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12:00 AM
normally it only comes up when a high-rep user ragequits and they discover that no they can't delete their several thousand upvotes worth of contributions to the site
 
Yeah I've seen that response before when deleting
 
 
1 hour later…
1:15 AM
Anyone willing to offer some advice to a biologist looking for a career change into programming?
 
user55340
@CactusWoman ask away.
 
user55340
(thing is, there is so much possible advice - bad and good... we need to know a bit about you and why you want to be a programmer... what domain of programming do you want to get in? what languages do you know? What country (and if the US, state) do you live in?)
 
user55340
(the state thing - the market in say... Wisconsin is different in its pace of life and focus than the market in say... Seattle or San Francisco - the focus can be quite different depending on how you want to do it there)
 
Well, I'm currently doing bioinformatics work - I've done a bunch of work on a Python module for phylogenetics, which I've been working on for about the past year. I have a BA in biology and I've used R for analysis and data-cleaning. I'm pretty experienced in R and Python. Is it feasible for me to get a job with this level of experience but no formal education? Would it be wise to do one of those programming boot camps? I currently live in Chicago
 
user55340
Pinging @Ampt for Chicago market info...
 
user55340
1:22 AM
(I'm a bit north in Wisconsin... Ampt is down in that neck of the woods)
 
user55340
On one hand, I'm going to say "you could probably get a job at Epic without too much difficulty - they're a medical information systems company in the Madison area... and have prided themselves on... less than traditional paths to software development careers.
 
user55340
Though I'll also point out with Epic they've got the "if you're over 30... its a bit awkward of a fit)
 
user55340
However, its all a matter of getting that first job as a developer. Once you're in, you're in.
 
@CactusWoman depends on lots of things, not the least of which being luck. What level do you want to enter the industry at for instance? Typically you have to enter pretty junior unless you have a very strong portfolio when having no degree to start.
 
user55340
1:26 AM
There are a number of python shops around. If you could put your R knowledge into ETL type framework there are a number of data mining and such positions that you could look at (the team that sits next to me is all ETL)
 
"pretty junior" as in not even in development
 
user55340
In computing, Extract, Transform and Load (ETL) refers to a process in database usage and especially in data warehousing that: Extracts data from homogeneous or heterogeneous data sources Transforms the data for storing it in the proper format or structure for the purposes of querying and analysis Loads it into the final target (database, more specifically, operational data store, data mart, or data warehouse) Usually all the three phases execute in parallel since the data extraction takes time, so while the data is being pulled another transformation process executes, processing the already received...
 
that's actually a great idea
 
I'm useless for any concrete advice about companies and salaries and positions, but it sounds like you already have good practical knowledge, and formal education is definitely not mandatory, so what I'd recommend is doing a bit of self study on data structures and algorithms, since they're among the most important aspects of the standard formal education (both in practice and as interview prep)
 
user55340
Having a degree is a good thing - its a "I have done this for awhile and can be successful at long term projects"
 
1:27 AM
there's a lot of non-directly-development positions in the vein of ETL which would get you into the industry and allow you to show your engineering accumen from R/Python to get moved over into full time dev. If you have a strong portfolio with no degree though you can probably get straight into a junior position
 
user55340
Keyword for ETL is (aside from ETL) data warehouse.
 
user55340
> Jr. Informatica Administrator
Our great client is looking for a Jr. Informatica Administrator with 2-5 years of experience ...
 
user55340
?! 2-5 years is Jr?
 
I smell overestimates
 
user55340
@Ixrec @enderland workplace question for you... "Is this a Job smell? What do I call the anti-pattern of looking for a Jr. developer with 10 years of experience?"
2
 
user55340
1:33 AM
(just making fun of some Programmers.SE style bad question titles and that enderland is a mod over on workplace...)
 
Thanks for all of your advice. I'll definitely look into ETL; it's very helpful to have something specific to look at! I'm also considering taking the Stanford Programming 101 online Coursera course; would that certificate be worth putting on a resume?
 
user55340
Consider finding a database that has neat data in it... and use your R background to do neat visualizations on that data.
 
user55340
Not that I know of any...
 
user55340
Dec 21 '15 at 23:04, by Jimmy Hoffa
R is fun.
 
user55340
Dec 21 '15 at 23:05, by Jimmy Hoffa
I am totally going to end up csv exporting half of SEDE just to make visualizations with R
 
1:35 AM
my impression is individual courses and certificates and stuff probably doesn't do much in a resume (as opposed to a "proper" degree), you'd probably be better off listing cool stuff you've done with Python/R on Github
 
user55340
Though also ping @Ampt about Chicago area contracting jobs and their requirements. Some places want bodies to fill seats. I am sure you can do more than that... but its also a place to say "look at me, I worked for con$ulting company and I did these things"
 
user55340
(my first job out of college was at Taos Mountain taos.com in California during the boom days... I was a body on the phone at SGI... then I was a body clicking in a web browser at Cisco doing QA... and that also counts as a 'first job' and can get you into programming paths)
 
Thanks for the information, everyone. I guess for now I'll focus on gathering all of the interesting stuff I've done onto Github. Would you all know what types of R and Python projects people typically put on their resumes? I'm sure there is a lot of variety in what people post, of course, but I would probably benefit from seeing some examples
 
user55340
To an extent depends on what part of the tech industry you head to. Different things for different employers.
 
user55340
Hmm... check out jobs listed as "data scientist" at insurance companies.
 
user55340
1:47 AM
> Data Scientist
UnityPoint Health - 21 reviews - Madison, WI
Demonstrated expertise in statistical programming using software such as R, Python, Weka, or SAS. Primary Function and Relationship to Organization....
 
@MichaelT Human Resources?
 
user55340

Statistical Programmer

sellbackyourBook.com

sellbackyourBook.com is seeking a statistical programmer to help us provide insight and surface trends in our data. The…

Posted on Stack Overflow Careers on January 8, 2016

 
user55340
Given your background... apply for that. See if you get it.
 
user55340
As with much of the career search, the worst they can say is "not at this time."
 
@MichaelT I've seen that posting, although I did notice that they require "Bachelors degree in computer science or a math related field", and I'm not sure if they would consider Biology to be a "math related field". Still, as you said, there's no harm in applying!
 
user55340
1:53 AM
@CactusWoman Its science. They're trying to filter out the art and philosophy majors.
 
user55340
The thing is, its also experience for finding out what those types of jobs want.
 
I will keep that in mind, thanks! This has been very helpful
 
user55340
Any time. We've all been in a job search at one time or another...
 
user55340
In the past two years... I think nearly all the room regulars have been involved in a job search.
 
user15026
Sometimes more than one :P
 
2:17 AM
@CactusWoman also, figure out what you like doing
 
user55340
2:31 AM
Fellow feasters and followers of fromage... I have this question for you (note, its already been done). Got a bunch of cheese for my neighbor up north who has been clearing the snow from my part of the sidewalk this winter. And summer sausage. And some mustard too. But its the cheese that is the question. If you don't know how much the person likes cheese... which aged cheddar do you go for: 1 year? 3 year? 5 year? 7 year? or 10 year?
 
user55340
(the other cheeses were hickory smoked string cheese, marble colby with pepperoni, a blueberry cheddar, and a salsa cheese (it had the peppers in it)... and garlic summer sausage... and Door County Cherry Sausage ( brennansmarket.com/Product/3 )...
 
user55340
17
Q: Do computer glasses work?

configuratorThere are a few different types of "computer glasses" available: Steelseries Scope Gunnar Computer Glasses They seem to be designed for long gaming sessions. Seem a little silly, but thought I'd ask has anyone used them? Do you think they would aide in long coding marathons or reduce eye stra...

 
user55340
@WorldEngineer BURN IT WITH FIRE!
 
user55340
3:18 AM
> Should the app be built in a way that booleans trigger these changes?
 
user55340
I never really understand the desire for the feature configuration approach as a standard model. It makes for nightmarish testing scenarios.
 
user55340
"This code isn't done yet, don't enable that flag" and you've let partial, untested, or bad code leak into the production build.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa ^^
 
9:22 AM
user image
2
 
 
2 hours later…
11:06 AM
@Ixrec enterprise software at its finest
 
11:43 AM
ahahaah
 
that's what, 6 abstraction layers just to get to business logic and then 2 more to get to the DB...
 
and each layer ain't exactly thin
 
credit to my coworkers for that one
 
hah that's at your gaff? nice
 
not our code, but a coworker linked it
 
11:57 AM
ah
aw
 
I'm sure our ancient Fortran code is much worse, but not in ways that can be visualized so easily
 
that should be totally unbiased
never mind, it actually was unbiased
 
12:25 PM
When this question is closed, consider asking this question on programmers.stackexchange.comTT. 14 secs ago
@Yannis It's all so blurry those on-topic's, including Programmers. All I can say is that it's off-topic here (too broad). IMO this question could fit Programmers. Can't think of another member of StackExchange network. — TT. 33 secs ago
 
sigh
 
1:06 PM
Has anybody ever reviewed a technical document, and then started out like, "WOW!!! He did a GREAT JOB!!! This is so comprehensive!" Then as you continue reading... "Huh... he is an extremely articulate writer, I wonder why he speaks English so poorly?" Then about 25% through the document you are like, "Ok WTF, there is no way you wrote this... what the hell did you plagiarize?"
The part that angers me isn't the plagiarism, it is that my hopes shot WAY UP for the success of the project only to crash back down to reality
 
@Ixrec Wow, does anyone still know fortran?
Anyone got any good ideas (or maybe a SE site) on how a UK based lapsed C/C++/Java analyst programmer can get back to using proper languages & databases after slumming it with PHP/MySQL for far too long?
 
1:23 PM
@PhilLello It is hard
Too easy to get distracted
 
@maple_shaft Indeed. Biggest challenge I'm finding is recruiters are just using keyword matching and assuming people want to carry on using the same technologies forever.
 
I used this site though to get me refreshers on algorithms specifically:
 
the bright side is it's really hard to fake that completely @maple_shaft because writing English well is really hard
 
This will help you build real skills, but that doesn't necessarily translate to resume success
@enderland You mean, "writing English well" ... oh wait
 
i right good engrish
 
1:27 PM
Indeed. It's the getting put forward in the first place that's the issue - UK market doesn't seem to hugely use online tech-tests - although I have one pending.
 
@PhilLello Depending on how old you are, that might just be a function of being an older technologist. In one advantage people look at an older programmer and with limited time and effort have reasonable faith that they can solve a programming test, at the very least a test that is comparable to the real kinds of problem solving that most dev shops today hire for
They reserve those kinds of evals for younger and junior developers in the absence of real experience
 
Damn, work call, wanted to continue this....
 
Older devs generally don't want to drop in rank to a junior for the sake of switching stacks. Employers would look down on you if you were serious to do that to because voluntarily allowing yourself to demote lowers your social status
@PhilLello Do the needful
4
Did I just say "Do the needful"? wtf is wrong with me. I caught myself doing the wishy-washy head bobble thing the other day when talking to my wife. This place is making me lose myself
@PhilLello I would say, devote at least an hour a day after work to solving Hackerrank problems and do this until you are comfortable coding. I would then get a good book on full stack development in Java/C++ or whatever interests you and devote an hour to reading that a day. Eventually replace the hackerrank challenges with exercises in your book, make sure it is a recent book. Bone up on all the options in terms of build management, source control, continuous integration to a level cont...
... cont where you can be comfortable talking about it with others that are more experienced with it than you. Finally at this point think of a way that you can show real experience with it. Contributing to an open source project is one good option, another is to start a small one-person company and work on a side project, maybe a web app idea. Let it fizzle out if you aren't that committed but BOOM, now you have at the very least and interesting conversation piece on your resume that cont...
..cont makes you look competent and confident in the framework and stack
 
user55340
@PhilLello I can probably code it again with a week refresher. I knew F77 and F90 for a numerical methods class back in college. It is not rare to find in civil engineering.
 
user55340
Things like stess calculations on bridges. The code works. It's worked for decades. Occasionally needs some refinement for new materials or adjustments to building code tolerance.
 
2:21 PM
If you don't have a specific problem, e.g. error, etc. then stack overflow is not the right place for this question. Have you considered programmers.stackexchange.com? — roryap 28 secs ago
 
user55340
@Duga best practices?! Ug.
 
Dumb question: When building a new project off of boilerplate hosted on GitHub, should you fork the boilerplate or just download it and init your own repo separately?
 
user55340
@NathanArthur init fresh. Forking boilerplate confuses the history.
 
forking implies you want to either submit pull requests back to the original repo, or you want to update your repo whenever something changes in the original repo
starting a project from boilerplate sounds like neither of those apply
 
Makes a lot of sense. Thanks!
 
2:38 PM
@NathanArthur Do you care about the old history?
@NathanArthur Ignore me, didn't read properly
 
@phi lol np
 
3:18 PM
Jan 11 at 22:06, by Aaron Hall
My former boss told me he has over a decade of experience in doing the needful.
 
@Ixrec 100% of why I avoid any framework that appears of a sincere size or capable of many disparate things like the dickens. This kind of nonsense is how people create large libraries - "frameworks" (yuck, I create frameworks, but not like that..eesh)
@PhilLello well first you have to learn a proper language
Dec 29 '15 at 18:29, by Jimmy Hoffa
Nov 13 at 23:07, by Jimmy Hoffa
@Ixrec Have you accepted Haskell into your home and into your heart yet? Can I interest you in a monoid?
 
I did a 3rd try at Haskell last weekend. While I'm making progress with the language, it didn't work out (because I was trying to model a complex type hierarchy that could really only be expressed in Scala or Perl6. I'm porting it to C++ instead)
 
@amon what ails you child? What was the type hierarchy you were trying to model? The tricky thing to remember with Haskell that makes it so painful (I'm faaar from an expert) is, to do something from another language you have to do it in such a different way. Your type hierarchy you were trying to port, likely should have been completely rejiggered for it to work in Haskell
 
user55340
Ahh BASIC rep.
 
Hmm. Has any version of BASIC ever been All-purpose, or particularily Symbolic?
IIRC, Commodore64 BASIC was primarily a good reason to learn assembler.
 
3:31 PM
@PhilLello of course? VB.NET would be the most modern variant and it's backed by a comprehensive framework and modern set of functionality
VB for years was perfectly capable of comprehensive applications. It's not my favorite language, but BASIC has had so many varietals over the years, I'm certain many have been capable of all-purpose coding.
 
@JimmyHoffa True. Just very cynical at the moment.... must be mid-life-crisis time since turning 40 =D
 
There's historically been untold numbers of applications, both professional and remedial, written entirely in some form of BASIC.
 
I should have learned assembler...
 
@AaronHall What processor though?
 
@PhilLello Let your inner cynic out by opening your heart to Haskell. All other languages will appear like toys or strange poorly done hobbled versions of Haskell henceforth.
 
3:34 PM
I'm sure for any, but I had a Commodore 64.
 
@JimmyHoffa I was thinking too OOP-y with traits and inheritance. I got the necessary type classes working, but was not willing to (a) spell out all the common fields for each “leaf” type, or (b) express the common structure via composition and write the necessary boilerplate to flatten away that extra level in the API. Too little DRY in either case. I was trying to create an AST-like structure where each node has multiple metadata fields.
 
@JimmyHoffa Are you sponsored by Haskell.org?
 
user55340
Hmm. Now I wish I had an AppleSoft basic interpreter code to look at. I want to know what happened to the memory representation when a line was edited.
 
@AaronHall That'd be 6502 IIRC. Or 6810. A 6, a 0, and 2 other digits, certainly.
 
@amon when I've done ASTs in Haskell it worked very well doing such as...
data CSharp a =
         File [CSharp a]
       | Class [CSharp a]
       | Property [CSharp a]
       | Method [CSharp a]
       | Comment a
       | Namespace [CSharp a]
       | Using (CSharp a)
       | Block [CSharp a]
       | Unidentified a
       | Expr a
       | Empty
       deriving (Show, Ord, Eq)
 
user55340
3:37 PM
@PhilLello 6502.
 
@amon you just have to make each leaf specialized with it's set of relevant pieces; though you are likely as strong as me in these things from the stuff I've seen you post regarding languages. Was the type of thing I described just not fitting for some reason?
 
user55340
Incidentally the phone number of the local apple ][ dealer back in the day was 256-6502
 
user55340
Or was it 255-6502? Either way.
 
Hmm. I thought the 6502 was a custom job for Commodore and had the tape drive control lines coming out of it.
 
@PhilLello now I'm curious if Haskell.org is a thing... and no, I wish I could work in Haskell but so long as it's so poorly known, I'll have nought opportunity. So I encourage everyone to know it, that my chances of working in it may rise - as well as the code of others will improve in quality as learning it typically causes most people to recognize a slew of new ways of looking at code and problem solving.
 
user55340
3:39 PM
@PhilLello it was the classic late 70s cpu.
 
@JimmyHoffa Now imagine that except we have Method Line Column [Csharp a] | Comment Line Column [Csharp a] etc, and I have so many fields in some leafs that it's no longer manageable to use these tuple constructors but need named fields. I know I could introduce an extra metadata node Meta Line Column (Csharp a), but that would vastly complicate processing of the data structure.
 
user55340
I think Vic-20 and Atari also used it.
 
@MichaelT Ah, I was wrong. Too long since I looked at the schematic. I always liked the way Commodore included those in the user manual.
 
user55340
It was also in the Mac IIfx as the serial line processor.
 
@MichaelT can confirm - many of the people in my training group had really unrelated degrees
 
user55340
 
@amon why would Line and Column not just be elements of the root AST (CSharp) so you would have Meta (CSharp a) (CSharp a) (CSharp a) or using a triple, and your data structure processing just parameter matches to redirect to the solutions for Meta and then Line and Column ? Iduno, it sounds like you have a very complex state machine, and reality is those are painful and messy and genuinely the most difficult things to do in a clean fashion of anything we do.
 
user55340
With the Red Book, you can wire wrap a working Apple 2 today.
 
@maple_shaft Unholsters sidearm What was that?
 
user55340
36
Q: Upgoat or Downgoat?

DowngoatGiven an image of a goat, your program should best try to identify whether the goat is upside down, or not. Examples These are examples of what the input may be. Not actual inputs Input: Output: Downgoat Spec Your program should be at most 30,000 bytes The input will contain the full goa...

 
user55340
3:45 PM
Mathematica has a builtin for determining goats. I don't know how to feel about that. — Robert Fraser 24 mins ago
 
Hmm... no Haskell solution to goats, @JimmyHoffa
 
@GlenH7 There might still be time to save him!
 
@PhilLello says the guy who knows zilch of Haskell; you're incorrect of course, but go about your way believing otherwise if it pleases you.
 
@JimmyHoffa I thought this through very carefully and came to the conclusion that Haskell is not sufficiently expressive for this kind of modelling, unless it does have “proper” inheritance I just don't know about. I then went through the list of languages I know, crossed out all without a proper type system, and was left with OCaml, Scala, Rust, and C++. Of these, C++ is the most verbose, but it will not get in my way.
 
@jimmy Nooo, I was prompting you to submit a Haskell solution for the cause ;)
 
user41796
3:51 PM
@Ampt True. That would be the more compassionate approach. And it might help us turn the tide in the zombie wars.
 
@MichaelT Best phone number ever.
 
@amon what does subtypical inheritance do for you? And why wouldn't type classes as interfaces provide the facility you want? I've yet to come up with a good reason to use subtypal inheritance the more I think it through... I can write methods against interfaces, so I don't need to inherit those from a base class, and inheriting properties from a base class when I can just compose them lacks purpose...
@PhilLello as I said, it's already there
> m ⇒ ∀ t : goats . m (λ x : t . t → t).
 
@Ixrec You say overestimates, I say money the client has agreed to spend!
 
@JimmyHoffa I have 4 fields of common data in my type hierarchy, and ~20 leaf types. It doesn't matter if I express that with composition or spell it out, in either case I am dealing with a massive amount of boilerplate, especially for adapting each type to the necessary type classes. Inheritance lets me inherit all of that.
 
@amon so you want 20 types, and you don't want to put a property on each one that's just SomeCommonData with those 4 values in it?
 
4:04 PM
5
A: How on Earth this kind of question can be so appreciated?

Robert HarveyTo be clear, "How do I do [something]" and "I'm too lazy to try something" are not the same thing. The reason such questions are so popular is because many people find them useful or interesting. Like it or not, those questions attracted votes because they attracted views. If you google "How t...

 
@amon as for adapting to a type class, you can create 20 leaf data constructors on 1 type - and each one has SomeCommonData then you only have to implement 1 typeclass on that 1 type, with 20 lines of matching to indicate where the SomeCommonData is found
 
@JimmyHoffa I will think about that. This would seem manageable, but I'll have to consider how to integrate that with the other challenges – notably, that my type hierarchy has two layers which can't be expressed with a single data declaration.
 
where Person is your 4 common attributes and Individual has constructors for each leaf
not encouraging you to use Haskell to solve your problem - just trying to talk through how you might think about solving it in Haskell - after all Haskell is more about thinking than using for everyone so far. Hopefully if we can all think about how to solve things with it more, some day we'll get to the using it step
I wish I could get a better grasp on GADTs - that may be a better solution for your situation but every time I've tried working them out I get a bit lost and it never really sticks
 
4:21 PM
@JimmyHoffa Thank you, despite its simplicity this is extremely helpful. I'll now consider porting my stuff back from C++ if it works out ;-)
 
@JimmyHoffa What would you recommend as a starter Haskell resource? No idea if I'd use it, but it's always good to learn new ways of thinking about problems.
 
@PhilLello learnyouahaskell.com is a pretty good tutorial
 
cool, will look into iy :)
 
"LYAH" (Learn you a haskell) is one of the most common - here online free, it worked for me but I've heard a lot of reports of people finding it worked less for them than "RWH" (Real World Haskell) here online free - though for a quick jump to get a vague idea before going at either of those which are rather larger - the School Of Haskell is great because it's
more tutorial oriented and - best of all - has an interactive Haskell REPL built right into the tutorials so you can run each example, edit them and run them again to see how they change
@psr found SoH the right way for him to enter formal negotiations with Haskell. He has MUMPS though so he's an outlier basically by definition.
plus FPComplete (which created and runs School of Haskell) is a great online Haskell IDE for fiddling about if you want to mess with it before committing to installing (which is very easy actually) and learning it more in depth which LYAH and RWH are more inclined towards
 
@JimmyHoffa tabletop simulator tonight?
 
4:33 PM
@Ampt plausibly.
 
@MichaelT @Ixrec
did I forget anyone who has it?
@AshleyNunn perhaps?
 
technically I don't have it yet
 
is it still on sale?
 
user55340
@Ampt I think it's through the weekend.
 
user15026
I don't have it yet either. I should fix that.
 
user55340
4:41 PM
I'm afraid I am going to repcap today because of BASIC.
 
@MichaelT awwww booohooooo
you poor thing
 
#devprobs
 
user55340
@Ampt it was a walk down nostalgia lane.
 
@MichaelT - seeing how despite being off-topic it has a positive track record, I'd rather leave it here and have it closed than delete it, and include a reference to the other question. — ddriver 1 min ago
^^^ huge thanks to all who upvoted this off-topic question
 
4:57 PM
downvoted and closed
 
user55340
@gnat +2/-2. It will be roomba eaten in 9 days.
 
psr
@JimmyHoffa I found Purescript By Example really helpful, though Purescript is a funny dialect of Haskell. It helps me somewhat to see pure compiler magic turned into a language I'm more familiar with. Plus it does a good job of explaining Haskell concepts. Though I'm not good enough at Haskell or Purescript to necessarily appreciate how good any particular resource will ultimately turn out to be.
 
@psr I thought the Purescript stuff was very well written and yeah it's a dialect but the concepts are Haskell ones - and it's explanations of them are top notch.
 
user55340
Interesting, I've always spent a lot of time in front of a screen, and always gotten migraines. I wonder if getting anti-glare on my glasses would help... will ask at next eye appointment. So I found the question and answer useful, although I suppose it would be off-topic with today's scope. — Rachel 2 hours ago
 
user55340
@Rachel ... because there is a place to ask that question from experts who know the answer and the question isn't unique to programmers (one could ask the exact same question on Gaming.SE or Graphic Design). That it was asked here is a stretch of scope even in the days of old. "... as a programmer" was always frowned upon. — MichaelT 2 mins ago
 
5:10 PM
@MichaelT +2/-4
Roomba's gonna NOM NOM NOM
 
I like this question, but I agree with close-voters that it's not a good fit for SO. I've asked here whether Programmers.SE might be a better fit. — Kyle Strand 26 secs ago
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa just set the white point on the monitor to match the lighting. 2700K lights? 2700K white point. Lucky guy with a window? 5500K. In the dark corner? 1900K.
 
5:25 PM
@MichaelT nope. Why experience more lumens than necessary? Just knock the lumens way down. Setting the white to ambient may make it seem more consistent with the environment but honestly I think it's simple intensity - amplitude, not frequency that is a bigger offender to eyes.
 
user55340
That's what you are doing kind of with the manual adjustment. But the white point makes it easier to get the color right. Then adjust brightness to match what you want.
 
also, make sure you are suitably hydrated, and do an eyelid scrub occasionally when showering
your eyes could be getting dry
 
user55340
Our eyes are hypersensitive to blue light.
 
user55340
And even though it isn't a large component of white light, it causes us to open our pupils wider. Especially an issue if the monitor doesn't match the environment.
 
user55340
 
5:33 PM
5
Q: Is it possible to move a pointer from one item to another on the stack?

Karthik KumarI had a question in an interview asking whether it was possible to use an existing pointer to point to another object on the stack reliably without directly referencing the second variable. For example: int main() { int a = 10; int b = 20; int *p = &a; } Can we get p to point to b...

 
What's it called when you repeatedly pass a list of values to a list of functions that are programmatically determined at runtime (but the determination is lifted out of the loop)? I don't think it's quite "dynamic dispatch" - it's more like a static dispatch, isn't it?
 
attempted to fix that question - I think it's interesting under the hood
 
harumf...perhaps so @MichaelT..
 
thoughts?
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa I use f.lux at home. Turn it off for specific apps that expect a different white point experience. It switches from daylight to night time for me as the sun sets. Great application.
 
5:46 PM
@MichaelT bleh
I keep going back to - it's not ambient consistency that causes issues - that's why I never bothered with f.lux everytime it's mentioned - it's entire purpose is to change things as your ambient lighting does through the day
your point about tuning the blue down makes sense, but ambient consistency is irrelevant I believe.
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa it is about matching the blue that is reflected from paper.
 
user55340
Look at that app/graph in the upper right of the page.
 
user55340
Incidentally they also have filters for different glasses.
 
user55340
fluxometer.com/rainbow/#!id=Macbook%20Pro%202009/… <-- with the glasses that were talked about.
 
@MichaelT I have 15' wall of windows about 6 feet from me. and to boot, we've got snow everywhere so it's AHHHHH BRIGHT
and yeah. flux is great
 
5:52 PM
@MichaelT but why ? Again, it's about matching ambient because that's a standard they know is normal for humans - but it stands to reason that there's a better point in the range than all the others that is most pleasant for the eyes. Why vary it away from a given frequency that is most optimal?
I think the varying thing is more marketing snake oil than anything
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa having it too dim or bright is bad. But too blue is also bad. And too red looks very funny.
 
They should just come up with an optimal point and sell that, but that sells less than "matches ambient! High technology!"
 
user55340
But optimal depends on the light.
 
@MichaelT I just completely disagree. I think it depends on your eyes, not your ambience
 
user55340
My laptop settings in local coffee shop (vintage lighting) are different than outdoors or the office room at home or the room I've got lights for work with photos.
 
5:55 PM
or at night with dim lighting
 
user55340
Glasses work by removing huge swaths of everything. And to that, they work. But proper calibration of the screen works too. And is cheaper. F.lux makes that easy.
 
user55340
(That's why sunglasses work well outside- huge swaths of the spectrum are dimmed down)
 
@MichaelT which is a proclamation of your configuration, not evidence of value for said configuration.
 
user55340
The thing is, I still can't change the color of the Day Star. But I can for my home lighting and computer screens.
 
@MichaelT turning the brightness down on a monitor does the same broad dimming across many frequencies
@MichaelT I know! But why would you? How does it benefit you to change it?
 
5:58 PM
@JimmyHoffa play with flux sometime and feel your eyes change their focus as you mess with the settings, depending on ambient light. I literally feel my eyes changing if I drastically change flux
 
user55340
Dimming the brightness doesn't change the color of white to match the lights in the room. It's still too blue.
 
@MichaelT but why should they match the lights in the room? If the lights in the room are of a blue spectrum, then it would be better not to. My point is an optimal light experience is totally unrelated to your ambient light experience. Rather, there's zero evidence whatsoever that your monitors lighting shifting with your ambient lighting is better than being fixed on a given optimal value which disregards ambient lighting.
 
Anyone know what you'd call this from a CS standpoint?
26 mins ago, by Aaron Hall
What's it called when you repeatedly pass a list of values to a list of functions that are programmatically determined at runtime (but the determination is lifted out of the loop)? I don't think it's quite "dynamic dispatch" - it's more like a static dispatch, isn't it?
 
If you can find evidence of such I'd be interested, but I've endlessly avoided f.lux because I don't want it changing over time. I get it to something comfortably and I want it to stay there. Also I get huge whiffs of marketing snake oil from this whole sale of matching-ambience-is-best when they provide zero evidence and lots of pretty marketing fluff about it instead
 
user55340
Try putting a 2700K warm white light next to a 5500K daylight bulb at home. Look at it. See if it bothers you.
 
user55340
6:01 PM
(Mid day nourishment time)
 
@MichaelT what if I make them change over time? Will they suddenly bother me less? If 2700K is optimal, why should I make it change over time instead of just choosing 2700K?
I'm not arguing that the frequency is irrelevant, I'm arguing that matching it to ambient - and changing it over time - is pointless. Frequency is likely very relevant.
matching it to something else though is just arbitrary. Match it to a bug-zapper - now it matches something! You have 2 points of reference! and .. so ? It makes no sense to care about matching it to your ambient environment.
 
I am using a marker interface in a program I just wrote.
 
@Hosch250 grab a sharpie, draw over your marker interface, and cut that shit out.
 
Essentially, I have four UI views (C# WPF) that are tabs in a settings pane.
I made a custom class to store these views in, and need to be able to store an instance of the view.
So, I figured marker interface. This is really bothering me, and I was wondering if there is already a question about when marker interfaces are OK here.
 
Never. Next.
 
6:06 PM
OK, I guess I'll just keep going and post it on CR when I'm ready.
 
a marker interface is synonymous with object
you want to reference them altogether? Reference them as object. The marker interface provides no additional value over that
 
I really have no idea on how to store this, and object isn't usually a good idea in C# (well, obviously marker interfaces aren't either).
 
@Hosch250 for the same reason
 
On the other hand, the marker interface does because it only allows a very specific subset of object.
And these views really are related, but don't share any members (yet, it may actually need to expose the DataContext later).
Actually, this Q kind of describes what I'm doing: programmers.stackexchange.com/q/152802/113093
The top two answers seem to think it is OK.
 
@AaronHall Could you explain in pseudo-code what you're doing? As I understand it: functions = [lambda a: …, lambda b: …, …]; values = [a, b, …]; for (f, x) in zip(functions, values): f(x)
 
6:12 PM
Yeah, but the list of functions is determined dynamically
sometimes the functions are bound methods, sometimes I need do something funky with the methods so I wrap them with lambdas.
This is in a tight loop, so performance is important here
 
user41796
@Hosch250 In C#, you should only use an interface to indicate shared functionality. A marker interface (or an empty interface) does nothing to help the program operate better and doesn't fulfill any sort of promise, which is what an interface really represents
 
damnit! Just logged off my computer when I meant to logoff the remote machine...blah!
 
user41796
at best, it's just a fancy comment that you're leaving on the class. And at that point, just leave a proper comment and explain what you're trying to do
 
OK, I'll try to redesign it, but I don't want the requirement too loose either.
 
@Hosch250 thx, I downvoted both of those
3
A: Is it bad practice to use an interface for categorization only?

TelastynYes, it's a bad practice in almost every language. Types are not there to encode data; they're an aid to prove that your data goes where it needs to go and behaves like it needs to behave. The only reason to sub-type is if a polymorphic behavior changes (and not always then). Since there's no ...

^^ he knows what he's talking about
 
6:16 PM
@AaronHall There are two separate concepts here: combining two lists in one operation (where the operation is function application, and the operation distributes over all values). There's probably a neat Haskell type theory term for that, but I'm not aware of it. And the other is functions-as-values, which can occasionally be interpreted in OOP terms as a “strategy pattern”.
 
So, you think I should make it an object?
 
I implemented the "strategy pattern"?
Not sure it's actually the strategy pattern.
 
@Hosch250 I don't know your situation honestly, but I never have need of marker interfaces, and you should come up with a design that doesn't need them. It's a flaw in your design if you are feeling you need them
 
I can show you on GitHub if you are interested.
 
You will find headaches caused by using marker interfaces in code bloat and dependency relationships that become impossible to model correctly
 
user41796
6:18 PM
@Hosch250 You probably need to abstract out common functionality that you expect to see from the 4 tabs. If that doesn't exist, you're going to have lots of conditional checking within your containing class in order to handle the "If Foo then this, else if Bar then that, ..."
 
@GlenH7 Actually, the containing class is just a list of data for the parent UI control.
 
@AaronHall there's a connection between functions-as-values and dynamic dispatch, as in: dynamic dispatch is usually implemented in terms of function pointers. So if we have a strategy interface and them supply various concrete strategy objects, that's a roundabout way of supplying a callback directly. Many of the classic design patterns disappear in dynamic, functional languages.
 
@AaronHall eww eww eww! Make it stop make it stop!
 
6:19 PM
I have a selected item in a listbox and bind a frame to the view contained in the SelectedItem.
 
In particular, the Strategy Pattern is a workaround of the lack of closures in old C++/Java
 
Actually, I think this is what I'll do:
 
My lambdas are closures, the rest are bound methods
 
I'll make the ViewModels implement an ISettingsViewModel exposing a SaveSettings() method.
 
@AaronHall Bound methods are closures over the bound object! There's no fundamental difference.
 
6:21 PM
Then I'll make the ISettingsView interface expose an ISettingsViewModel DataContext.
 
fair enough
 
When I need to save, I'll just iterate over all my views and save any changes.
 
@Hosch250 why do you want these things grouped together?
 
Because they are all Settings views.
 
@Hosch250 that's is, and not reason
 
6:23 PM
But I'd like to know exactly what to call what I'm doing. It sort of like an ordered dynamic dispatch
 
I think we are kind of drowning out Aaron Hall's conversation. Want to take this to the room for this project?
 
You have to have an actual benefit to you and your code to make a design decision, it shouldn't be just "these things seem together?"
@Hosch250 sure
 

 VBA Rubberducking

This chat has moved to Discord: discord.gg/MYX9RECenJ
 
@AaronHall what are you doing?
@AaronHall that function thing you mentioned sounded like simple function application..
 
I'm doing "runtime ordered dynamic dispatch"
maybe
I don't do this a lot, I prefer to use if/elif/elif etc..., but doing that unnecessarily and repeatedly in quadratic time seems foolish.
 
thx for that
 
@JimmyHoffa he's doing a kind of pairwise function application: (f1, f2, …, fn), (x1, x2, …, xn) → (f1 x1, f2 x2, … fn xn). Does this kind of operation have any monad-y name?
 
@AaronHall you mean you're failing through a list of functions - 1 after another ?
@amon he's zipping a list of functions to a list of parameters?
 
no, in the simplest case, checking a lot of conditions to determine which methods to call on an (semantic Row) object.
 
Has C++ on Windows changed much in the last 10 years, once you ignore UI fluff?
 
6:30 PM
But since my program can know the types of all the columns, I can just iterate through a list of those functions.
It's sort of an ETL operation.
brb
 
... for core I/O things?
 
@JimmyHoffa yes to this, no to "failing through a list of functions" unless you mean checking for a boolean condition.
 
6:45 PM
@AaronHall then you're just zipping some functions. Unless you've also got some kind of sequenced halt built in, at which point you've got a composition sequence with a shortcircuit
 
Yes to the former, no to the latter.
 
it's not really anything interesting or novel. Just applying a bunch of functions together. Don't look at the strategy pattern to understand anything unless it's still 1998
 
It's interesting and novel to me, but I presumed that it wasn't for others, which is why I figured that it was called something specific.
 
@AaronHall nope, no names, it's just applying some functions.
 
@gnat Damn, got deleted from in front of my eyes while I was reading "Haskell is not for websites"
 
@enderland what's so funny? 10k link? I can't read it...
 
maybe a benevolent overloard here will fix it
 
@PhilLello O_o who wrote an article saying it's not for websites?
it's got one of the single fastest web servers available; makes IIS and apache and the others look silly
 
@JimmyHoffa which one is Haskell's?
yesod?
 
7:03 PM
@Ampt warp is Haskell's web server, yesod, happstack, and snap are all application servers that run on warp. Though that benchmark is wicked old nowadays. Yesod, happstack, and snap have all changed significantly since then (it's all still running on top of the blazing fast WARP though which is a perfectly good REST server, the frameworks give page facilities like ASP stuff)
 
user41796
@Yannis - Thanks for dropping a hammer on the Website in Haskell question
 
@MichaelT Any good reason you are polishing this?
0
Q: Equivalent of #map in ruby in golang

OctI'm playing with Go and run into something I'm unable to find in Google, although there is certainly something that exists: I'm using the following struct: type Syntax struct { name string extensions *regexp.Regexp } type Scanner struct { classifier * bayesian.Classifier save_file stri...

OP asked for it to be deleted, and I've noticed you edited not only the question, but the answers as well. Is there something of value in there that I'm missing?
 
@Yannis pure unadulterated hatred is inviolable, it's value is without measure.
 
user55340
@Yannis polish it, and everything in it or delete it. Poorly formatted closed questions don't do anyone any good.
 
@Yannis it's a good Q for SO, no? Appears so to me. Perhaps @MichaelT is polishing it for migration?
 
7:06 PM
Too old to migrate
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa from two years ago.
 
@MichaelT what do you think of migration?
 
@MichaelT At the same time, no point in bumping a long forgotten closed question if it has no chance of being salvaged.
 
@Yannis imagine a better tomorrow? :/ "Too old to migrate" strikes me as dumb. I agree at least looking quality may improve it's ability not to serve as a broken window, unless we delete it.
 
user55340
But on topic or off - the post deserves to look good.
 
7:07 PM
I'm hesitant to delete that personally because...it's a good SO Q (plausibly thanks to @MichaelT's editing)
 
user55340
Unless it should be deleted.
 
@MichaelT it should be. But it should be migrated instead. You should have left it ugly and I would have delete voted it.. not so much now.
 
user55340
But raw links and thank you and other small warts - if it is on the site it sends the message that that is acceptable
 
well, guess the point is moot. Crazy Grecian.
 
oh good it's deleted now
 
7:09 PM
The OP asked for deletion, and since there's no chance its getting re-opened or migrated...
 
user55340
Fair 'nuff. Though again I hope and endeavor to make every post on the site a good example of how things are to be written.
 
@MichaelT and you guys call me crazy.
2
(fair point; sanity is a disqualifier for participation here)
 
... you ARE crazy
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa when I come across a post, I'll fix it. I try not to do too many a day.
 
@MichaelT And for that, we thank you!
 
7:15 PM
@MichaelT the smiley face is calling the dead teamster crazy, and a blue sock is thanking you. If you questioned your sanity before, those questions may be put to rest now.
5
 
user55340
@Ampt I'm only 100 edits behind Yannis for all time.
 
Hm, the editors stats would be way more interesting if only substantial edits counted.
I wonder if I'd be in the first page of all time editors if that was the case...
 
7:35 PM
I answered a Python question, not sure if it's on-topic or a dupe though
 
@AaronHall linky linky
 
0
A: Better way to check multiple variables equal a single value in Python

Aaron HallYou can do operator chaining if you only want to test for two variables that may be None: if x is None is y: In Python, operator chaining makes a op b op c the same as a op b and b op c except b is only evaluated once. You can also do all: possibly_none = (x, y, z) if all(i is None for i in ...

There's 99.99999% likelihood of a dupe target existing on SO.
 
user55340
In before @ThomasOwens 2x.
 
@JimmyHoffa I'm just so happy!!!!
@MichaelT I told a coworker about Slack today at lunch...
 
@enderland the demerits just keep racking up, your file is going to be blustering with complaints by the end of your first month!
 
7:49 PM
@enderland are you a member of the church of the subgenius?
The Church of the SubGenius is a parody religion that satirizes better known belief systems. It teaches a complex philosophy that focuses on J. R. "Bob" Dobbs, purportedly a salesman from the 1950s, who is revered as a prophet by the Church. SubGenius leaders have developed detailed narratives about Dobbs and his relationship to various gods and conspiracies. Their central deity, Jehovah 1, is accompanied by other gods drawn from ancient mythology and popular fiction. SubGenius literature describes a grand conspiracy that seeks to brainwash the world and oppress Dobbs' followers. In its narratives...
 
> The group holds that the quality of "Slack" is of utmost importance—it is never clearly defined.
 
user55340
Demarco is one of the great names in project management and tangential topics.
 
user55340
Ok one box. You win. It isn't to be.
 
7:54 PM
@MichaelT You just had to ask it nicely.
(your link was to a disambiguation page, not a product page)
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa I blame @durron597 for not fixing everything yet.
 
@MichaelT I'd say he's working on it, but he's a perfectionist; he's probably just flossing between the bits because the OCD won't let him use imperfect ones
 
user55340
Note Joel's quote there. At employer^^ I have out four copies of the book. And Deathmarch.
 
user55340
One director took the hint... Tried to make changes and was demoted to manager. Then the entire dev team got new jobs.
 
user41796
@MichaelT Any difference across the 3 editions? Or just buy the latest edition and be happy?
 
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