The Whiteboard

@gnat wooo!

Adam Zuckerman

12:22 AM

Now we just have to wait to see what name we can all agree on....

1:18 AM

I think this sort of question is better suited to programmers.stackexchange.com, I think there are too many answers to this question for it to be on topic in stackoverflow — Mick 45 secs ago

1:41 AM

@Mick: No. First off, the question is too broad. It'll still be too broad on Programmers. Questions don't get magically narrower just by posting them on a different site. But even more importantly, tool questions are off-topic on P.SE, they belong on Stack Overflow. Basically, you are proposing moving a question that is too broad but at least on-topic to a site where it is still too broad and additionally also off-topic. — Jörg W Mittag 31 secs ago

user114359

2:07 AM

I have a feeling this name/scope thing will go over like a lead zeppelin.

2:18 AM

Get rid of the stdafx.h. It causes more harm than good for beginner programmers. — PaulMcKenzie 47 secs ago

A Boy Named Sue: Johnny Cash

4:42 AM

►

Well, I grew up quick and I grew up mean,
My fist got hard and my wits got keen,
I'd roam from town to town to hide my shame.
But I made a vow to the moon and stars
That I'd search the honky-tonks and bars
And kill that man who gave me that awful name.

user15026

4:57 AM

That's one of my favourite Cash songs.

5:19 AM

Try posting your question on reddit.com/r/emacs Some of the same programmers that monitor stackoverflow and emacs.stackexchange also hang out on reddit -- they welcome almost any Emacs-related questions over there. — lawlist 1 min ago

Walfrat

7:27 AM

Hello, i'm wondering if i should ask a question between StackOverflow or Programmer

It's a question about how to setup some classes together along with hibernate

Q: Is it possible for some "Too Broad" questions to be exceptions to the rule?

7:50 AM

36

I randomly came across this question. It's obviously too broad: there are either too many possible answers, or good answers would be too long for this format (see the first answer, which has more than 15k characters). Of course, it's an interesting question, and those who posted answers put a ...

^^^ drama of the day. Stack Overflow meets Hacker News at an entertaining homework dump

8:04 AM

I don't know about you, but personally I'd hesitate to name a class "BiologicalSexObject"

10:40 AM

I would of course rename it. To LogicalSexObject

10:58 AM

This question might be better suited for programmers.stackexchange.com — Drew Buckley 14 secs ago

Joe Stavitsky

1:06 PM

could somebody please recommend a book/library/site for entry-level multitouch ui? I got Wixon's Brave NUI world, it's quite interesting, but contains little practical material

2:39 PM

Wow. There are people who argue that user stories aren't requirements. WTF?

programmers.stackexchange.com might be a more appropriate venue for this type of theoretical problem. — John Hoerr 7 secs ago

I thought the "acceptance criteria" in the user story were the "requirements"?

I wonder if no one cares about the answer from here as I've not seen any more meta discussion?

@Ixrec I always interpreted acceptance criteria as part of the user story. The user story is not just the "as an X, I want Y so that Z", but also considers the team's Definition of Done and acceptance criteria. Those are estimated as part of the workload.

@enderland I just saw it. It's hard.

@enderland I think everyone in this chatroom who cares is chatting in non-SE rooms about it

2:46 PM

The discussion should be here.

Not necessarily The Whiteboard here. But SE here.

acceptance criteria are the quantified results of when a user story is completed, from the perspective of a user who can "accept" the work is complete - that's as close to requirements as you'll get

the one that I am in was just getting to the part where we ask each other who's going to write a meta Q

but it's an implementation agnostic requirement definition

@enderland Is there a term for the combination of the story (as an X, I want Y so that Z), the acceptance criteria, and the definition of done?

@ThomasOwens the agile knapsack problem? :-)

2:47 PM

I thought the definition of done was not tied to any one story?

@Ixrec It's not.

except in the sense that said definition will contain some reference to the acceptance criteria

I think the difference with acceptance criteria is it's more of a "From the external world it works like X"

But you still use it to estimate.

but you could, for example, have situations like

RFC 1149.5 specifies 4 as the standard IEEE-vetted random number.

2:48 PM

then I don't get what it would mean to have a single word refer to all those things

It is-a done?

@Ixrec You can't build software without requirements and are even opposed to the notion of requirements in "Agile" projects. If several people are claiming the user stories aren't requirements, then the only way that's true is if your requirements are more than your user story.

????

Maybe one of these people who claim that "Agile projects don't have requirements" needs to answer this, and no one here can.

Stack Overflow Participating in White House Foster Care & Technology Hackathon

those aren't people, those are marketing slogans

StackExchange

3:44 PM

David Haney on May 24, 2016

At Stack Overflow, we're committed to making the internet a better place, and our products aim to enrich the lives of developers as they grow and mature in their careers. This week we have been given the opportunity to expand our reach beyond developers into another worthy demographic: foster youth.

Q: New Site Name and Scope Proposals

3:57 PM

0

From Ana, a Stack Exchange Community Manager in the previous question about changing the site name: It took us a good while, but the Community Team has circled up and here's where we stand on your request to change Programmers.SE's name. We agree that renaming this site is a good idea....

discussion featured on-topic-definition scope site-definition

5

where can i download can protocol example code to understand

???

Q: New Site Name and Scope Proposals

I don't know what that means.

StackExchange

0

From Ana, a Stack Exchange Community Manager in the previous question about changing the site name: It took us a good while, but the Community Team has circled up and here's where we stand on your request to change Programmers.SE's name. We agree that renaming this site is a good idea....

discussion featured on-topic-definition scope site-definition

4:22 PM

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

@AaronHall Unicorns went far to grass fed beef.

My name is StackOverflow. I'm not a rapper.

aha

he wants CAN protocal example code

Controller Area Network

@user143252 what language? device?

a lot of that stuff is very specific to the chip you're using

most of the mass-produced chips actually have full can controllers built in

giphy.com/embed/AJwnLEsQyT9oA

stm32fxx board , c language @Ampt

4:31 PM

@AaronHall I'm just that good.

No doubt.

Are we Ampt up yet?!

actually my first gig was doing CAN based embedded systems haha

Hypes for Ampt.

@Ampt @AaronHall you work on can protocol ????

What what?

4:32 PM

@user143252 I used to

@user143252 which chip, exactly

That's right!

the input/output pins change

@Ampt great .... .. could please give me your email id ... if possible

nooooooope

D:

4:33 PM

fine .. ok help me here ..

gonna go grab lunch

look up the product spec

it'll have all sorts of useful examples

go to the product page for that exact chip

st.com/content/st_com/en/products/microcontrollers/…

something like that

i am sending the details of my work in 5 minutes... :)

then scroll down - there'll be the product spec, which is the complete documentation, and then examples, probably at least one will be CAN

can you send your personal can project ... @Ampt

i need to develop can libraries , api implementation and i have no idea about it @Ampt

If you need to learn something, and you're not going to school to learn it, you need to learn how to teach yourself stuff. Being an autodidact isn't easy. And popping into a chat room expecting someone to take you from zero to hero in a few emails will never work.

6

4:43 PM

i know.. i agree ... but need code to learn and not expecting to teach me whole code .. via emails

the purpose of Stack Exchange isn't really to teach people from beginning to end, though

I'm inspired to give a talk: How to Teach Yourself -
1. You don't know what you don't know. Find out what things you don't know. Prioritize them, fundamentals first.
2. Learn what you don't know. Google. Wikipedia. Books. Papers. Manuals. Study anything of relevance, and cross-check for consistency.
3. When you've checked off everything on your list (and can revisit the subject days later and still do it), you have taught yourself the subject of interest.

thanks @AaronHall

@gnat: "Programmers Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professional programmers interested in conceptual questions about software development." Maybe it's time to update the masthead? — John Hoerr 18 secs ago

5:55 PM

@user143252 nah, I'm not giving away any of that code, as it's all owned by the company I wrote it for.

additionally, I was using microchip dsPIC's, not ST

Q: Why do 'some examples' and 'list of things' questions get closed?

7:42 PM

for those of you who are better at finding good meta links than me, OP of programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/319375/… is asking why his question is bad and I'm not sure where the canonical "open-ended lists are bad" post would be

user114359

8

A common form of question that is often asked is the "what are some examples of..." While this is hinted at in the help center Please make sure that your question is not too broad, or strongly rooted in opinions. We should be able to answer your questions in the equivalent of a few pages of ...

discussion closed-questions close-reasons list-questions

Hi

hi

Can someone here have a look at this?

@Phrancis I agree with the close based on the reason, but I think that the question has merit without including "concrete implementation." Is there a better community to post this on? — Tyler Sebastian 22 hours ago

We closed it because it was pseudocode, I don't think it would fit well on Stack Overflow either, since there's not really a clear problem/question...

user114359

I think it is on-topic at Programmers, but I am pretty sure we have a duplicate of it somewhere

user114359

7:50 PM

"recursion during persistence" is not exactly an unknown problem/solution

Q: Best way to deal with Hibernate 1->Many relationship over REST/JSON service

Any chance you could find a link to such duplicate?

If it's already been answered then it would probably benefit the OP to just read that and not have to ask another Q

user114359

This one is close, but implementation-specific:

user114359

1

Problem: A Hibernate bi-directional One-to-Many relationship does not map easily to JSON. If default (Jackson) mapping is used there is an infinite recursion issue as the parent contains the children each of which contains a reference to the parent. The easiest way I've found to fix this is to ma...

java rest json hibernate

As this is a general algorithmic question about, you may get a better answer on Programmers.SE. You could ask a moderator to port it. — msanford 29 secs ago

hmm

user114359

7:54 PM

I'm not finding it, but I could swear there was a question almost exactly like that one asked here a year or so ago.

Well, thanks for looking and commenting on there

Q: Many-to-many in OOP: Class A instantiates Class B, which instantiates Class A, which

8:16 PM

0

I am mapping Field1 to Field2. The map object instantiates the field object and vice versa, creating an infinite loop. This is in PHP. class field { protected $maps; // mapCollection object. all the mappings of this field to others } class map { protected $field1; // field object protec...

php object-oriented orm

user114359

@Phrancis looks like gnat found it

user114359

He has a neural implant connection to the SE database, I figured he would know.

Many-to-many relationships are difficult, at least from my (database/SQL) experience. I can imagine in other environments they can be tricky as well

there's a lot of intrinsic complexity with many-to-many

you often end up having to make the relationship a separate type just to keep the two types being related cleanly separated from each other

an example from the opposite end of the stack from databases would be the entity-component systems that are popular in video game design; because video games tend to require everything to interact with everything (that's what I'm calling the many-to-many part) the ECS design basically reduces the video game entities to almost nothing and puts all the logic in "components" describing how the entities interact with the world

8:31 PM

@Ixrec ah yes, ECS I've heard a bit of (we use it on an open source game project, but I did not design it)

8:48 PM

thanks for your reply, is anyone else able to help me out — user229653 2 hours ago

^^^ any 20Kers around to help this guy... "out" of the site?

user114359

@gnat I will after midnight UTC

9:39 PM

hi

hi

user114359

ahoy

Snowman always gotta be different, dontcha.

user114359

si

listens to a data quality presentation

9:56 PM

I can't downvote yet, but I flagged that singleton question as off-topic

user114359

10:14 PM

@Phrancis It has CVs and is in the queue... too bad most of the high-rep users left Programmers the way rats jump off a sinking ship.

user114359

Used to be the CV queue would be at zero, maybe ten at most. Now it's easily 100+

10:32 PM

@Snowman That's unfortunate

I VTC'd

it's at 4 now

yep, this is pretty normal

user114359

@Phrancis yeah, it is. There is a long string of events, meta posts, and other junk that whittled away the community's desire to be actively engaged in user moderation.

user114359

I do have high hopes that we can revitalize the community with the latest CM involvement to rename/rebrand the site, but I am not confident it can reverse the current inertia that is "meh"

it's certainly the best hope we've seen for a positive change since the 3CV experiment

hopefully they don't turn around and make a completely nonsensical decision like they did on that one