The Whiteboard

12:09 AM

Financial security. Job security. Security about myself as a person. Social insecurity. Insecurity about global nuclear security. Improper ninja-proofing. Not in that order.

Telastyn

@Maru - both

generally moreso on the stakeholder side.

user20683

@Maru Have you looked at the security stack exchange?

Telastyn

the biggest problem is people not thinking like an adversary.

a lot of focus on the happy path.

user20683

another big problem is treating security as a software problem

user20683

it's a people problem

user20683

12:14 AM

I work in a retail logistics environment with a fair chunk of physical security

user20683

it's mostly about figuring out people

user20683

so learning to read the users of your product is a huge advantage

Telastyn

Yes. Most hacks are done with a smile and a clipboard. And 80% of unauthorized computer accesses are internal to the network.

Maru

@WorldEngineer thanks for pointing me to security SE, i'll ask around there as well though i'd still like to get some input of other devs since they would be the audience of my talk hehe so getting input from more devs would be awesome :D

sad truth, peopleware are normally the weakest link in a rock solid security system

user20683

@Telastyn or a phone call and a calm voice

user20683

12:20 AM

an excellent example is Walt from Breaking Bad pretending to be a reporter

user20683

people like you if you're a little flustered

user20683

stumble just enough to be funny but not enough to be incompetent

Maru

though from a software dev perspective aside from peopleware, what kind of problems do you face aside from the usual PEBKAC

user20683

@Maru bad requests

user20683

never assume a request is correct

Ixrec

12:27 AM

@Maru are you still asking about security issues or do you just mean anything counterproductive that happened at work?

Maru

@Ixrec still about security issue, software specific security issues

@WorldEngineer does that include faulty validations?

user20683

@Maru yep

user20683

whitelist over blacklist

user20683

but I'm really not even the best person to be giving anything more than the most basic security advice

Ixrec

I'm probably not the best data point since I usually work on the layers that don't need to think about security much, but for me the most common security issue is that the features we support for sharing content tend to create lots of openings for users to share information they aren't legally allowed to share (our clients are financial companies)

Maru

12:33 AM

@WorldEngineer just sharing your biggest security pain point is good enough :D thanks!

user20683

@Maru my biggest? Forgetting to lock my door and being held at gunpoint in my own home.

user20683

I think there's a lesson in diligence in there somewhere.

Maru

a lot of gems to found in one's mistakes

@Ixrec so its more on access control issues

Ixrec

I know in my company's past the biggest issues were: 1) a hole in the login protocol once allowed a tech-savvy user to spoof our founder, and 2) until very recently we had no role-based privileging, which led to things like the news team being able to access client login histories (we had a big PR snafu when that got out)

so you could say all of these fall under access control

user55340

First in, last out buffer with race conditions

Ixrec

12:43 AM

@MichaelT what made that a security issue?

user55340

@Ixrec just something funny I found. Not a security issue.

Ixrec

oh it's a link, derp

user55340

If you want a security issue, then I won't mention the passwords that haven't been changed at previous employers.

Maru

hahaha cute birds

user55340

One employer had user partition NFS exported with allow setuid on it and no squash root on other machines... combined with the ability for developers with local linux desktops to have root on them.

Maru

12:45 AM

passwords, its very hard to get people to use strong ones without having them put it on a sticky note then post it on their monitors for everyone to see :|

user55340

(The combination of those three allowed me to have a setuid shell in my ~/bin)

Ixrec

I use a strong password everywhere =)

keyword: "a"

(with numbers on the end I fiddle with every time they force me to change it)

user55340

@Ixrec Current employer forces an edit distance of 4+ on the next password.

Maru

employers are now improving with their ways to thwart our efforts to make easy passwords

Ixrec

oddly enough, the most important password is also the one with a maximum length, so I had to leave off the numbers on that one

Maru

12:48 AM

@MichaelT whats the most common dev related security issue you have encountered

I find it baffling that some sites have an enforced max length for passwords while others seem to let you go crazy with your passphrase

like ms only allows 16 tops? and I have a friend whose google password is like 80 characters... I saw him try to login once and he was just typing away on his keyboard for like 30s

Ixrec

at least our service has mandatory two-factor authentication on all logins

so the max password length probably isn't that big a deal

user55340

@Maru Devs having access to production.

Maru

@Ixrec thats good to hear

@MichaelT can you give me some reasons why its bad for devs to gain access to prod? I'm currently working in a rather small dev house and we all have access to prod...

Ixrec

@MichaelT That's still common!? Sometimes I feel spoiled by how much my company gets right...

Maru

hahahaha i think this is one of those moments where "Wait? that is bad?"

user55340

12:55 AM

@Maru 6.4.2 of the PCI DSS ( pcisecuritystandards.org/documents/PCI_DSS_v3.pdf )

Ixrec

well, we always have readonly (with audit trail) access to all prod machines

but I assume MichaelT's talking about more access than that

user55340

The machines in the development environment shouldn't be able to even touch production systems.

user55340

> The intent of this requirement is to separate development and test functions from production functions. For example, a developer may use an administrator-level account with elevated privileges in the development environment, and have a separate account with user-level access to the production environment.

user55340

And then there's all of section 7 too...

user55340

> 7.1 Limit access to system components and cardholder data to only those individuals whose job requires such access.

user55340

12:57 AM

> 7.1.2 Restrict access to privileged user IDs to least privileges necessary to perform job responsibilities.

Ixrec

well, if you need convincing about why it's bad

Maru

aaaand we also get root on prod

user55340

> 7.1.3 Assign access based on individual personnel’s job classification and function.

Ixrec

let's just say a few weeks ago one of our dev machines died because someone executed a forkbomb

on production, almost all commands that change things are off-limits unless you get senior manager approval for a shell with elevated privileges, so you can't just forkbomb all our clients by accident

user55340

And I'm not about to leave that sitting in the chat transcript.

Ixrec

1:00 AM

now I understand why removal is a feature worth having

user15026

@GlenH7 I have my resume pretty much sorted, but drafting any sort of cover letter that isn't facebashing the keyboard isn't going so well

user55340

@Ixrec there are conversations that have been had that have been entire blocks of (removed) if you scroll back to them. Incidentally, you have to scroll back to them - even the removed doesn't show up in the transcript.

Maru

@MichaelT thanks for the link to PCI DSS, didn't know about it

user15026

@MichaelT Yeah, you guys are pretty good at the removal stuff

user55340

@Maru If you touch a credit card, its something that needs to be part of your daily life.

Maru

1:03 AM

we touch their entire financial info... all bank transactions and stuff :|

user55340

Oh... found a fun 10k question screen shot back in the transcript...

user55340

Maru

where has this document been all this time hahaha

user55340

@Maru its been around for awhile.

Maru

yep, kind of embarassing that this is the first time i've heard of it since i joined my current company

user55340

1:06 AM

Anyways, the PCI (Payment Card Industry) likes to keep things secure. And they force that on their vendors (anyone who takes credit cards) to varying degrees of stringency depending on how big of a company they are.

Maru

hahaha why do developers like cats hahahaha

user55340

The mom and pop... meh. They can get away with almost anything.

Ixrec

@MichaelT I like your close reason

Maru

i guess they are still quite lenient with my employer but still its no excuse to neglect security protocols

user55340

Large national retailer, they occasionally send auditors by to check to see if they should be taking 2% of the transaction fees... or 5% (if its likely they're going to get hit with a Target sized mess... it goes up)

user55340

1:08 AM

They're more worried about Target and Walmart and the like... its a CYA for when something happens and they can pull out the DSS and go through and say "nope, you didn't follow any of these, we'll pay up... but realize that the amount we're taking out to cover this in the future going through the roof... see you next year with an auditor"

user55340

And when you start looking at millions of dollars/day in transactions... 2% or 3% or 5% - those are very different numbers.

Maru

hahaha so basically stake holders only start to care about security when it could start to affect their profit margins

user55340

@Maru Is that a surprise to anyone?

user55340

The thing is, its expensive to try to audit everyone who takes a credit card. You check the big ones more often than the small ones - its about balancing risk. And the ones that have a bad history, you charge more fees to cover that risk.

Maru

now that you mention it... managing security risks seem like a great topic as well

thanks @MichaelT @Ixrec

I'll try coming up with a better topic for now

user55340

1:30 AM

Lets see how well this question flies over yonder...

user55340

0

Q: How to quantify first player advantage?

In playing a two player variant of sheepshead, the group I play with decided that it wasn't that much fun. So I simplified it, and taught it to my niece (5 years old) as a start to learning about trick taking games. The game goes like this: Deck of 4 suits, 2-9 (32 cards) Deal out a 4x4 grid f...

user55340

@ThomasOwens Collection of Boston Marathon signs

user114359

2:35 AM

@MichaelT see my comment to your question. I think you can answer this yourself. That being said, I have lurked over there a bit and my guess is your question will likely not be answered in any meaningful way.

user55340

@Snowman Its one of those "lets see how that site handles it" - it might have some lurking game designer who wants to answer it (rather than rules lawyers - perfectly valid and useful thing too, just want to see who else is there).

user55340

And "Tricky War" as I call it is one my niece appeared to like... and my parents too (classic War is a far too long game - Tricky War lasts 16 tricks)

user55340

Some of the things to look into the game itself is "how much is it determined by good play? by first player advantage? by cards dealt?"

user114359

That is a good way of putting it: gamer designer v. rules lawyer.

user114359

I actually just got back into playing Magic with my children after an almost 20 year break, and I am definitely taking a more algorithmic approach to the game.

user55340

2:41 AM

RPG.SE shows that dichotomy too - the rule lawyers being the majority of the site there too (very little about game design - though a reasonable bit of design within the game)

user114359

RPG and SciFi are two of my favorites that I have only lurked on

user55340

I've commented on RPG a bit - though they are very active in removing comments there.

user114359

Half the stuff I have no idea about, I just find some of the games fascinating because they really are rich in story but interactive. Probably why I prefer gaming to TV.

user15026

@Snowman I like SciFi because of the detail you see in a lot of answers

user114359

In all fairness, some of those comments are the textbook example of "take it to chat"

user55340

2:43 AM

(I had a +20 comment there deleted the other day...

user114359

One reason I don't (can't) answer at those two sites is they basically require in-depth citations. Look at answers without them and they are minus infinity and deleted.

user55340

One person answered, gave the excuse he couldn't do a good job answering because he doesn't have his PHB at work. Another answer give the info about what wizards can do without their spell book.

user114359

I don't have time to dig around in my Tolkien or whatever books to find quotes.

user15026

@Snowman I think the only things I would have answered on SciFi would be anything that got ported from Lit.SE when it died, and I don't think there are any of those

user55340

> If you lose your spellbook, you can use the [procedure in the preceeding paragraph] to transcribe the spells that you have prepared into a new spellbook. Filling out the remainder of your spellbook requires you to find new spells to do so, as normal. For this reason, many wizards keep backup spellbooks in a safe place.

user114359

2:44 AM

@MichaelT In other words, being a wizard is like a datacenter: multiple redundant backups.

user55340

And then I commented "If you forget your PHB at home, you can use this opportunity to transcribe the rules you have memorized into a new PHB. ... For this reason, many gamers keep backup manuals at work."

user20683

or just use d20srd.org

user20683

or the newer equivalents

user55340

The comment got to +20... its been deleted since then. I just found it amusing and do realize the ephemeral nature of comments.

user114359

@AshleyNunn The literature I find most interesting is sci fi and some fantasy (e.g. Tolkien) anyway

user55340

2:46 AM

This is still around on Sci-Fi:

user55340

@Richard so you're like the Jon Skeet of Sci-Fi then. — MichaelT Apr 4 at 1:53

user15026

@Snowman Fair enough. I liked the literature site as a thing, but like libraries, it didn't gain whatever critical mass it needed or whatever

user55340

Context:

user55340

51

A: How many people know that Harry owns an Invisibility Cloak?

The following people are present when Harry puts on or takes off his Cloak, or are present when someone specifically makes reference to his possession of an invisibility cloak. I have attempted to preserve the order in which we (the reader) learn of their awareness: Harry Potter and the Philosop...

user114359

@MichaelT that is epic, because Richard really is the Jon Skeet of Sci-Fi.

user55340

2:47 AM

@Richard Are you in need of full time employment? — TGnat Apr 3 at 16:52

user55340

@TGnat - 'tis a public holiday here in the UK. — Richard ♦ Apr 3 at 17:15

user55340

World building is a strange place.

user114359

Speaking of quotes, I just found this one on Slashdot: "Statistics are like a bikini: what they reveal is suggestive but what they hide is vital."

user15026

I find their comment keeping process weird on SciFi, because they have a string of them on my question asking about Garibaldi on B5 that I would have deleted, but it is still there

user55340

7

A: Can I make a movable medieval city?

I'm a fan of tumbleweed tiny houses - they're neat. And while the tiny house isn't directly applicable its not that far off. A house is made up of a number of rooms. Each room is built on a wagon (we're not talking spacious, but adequate). Multiple rooms are then fastened together (wooden pins)...

user55340

2:49 AM

@AshleyNunn Sci-Fi appears to be quite preservationist when it comes to comments - the other end of the spectrum from RPG.

user55340

As long as it doesn't need to go to chat, it appears to be fine in comments there.

user114359

WorldBuilding is a very interesting SE site because of all the weird but interesting stuff, and pretty much anything is on-topic.

user55340

7

A: Can I make a movable medieval city?

I'm a fan of tumbleweed tiny houses - they're neat. And while the tiny house isn't directly applicable its not that far off. A house is made up of a number of rooms. Each room is built on a wagon (we're not talking spacious, but adequate). Multiple rooms are then fastened together (wooden pins)...

user55340

@jamesqf that's why I've got a rotating set of the best shirt ever - just in case I get sent back in time. Of course, an engraved credit card form factor with magnifier would work better... but, hey t-shirts are fun. — MichaelT Mar 31 at 21:32

user55340

Silver "medical" products also have a hilarious side effect, Argyria. — Snowman Apr 1 at 14:32

user55340

2:53 AM

btw, @Snowman ever read the Ring of Fire books? 1632 and the like?

user55340

1632 series

The 1632 series, also known as the 1632-verse or Ring of Fire series, is an alternate history book series and sub-series created, primarily co-written, and coordinated by Eric Flint and published by Baen Books. The series is set in 17th-century Europe, in which the small fictional town of Grantville, West Virginia, in the year 2000 was sent to the past in central Germany in the year 1631, during the Thirty Years' War. As of 2015, the series has five published novels propelling the main plot and over ten published novels moving several subplots and threads forward. The series also includes fan-written...

user114359

@MichaelT Nope. Sounds interesting in the way that a Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court was though.

user55340

Except its an entire town.

user55340

Also, west virginia is a coal mining town... complete with (union) coal miners and a coal power plant.

user55340

> Grantville, led by Mike Stearns, president of the local chapter of the United Mine Workers of America (UMWA), must cope with the town's space-time dislocation, the surrounding raging war, language barriers, and numerous social and political issues, including class conflict, witchcraft, feminism, the reformation and the counter-reformation, among many other factors. One complication is a compounding of the food shortage when the town is flooded by refugees from the war.

user114359

2:58 AM

So much drama.

user114359

-6

Q: Putting soft questions on hold unproductive?

I understand you want questions that can be answered definitively, that's the point of a stack. But given how many sappy personal advice questions you're getting, maybe it's time to create a support group to redirect them to, or maybe find an existing one, because just putting these questions on ...

discussion off-topic

user114359

I want to say that the only support group I would approve of for people asking those questions is /dev/null

user55340

Took awhile, but I think he got there...

user55340

@MichaelT I understand now, thanks — Alexei Averchenko 8 hours ago

user114359

Meh, I might as well try it out for $8 and prime.

user114359

3:00 AM

smile.amazon.com/1632-Ring-Fire-Eric-Flint/dp/0671319728

user55340

@Snowman baenebooks.com/10.1125/Baen/0671578499/0671578499.htm?blurb

user55340

(alternate downloads from publisher: baenebooks.com/p-379-1632.aspx )

user55340

> Ebook Price: $0.00
Baen Free Library Book

user114359

I'll have to check that out. I already have a queue of books I am reading

user55340

Baen Free Library

user114359

3:03 AM

I actually bought the federalist papers and anti-federalist papers with the intention of reading them, then found out they are collectively well over a thousand pages of very dense text.

user15026

@MichaelT The Baen free library makes me haooy

user55340

The Wizardry Compiled series used to be in that list.

user55340

> It all began when the wizards of the White League were under attack by their opponents of the Black League and one of their most powerful members cast a spell to bring forth a mighty wizard to aid their cause. What the spell delivered was master hacker Walter Wiz Zumwalt. The wizard who cast the spell was dead and nobody— not the elves, not the dwarves, not even the dragons—could figure out what the shanghaied computer nerd was good for.

But spells are a lot like computer programs, and, in spite of the Wiz's unprepossessing appearance, he was going to defeat the all-powerful Black League…

user55340

Rick Cook

Rick Cook (born 1944) is a light fantasy author from the United States, best known for his Wizardry series of books. His writing includes many jokes that are hard to appreciate without having a background in systems-level programming, though the books themselves can easily be enjoyed by readers without such a background. == Published works == === Novels === ==== Wizardry series ==== What "Wiz" Zumwalt could do with computers was magic on Earth. Then, one day the master computer hacker is called to a different world to help fight an evil known as the "Dark League". Suddenly, the "Wiz" ...

user55340

@Snowman have you heard me rave about the Trader's Tales series?

user55340

3:07 AM

The entire series is available on free podcast read by the author (and he can read well): podiobooks.com/title/trader-tales-1-quarter-share

user55340

Another series to look up - the Spellwright series by Blake Charlton: goodreads.com/author/show/1916427.Blake_Charlton

user114359

@MichaelT no

user55340

His story is rather uplifting too (and part of his hero's nature): blakecharlton.com/bio/from-special-ed-to-stanford-med

user55340

> As a child, severe dyslexia placed me in special education for most of elementary school. Only with the support of my saintly parents did I improve enough to be mainstreamed into a normal fourth-grade classroom. I was still pulled out for remediation in half of the classes. Each year, I just barely advanced to the next grade. At twelve years old, I still couldn’t read a book by myself. To encourage a love of literature, my parents read to me every night. It wasn’t working. I preferred the football field or basketball court where my disability didn’t show.

user55340

From sever dyslexia to finding enjoyment in fantasy to Yale and Stanford medical school.

user55340

3:15 AM

@Snowman 6 books, first is a coming of age trilogy, second is a finding place in the universe trilogy as an adult (with more adult themes).

user55340

> In a universe run by corporations, where profit matters more than life, how can an orphan with no skills, no money, and no prospects survive? When Ishmael Wang's mother dies in a senseless accident, he's given a choice. Leave the planet on his own or the company will remove him. To avoid deportation, Ishmael finds work as a mess deck attendant on an interstellar freighter.

user114359

I'll have to check that out, sounds interesting

user55340

As I said, its all freely available from the author on podcast.

user114359

And right now I'm about to fall asleep in my chair due to around 3 hours of sleep the past two nights

user114359

But I did bookmark the wikipedia page, I'll find the podcasts from his name

user114359

3:18 AM

although right now I am reading another book, it'll have to wait until after I am done with it

user114359

I alternate fiction and nonfiction. I'm due for a good story soon.

user55340

See, with podcasts you can listen to them as you fall asleep...

user114359

Bah, I actually pay attention to what I read or watch

user114359

Now my wife will fall asleep to anything, which is why it took her about 10 months to listen to Harry Potter on audio

user114359

Also why any movie we watch takes 2-3 times through with her

user114359

3:21 AM

When we watched the Bond 50 boxed set? Everything up to Skyfall? I got to watch the whole thing twice.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman you sure it's not because the writing is at a 3rd grade level? I don't understand how people can read that stuff, it feels like trying to read the fox and the box all over again

user55340

> “Then he stopped and frowned. "But that's only half of it. We'll have to recruit them and that's not going to be easy. You need the people fast, right?"
Moira nodded.
"You also need them good. They're going to have to pick up on a new language and a whole new operating environment and charge right into work. This is not gonna be a job for BASIC bozos or COBOL drones."
Moira nodded vigorously. She didn't know what BASIC or COBOL were, except that Wiz said they caused brain damage in those who used them.”

user15026

@JimmyHoffa I liked Harry Potter 1-4 for that reason, because I was like in 6th grade or something at the time, but after that I got bored and the books changed so drastically in tone that I wasn't into them

user15026

@MichaelT I am intrigued

user55340

@AshleyNunn its a fun series.

user15026

3:35 AM

It does sound it :)

user15026

I am reading the His Dark Materials series for the first time right now

StackMonkey

4:13 AM

There's an argument this goes on programmers.SE btw. — djechlin 18 secs ago

StackMonkey

9:41 AM

I guess this question would be better received on programmers.stackexchange.com. Good luck! — Drew Noakes 22 secs ago

StackMonkey

12:45 PM

I think your question should be moved to programmers.stackexchange.com — Kaiido 14 secs ago

maple_shaft

That moment when your team of D grade developers used to working in SVN hate your friggin guts because you convinced them to try out Git and every day is a complete disaster of failed merges, blown away code, and being the teams code janitor

I found out that people are rebelling and they resorted to sending zip files of their code changes to each other and coordinating manual error prone merges and then trying to hide this fact from me

MetaFight

that's just immature.

how old are they?

maple_shaft

Under 40, over 30

MetaFight

wow

maple_shaft

this one woman on my team is a nightmare

enderland

12:54 PM

I should work for your company

haha

maple_shaft

she is incapable of figuring anything out on her own

ratchet freak

create a SVN shell for her to work on

svn and git can be front-ends for each other

maple_shaft

she gets latest code and something slightly doesnt work right she stops everything and whines until the author comes to help her

uggh

MetaFight

@maple_shaft I worked with a developer like that. Unfortunately, she kept getting hired because she was very attractive. So, due to no fault of her own, she kept being put in situations that she couldn't handle. And there was no shortage of guys trying to act the hero.

It was a very unfortunate situation for her. She wasn't given a chance to grow.

maple_shaft

like omg... I worked on a template to demonstrate usinng Spring Profiles to bring in environment specific properties into your project. I told her, IT IS A TEMPLATE PROJECT. USE IT AS A GUIDE

enderland

12:57 PM

You can often grow a lot in situations you are marginally qualified for (or get fired)

maple_shaft

what does she do? She copy and pastes the whole thing into her code and whines because it doesnt compile

then she tells my boss I am not helpful and that I didn't do what was expected of me on this task

my task wasnt to do her friggin code

MetaFight

@enderland agreed, but in this case she was in WAY over her head, and all the guys around her tried to hide it so they could spend time with her.

maple_shaft

@MetaFight Well my situation is slightly different. This woman looks like she was hit in the face by a bus

MetaFight

@maple_shaft I've been there. I just hope your boss knows she's full of it.

maple_shaft

Actually she was hit by a car and had surgery on her face...

MetaFight

12:59 PM

@maple_shaft some people happen to like that look.

maple_shaft

seen a picture of her before the accident though

she went from a 4/10 to a 2/10

MetaFight

I'm not sure this venting is constructive anymore :|

maple_shaft

@MetaFight Doesnt matter, Closing as Not Constructive is no longer an option ;)

enderland

You should tell them that if they had a CI build then she wouldn't have broken builds

;)

maple_shaft

@enderland She really doesn't break builds

She just breaks her workspace and then whines for people to help her

enderland

1:01 PM

No I mean the "it won't build on my machine" thing

"it built on the CI server, figure it out"

maple_shaft

waiting for her to figure it out

crap late for standup

later

durron597

@MetaFight I worked with a developer just like that. She had a sexy russian accent... and when you asked her to restart a computer, she turned the monitor off and on

Robert Harvey

1:27 PM

Software Architect - Java - $30/hr

Crossover

javaspringhibernatelinux

Ready to make $60,000 USD while working for a fortune 500 company from the comfort of your home? Eager to join a…

Posted on Stack Overflow Careers on April 21, 2015

Telastyn

wtf?

Robert Harvey

It gets better.

Software Architect - C# - $30/hr

Crossover

restnosqllinuxdevops

Ready to make $60,000 USD while working for a fortune 500 company from the comfort of your home? Eager to join a…

Posted on Stack Overflow Careers on April 21, 2015

Telastyn

Work for Crossover, and you’ll earn the most competitive wages on the market hah!

Robert Harvey

Same job posting, except C# instead of Java.

Telastyn

in Austin no less.

Robert Harvey

1:31 PM

I probably shouldn't have, but I sent them a message. "The wage you're offering is two standard deviations below the norm for the experience you're asking. How did you arrive at that figure?"

3

Telastyn

indeed.com/salary/q-Software-Architect-l-Austin,-TX.html

Thomas Owens

As a developer in the defense industry (which tends to have lower salaries), I make more than that architect position. WTF.

I couldn't afford to move to Cambridge on that salary.

Telastyn

I haven't made that little since my first devjob - and that was when I had no degree and no professional experience and had been unemployed for 18 months.

in a cheaper locale.

MetaFight

I work in F1. Salaries are typically lower than average. The previous team I worked at has finally hit rock bottom. They're currently trying to hire two "senior devs" to do all the dev work, QA work, BA work, architecture, release management, and dev management on new projects and the dozen or so legacy projects. The department used to have about 12 full time devs. The new position salaries are barely Jr dev salaries.

Oh, and the job is in the middle of the country-side and takes over an hour to drive there from the nearest city. They expect the "allure" of F1 to attract competent developers.

ha

Robert Harvey

@MetaFight That sounds eerily like the situation at my last job.

MetaFight

1:38 PM

@RobertHarvey which industry?

Robert Harvey

Aerospace.

Several people left before the contract changeover. The ones that stayed took a significant haircut.

Ampt

HELLO PROGRAMMERS!

So thrilled to be here tonight!

MetaFight

Now, the previous setup they had didn't work either. They had a bunch of overpaid incompetent contractors managed by somebody who didn't know the first thing about software development. Ditching them and hiring full time devs to own the process is not a bad idea... they just need to make the job more enticing: Let people work remotely, or move the dev office to the nearest city. Offer competitive wages. If they did that I'd consider returning.

Ampt

> The Type of C# Software Architects We’re Looking For:
Bloody Idiots

Telastyn

the only way I would consider returning to my last company is if they fired the entire department (except for 2 guys) and gave me free reign to do as I saw best.

and a hefty raise.

MetaFight

1:42 PM

@Telastyn I've dreamt of that scenario :)

Ampt

@MetaFight Like.. F1 race cars?

Telastyn

yeah. The work wasn't the problem there as much as the people.

user55340

@ThomasOwens @RobertHarvey as a developer in state government in the Midwest, I make more than that. That is a strange number.

Ampt

@MetaFight Welcome to The Whiteboard, where the topics are made up and the stars don't matter!

2

enderland

60k for architect? lolz

MetaFight

1:56 PM

@Ampt yup. Race cars.

it turns out that throwing obscene amounts of money at the problem (how to plan and execute a project) doesn't make a difference.

Robert Harvey

F1 race cars have a telemetry system that is very similar to the one used at AFRC. 1000 data points sampled at 100 hz, IIRC.

MetaFight

I work in the wind tunnel and that's more or less what we have now.

I imagine what they have on track is similar.

durron597

But @RobertHarvey, you can work from home! Isn't that grand?

Robert Harvey

[sigh]

They seem a bit too opportunistic for my taste.

Ampt

@MetaFight That's dissapointing to hear - I always thought the tech they used was so friggin cool and imagined it would be neat to work on some of that cutting edge stuff

just confirms my suspicion that they took the fun out of it in the 90s when they killed the crazy adaptive suspension systems for "safety"

@RobertHarvey s/opportunistic/cheap/g

ugh, someone at work is having a kid so they sent out an "OOO due to labor" email to let everyone know they would be out

so now everyones first thought is "Better hit reply all and congratulate them!"

-.-

Robert Harvey

2:10 PM

It looks like they're a recruiting firm of some sort. I think the job posting is just a feeder ad.

user55340

Hmm. Would be interesting to run reading level analysis on P.SE posts.

Robert Harvey

Top 20% of talent at any pay band could be working for you. Best people, guaranteed productivity, secure

@MichaelT They already do that on SO. That's how they're able to block the lowest quality questions from being posted.

durron597

@RobertHarvey It's too bad so many people use i as a variable name. I wish SO could figure out a way to automatically capitalize people's i need some help please i've been staring at this for hours and i'm really tired

user41796

@durron597 i, j, k are your friend though.

durron597

Or, you know, just delete that entire sentence :)

ratchet freak

2:20 PM

i followed by a ' should be capitalized i inside code block shouldn't

Robert Harvey

I've been seeing a lot fewer questions like that on SO lately. I think SO may have raised that particular threshold

ratchet freak

or quicker editors on the case

Robert Harvey