The Nineteenth Byte

12:19 AM

0

Compile source code into English This is an idea I had that would make for an interesting personal project, and I figured that it couldn't hurt to see what could be done with it as a contest. Any feedback would be great! A compiler is typically a program that converts a program written in o...

xnor

2:41 AM

@COTO Regarding programming being required, I draw a higher line that "programming is the challenge" rather than it just being a medium. I might as well link my existing meta answer: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/1962/20260

I guess my question is: what do you envision an interesting answer to your challenge being?

COTO

@xnor There used to be a "POVRay" contest online where programmers were invited to create the most stunning 3D scenes they could (in POVRay) in 512 characters or less. The results were asounding and the code was beautiful. I couldn't have fathomed some of the things that came out of that contest.

xnor

so i agree that if people made interesting comics with algorithms, that would be a good use of coding

people seemed to do that with the mathematical art question (though i'm not sure i approve of it still)

COTO

In this case, I'm hoping to see the creative ways people come up with rendering people, textures, borders, text blurbs, etc., programmatically.

xnor

i'm not getting that from your scoring

the crucial part being "programmatically"

i understand the char restriction forces efficiency

COTO

Can you draw just a stick figure, or can you draw Calvin hugging Hobbes in front of an oak tree, with texture, and having both recognizable--in a tiny fraction of the code that would reasonably be necessary to render such a thing unencumbered.

xnor

2:48 AM

but could easily imagine a stick figure with a speech-circle telling a funny joke (forced in with lots of text compression) getting loads of upvotes and winning

COTO

There might be some of that. I suppose I can take out "funny" as one of the recommended reasons for upvoting.

xnor

@Calvin'sHobbies Did you have a psychic sense that calvin and hobbes was mentioned :-P

@COTO That would help, I think

COTO

Frankly, even coming up with a decent stick figure comic in 512 characters is bound to be a challenge.

xnor

actually, the whole comic thing

look at XKCD or dinosaur comics

lots of people find them hilarious though the art is simple

i think what you want is clever rendering

Calvin's Hobbies

Apparently...

xnor

2:50 AM

and asking for clever rendering directly is more likely to produce what you want

COTO

Well I'll reword with an emphasis on artistry then.

Give me a few minutes.

xnor

i know you have a subjective judgment or what's good, but that won't stop the legions of HNQ from upvoting simply on the work "comic" in the title

COTO

There's zero upvotes so far. And I proposed the challenge precisely because the last few challenges I've posted have had tougher-than-usual criteria and tanked. People here clearly, clearly want simple, open challenges where they can program creatively and/or non-competitively if they want to. Where the winning criterion is open.

xnor

@COTO, don't know about clearly, it's a perennial source of discussion and close votes

at least there are definitely answerers that enjoy answering them

COTO

I was aware of the art meta discussion before, but I did a good faith search for existing challenges, determined that mine was within reason and suitably novel. I also thought to myself "If not PPCG, where on Earth could a competition like this take place?", which is a relevant question.

If you posted this on an art board somewhere, you'd get laughed out the door in a matter of seconds.

xnor

2:59 AM

unfortunately, i think that's true for pretty much every closed question

except the ones that are clearly programming questions for stack overflow

the community doesn't think they belong on PPCG, but there's no similar place for any similar kind of question

COTO

So why all the angst against programming questions that involve art? I get the "posting pictures of a cat" (i.e. completely unrelated to programming) angle in the meta discussion, but this attitude that "programming may not be used to produce art" bewilders me.

xnor

githubphagocyte has a good response to the meta question pointing out that the amount of art should not be a reason to close, but rather the amount of programming

and i agree

but i still have concerns that answers to such questions are basically judged on the art and creativity of the output

and not on the code that produced them

COTO

Well, as I say, the fact that nobody who isn't an expert programmer can participate in this challenge is sufficient for me to conclude that it involves programming.

And since the quality of the art is entirely predicated on the entrants' ability to squeeze out graphics from a tiny bit of code, it seems like a reasonable challenge.

At any rate, we shall see what the community thinks.

If it's closed, I'll accept that. I definitely don't agree with it, but I'll accept it.

xnor

i'm generally not a fan of questions where coding is simply the medium to produce results, like KOTHs where the code just gives your move in a prisoner's dilemma type game

but such KOTHs are popular and seem to be accepted by the community

so perhaps i'm in a minority

i'm not voting to close the question, but if i had to guess, i'd put the higher odds on it being closed

please do post more on the meta threads on these topics

COTO

My personal criterion would be: could somebody who isn't a competent programmer take part in this competition?

And thanks for the heads-up.

I won't start any new meta topics on the discussion.

xnor

3:06 AM

there's existing ones that i think are in want of more discussion

COTO

BTW, I've reworded with an emphasis on artistry, including some specifics.

xnor

i think those changes help

why comic though?

why not just art?

i think "comic" has a strong pull towards humor and minimality that is liable to make upvotes not for art

COTO

Because "art" to me implies something far more broad, and I'm genuinely more interested in comic-book style art. Maybe I could change it to "graphic novel", if you think that would improve the quality of the answers.

xnor

there are of course, artistically rich comics, but that's not what i think of when i see the word

i like graphic novel but i think it implies something too long

COTO

How about including "Artistically Rich" in the title?

xnor

3:09 AM

++

half of HNQ will only read the tile :-)

COTO

What is HNQ?

xnor

hot network questions

stackexchange.com/questions

COTO

Ah. So "the hoi polloi".

xnor

it's a blessing and a curse

when questions from PPCG appear there, they get lots more viewers

and answers and upvotes

but often ones not in the spirit of our site

exactly

for better or worse, popularity contests tend to attract them

COTO

Well, if we get a spate of neat 512-byte artwork, I'd consider that a boon.

xnor

3:11 AM

and their subjectivity is often quite different from site regulars

COTO

I'll add "artistically rich" to the title.

brb

xnor

unrelatedly, sorry your Java satire got deleted

it looks like that took a crazy amount of work to make

and i thought it was witty and hilarious

COTO

Thanks. It did take a while. And it took 270 rep with it when it went. But Doorknob explained why satire is taboo and I got over it.

I've added "artistically rich" to the problem title, and "This is a competition about artistically rich comic book (or graphic novel) style artwork. Humour is a nice touch, but should not be used as a principle criterion for judging entries." to the scoring description.

xnor

great, i think that gets to the heart of it

COTO

Thanks for the input.

xnor

3:17 AM

good luck!

COTO

Late here. I'm off for the night.

xnor

and good night

COTO

Thanks. And cheers. :)

New Sandboxed Posts

4:54 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Mondrian painting description langage This challenge consists in coding an interpreter for a Mondrian painting description language (MPDL). Language definition The language operates on a stack of rectangles. A rectangle is defined by its upper left coordinate, lower right coordinate and color....

Quincunx

6:12 AM

Just found this, I can't stop laughing, thought I might share it:

Transcript for