I see those now - thanks. I don't understand why you don't get the survey without an ad blocker. I don't have Chrome but the survey shows on Firefox and internet explorer 11.
A data type named PhiNotPi? Wouldn't that be confusing?
3
 
Oh, I get the survey in IE. Weird. Chrome doesn't show it even with all my addons turned off.
 
I'm going to stop thinking about the survey now. It doesn't cause me any problems and I no longer think my computer is infected
 
I like how you can just "View source..." and get the whole list, though :P
 
@Geobits Thanks - that seems to explain it then (despite it being a weird approach by Google)
 
Sorry for the scare. Better safe than sorry right?
 
3:11 PM
@Rainbolt Most definitely :) Better scared than dead
 
That must be a serious survey if you were scared for your life.
Mine was about phone chargers :)
 
I haven't seen the statistics on number of deaths per year attributed to adware, but I don't want to assume it's zero...
 
@trichoplax Surely it can't be any more confusing than half the stuff already in programming languages today.
 
True :)
I don't mean to go on, but the first anagram that shows up for me is Chat Prolix
It's funny because it's true
 
@Geobits I somehow changed my name for all accounts :( Looks like I'm stuck with this for some time.
 
3:26 PM
¯\(°_o)/¯
 
The anagram site seems to give incomplete results. Individual words do not appear in all positions (for example, looking up Teeth Bones returns "Best The One" but not "The Best One")
 
"Tin Hippo"
 
But not "Hippo Tin". Apparently just one ordering of each set of words
 
It looks like each phrase is alphabetically sorted as well.
My results page had "Hippo Tin" but not "Tin Hippo"
 
Mine seem to be in arbitrary order
 
3:31 PM
Okay, it's not alphabetical.
 
Mine does seem to be in the same order as yours though. No idea what the logic is
There's Jakube - with a name with no known anagrams...
 
In advanced options, you can change the language to "English with obscure words". Then Jakube produces 7 hits.
But I have no idea what they mean. :P
 
lol
 
Well zgarb isn't much better... I guess bragz is about the best you can do with it.
or grabz
 
emu serf
Feersum
 
4:02 PM
hi, I came to do some audits
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

IsziBuffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo I'm not sure how or if this can even work in any language, but I figured I'd toss the idea up here for someone else to flesh out in case it's actually viable. "Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo" is a g...

 
auditsu?
 
Unary will be the best at that one.
 
no, only one "u"
 
4:47 PM
The transcript is bothering me. "You'll still remain Big Toes in our minds". I feel this weird wriggling sensation in the back of my brain.
 
@Rainbolt is it a parasite?
 
I don't know
I think it's wearing a fedora
 
It's the old noodle
I just realized the sandbox has 403 answers.
 
If you count old deleted ones it has 901.
 
if you count other meta questions too, it has over 2000
 
4:54 PM
I was able to change my name back.
 
How?
 
Magic?
Create a new account?
 
Magic?
 
Create account on Programmers.SE. Change chat profile to use that account.
It changed my PPCG name back too.
 
Weird. I did the same (at Physics), but it didn't change my PPCG name.
 
5:06 PM
That's all you need
It's Magic
 
I don't have any Islands :(
 
Does this show up in source form for anyone else? chat.stackexchange.com/feeds/rooms/starred/240
 
Yes, for me it does
 
not for me.
I think you need firefox ?
 
To Meta!
 
5:16 PM
and beyond ?
 
I'm not sure where you'd go with it beyond meta, but okay.
 
so nobody gets the context of my jokes :(
 
1
Q: User Feed page in Google Chrome

Tech JerkThe "user feed" page is not rendering properly in Google Chrome (V 3.0.195.25). It looks like a text file with all the html tags and contents.

 
@Optimizer Oh I got the joke... ;)
 
tell then :P
 
5:19 PM
Why? Pixar already did.
 
Beyond meta, you go to Chrome's support site. Obviously.
 
That meta post has a comment that says it worked in Chrome 13. Yay Google ><
 
Chrome has credits. {:v)
{:v{ >
 
so ?
 
5:31 PM
Old man winking: (;v{ >
 
 
2 hours later…
7:01 PM
@Zgarb Wow. Connector's doing really good now.
 
Well, apart from Funnelweb it's the only bot that's actively trying to construct a path. :P
Just poking my head here, going now. ->
 
I'm torn about the size change. I decided on my strategy because the size was just right for a single alternating horizontal line. Not that I expect to win with it, but now it has unnecessary overlaps and oddities caused by the change.
I mean sure, nobody was scoring before, but even with the change there are only scores on 4% of matches. IMO it would just be better to hope for more "active" bots to jump in than to change it midway.
 
7:58 PM
1
Q: Byte count for current file in Visual Studio 2013

Thomas W.Is there a Visual Studio 2013 extension that displays the size of the current file in bytes and/or characters? It should update while typing, not only when saving.

 
wow, we now have off topic questions on meta too
what do people think of this site ? :D
and it had an upvote too
 
8:15 PM
Interesting. Left joins in SQL Server don't even execute if you don't select anything from the left join.
SELECT Col1 FROM Table1 LEFT JOIN Table2 ON Table1.KeyCol = Table2.ForeignKeyCol the part in bold never even runs
 
8:27 PM
I've never seen something so suited to a pop contest: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/47433/18487
 
@Rainbolt it's pretty good
I do like my Vigil answer though ;)
 
8:48 PM
@MartinBüttner Where is your Vigil answer?
Are you cross-plugging?
 
lol yeah, not on that challenge. I was referring to my topvoted answers... I thought it was pretty good popcon material, too ;)
 
my top voted popcon is where cjam wears glasses.
deal with it
 
that being said, the best popcon material of all answers on this site was actually posted on a code golf
 
it just got 2 more upvotes -_-
 
00:00 - 21:0021:00 - 00:00

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