The Whiteboard

user55340

12:08 AM

and a few more tweaks... data.stackexchange.com/programmers/query/319199/… -- knowing the max score and acceptedid will indicate if this is something the roomba can take care of or if delete votes are needed.

user55340

... this one is going to take a bunch of delete votes... or a mod.

user55340

41

Q: Is this a good idea to use humour during a job interview?

I wonder if it's a good idea to be slightly funny during a job interview. I don't mean to try to tell a joke, but just to insert a humourous thought, related to the question or the theme we talk about. I often use humour when I feel that there is too much stress or when people are not "connected"...

user114359

@MichaelT better, but it lists a whole bunch that need one vote and are already deleted

Robert Harvey

Out of delete votes again. Used them up in about 5 minutes.

user55340

12:35 AM

@Snowman You could also look at specific problematic tags with this query

user55340

The chat room/forum problem

Duga

Questions in the legal tag are being cleaned up. See This tag should not be [legal]. Questions seeking legal advice are off topic. Questions seeking licensing advice can be on topic at Programmers.SE. — cpburnz 5 mins ago

durron597

@MichaelT you should include the v.votetype = '10' inside the join if you want it to include questions where there aw no delete votes yet

In the on clause

Pete

12:53 AM

Just wanted to get some input on naming a model. The model stores timestamps for events from a data processing camel route. i.e. start processing time, data extract time, data failure time, etc... I called the model FeedStatus, but that's probably not the right name. Anyone have any ideas on what to call a group of timestamps for steps in a process?

user55340

WorkflowStep { type: 'start'; timestamp: '...' }

Pete

hmmm... That gives me some ideas.. might have to refactor the model. Thanks @MichaelT!

user55340

1:37 AM

user55340

1

A: About that "Good Subjective Bad Subjective" blog post and Programmers

Yeah, ok, done. Editorial note (May 26, 2015): It's instructive to look back now on the direction the Programmers community took after the enforcement of these standards began... Today it remains an excellent venue for conceptual questions on programming and software development, but has little ...

Duga

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is asking for licensing advice. Questions seeking licensing advice can be on topic at Programmers.SE. — cpburnz 32 secs ago

user55340

2:01 AM

pulling up the deleted questions feed... @ThomasOwens is apparently trying his hand at Haskell and needing to get his rage out somewhere.

user55340

2:16 AM

@AshleyNunn here's something I've stumbled across... enjoy...

user55340

お願い戻って来て! おいでおいでする猫 Please, come back! Taro beckon to May

►

user15026

Wow, the cat that starts on the right side reminds me so much of my cat!

user15026

They look very alike

user55340

@AshleyNunn the feed is... amusing. Apparently the person got their Crazy Cat Lady Starter Kit Super Sized.

user55340

むしゃむしゃ食べる9匹の猫 9 cats munch away a Cat food

►

user15026

2:19 AM

Wow, I thought my mom having 4 was a lot!

user55340

My parents at 7 at peak... but thats because we were the "we'll accept abandoned cats" family. I'd have to think what those seven were at that time though I can name them all without too much trouble.

user15026

My mom and a couple other ladies in her tiny town take care of all the abandoned/feral cats, either by outside feeding, taking them in themselves, or finding homes for them through the local cat rescue. It helps that a local vet will fix any males we catch for free

Telastyn

I had 8 at a time, but that was because the one stray we rescued from the snow was super preggers.

once the kittens were vaccinated and fixed we had less cats.

user55340

2:42 AM

@durron597 (and others): vote on it if you can: programmers.stackexchange.com/tags/software-developer/synonyms

overexchange

Do I need to go thru design pattern stuff before understanding object oriented design?

user55340

@overexchange No. Personally, I find the study of design patterns to be largely wasteful and makes other concepts harder to understand because you try fitting it in the design pattern mindset.

user15026

@Telastyn I think my mom had 6 for a while, when we found the kittens in the winter, but then my sister took one and my aunt took one, then my mom was left with the 4 she currently has

durron597

> You do not have the required score to vote on this tag synonym

user15026

I have only one myself, but if I can afford to move to a slightly bigger place, I might get a second cat

user55340

2:44 AM

You don't study "hammer". You study "Woodworking" as part of the "how to build a bookcase". You use the appropriate tools to build it. If you don't know how to use a hammer at that point, then you learn how to use that tool. Patterns are tools.

overexchange

So shall I go ahead with ood ?

durron597

@MichaelT I'd hammer out love between my brothers and my sisters

@MichaelT Did you see my comment about moving the v.votetype = '10' to inside the on clause of the left join?

user55340

Wendy (from the pound), Daisy (from the pound), Penny (Farmer's market). Beauty, Blacky, Timmy (grandparent's house - mother and two kittens). BJ (runt of litter from aunt). Anthony (pet store). Sammy (pet store I think). Joon (drop off at a farm as a kitten in feburary), Saturday (rescue), MIDI (moderately wild / tame cat who talked a lot), Kenoki & Ura (my brother's when he joined the navy), Pearl (brother's yoga instructor when he was restationed in guam).

user55340

@overexchange If that is what you need to study, yes.

user55340

@durron597 yep. Need to get around to that too...

durron597

2:49 AM

If you make that change I'll swap out the pin

user55340

And lastly (and certainly not least), Black Cat. He showed up at my parents' house, was a house cat before but hadn't been one for awhile (worms & ticks) and became my house cat.

durron597

Marky, Ricky, Danny...Robbie, Johnny and Brian. And Willy.

►

user55340

@durron597 data.stackexchange.com/programmers/query/319199/… - note that I've got a limiter clause in there so you don't pull back everything. Easy to adjust that value.

user55340

btw, all this talk of cats... here's a new startup for you to wonder at: live105.cbslocal.com/2015/05/18/…

durron597

@MichaelT This allows you to control the minimum score for avoiding wasting dvs on roomba posts

STCI delete candidates SEDE query (default tag learning)

user55340

2:56 AM

roomba is more complex than that. If it has a max answer score > 0, or an accepted answer, or is a dup... it won't get roomba'ed.

durron597

@MichaelT I know... but a positive score certainly won't get roombaed.

Regardless, the default is -10 on that parameter.

user55340

@durron597 There was only one question in that list that was able to have a down vote to an answer that results in a roomba deletion.

durron597

2

Q: Well documented open source projects to study for a beginner?

I've been reading up on/learning C for a week or two and was wondering if anybody could recommend some extremely well documented open-source projects I could study? Things like sourceforge are great and so on, but there's a great deal of things I don't understand about most of the projects on th...

learning open-source c

user55340

@durron597 That is 2x2 down votes from the roomba.

user55340

And the roomba just ran: it was programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/168467/…

durron597

3:02 AM

@MichaelT 1x2 now

I guess what you're saying is, if score matters, just downvote it?

user55340

@durron597 and now to wait for another day for that one to get cleaned.

durron597

@MichaelT well, anyway, the parameter is harmless. the default score is fine

user55340

If it doesn't have an accepted answer, or is closed as a dup (or is a duplicate target), down voting so that the highest scoring answer = 0 will delete the post.

durron597

You're right but I don't feel like changing the pin now. You are welcome to do so but I'm going to grab a good-beer and some food

cu around

user55340

@durron597 you can have 'fun' on SO with this query: stackoverflow.com/…

user55340

3:05 AM

I will point out that at one time, that query returned a few thousand results. Now it returns 128.

user55340

Might be appropriate to tweak it to '2..2' so that you can feed whoever is also acting on that query.

user55340

(I wonder if SE ever looks at their data and sees these odd blips of "there are no closed questions with score of '0' and no answers... or why are there so few closed questions for the month of January 2014?)

user114359

@MichaelT I won't have time to check out queries for a bit, this is a busy week. But I'll look through what everyone posted and try to figure something out maybe Thursday.

user55340

@Snowman no rush. These posts have been around for years. You'll only be depriving yourself of the joy you get when you turn the background pink.

user114359

@MichaelT well at least there won't be much basketball to watch for a week so I should have a little more time :-)

Telastyn

3:11 AM

@overexchange - I would recommend having some OO exposure before learning design patterns. They make better sense if you've run into a few of the problems they help solve ahead of time.

It's hard to understand why the things exist in a vacuum.

user55340

Consider this... if I showed you this tool and tried to have you use it without understanding the problem that it solves, you'd have no clue how to use it.

user55340

Whats more, you might try using it to... I don't know... fish something out somewhere... which isn't the right use for the tool.

user55340

If I said "I need to hold on to a pipe that is an arbitrary size" you'd say "use a pipe wrench"

user55340

3:21 AM

Strap wrench

A strap wrench is any of various types of wrench that grip an object via a strap or chain being pulled in tension around it until it firmly grips. High static friction keeps it from slipping. Many strap wrenches have built-in handles. Others are made to receive the square drive of a ratchet wrench. The strap or chain can have various forms. Some straps are made of polymers, and are smooth, highly flexible, non-marring, high-friction straps. (Before the era of commercial polymers, the straps were of leather or rubber.) Other straps are bands of spring steel, moderately flexible, slightly firmer...

user55340

The thing is, you don't study the use of the tool. You work from the problem and then find the proper tool to solve it. Using the tool in the wrong place is confusing at best. Understand the problem first and then look to how to solve it. Don't go walking around with the chain pipe wrench (or strap wrench) looking for problems to solve.

Duga

According to the tour "algorithms and data structures" you might have better luck at Programmers Stack Exchange — Micky Duncan 8 secs ago

Duga

3:43 AM

@MickyDuncan this question would be closed as too broad at Programmers.SE. Please read: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow. — Snowman 19 secs ago

overexchange

4:12 AM

@MichaelT In my query about list<E> interface It was just an addition of references and I did not change the nature of question.

I think it is very crucial for me to understand this concept.

Please allow me to do that

and then ask me what is the difference between old and updated question?

I just added one more reference to support my point

@MichaelT Thank you for your explanation, when design pattern, when OOD

I am clear now

Robert Harvey

5:04 AM

> Please post Html,MySQL,Java full coding then jar file name also.. don't post half of the code. I need full sample codes.. don't post unwanted comments "try yourself,post what you have tried like this"..

Robert Harvey

5:28 AM

The Globant company asked me to make a new resume for them in their own custom format. Interestingly, it all fits on one page.

overexchange

8:20 AM

am learning oop prog using python, is this the good link? python-course.eu/python3_object_oriented_programming.php

Duga

8:53 AM

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it isn't trying to solve a practical problem. It might be better suited to programmers stackexchange. — Quentin 29 secs ago

Duga

9:28 AM

"a ship class which then describes the routes" - ehm, no. A ship is a vehicle, which doesn't have to do anything with routes. A ship may be moving along a route, but the ship class itself should be pretty oblivious to that fact. Anyway this is off-topic for SO and too broad for programmers.stackexchange.com. — CodeCaster 9 secs ago

deostroll

Hi, in the following code snippet (c#) if the sink disconnects for some reason, `SomeError` is set to true, and the method is exited...but tcpSource connection is still open. So will using `using` construct actually close it automatically?

https://gist.github.com/deostroll/eadc02cd89f57aaf8fcb

Duga

11:42 AM

@LamloumiAfif I am not sure that this question is a good fit for Stack Overflow, because: 1. It is more about architectural issues, and thus fits programmers scope better. 2. You are asking is it the best? - and that is a practically blatant off-topic on Stack Overflow 3. It seems to be two questions in one. You can try to rework this question a bit, possible splitting it into two separate questions, and then post them on programmers. — Eugene Podskal 37 secs ago

Crazy Ninja

12:02 PM

anyone would suggest a good book to read to learn about programming design ?

MetaFight

what's your current skill level? What experience do you have?

Crazy Ninja

Java developer.

2 years of experience

But, i'm still not an expert in Java... lot to learn

MetaFight

amazon.co.uk/Clean-Code-Handbook-Software-Craftsmanship/dp/…

I've never actually gotten around to reading it myself, but all the good devs I know say it's their bible.

André

Look at MichaelT profile, he has lot's of books recommendations

Clean code is pretty neat, read it

MichaelT, Madison, Wisconsin

39.5k 14 97 142

java algorithms licensing programming-languages object-oriented design c#

Crazy Ninja

@André thank you

Duga

12:17 PM

Right, "this quesion belongs on Programmers" is no longer a reason to close. Oh well. — Mr Lister 16 secs ago

Thomas Owens

I find it interesting that the Development process areas in CMMI are Requirements Development, Technical Solution, Product Integration, Verification, and Validation. The purpose of Technical Solution is to "develop, design, and implement solutions to requirements". It even acknowledges that "solutions, designs, and implementations" include "products, product components, and product-related life-cycle processes, either singly or in combinations as appropriate".

Duga

Licensing questions can be on topic at Programmers.SE, and I think yours would be (unless it has already been asked). See When is a software licensing question on topic? — cpburnz 47 secs ago

enderland

1:02 PM

oh man, we have a 800+ email list "please unsubscribe me from this list" reply all party right now >.>

Thomas Owens

@enderland Only 800? There was one that was several tens of thousands at work last winter.

enderland

@ThomasOwens someone got the idea to reply-all "unsubscribe me" and now there've been... a lot of similar replies

Thomas Owens

Yeah. That happened.

enderland

I think most of the distribution lists which are that large here have only "approved senders"

Thomas Owens

The one that was used here was supposed to only have approved senders. It didn't.

enderland

1:08 PM

Bwahahahah. Oops

Thomas Owens

The best were some of the spawned threads. Like the emails "RE: RE: RE: I blame North Korea!"

And someone made an ASCII art of a plane dropping a bomb or missile or something on the words "this email thread".

enderland

lol

Thomas Owens

There were also lolcats and the phrase "this is why we can't have nice things".

André

hahaha

durron597

1:54 PM

@MichaelT There are a lot of Q1, A2 score answers questions in this query

delete-votes-plz programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/119642/…

user55340

Yep. Can not do that condition in a simple query. Still gives you things to poke at.

durron597

delete-votes-plz programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/142235/… (this is different than previous)

@GlenH7 Can you self-delete this answer please ?

MetaFight

grilled-cheese-sandwiches-plz ?

yes!

durron597

2:10 PM

MetaFight

ty

durron597

ibuprofen-plz

@Yannis did you mark my flag as helpful but not delete the post?

Duga

No, sorry, it's still not fit for SO as far as I'm concerned (there are however 2 reopen votes at the moment already). Your question does not seem to be directly about code, so it's off-topic for Stack Overflow. Design questions should generally go to programmers.stackexchange.com, but in its current form it's still not fit for there. It's very unclear to me what exactly you mean by " need a simple model that would allow these methods to be written later". — CodeCaster 28 secs ago

user55340

Given some of the comments @Duga spots, it appears that our media campaign is having some effect.

Telastyn

/me reads up on The Cloud.

durron597

2:25 PM

@MichaelT CodeCaster is a pretty experienced user. Has 2k rep here, also.

overexchange

OOP is more appropriate for physical systems, how do I understand this? One powerful design strategy, which is particularly appropriate to the construction of programs for modeling physical systems, is to base the structure of our programs on the structure of the system being modeled. For each object in the system, we construct a corresponding computational object. -----sicp chap 3

André

@overexchange ?

Yannis

@durron597 What post?

durron597

0

Q: Mobile Apps developement for Web Developer

I have been working in asp.net from past 5 years. I have so far liked it. But I am seeing a new boom in the market. And its not all about money. People are going towards iphone developement and android developement. since I have not done developments in both. so was wondering if it is better to ...

web-development android ios

Disagreeing with the flag is fine, but I was just confused why it got marked as "helpful" but the post wasn't deleted

overexchange

@André what does it mean to say, OOP is particularly appropriate to the construction of programs for modeling physical systems. does it mean like banking system?

user55340

2:34 PM

@durron597 unlocking a post can be sufficient. The roomba won't delete it, but the community can delete it now.

durron597

@MichaelT I don't think it was locked

user55340

Rejected migration. It was locked.

Yannis

@durron597 Didn't handle the flag. I don't see any reason to keep the post around, so... poof!

user55340

Though the migration reject lock doesn't prevent flagging.

André

@overexchange, yes I think is that what it means. If you're building a computer program to deal with traffic, you would end up modeling the car, roads and such as objects.

overexchange

2:36 PM

@André non-physical in the sense? any examples?

durron597

@Yannis ah. weird. I guess thomas owens handled it. (you were last active 13 seconds ago when I saw the flag was handled, thomas ownes was active 13 minutes ago, the other mods an hour or more). I guessed wrong

@overexchange dictionary.reference.com/browse/physical?s=t

Telastyn

That is misleading at best and wrong at worst. Designing OO ariund physical objects is a trap.

durron597

@Telastyn How would you design a game of pool using an OOP language?

Thomas Owens

@durron597 I would have a pool table, a cue, a ball. A cue applies actions to balls. I'd suspect balls would simulate their own motion on the pool table. If you wanted to get hyper realistic, motion would be a relationship between the forces applied by the cue, the surface of the table, and the properties of the balls.

Telastyn

Probably by focusing on what physics lib I was going to use and going from there. Otherwise you end up with objects for balls/players/table and then tacking on physics bits to objects that originally were centered on the concepts of the game.

durron597

2:42 PM

See, I would design it like the way @ThomasOwens describes.

Thomas Owens

@durron597 That's what @Telastyn appears to be describing, too.

Unless I'm misreading / misunderstanding.

durron597

@Telastyn I don't see why your second sentence is a problem... doing it that way seems fine to me

@ThomasOwens if I'm understanding correctly, you said "create objects for the table, the cue, and balls". He said "analyze the physics library, then decide what objects to create"

Thomas Owens

@durron597 I would suspect that your physics library may drive portions of your design, yes.

durron597

@ThomasOwens It would, but ultimately you're still going to have class Ball, class Table, class Cue and so forth

Thomas Owens

Yeah. Your library usage would probably drive more of your logic. Ball, Table, Cue and such could be more data objects or be smarter objects.

overexchange

2:45 PM

every ball(object) in this table(object) has a state(position). As said, For each object in the system, we construct a corresponding computational object. only when that object has a behavior of state change on time line

Duga

I think its an interesting question, but might belong on the programmers stackexchange? That being said, not voting to close — George Mauer 11 secs ago

durron597

@RobertHarvey (and everyone else) What do you think should be done with this question? SO? Here? Neither?

Telastyn

No, my way is not having the balls move themselves about the table.

user55340

This question is too broad - questions on stackoverflow are meant to include specific problems. — Paweł Obrok May 24 at 10:51

user55340

I don't think so - it's legitimate, but almost entirely context- and opinion-based. Depending on your specific circumstances, skills, etc. any number of answer may be "correct" — Paweł Obrok May 24 at 10:58

user55340

2:53 PM

Vote to close--very broad question. — Onorio Catenacci 2 hours ago

user55340

Leave it.

ratchet freak

@overexchange which means you don't need a Cue and Table can hold the collection of physics objects that represent the balls

Thomas Owens

@Telastyn I really see two approaches, and I think it depends on what your physics component looks like. One is to drive state changes to the table via a separate object and the other is to have each object be responsible for their interactions with the other objects (cue against balls, balls on table surface).

Both are equally valid designs, I think.

André

I'd go for a external "action driver", but that just my opinion

Telastyn

That second approach is horrible in my experience. It's letting peers know about peers, and leads to boatloads of coupling.

André

2:57 PM

nods

Thomas Owens

You're probably right, yeah. Doesn't the amount of coupling depend on the interfaces, though? After all, cues can hit anything, not just balls. And balls don't have to be hit by cues.

Thinking about it more, some kind of action driver to coordinate between the balls, cues, and table makes more sense, I think.

Telastyn

I expect I would have players, walls, pockets, balls (physics), balls (enum), balls (composite), game (turn management, victory conditions), physics (something to aggregate walls, balls, pockets)

durron597

three different balls? what do you mean?

Telastyn

I think limiting to cues hitting balls and balls emulating 2d would be sufficient.

ratchet freak

@ThomasOwens I'd let that be handled by the physics engine

Thomas Owens

3:00 PM

I think the level of detail depends on how realistic of an implementation you need.

ratchet freak

and the physics component each ball and table has that is registered in the engine

Telastyn

Separation of ball concerns. The physics shouldn't care what number ball it is.

durron597

@ThomasOwens let's say you were writing yahoo pool from scratch.

Thomas Owens

A table object may be sufficient, but you also may need to more explicitly model walls, surfaces, and pockets.

durron597

@Telastyn oic

overexchange

3:02 PM

@ratchetfreak cue should also be computational object, because cue is changing its state(position), so we need to maintain state info for this. table object can be considered as computational object, if you consider the number of balls potted in 6 pockets(on timeline) as state change.

Thomas Owens

@Telastyn Wouldn't that just be a property of the ball? Balls have a number (which has a color and pattern). But they also have properties that affect their physics, such as a mass, a current velocity, etc.

ratchet freak

a cue only affect the CueBall in a single physics frame (to impart momentum)

Thomas Owens

Although an enum to define the number / color / pattern relationship may be useful...

ratchet freak

the parameters of the momentum don't need to be stored in a discrete object

overexchange

For the game, cue position comes first before hitting and changing the ball position

Telastyn

3:04 PM

@ThomasOwens - it could be, though I would err towards SRPing that stuff. Different pool games use different balls/numbers and that logic should be distinct from the physics of the balls.

amon

@overexchange State just means you need some mutable data structure, but without associated behaviour I wouldn't call it an object in the OOP sense. Balls, Cue, Table all have no inherent behaviour here.

Thomas Owens

@Telastyn I honestly don't know that much about pool. But if that's a valid concern, then yeah, you're right.

ratchet freak

the angle and force of the hit don't need to be stored in a separate object though

it can just be passed through from the UI

Telastyn

@ThomasOwens - it is likely a YAGNI concern to be honest.

ratchet freak

Table.makeShot(angle, force, <exact position of the hit for spin related physics>)

durron597

3:10 PM

@MichaelT (and others) downvotes-plz programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/252251/…

overexchange

@amon In general, my understanding is, structure of our programs using oop on the structure of the system being modeled

Telastyn

Nooooo!

durron597

cv-plz One Two Three

Robert Harvey

@durron597 It seems a bit broad, so I applied the fifth close vote. If he'd just asked about immutability and hot-patching, I would have left it open. As to the migration, the problem is that it's not categorically off-topic on Stack Overflow; I don't think we can force people to bring such questions here.

durron597

@RobertHarvey I'm not even sure it's wanted here

It needs some pretty heavy editing.

@RobertHarvey While I've got your attention

Robert Harvey

3:18 PM

Movies that I cannot find are taking up 200GB on my mac

@durron597 Useless tag. Both of them.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Yeah, perhaps. Still, synonyming them seems obvious, no?

Robert Harvey

It's never obvious when it comes to tags.

durron597

@RobertHarvey What do you mean?

Robert Harvey

First, I have to see if the tag has a disproportionate number of closed, off-topic or poorly-written questions. Tags like that seem to attract more than the usual amount of flotsam. That all has to be cleaned up first.

amon

@overexchange yes, within reason. But who would not structure the program after the problem system? We don't need OOP for that, we can use C with its structs and functions. OOP brings something new to the table: dynamic polymorphism/virtual functions. E.g. in a computer strategy game, different units can behave differently although all units are handled the same in the code.

Conjecture: the main appeal of “OOP” is that instance.method() requires less typing than Type_method(instance), since you rarely this dynamic dispatch thing in real code.

Robert Harvey

3:23 PM

In general, I try to stay out of tag discussions nowadays. SE has never provided the proper tools for managing tag taxonomies; if the community wants to comb through 1500 questions to fix a tag, more power to them, but I don't get involved in tag disputes anymore unless it is really easy to fix.

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey Tags are generally broken.

overexchange

2 mins am on phone call

Thomas Owens

It makes me sad. They can be so powerful and useful, but they are neglected.

durron597

@RobertHarvey That has to be cleaned up before doing a plural synonym?

Robert Harvey

How else are you going to find the bad questions in the synonymized tag? It has to be done first.

27

Q: Why do we insist on overhauling questions in a tag when burninating that tag?

Normally, when we find a bad tag, like this one, we require that the tag be removed from each question individually. We don't even provide any shortcuts; we could have a Tag Edit link in question lists, but we don't do that. Instead, we require users to open each question individually and see i...

discussion tags

durron597

3:31 PM

questions with tag declarations are no more likely to be good or bad than questions with tag declaration

Robert Harvey

Nevertheless, you can see my point in the large, yes?

durron597

@RobertHarvey I agree in the large, but in the small, this particular case seems really straightforward.

overexchange

ok

Robert Harvey

They want a reversal as well. They're micro-managing it, and TBH, I'm not all that interested in that. Does that make me a bad person?

All that for a tag that's not all that good to begin with.

durron597

@RobertHarvey No, it doesn't.

Robert Harvey

3:34 PM

:)

durron597

Ben Voight may want a reversal, but he's wrong. shrug

STCI Status: career-development 86/job-definition 12/new-job 23/interview 230/work-environment 95/experience 38

overexchange

@amon For your point: OOP brings something new to the table OOP brings an idea in building abstractions for each computational object and nothing more than that. In addition, it allows object1 to communicate with object2. In addition it allows bundling the state and behavior in one place, while coding.

user55340

Apparently, "what is the implementation of Object.equals?" Would be a good filter question for an interview.

Robert Harvey

There's a guy over there who's always posting tag burnination requests. Sha-ping is his name, or something like that. I always leave a comment to the effect of "Only 1450 questions with this tag; go for it." Most of these folks posting burnination requests don't realize that the mods don't have a burninate button.

@MichaelT It's reference.Equals(otherReference), right? Or is it hashcode.Equals(otherHashcode)?

overexchange

@amon Crucial question, when you take OOP approach is, what item in the system you are trying to model has to be considered as computational object in your program and what item as not an computational object in your program. This is the crucial task.

durron597

3:41 PM

@ThomasOwens Add employment to stci?

Robert Harvey

@overexchange What do you mean by "computational object?"

Franco

need help in c++ anyone free??

ratchet freak

like a RigidBody in a physics engine?

whatsisname

what's up

overexchange

I mean, in java terms, computational object is instance of class Account{...}

Robert Harvey

3:42 PM

That's just an object.

ratchet freak

just say object then

user55340

@RobertHarvey if you think it's the later, "".equals(Integer.valueOf(0))

Franco

need help in c++ anyone free??

durron597

@Franco You might be better off asking on stack overflow

overexchange

I use to say object before, but these days I say computational object. because it has it's own methods to change its state.

durron597

3:43 PM

@overexchange 5 syllables is a lot

Robert Harvey

@overexchange As Jerry Seinfeld might say, "That's either really presumptuous or just plain wrong."

ratchet freak

@overexchange that's still in the definition of an object

Franco

@durron597 i'll need 20 reps for that :D

amon

@overexchange I would argue that none of these things are unique to OOP. E.g. many non-OOP languages make abstractions easy, some OOP-ish languages don't (hello, Golang). Object-Oriented Design and the SOLID principles etc. are all good ideas, but they are more broadly applicable. Note that I use the term “object” in “OOP” as “an opaque entity that responds to outside messages in a manner comparable to dynamic dispatch”, not in the sense of “a subject of a program”

ratchet freak

something that doesn't have those methods would be a Plain Old Data object

or a POD

durron597

3:46 PM

@Franco You don't need 20 rep to ask a question in the main site

overexchange

@amon yes it is not unique to oop, I can just use functions and build abstractions/messagepassing

durron597

@Franco Read this first, though

ratchet freak

@Franco and you don't even need an account to search on SO

Robert Harvey

@overexchange I'm reading in SICP where they talk about a "computational object." Basically, they're introducing OOP in a very abstract way. That's fine, as far as it goes, but no everyday programmer talks about "computational objects" in this way, and if you use that term with them, you'll just confuse them. mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/sicp/book/node50.html

Franco

and also reached my question limit

Robert Harvey

3:49 PM

@Franco How can you have reached your question limit on Stack Overflow when you don't even have an account there?

ratchet freak

@RobertHarvey stackoverflow.com/users/1933996/franco?tab=topactivity

Franco

i have one

Robert Harvey

Oh, there it is.

Yeah, your question history is terrible.

user55340

I would point out that sicp is part of the theory. Great for fundamentals and academic purity. Most of us are line of business and... Let's just say tend to be more pragmatic and willing to accept simplification and cut corners when it gets the code out faster.

overexchange

I say computational object, because, below is an function object that models account in banking system.. in python syntax

def account():
    """Return a dispatch dictionary representing a bank account.

    >>> a = account()
    >>> a['deposit'](100)
    100
    >>> a['withdraw'](90)
    10
    >>> a['withdraw'](90)
    'Insufficient funds'
    >>> a['balance']
    10
    """
    def withdraw(amount):
        if amount > dispatch['balance']:
            return 'Insufficient funds'
        dispatch['balance'] -= amount
        return dispatch['balance']
    def deposit(amount):
        dispatch['balance'] += amount

Franco

3:51 PM

indeed

Robert Harvey

@overexchange That's just an object. There's nothing special at all about that.

Using the term "computational object" implies weight that doesn't exist.

overexchange

@amon It is true that building abstractions/messagepassing/bundling state&behavior is nothing unique to OOP, but As said:

Our hope in using this OOP strategy is that extending the model to accommodate new objects or new actions will require no strategic changes to the program

ratchet freak

adding "computational" is only good if you want to emphasize the difference with dumb POD objects

durron597

STCI Status: career-development 86 / job-definition 12 / new-job 23 / interview 230 / work-environment / experience 38 / employment 29

overexchange

@amon I think we are deviating from actual question. when to consider something as object in your program while modeling a system.

durron597

3:56 PM

@ThomasOwens Ah crap I thought job-performance was nuked but it isn't because of this locked post. It's locked so I can't flag.

Robert Harvey

@overexchange Basically, when you want to encapsulate. The long answer is a little... longer, but that's the basic principle.

overexchange

@amon I said, any physical or conceptual model of a system can be considered as an object in your program when it has the nature of state change on time axis. Do you agree with this?

Robert Harvey

An object is a little package of functionality that wraps some state.

Thomas Owens

@durron597 It's OK. If it's going to be blacklisted (and job* should be), then SE will take care of it.

The only issue will be tags that aren't going to be blacklisted.

Robert Harvey

What does "the nature of state change on time axis" mean?

durron597

3:58 PM

@ThomasOwens cool beans

ratchet freak

but a pool cue doesn't need to be an object in the game, a single shot may be if the state it encapsulates is decently large

Robert Harvey

@overexchange Here's a little exercise for you. I have a small service business where I can sell parts and services to customers. I want to create an invoice that can be printed and given to the customer. What types do I need?

durron597

> & and && indicate And and | and || indicate logical OR

R documentation needs an editor ^^^

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Times Roman is so 1990.

durron597

@RobertHarvey and?

Robert Harvey

4:02 PM

Um, just sayin'.

ratchet freak

be glad it isn't comic sans

Robert Harvey

I imagine someone laughing hysterically while they're typing in comic sans.

That's why they made the font, right?

user55340

The only font to be declared as weaponized.

overexchange

From physics/whatever logic that you use while hitting the ball, the state(position) of a cue impacts the direction of the ball. I guess on computer, you first have to decide the position of the cue, which immediately set its cue state before every hit

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT So reference.Equals(otherReference) then.

ratchet freak

4:04 PM

the position is tied to the ball you are hitting

user55340

On LibreSSL and the weaponization of Comic Sans (slide 25) http://www.openbsd.org/papers/bsdcan14-libressl/

Tweeted by joewalnes on May 18, 2014 at 12:03 AM

ratchet freak

you then need the angle from which you hit and the point on the ball that you hit + the force

overexchange

ball can be hit anywhere in 360 degree, which degree you hit is cue position

amon

@overexchange I do not. Well, I agree that “every object in the problem domain system can be used as an object in the solution domain system”, but I disagree that this should always be the case even when the system-object is subject to time change, i.e. has conceptual identity. I would say “A problem-domain-system object should only be modelled as a solution-domain-system computational object if the object has inherent behaviour”. Otherwise, non-computational objects will frequently make sense

ratchet freak

that describes the shot

Robert Harvey

4:05 PM

Didn't realize you guys were talking about game physics.

A lot of the OO paradigm becomes a bit wonky in games, because you have to keep them lean and fast. Some games are just a grid with cells that have some state, and there are no objects as such.

overexchange

@amon that inherent behavior(nature) is state change. If a model in a system does not have state change, why would you consider as an object? what would you write in the java class for that model

ratchet freak

@RobertHarvey and some games add extensions to individual grid cells and bog down the whole game as a result

Robert Harvey

Yes, exactly.

@overexchange Some objects are immutable. A state change in such objects requires creating a new object.

ratchet freak

though usually the bogging down comes from being too narrow in the general state you allow in the grid cells

overexchange

@RobertHarvey If you are talking about strings/tuple, am not talking about data models provided by programming language

Robert Harvey

4:09 PM

You can make any object immutable.

ratchet freak

just add copy on write semantics

@durron597 go wild

[sigh]

@overexchange I'll have to think about that for a bit. I have to go now but will read through the discussion later.

Robert Harvey

4:11 PM

@durron597 [Looks for shiny red destroy button]

user55340

@durron597 retag all the things!

overexchange

@amon may be, please read chap 3 of sicp

user55340

@RobertHarvey delete all the things!

durron597

@RobertHarvey lol

ratchet freak

@RobertHarvey 1975 not locked or closed...

Stack Exchange

4:13 PM

Blog - Stack Exchange: Stack Overflow and Andela partner to provide education beyond borders

Jon Chan on May 27, 2015

Jon is a web developer and heads up developer evangelism efforts at Stack Exchange.

When I think about the impact that Stack Overflow has had on the world, it’s tempting for me to think about numbers: how many active users we have, how many questions are answered in a day, how many jobs get posted on our Careers platform. These are things that I, as a developer, think about on a daily basis to measure how we’re helping programmers around the world grow. But I find that these numbers are hard to wrap my head around: it doesn’t quite give me a feel for what our work is doing. What is the quality of our impact? What does it feel like at an individual level? …

durron597

Robert Harvey

There it is! [mashes it]

Nothing happens.

durron597

@MichaelT If I was going to do that, I'd at least improve the questions too so I finally get copy editor

> You're in the Infinite Improbability Drive chamber. Nothing happens; there is nothing to see.

Robert Harvey

@durron597 You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully.

OMFG I hate blog commenting systems. They ask for a login, and your comment gets dumped. You can't edit it once it is posted. I'm terribly spoiled on SE's software.

overexchange

check this:

Each computational object must have its own local state variables describing the actual object’s state. Since the states of objects in the system being modeled change over time, the state variables of the corresponding computational objects must also change. If we choose to model the flow of time in the system by the elapsed time in the computer, then we must have a way to construct computational objects whose behaviors change as our programs run.

durron597

4:23 PM

> You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

overexchange

because these are design phase issues before you code

Robert Harvey

@overexchange Time is not the only thing you can model with objects. And you don't need mutable objects to model time either.

All that really says is that your model's state may change over time, and that you need a way to model that change.

Which makes sense, really.

enderland

I am going to have a lot of time on the phone, I think...

Robert Harvey

4:42 PM

@overexchange I did a bit of research on computational objects. See here, where the author states that "A computational object is anything that can be the value of a variable." This can be an object in the traditional sense, but it can also be a function in languages that support first-class functions, or even a numeric value.

overexchange

function is also an object

Robert Harvey

Yes, in languages that implement functions that way.

This blog post extends the concept of a computational object to something that can be passed around in a distributed system.

In distributed systems, a whole new set of considerations come into play. If your distributed system is heterogenous, you need a way to communicate the computation in a manner that all of the systems understand it, perhaps by using a common scripting language.

You then have a "universal computational object," of sorts.

@overexchange You should enjoy that blog post. It's wonderfully ivory-tower.

Duga

I suggest that you do a bit of research on networks and then post this on programmers.stackexchange.com. — The Guy with The Hat 29 secs ago

Robert Harvey

5:13 PM

0

A: When is an object of a system a computational object of your program?

In SICP § 1.1.2, it says: A critical aspect of a programming language is the means it provides for using names to refer to computational objects. We say that the name identifies a variable whose value is the object. So a computational object is simply that which is pointed to by a variable....

@ThomasOwens Can we get a new custom close reason for implementation questions?

Thomas Owens

Unfortunately, not unless SE gives us more reasons.

Want to go support that Meta.SE proposal for a way to say "topic belongs on another site, but your question is crap"?

Robert Harvey

We don't have to involve Stack Overflow, except maybe to say that "You might be able to get help at Stack Overflow."

Stack Overflow does this routinely for questions that should go to SuperUser or ServerFault, but are not migrated there for quality reasons.

durron597

@ThomasOwens Code Review has 5 close reasons

Robert Harvey

You mean to say that Programmers only has three slots for custom close reasons?

Thomas Owens

@RobertHarvey 3 / 3 active

enderland

5:27 PM

@ThomasOwens isn't that the delete button?

Duga

There's no one right answer to this question. I believe it would be better suited for programmers.stackexchange.com — gyoder 47 secs ago

durron597

Should this be retagged to terminology or nuked?

@ThomasOwens 5 is certainly allowed. If CR can have 5, so can we.

Thomas Owens

@durron597 Way too many views to nuke.

@durron597 We asked at one point. We were told no.

Robert Harvey

Why should different sites have a different number of close reason slots? That doesn't make any sense, and quite honestly, it doesn't seem fair.

Thomas Owens

13

Q: Can the number of custom close reasons on Programmers be expanded?

Right now, we are limited to three custom "off-topic" close reasons. I wrote a fourth this morning to address a number of recent closures, but it's not possible to even turn it on without turning off one of the other three. This new reason reads: Questions must demonstrate a minimal understa...

support feature-request close-reasons vote-to-close

I can't find the Meta.SE post anymore. :\

I think someone here (@MichaelT, maybe) posted it. The idea was a checkbox in the "belongs on another site" page. If it was toggled appropriately, the user would be referred to the Help Center of the other site, but the question wouldn't be migrated.

Robert Harvey

5:44 PM

0

Q: Add a new close reason for implementation and troubleshooting questions

Code troubleshooting and code implementation questions are not in Programmers' site scope. Although there is an option to migrate such questions to Stack Overflow, the vast majority of them are not of sufficient quality to migrate there. Thus ensues a long-winded explanation of how we don't acc...

discussion feature-request

enderland

5:59 PM

This is an interesting job posting - careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/78455/…

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