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12:29 AM
@MartinBüttner Oh thanks. Wow I don't think I would have ever been able to guess that's how you execute script files...
 
 
4 hours later…
4:13 AM
Got my controller "working" :D
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

GeobitsCodémon, I choose you! king-of-the-hillgame Your kindly neighbour, Doctor Tree, just gave you three magical creatures called Codémon. There's a battle tournament in the nearby town of Colorville. Are you the very best, like no one ever was? Overview This is a battle tournament. Each playe...

4
 
 
6 hours later…
10:09 AM
@Geobits wow, that's quite a read
@Optimizer you put the programs in the wrong order
and Collatz gives the wrong output for input 1
 
10:26 AM
@MartinBüttner oh. 1 should just print 1, is it ?
 
yep
but nice how you're already getting upvotes :P
 
upvote*
 
10:42 AM
the snippet is auto closing for me.
anyone else seeing that ?
 
happened to me once
 
happening to me every 10 seconds or so
 
since you've got the same twin primes program now, I hope you don't mind if I copy back a character from yours :P
 
sure
collabz programming :P
 
wait, yours isn't currently working
it's missing the !
as is mine, for some reason
 
10:51 AM
Wow, you two :P
 
:D
so what is your score now ?
 
11:09 AM
ok fixed.
 
11:40 AM
@feersum is there any way to run that TECO code without downloading and installing TECO?
What we need for these Levenshtein distance challenges is a snippet that actually visualises which characters were removed, added, substituted and which remain
@Geobits In the "Stats" section, I think it's clearer if you only said that you've got 80 points to distribute, because you're already saying that 50 points in each stat is the baseline. Mentioning the 230 seems unnecessary, because you can't decide what to do with 150 of them anyway.
 
12:03 PM
@Geobits at the end of the battle section where you show how damage is calculated and what the maximum is, you might want to mention that this is all ignoring effects
and Poison seems pretty overpowered, unless you expect rounds not to normally last more than 3 turns against a single monster anyway.
you should also mention if inactive monsters can wake up and take poison/burn damage (unless that's somewhere in the protocol section, I didn't read that)
 
12:27 PM
if you suddenly have a GB less space on your hard drive, what's the quickest way to find out where that GB is/what program it came from? (on Windows)
 
Are you using virtual memory?
 
I think so, but afaik the page file is allocated to maximum size anyway (to reserve the necessary space)... but that might not be true
@aditsu feature request... make er work with individual characters
(or single numbers for that matter... like, anything, that's not an ArrayList should be implicitly wrapped in one)
 
12:47 PM
@MartinBüttner There's programs like Disk Space Fan that analyse the sizes of all folders/files, if that helps
 
well, I've got WinDirStat, which is pretty awesome for that
 
Although sometimes I wonder if there's a better alternative...
Oh? Might take a look at that (I have this problem myself)
 
but I then I'd still have to check which of the 95 GB on my hard drive is the new one... which is especially tough if it's loads of small files (like Mathematica recently, which downloaded loads of small databases when I used the CountryData functions for Showcase your language... I discovered that only be accident)
 
Did you use any programs which cache things? Every time I edit a video in Adobe Premiere I lose 3GB
(also these pacman on WinDirStat are kinda cute)
 
1:01 PM
(haha yeah)
@Sp3000 not that I'm aware of
ugh, that moment when you restructure large parts of a golfed submission and it ends up with the exact same byte count
 
104 base encoded
 
That moment when you try to golf something but there's no way it'll ever beat CJam :P
 
Pyth
 
ah nice, now I did manage to shave off another 4 thanks to that restructuring
 
1:24 PM
Hmm I wonder when languages draw the line for having too many builtins
I mean having an inbuilt prime function seems pretty common, and nobody seems to have a problem with that
 
Sunrise
 
Hah, maybe I should have specified I meant golfing languages
 
;)
I don't know, it's hard to say
as long as you don't have a magic character that represents the program's source code as a string, you're good ;)
 
Well I took the auto-quote-pushing out of Golfish because I thought it'd be no fun :P
 
I mean, there's not even really a point of cluttering language with too specific built-ins, because it's really unlikely exactly that comes up as a question. but I think all sorts of mathematical and combinatorial functions are fair game
 
1:30 PM
CJam 3.0: etd: Push day, etm: Push month, ety: Push year, etfPop three nums and output date according to ISO 8601 :P
 
lol
J precedence rules are funny. what is -2-3?
 
I don't think the - there does what I think it does
 
+1?
 
@Sp3000 it does... as a monadic function it's negation and as a dyadic function it's subtraction
@trichoplax yes
 
I just guessed the more counterintuitive thing lol
So negation applies to the whole expression that follows?
 
1:37 PM
I thought _ was negation...
 
@Sp3000 that's for literals
 
Ah.
 
monadic - is actually a negation function
 
What's the negation of a literal??
 
well a negative number literal
 
1:38 PM
Oh only for number literals
 
so -3 as a literal is instead written as _3
 
From memory I think J reads right to left, so that's probably why
 
I may have misunderstood the meaning of "literal"
 
as for my above example. basically there are no precedence rules based on the individual operators... instead everything is right-associative. which makes numerical expressions look funny ^^
 
So you can't have -'frog'
 
1:39 PM
|domain error
|       -'frog'
ninja'd
 
:P
 
Wow there's an interpreter built into chat
 
hi all
 
ummmm... how do I exit the J console on Windows? it seems to ignore, exit or Ctrl+C
 
1:42 PM
I was thinking of setting my kmer challenge simply limiting the total RAM using ulimit from the command line
it makes life a lot simpler for answerers
and I fear no answers like my snake challenge if it is too hard
is this a REALLY bad idea?
 
@MartinBüttner Ctrl+D maybe? Not sure
 
The limit will be > 1GB so the size of any interpreter shouldn't make toooo much difference hopefully
 
@Sp3000 just tried that... didn't do anything
 
but it will mean python users will have to be careful what they do
 
@Lembik sounds good
 
1:44 PM
@MartinBüttner thanks!
 
although the fixed array plus x integers is certainly fairer :P
 
@MartinBüttner it is fairer! I am just fearful of it putting people off
if someone answered my snake challenge I might have more confidence :)
 
if you give them 10 integer variables that seems more than enough to not make it cumbersome
but in the end it's your call
 
@MartinBüttner Just tried hitting Ctrl+D then Enter and it seemed to work for me
 
oh enter... I'd given up before that and just shut down the shell :D
 
1:49 PM
Yeah, I had to experiment a bit :P
 
@MartinBüttner the thing is that it's slightly artificial as well.. python uses lots of bytes to represent an integer
@MartinBüttner unless you make a special effort
@MartinBüttner so you end up with an unrealistic scoring system
 
why? it's the most language-agnostic you can get. it doesn't matter how many bytes the language uses to represent the integer, as long as you only store 32 bits of information in it.
 
@MartinBüttner you end up counting an internal feature of the code. So it becomes a theoretical analysis of an algorithm rather than a real coding challenge
@MartinBüttner and this time I wanted a coding challenge :)
(I alternate :) )
 
@Lembik exactly :P
@Lembik ah I see
well then the suggestion never made sense in the first place
 
@MartinBüttner well it sort of did... If I could remove the RAM overhead of the interpreter that would seem fair
 
1:54 PM
yeah but that wasn't the only purpose of my approach ;)
@Lembik the best thing you could do for that is have the program report when it's started up, and subtract the memory usage at that point from the overall memory usage... but this will still be weird, because the interpreter might already allocate some memory it knows it'll need later
 
@MartinBüttner Hey Martin, how many bytes is Collatz golfed normally?
In CJam
 
I couldn't get below 25. Optimizer managed 24.
 
So you guys didn't lengthen one of the programs to get a better edit distance?
 
@MartinBüttner good points all round
 
@Sp3000 we lengthened the twin primes
 
2:06 PM
Ah k :o hmmm interesting
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

randomraImplementing a joke language This is more of an idea than a question. If it makes some sense I will work out the details. You should write a program that can implement/run the following language (let's call it Patience). A Patience code has the form: [input]>[output](,[input]>[output])* i.e. p...

 
grc
J does not handle infinite loops well :(
 
I just got 23 for Collatz on Golfish by doing 3x/((3x%2)*5+1)+(3x%2), essentially :/
Not sure if that helps CJam at all (doubt it)
 
interesting
3*_2%_!5*)+/
 
2:21 PM
Woops the first denominator should be (1-(3x%2))*5+1
 
Needs to be 6 for even, 1 for odd
But CJam has a ! anyway
 
yep
wait, is that 3(x%2) or (3x)%2?
 
(3x)%2
3*_2%_@@!5*)/+ maybe?
 
grc
aw, I can't even find a modulo operator in J
 
2:24 PM
@grc |
but it takes the divisor first
 
grc
ah thanks
it's called residue apparently
 
@Sp3000 hm l~2*{3*_2%_!5*)@\/\+_p_(}g;
oh yeah, yours works too
 
Hmm 27, damn :/
So much rotating
 
in Golfish?
with your expression it's 26 in CJam
 
I mean CJam :P
 
2:30 PM
alternatively l~2*{3*_2%\1$!5*)/+_p_(}g;
 
Is there no way around that initial 2*? D:
I noticed you both had it in your current programs
Oh, it's for the 1 case, I see
 
yeah
there's no while loop yet
 
Oh, only do-while I see
 
3:16 PM
@Martin Yea, I think 80 is clearer. Clened up that and the battle formula issue you mentioned.
@Martin Also, I was wondering about poison. I really only expect most battles to last 3-5 turns, so it shouldn't be too bad.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "inactive wake up and take burn/poison damage". If you're asking if inactive monsters take damage, then no (updated that).
 
@MartinBüttner that should be easy enough :)
still learning chat features :p is there a /me ?
 
/me doesn't think so
 
btw @MartinBüttner what bothered you the most about my website? the design, the content or something else?
 
everything ?
@aditsu no /me but this seems to simulate /me
 
"I really only expect most battles to last 3-5 turns, so it shouldn't be too bad." <-- translate that to "on-on-one, ignoring switching".
 
3:32 PM
@Optimizer 1) that's not very helpful, 2) that's just italic
 
in most of the IRC chat clients, /me text appears simply as italics with different color
wants to you to see this
 
I thought the point of /me was to make the user name part of the phrase
 
Optimizer wants to you to see this
 
That just seems like an argument for short, easy to type names. Why not just type it yourself?
 
@aditsu You might be interested in this userscript: meta.stackexchange.com/a/63413/229438
 
3:35 PM
@Optimizer oh that shows what I mean ---^
 
@aditsu its almost equivalent.
 
@ProgramFOX if I understand correctly, that will make /me work for users of that script, but it will still look like fail to others
 
That sounds perfect to me, since I won't be using it ;)
 
/me thinks this looks bad like this
 
Lab Rats is getting quite huge
 
3:41 PM
are*
 
is
 
are
 
@NathanMerrill I was going to run ColorScorePlayer today with java before and after the pull request ready to accept it. Do you have any opinion beforehand?
 
3:42 PM
Lab Rats is getting huge. My lab rats are getting huge.
 
I'll just check the score is reasonably similar then
What is you feeding them?
 
Other lab rats.
 
that are not right
 
@aditsu the background ;)
@Geobits can you switch monsters while the active one is asleep?
 
It are an perfectly healthy meal.
 
3:44 PM
@MartinBüttner have you seen pokemon ?
 
@Martin Yes, you still choose an action for sleeping monsters, and switching is possible.
 
@MartinBüttner ooh, well, it used to be darker and animated, with things moving in 2 different directions :)
 
Moves will only take place if you wake up, though.
 
@Geobits is it following the spec of the pokemon DS games ?
 
@NathanMerrill it's been getting fairly quiet over the past few days
@Geobits okay, then the question remains if inactive monsters have a chance of waking up each turn ;)
 
3:45 PM
@Optimizer It's "inspired by" Pokemon. There are quite a few differences, but much the same.
 
still. 23 answers
 
@Geobits Does the random chance of waking up still keep being applied each move after the sleeping fighter has been swapped out?
 
@Optimizer yes (ages ago). why?
 
@Martin No, they don't. No effects change/stop/activate when inactive.
 
that site still has some pieces of the first html I ever wrote (around 1998) :p
 
3:46 PM
@MartinBüttner makes it easier to understand the question .
 
Inactive means literally inactive. They are not processed in any way.
So poisonTurns only increments when active, etc.
 
do we have wake up from sleep portions/flutes ?
 
No, there is nothing to heal status effects except ending the battle.
 
@Optimizer I do understand the question, but if it's not in the spec there's no reason to assume it's the same as in pokemon (especially since the spec can't assume everyone knows pokemon)
 
I'll try to improve the background, but I'm not abandoning Escher ^^
 
3:47 PM
@MartinBüttner chill, I was just making a statement.
 
If I could assume everyone knew pokemon, the spec would be a lot shorter :P
I tried to write it for those that don't know it, but it's hard to do that perfectly. I'm sure it's still missing some things that seem completely obvious to me.
 
@aditsu No; it will turn all messages starting with /me into IRC-style messages for you.
 
@Geobits It sounded pretty watertight to me, and I know nothing about pokemon that I didn't learn from xkcd
 
@Geobits possibly. but if the inactive thing is explicitly mentioned it looks pretty good to me
 
@ProgramFOX it's not good enough if it's just for me
 
3:50 PM
@trichoplax If you learned it from xkcd, what more could you possibly learn? ;)
 
@aditsu its just for /me and me
 
har har
 
@Geobits Was just thinking, I could easily replace "pokemon" with "life" in that sentence...
4
 
@aditsu It's not just for your own messages; it's for all messages starting with /me, so you get the same "feeling" as /me on IRC.
 
I said for me, not for my messages
 
3:53 PM
oh
 
speaking of xkcd... my girlfriend got me the What If book for my birthday... some of the new ones (that he didn't post online) are pretty good. e.g. "What would happen if you made a periodic table out of cube-shaped bricks, where each brick was made of the corresponding element?" ... which is in itself pretty funny, but it has this amazing paragraph: "There's no material safety data sheet for astatine. If there were, it would just be the word "NO" scrawled over and over in charred blood."
 
wow
 
"Chemists suspect that it has a black surface, but no one really knows."
 
well, I think the very first problem is making a hydrogen cube
 
Now that someone has the book, I can finally ask: What happens to the hover texts over the images when they are made into a book??
 
3:56 PM
he just lets the gas ones float away ^^
 
bah that's just lazy
 
@trichoplax unfortunately they are mostly missing, although some images have captions. most of the footnotes made it into the book though.
 
@MartinBüttner "Monsters are not "processed" when inactive. This means they take no burn/poison damage, poison counters won't accumulate, no wake from sleep, etc. No effects are removed or changed when switching. This isn't that other monster battling game. If you switch out with attack raised and burned, they'll still be there when you switch back in."
 
oh, was that already in there? sorry.
 
No, about to edit it in, making sure it's clear (which my question obviously wasn't).
 
3:58 PM
ah, okay
sounds good to me
 
I've gotten too used to python. I can't read nested quotation marks of the same type without experiencing distress
 
@trichoplax I think that's an issue with most programming languages :P
 
I was going to blockquote that to avoid nested quotes, but I can't ping with a blockquote :(
 
@MartinBüttner I was talking about reading Geobits' comment ;)
 
yeah I realise that... just saying it didn't seem very python-specific ^^
 
4:00 PM
Shows how few languages I have seen...
Can many languages use quotation marks within a quote?
 
Humans are genarally better parsers for things like that, so I thought you guys wouldn't mind too much. Well, the human ones at least.
 
@trichoplax unescaped? I doubt it
 
@Geobits I'm not a bot
 
VB.NET and C# verbatim strings double them to quote them though
 
That's what all bots say...
 
4:02 PM
like "this is a ""quote"" right here"
 
OK. In python you can say
a = "Something in 'quotes' without escaping"
 
Doesn't that actually make them single quotes, though?
 
yeah sure, I'd hope that always works
 
Or
a = 'Something in "quotes" without escaping'
You can choose your outer quote delimiter to allow the other to be used in the quote
 
You still need to escape if you want to write: She said, "I'm tired."
Right?
 
4:04 PM
Oh yes
Unless you use 'I'm tired' which is unethical even with human readers
 
I don't even know how that would work o.o
 
in ruby (and perl I think) you can basically choose any delimiter, including balanced ones which you can use within the string as long as they are balanced
%~she said, "i'm tired"~ ... or even %(she said (quietly), "i'm tired")
 
Just checked and you can get round it in python with triple quotes
 
but then you can't have triple quotes in your string :(
 
a = '''She said "I'm tired"'''
 
4:07 PM
You still can't write In Python you can use ''' or """ for block strings in a string without escaping though ;)
(unless it also has heredoc syntax, but that's cheating)
 
You can still have triple quotes in your string as long as you use the other kind of triple quotes to delimit the string. If you want both kinds of triple quotes in your string then you'll need to escape (from whatever crazy place is demanding this of you)
 
Hi, my name is '''""'''''""''''"". I'd like to rent a car please?
 
I'm sure that name is an OCD trap
 
oh cool, it automatically embeds xkcd :p
 
@Geobits You're like the friendly, but dim-witted cousin of Bobby Tables.
 
4:10 PM
I don't have OCD but I'm still tempted to copy and paste into a text editor to see which of those are single quotes and which are double quotes
 
Blame my parents...
 
aditsu ninja'd me
 
^^
 
while the chatroom is rather full, could I ask people (who haven't done so yet) to vote on answers here meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/4709/… and on this meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/4736/8478 in the interest of getting a consensus? especially the tag voting is still quite head-to-head
2
 
4:21 PM
rainbolt's answer to tips is super bad
 
don't get him started on this :D
 
yeah, thus no ping :P
I that answer should get -25
and then one of his silver badge should go away :D
ordered-answers and answer-chaining both seems a bit lacking to me
 
make a better suggestion
oh nice, someone starred your comment. -.-
 
you ? :P
:D
 
I wish meta had a "sort answers by whether I've voted yet"
 
4:26 PM
lol
 
@MartinBüttner evolving-answers or answer-evolution ?
 
@Optimizer sounds more like Showcase your Language
i.e. it seems to imply that each individual answer improves over time
 
thus plural
 
I really like answer-progression, but apparently pretty much no one else does
 
for a second think that the showcase ur lang. question did not exist
 
4:27 PM
@Optimizer well yeah... I mean it implies all of them evolve... on their own
 
no-one evolve on its own
its all about generations
 
answer-chaining is the best, I also plussed answer-progression
 
plussed :D
 
@Optimizer well post it as an answer :P
 
both ? separately ?
 
4:28 PM
@aditsu I didn't like that one because it seems to restrictive (implying only linear challenges to me)
 
@Optimizer short for plus-plussed
 
@Optimizer pick one or post them separately or post both in an answer with comments for each option
 
its all CW. so I'll post two
 
@MartinBüttner think chains in a graph :)
 
Wow, someone upvoted "There is no need for such a tag" ... I really don't understand some people's tag phobia ... I think PPCG is using way too few tags... we've got an average of something like 2 tags per question (of course, in this particular case it could be that the person just didn't want to see those types of questions at all)
 
4:33 PM
That should be a separate answer IMO: "Tag these as [stupid] because I don't like them here" :P
 
:D
@trichoplax I don't think this question is the place to vote on that
let me add a link to the relevant place in the question itself
 
@MartinBüttner Cool. I'll delete it
 
edited
 
ordered-answers - looks like the answer itself has to be ordered of some kind.
 
It's weird seeing the voting numbers changing up and down while I'm reading
 
4:37 PM
answer-chaining - what do you mean by chain here ? chain does not really tell that the answer is dependent on any previous one.. or its answer number
 
I think it implies an answer is linked to another one, like links in a chain
 
yeah, but it should imply that the answer is dependent on other , not just linked.
 
what would a link even mean if there's no dependency?
 
lol I swear someone upvoted the "we don't need a tag" just to mess with me now :D
 
I did :P
someone downvotes evolving answers but not answer evolution .
weird.
 
4:43 PM
There are so many answers that it is only possible to vote on a random sample of them
 
@Optimizer why...
@Optimizer yeah, I don't mind the latter as much as former
 
@MartinBüttner "just to mess with you" ;)
 
:D
@trichoplax I think I voted on all that I have an opinion about :P
 
@MartinBüttner So have I - just took a lot of scrolling back and for to see what I'd missed
 
heh, yeah
 
4:46 PM
Now the situation is even worse
 
Opinion is split really evenly on this question
 
earlier we have a 6 vote answer, now its down to 4 :D
 
I noticed that too...
 
At least there are a couple of stars to bring attention from other people later
 
huh, I could break the tie with a downvote
 
4:48 PM
We need to leave time for the new answers to filter up or down anyway
 
i think we need to wait 3-4 days more
for the so many newly added answers to reach other users
I just got ninja'd
 
@aditsu there is no tie. the order-answers one has an additional upvote from my comment... but I wish there was a clearer consensus ^^
 
Perhaps we need a message to say
this meta question has new answers to vote on
4
 
like that ?
 
4:50 PM
an answer feed meta would be nice (not oneboxed messages as we get for sandbox posts, but the feed popup I've seen in other chat rooms)
 
Now if people click randomly around the star bar there's a good chance they'll end up on that question
@MartinBüttner Yes I like the feed approach - saves things just scrolling off if you're not at the screen
Do we need a meta post to weigh support for having a feed?
Or can the room owner just add it and people can raise a meta post if they don't like it?
 
too meta
 
@trichoplax As feeds are only in chat, I believe it's better as a discussion in chat, not on Meta.
 
I don't see a need to clutter meta with it... it only affects the users active in chat. we can just do a quick poll by stars tomorrow when the other regulars are online too
 
Cool
 
4:54 PM
That being said... I don't know if there's an RSS feed for all Meta answers without having to add the answer feed for all Meta questions.
 
I'm too slow today...
 
Wait...
I found this useful tool: stackapps.com/questions/1599/…
If we want a RSS feed for Meta Answers, we can use this one:
 
Maybe the room owner could activate that first, and then have star voting on it while it's in place, so everyone know's what they're voting on
 
5:21 PM
@PeterTaylor do you know if random permutations (without built-ins) have been done?
I was thinking to use that as a replacement for my sort-the-digits idea, but if it hasn't been done at all I'd probably rather ask it for arrays than numbers.
 
@MartinBüttner You mean "shuffle an array uniformly"?
 
I'm not sure that it's been done as a single question, although I think it probably forms a component of a dozen or more questions.
 
hm, that's what I thought. although I guess most if not all of them would have been able to use a built-in for it
 
there is a question about random shuffling of some sorts, can't seem to recall
 
5:28 PM
well I know I've used CJam's mr or Ruby's .shuffle before a few times on PPCG, but I don't remember having to reimplement it
 
38
Q: How to randomize letters in a word

TomalakAccording to some controversial story, the odrer of ltteres in a wrod deos not mttaer much for raednig, as lnog as the frist and lsat lteter macth with the orignial wrod. So, for fun, what would be the shortest function to randomize letter order in a word while keeping the first and the last let...

11
Q: Random ticket code generator

AnkushA lottery company wants to generate a random lottery ticket number of length 10 characters. Write a code in any language to create such a number in which every digit comes only once for example 9354716208 in this number all integers from 0 to 9 comes only once. This number should be a random num...

 
hm, thanks... doesn't disallow built-in shuffle though
 
-2
Q: Create an array of unique ints in a set range

Elias Van OotegemGoal: Write a piece of code that produces a array containing all integer values in a set range in random order (upper and lower bounds included). Use any language you like, but use as little built-in functions as possible (ie PHP's array_shuffle should be avoided) Rules: All ints in the range...

 
I should probably also require O(N) solutions, to avoid sort_by(random)
@PeterTaylor haha I have no recollection of this question, but judging by the comments I must have seen it before
 
I found 7 other answers which contain the string rand}$ (i.e. sort_by(random) in GS) but those are the most similar to "shuffle an array". The others are a tips question, Hunt the Wumpus (select random positions for the pit and the wumpus), random numberplates, secret Santa, Boggle board generation, chess 960 generation, and some benchmarking code.
 
5:37 PM
wow, thanks
 
any linux users here understand how to set the max RAM size for any process?
I want to do it for all users.. in theory this means editing /etc/security/limits.conf but I can't work out how to put in there
 
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