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user20683
12:08 AM
@GlenH7 I figured out the other day that fizzbuzz is fairly easy to pull off in circuitry
 
user20683
also I suspect you could pull it off with gears and mechanical dials if you were an ME or thereabouts
 
6:52 AM
Since Programmers SE deals primarily with software development I was wondering if it would be ok to ask questions that deal with how I should model a certain problem I have or if I should look to another SE where such a queries would be more appropriate. My problem, specifically, is still in the conceptual modeling stage (hence me wanting to get other people's input on it).
 
 
6 hours later…
1:06 PM
@BaronSchnitz Can you be more specific about the kind of question that you want to ask?
 
Sure, the issue is I am working with a large number of task objects and am planning an algorithm to set up predecessor relationships between tasks depending the concrete property of the task object field: "Priority" and the more discrete property: when can this task finish considering its predecessors duration as well as its own.
depending on the*
So I am looking for insight on how I should model this in order to be able to create a manageable model, algorithm, and finally implementation.
 
Since your asking in the context of an algorithm that you want to design, it should be on-topic. I'd make sure that it meets the other criteria of a good question, though. For example, just asking for insight or discussion is likely to lead to closure for being too broad primarily opinion based.
You should show your work (prior research, existing algorithms, any kind of models or pseudocode or flowcharts or whatever that you have) and get into specific details and requirements or constraints that you have. But it seems like it would be OK if you did both of those things.
 
Okay, I was planning on asking for advice on modeling this problem. I'm not exactly sure, based on the good question criteria. Whether that in of itself would be considered too broad as it is a semi-invovled question and does not deal with a single facet rather the whole.
Asking directly: "What advice could you give me in order to develop this model". Or a question of similar scope.
 
Asking for generic advice is probably too broad.
You probably want to narrow it down to a more specific problem that you are having. What is preventing you from modeling this problem?
 
The main issue is balancing the discrete (non-concrete) property of cumulative duration with the concrete property: priority
 
1:19 PM
So I'd focus on that particular aspect of the problem. I think if you describe what you're trying to achieve and perhaps show how you've started, it should be specific enough.
 
Alright, I'll focus on putting together a succinct description and work on formatting the question to be very legible.
 
Don't be afraid of details.
I wouldn't write a book, but you want to give enough details so that people aren't suggesting things that you've already considered or done.
 
Okay, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks for the advice!
 
 
1 hour later…
2:49 PM
@RobertHarvey Like I said, it's not for everyone. It's tough to get through his style, but the content he generates with his questions is pretty phenomenal.
on an unrelated note, open source books are cool
 
user41796
@Ampt so long as they are maintained and semi-accurate. :-)
 
The Governator tried to start an "open source" movement for classroom textbooks, when he was in office. It was a non-starter. Too many vested interests wanting the books to say what they wanted them to say. A real eye opener.
 
Textbooks are definitely a no-fly zone for open source books unfortunately. Too much money
 
In my experience, you can get higher quality from an open-source textbook than you can with the artificial monopoly that the school systems have created. The average textbook has hundreds of errors in it, even with multiple revisions.
@Ampt Do they have one like that for Angular?
 
@RobertHarvey if they fixed all the errors at once, how could the stretch the same book out over 14 revisions?
 
user41796
2:54 PM
One of these days I'm going to break down and get a github account. And then come up with something to contribute to the world
 
@RobertHarvey I'd search for you but my mobile connection is starting to go, so I'll have to leave that to you. Honestly not sure, but it would be cool if it was
 
@Ampt Ah, silly me.
 
@GlenH7 I did when @MichaelT helped me with that tomcat app. Actually really nice, even if you can't have private repos on a free account
 
You can do pull requests, documentation and all that, on a free account, so long as the repository is public?
 
2:57 PM
@GlenH7 I did when @MichaelT helped me with that tomcat app. Actually really nice, even if you can't have private repos on a free account
 
@RobertHarvey yes.
you can even create your own public repos with as many contributors as you want
the only reason to go paid is to make private repos really
 
Didn't know that. Took away my last excuse for not having a Github account.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Nah, you'll always have being a curmudgeon as a last excuse for not doing anything.
 
user41796
I've been relying on that one since my early 20's.
 
3:00 PM
Yep. For hosting small projects that you never plan to sell or monetize, it's really the best option.
and, of course, intelliJ integrates with github out of the box
 
user41796
<clink goes the nickel falling in the can/>
2
 
see, I'm really trying to convince myself to get over the $199 hump haha
 
user41796
@Ampt For perspective, you're probably paying 3 - 4x the cost of that in taxes alone.
 
user41796
And you're young, mostly single, and have minimal expenses.
 
Let's take a look shall we?
besides my student loans, yes
minimal would be one word
nonexistent might be another
 
user41796
3:07 PM
Obviously, you need to keep the GF happy as that's part of the minimal expenses thing
 
I wish my taxes were that low.
 
user41796
OTOH, a comparatively minor indulgence that's beneficial to your career could make sense.
 
So far at the new job the gov't could buy 16+ copies of intellij...
WTF
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Yeah, I had to think through past conversations and take regional taxes into account. Yours are definitely higher AFAIK
 
user41796
@Ampt how many paychecks have you landed?
 
3:08 PM
@GlenH7 2.
 
$800 wouldn't even cover my taxes for a month.
 
user41796
I underestimated your taxes pretty badly then
 
We can make t-shirts!
 
Da club.
That's what it is, alright.
About three feet long.
 
hahaha
 
user41796
3:10 PM
I don't begrudge paying taxes, but I don't appreciate mismanagement of those assets either.
 
OTOH, I don't pay for health insurance either (Thanks mom!)
@GlenH7 Pretty much my viewpoint. I know that a lot of good gets done with them
but at the same time, I know that about $.47 out of every dollar goes to the military so... some not so good
 
user41796
I think the excesses in that category fall under "mismanagement of assets" as well
 
Yep.
 
The military could probably be leaner and meaner than it is.
 
for reference, about half a penny of each dollar goes to NASA
imagine all the SCIENCE! we could do!
@RobertHarvey I think probably is an understatement, yes haha
 
user41796
3:14 PM
that's Science! with a capital S and an exclamation point, please.
 
Someone told me the other day that basically Angular == SPA. Is this true, or can you still build more orthodox MVC applications with it?
 
user41796
I was probably the proponent of that argument
 
user41796
Trying to think through how the angular and MVC realms overlap
 
user41796
I think the first distinction I would make is that Angular is more like ASP.NET MVC than a silverlight or WPF MVC.
 
user41796
With the primary difference in where the model lives.
 
user41796
3:18 PM
ASP.NET, the model lives on the server in the form of the service calls.
 
user41796
Silverlight & WPF have a model layer on the client side providing the ability to aggregate service calls
 
user41796
Angular certainly takes advantage of the concept of data binding and having data structures living in the background of the application
 
@GlenH7 I wouldn't call that a model. More like a ViewModel with caching. The actual Model still lives on the server.
 
user41796
Breeze.js is notable in helping with local caching of that data along with push / pull assistance
 
user41796
I'd agree - Silverlight and WPF are MVVM
 
user41796
3:20 PM
I prefer to look at the broader concepts of the MVC* pattern and not get too hung up on MVC vs. MVP vs. MVVM vs. ????
 
The only real difference between those is the way communication is architected at the View layer, AFAICS.
 
user41796
I'd agree as well
 
You can take an orthodox MVC app with dumb views, and turn it into pseudo MVVM or MVP with some choice Javascript.
 
user41796
I think the big difference between Angular or a SPA versus a traditional MVC app is that the SPA loads (almost) everything up front whereas the MVC app only loads the bits as they are needed
 
user41796
And I'm focusing on pages or partial pages there, not necessarily the data
 
user41796
3:24 PM
The SPAs sense of responsiveness comes from the fact that everything is already loaded up
 
user41796
With the noted exception of when you make a data call
 
user41796
Not sure if I'm answering your question (or not) about angular or orthodox MVC
 
That's cool. Mostly, I just need to set some time aside to learn it now.
 
user41796
We've had to rethink how we deploy our applications as we've shifted from SL to Angular.
 
What is SL?
Oh, Silverlight.
 
user41796
3:30 PM
We were used to embedding the apps within a launcher. Because the Silverlight apps wouldn't load until called. Doesn't work that way with Angular or other SPAs
 
But how do you get the WPF-like UI goodness? With some UI library like Telerik?
 
user41796
So our launcher had to get redesigned and is essentially a set of links.
 
user41796
We're still working through the UI aspects
 
user41796
Fortunately, expectations are relatively low as we're in the initial stages of that work
 
@GlenH7 If SPA loads almost everything up front, how do you minimize the load time? Compression and minification? Or something more fancy?
 
user41796
3:32 PM
@MattGiltaji Compression and minification are the two most common techniques I have seen and generally do the job well enough
 
user41796
and rely on client side caching
 
user41796
We're using bootstrap to simplify layout with different screen resolutions
 
user41796
It's not perfect by any means, but it's been good enough for our needs at the moment.
 
3:53 PM
@MattGiltaji modern internet. (and compression/minification)
@MattGiltaji also lazy loading is common in SPAs too - lots of SPA frameworks give you switches that will let you set it to only grab the files it needs for the current display, and as people click around it'll make HTTP reqs to grab the other HTML pages/templates/css files/etc necessary for the different areas of the SPA piece by piece
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Which ones are providing that, and where are those flags hidden?
 
user41796
Having that ability would make it easier to write larger, more rich, SPAs.
 
@GlenH7 iduno, I've seen lazy loading toggles on most javascript frameworks I've played with, never looked too closely because I believe in the power of my first point and think the lazy loading is a huge pain for what you get
 
user41796
I hadn't heard of that yet in angular or ember, but I'm definitely not expert in their implementation.
 
@GlenH7 a large well written SPA will fit down your bandwidth with no problems and perform great as rich as you like... I think those lazy loading switches are only going to come into play if your site is like the size of facebook, otherwise it's extra work on your end to make sure things are lazy loaded in the right order for what is in modern days a micro-optimization
 
4:00 PM
I read an article once about layered SPA applications (where it only serves the page parts that have changed, and caches the rest), but I'm having difficulty finding the article at the moment.
Hmm, looks like Angular already does that anyway.
 
Apropos of all this I've just the other day taken over an Angular web app (prototype) from someone who just left, so I'm basically heads down in Angular now as I try to put a uniform system around this web app and have no one else on my team who knows UI...
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa John Papa has written quite a bit about Angular
 
So I've been living and breathing Angular for about a week and will for probably at least another month
@GlenH7 ... ?
 
user41796
Go back in the chat transcript for two open source book links about angular
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Just giving you references to help fuel the research
 
user41796
4:04 PM
Dan Wahlin is another blogger who was written quite a bit about Angular. Both Dan and John appear to know their stuff and treat their development as an enterprise developer ought
 
@GlenH7 ah... I wish I could agree with other poeple's designs in this space, but I find UI folks design approaches are even more uniform and un-creative than Java developers... I find for UI I'm better off working off examples and reference materials because my design approaches for UI are never similar to others. Occasionally I'll find something interesting in a UI devs blog but mostly it's just them regurgitating the same designs back and forth to eachother - ones I find too many flaws in
 
user41796
Papa's articles are more about solving problems while using angular and less about pretty UI.
 
How is angular?
good, bad, ugly?
 
user41796
He's been an enterprise dev for quite a while and has only recently been playing on the front-end side of things
 
user41796
And Wahlin has some great explanations of patterns to use in order to simplify / make more maintainable javascript code
 
4:07 PM
or rather, designs I tend to disagree with too much. Too much scattered stuff. Like this project I took over, UI developer was told go forth figure out the tech stack for this web app and get it together. UI developers tend to be so attracted to flavor of the day... His tech stack was sails, socket.io, angular, jade, coffeescript, less, of which he knew none of them ahead of time and used them all inconsistently (this page in jade, that page not... this directive over here, that one over there)
plus using sails meanwhile he was using sails in zero ways so it had a huge bunch of code and files around it while he wasn't even using it except to serve static pages
but it was all organized to conventions
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa I think I threw up a little somewhere in there.
 
so it's ok right? That seems to be the typical UI dev mindset I find... so long as you follow conventions you're good, even if it doesn't make sense in your use case and the resulting system is in no way tailored to your problem
 
user41796
I don't mean to talk them up too much, but I don't think you'll find either Papa or Wahlin to be like that.
 
UI blogs are usually piles of conventions being regurgitated back and forth with no mind for a problem domain
@GlenH7 I'll have a look
 
user41796
I have met both and gone to several seminars of theirs. They're very pragmatic about writing maintainable and understandable code.
 
4:11 PM
I wrote a little 'viewmanager' widget for Angular first thing, allows me to define my own simple stupid object and the viewmanager will from it create a directive, a route, and do it all based on a name so the files will be forced to be consistent and the routes will be uniform plus the whole site's navigation will be modeled by default
 
user41796
I can't say I have ever heard of them arguing for convention simply for convention's sake, although I think there are a few hiccups within angular where you really want to follow convention
 
and I won't have to worry about defining modules and module dependencies as the viewmanager will do all that for me. I just have to define views and design the UI templates (Ugh, I am shit at knowing how to make UI that looks good...)
@GlenH7 there are, and angular has a fucking lot to it, but so long as I keep what I'm doing with it restricted to simplest terms I ought to be able to get the functionality I want (data-bound-templates) without fucking anything up
 
psr
@WorldEngineer You've sold me. The next interview that asks me to do fizzbuzz in whatever language I want, I'm doing it in Minecraft.
2
 
user41796
right. I was pointing it out as it can trip you up if you aren't aware of it. I like to change things to "my way" just so I can be certain I understand what's going on. That can seriously jack up things in Angular.
 
user41796
@psr redstone circuits FTW!
 
4:14 PM
@Ampt pretty great according to ... well, everyone. One rare bit of conformity in the industry, nobody - including me - has anything to say about angular other than it does something hard very well
@GlenH7 for sure, I'm taking the approach of starting by restricting myself to the bits of angular I directly understand and what should be the minimal bits of angular's functionality I need. Still trying to ensure it's all done in a very angular way, just trying to keep my scope on it small to start with. Like a RISC, that should help me get up and going in it faster and safer than otherwise I figure
 
user41796
It's a pretty sound approach. That base for angular is still pretty large, but it's a good way to tackle it.
 
@GlenH7 well, I threw that shit out... I'll be picking apart the carcass for HTML for templates and perhaps some javascript for handling some data, but other than that... he didn't have enough work in it to have something useful, and the work for me to get something useful out of it would be way worse than starting over.
Luckily it was prototype and he hadn't gotten super far before leaving
 
user41796
Burn it! Burn it all!
 
@GlenH7 fire is like a pet that'll eat anything you want it to!
3
 
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Almost as good as keeping a block of lava handy
 
4:27 PM
-4
Q: Need advice on this Architecture design (Service, DAO, DTO, Facade)

user3767551Can someone give suggestion or Advice on this multi layer architecture which i posted in the below url? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/24993371/need-advice-on-this-architecture-design-service-dao-dto-facade

This is new...
 
user41796
A new low?
 
@YannisRizos why didn't the user just request the question to be migrated?
 
user41796
yeah, pretty crappy
 
@MattGiltaji No idea. They could also have just reposted it here. Posting just a link is... lazy.
 
user41796
Question is too broad with 7 different questions buried within it. Design review is pseudo on-topic for us, but it still has to be scoped.
 
4:29 PM
@YannisRizos you know LESS!
 
@GlenH7 you mean I can't post a large project's requirements document here and have the community do my job for me?
 
user41796
@MattGiltaji Oh, you can ask.
 
user41796
But your question is pretty likely to get a very frosty reception.
 
@GlenH7 Sure, we'd probably close it here as well. However, people would have been much more inclined to help him improve it and point him to the right direction if he had posted the full question...
 
user41796
4:31 PM
@YannisRizos Agreed. I struggled to come up with a polite close vote reason
 
In other news, the Stack Overflow mod queue is currently empty, after hovering near 1000 for weeks.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Hell has frozen over?
 
For a little while, anyway. I find moderation much easier when the queue is clear. Stale queue entries require much more effort to moderate.
I once spent a whole day clearing the queue. Had to take prozac for a week afterwards.
 
@RobertHarvey Is that an invitation? ;)
 
Pfft. Has the Programmers queue ever had more than a couple dozen entries?
Poser.
 
4:38 PM
I think the larger I remember is about 50. Some kid was flagging all the comments.
@RobertHarvey 1 Politics flag == 1000 SO flags.
 
Literally for him haha. Didn't know mods could do that
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey nice job in avoiding checking for type as well with ===
 
Javascript doesn't count.
 
ooooh burrrn
 
user41796
4:42 PM
@Ampt It's a super thin line that keeps this place from devolving into complete chaos
 
@GlenH7 And that line is tequila Prozac a fine white powder?
 
5:09 PM
 
5:50 PM
16 tons of tequila?
 
user41796
@Ampt Is it bad that I immediately started thinking of how to calculate that in liters?
 
@GlenH7 it shows your addiction dedication!
 
user41796
I admit to having a preference for using particular units over others
 
According to this its just shy of 18,500 liters
 
user41796
what did you use for the density?
 
5:54 PM
ethyl alcohol
of course it's 50/50 with water but...
 
@Ampt oh so only 8 tons of tequila?
 
ok, so I averaged the denisity of water and ethyl alcohol and got 892.53 kg/m3
then I used that as my density and got 16,262 liters
of 100 proof tequila
@enderland is proof by weight or volume?
 
user41796
tequila is closer to 0.95 g/cc depending upon brand
 
of course this is pretty back of the napkin anyway
 
user41796
I'm calculating it's closer to 15,300 liters
 
user41796
5:57 PM
And you're using US short tons, right?
 
Yeah I got the same here
yep.
Assuming that Johnny wasn't using long tons or tonnes
so it's significantly more dense than pure ethyl alcohol
 
user41796
Nah, he's straight up American so he'd blithely use a short ton and not think about it.
 
which makes sense because it's cut with water
 
user41796
Not only cut with water, but all of the other products that travel along in the fermentation process.
 
is there a Music.SE?
 
5:59 PM
@Ampt LMGTFY :P
 
"Was Johnny Cash talking about Long Tons or Short Tons in the song 16 Tons?"
I'd post it but I don't want to get Q Banned on another site
 
user41796
@Ampt sometimes a troll has gotta do what a troll has got to do.
 
user41796
Explain that it's in the name of Science!
 
@enderland isn't that more LMSTMPFY (let me search the main page for you)
@Ampt and it depends on what you are looking for
music.SE is for musicians
not music fans
there is a music fan area 51 proposal though
 
@AJHenderson it's more... music history?
 
6:02 PM
music practice and performance is the actual full name
 
2 mins ago, by Ampt
"Was Johnny Cash talking about Long Tons or Short Tons in the song 16 Tons?"
 
Not all music related questions involve alcohol... ;)
 
yeah, that wouldn't fit on music.se
 
:( and I was almost done
lol
 
you could add it as a proposed question for the music fans SE though
because it would fit there
133
Music Fans

Proposed Q&A site for music listening enthusiasts, music historians, and members of the music press corps to ask questions regarding (known) interpretations of songs, historical influences of bands, and the music industry (including production) in general

Currently in definition.

 
user41796
6:06 PM
I'm still going with short tons
 
user41796
On a related note, where should we ask about livers being able to handle 16 tons of tequila?
 
957
Biologybiology.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for active researchers, academics, and students.

Currently in public beta.

perhaps
maybe "How long would it take the body to metabolize 16 (Short|Long) Tons of tequila"
 
I just transferred money on my bank's mobile app and it asked if I wanted to share my experience on facebook. Seriously wtf
 
user41796
@Ampt Is it worth noting that's equivalent to 0.01% of the total annual 100% agave tequila production in 2011?
 
6:11 PM
@enderland marketing departments are so completely over the moon for social media
 
user41796
@enderland Yes! Please! I want to make it easier to hack me!
 
@GlenH7 I would say that it's relevant, yes. This is now in the list of feasible accomplishments.
I mean if they only made 2 Tons of tequila a year, you'd have a problem
 
Tequila Mixto? What is that for? Feeding to livestock?
 
@enderland be sure to share your username/pass too, that will make you real popular on facebook
 
6:14 PM
Yeah, I'm... optimistic it'd be something generic like "enderland's bank is awesome!" but still, seriously?
 
user41796
@Ampt bottom shelf crap that isn't 100% pure agave
 
@enderland that's why my tinfoil hat keeps me from using my bank's mobile app
even their mobile site is crap
 
TIL Jose Cuervo isn't 100% Agave
Jose Gold and Silver aren't even 51%!!!
 
user41796
Where are you finding the numbers from?
 
Wikipedia
the Gold and Silver are listed as Mixto, not even Mixto Tequila
err..
nevermind, they are at least 51% but not 100%
 
user41796
6:26 PM
I think they used to be 100%, but Cuervo cut back on the percentages in either the early 2000's or mid 90's due to blue agave shortages.
 
user15026
@enderland What why would you even
 
6:47 PM
I have no idea
Speaking of social media, I have a friend who was complaining on facebook that he is question banned on Stack Overflow
 
@enderland Did you link to the SO Help Center pages on getting unquestionbanned?
 
@ThomasOwens I was on my phone so I didn't really, though his questions all look like "give me teh codez"
Kinda awkward. "Oh, yeah, I know exactly how [and now why] you were q-banned"
 
user20683
I has a working circuit simulation of FizzBuzz that "prints" using 7 segment displays
 
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