The Whiteboard

@maple_shaft Do people often take craps in the streets of Pittsburgh?

@MichaelT good rant

user55340

12:55 AM

@psr It was one of those WTF moments we had in a meeting when we realized what they were trying to set us up for... "you really don't understand what a unit test is and that its useful to us and seeing passing tests there should make a CIO feel any happier about the software - because we won't even check in code that breaks."

goals are dumb.

user55340

Goals at Employer^^ where dumb^2.

yeah, some employers multiply the dumb.

1:28 AM

@durron597 Did you mean to lift 35 lbs? Or something else?

2:03 AM

@psr I'm a moderator on The Workplace and yet am still completely disillusioned about those sorts of things internally ;)

2:25 AM

@psr Yes.

@BlackICE linq and lambdas are a far cry from defining "functional programming". Functional programming involves type systems more often than not because when you start recognizing functions as types rather than just objects/classes/records as types, you end up with a whole lot of new abilities and techniques. LINQ and Lambda expressions (or the list monad and higher order functions) are just two specific resultant techniques, of which there are many more. — Jimmy Hoffa 20 secs ago

pfah someone trying to close a question about fp readability as a dupe of LINQ and lambda expressions. People really have such a narrow view of what FP is, there is so much more than what 95% of people ever see because 95% of people never look closely.

The modern perspective on FP is like the perspective on germs in the 1500s, they've never seen it so you're making it up (I have no idea what people thought of germs in the 1500s...was this even a concept? Fuck who knows.)

deostroll

6:11 AM

Hi Can we do iOS mobile app development from other OS platforms?

2:00 PM

@MichaelT did you mean a literal dunce cap?

I read it to mean a literal dunce cap.

most places I've worked had one for the guy who broke the build.

feh. "Factory method" instead of specializing a base type. Two separate tools for separate uses.

damned pattern hammer voters.

user55340

2:23 PM

@durron597 yep.

user55340

@deostroll if you use a language and took other than swift / objective c & Xcode. There are some out there, but they are always behind on the latest iOS feature set.

2:41 PM

Ah, I love working from home. Just sat down in the recliner, turned on M*A*S*H and am having my morning cup of coffee

I'll be doing the same thing next week. Except with Adventure Time instead of MAS*H.

@Ampt ~~working from home~~ taking the day off to watch television

lol formatting

@MetaFight \ escapes :)

\\mybutt

2:45 PM

@durron597 tomato tomato!

@Ampt Let's call the whole thing off

@Ampt that expression doesn't have the same effect in written form.

Jude Niroshan

hi everyone, i am struggling with drawing ER diagrams in my college stuff.... where can i get help?

your professor/TA

whichever may apply!

Jude Niroshan

I have some few questions, but i don't have answers.to those I don't have time to go to my professor... i'm looking for online help

user55340

2:52 PM

You do realize that our answers may be wrong for the material. In the real world, pragmatic is more important than ideals.

user55340

That said, ask.

3:09 PM

enderland is working in the office

someone's gotta do it

@enderland Like the TV show?

@durron597 Hah, nah

3:26 PM

I believe our office has 4 people actually in it and like 10 WFH

3:39 PM

I wonder how many internal job applications I can have at once...

user41796

@enderland 42

@GlenH7 Ha

user41796

Or you can limit that based upon your own ability to juggle applications you've put in. There is a measure of effort involved in keeping up with those applicatins.

user41796

But realistically speaking, if you're reasonably qualified for something then you ought to apply for it. Point out that your rotations will come to a close soon and you need to convert to permanent.

Yeah my manager basically told me to go for it

user41796

3:48 PM

And in a large corp, it can take several months for the hiring process to complete. You don't want to be left out when the song ends.

Yeah no kidding, I'm 100% distrusting of any and all processes at this point until I get an actual official offer

user41796

Yep, it's a safe and sane approach to things

Wait wait wait wait

@enderland You were hired on a department rotation basis from the beginning?

My WTF in the direction of your previous boss just skyrocketed

@GlenH7 "Point out that your rotations will come to a close soon and you need to convert to permanent." What did you mean by rotations then?

You mentioned the other day that your new boss also knows you're not long for his department

Now I'm very confused

@enderland Right, so I was correct (why did you say "no"?)

ooh

XD

And my skyrocketing WTF towards your previous boss stands

user41796

3:57 PM

@enderland You know it's love if they'll pay to ~~use~~ have you.

user41796

@durron597 as well it should

It's one thing if (under my previous impression) you're working for a team and your boss finds out, say, one month before you rotate that you're going to be transferred

@durron597 no it was clear from day 1 I was not going to be on the project long term

But it's quite another to know "okay, I'm getting this temporary person to help out for 6 months. but i'm just going to ignore that known departure element until after he leaves"

wow. just... wow

yes

now you know why I have ZERO sympathy at this point

4:05 PM

how long did you work for previous boss?

almost a year

but that department can't be bothered to pay for you full time

thankfully. :)

now i know why it's such an outrage to the other departments when previous boss asks for a little of your time

"Yo, can we get some of dat work fo free?"

4:07 PM

i suspect he's bleeding red ink and is trying to cut costs any way he can

There's all sotrts of fail

@enderland lets just start our own company. We can hire @RobertHarvey to do all the real work while we shuffle papers and watch netflix. You in?

tell corporate that you know what's wrong with that department and you can fix it if they give you previous boss's job and salary

@Ampt sure, I can be the technical BA person

I'll be the BS person

I'm well qualified

4:09 PM

Dude quit posting our confidential business plans on the internet!

4:24 PM

@Ampt Been there, done that.

so you're saying your experienced and willing, right?

Actually, I've been fortunate to be surrounded by some pretty smart, hard working people in my career.

I think I owe @durron597 an apology for insulting his area of residence, but there's a story behind that.

I was waiting for my next assignment in the military in the '80. When you go overseas, you usually get your next assignment stateside. I was expecting to get stationed in San Diego, or somewhere on the west coast. They assigned me to Minot, ND.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Did you ever figure out who you made mad?

That came later, I think. (long story, involving stop signs and base gates).

user114359

@RobertHarvey I didn't know you were in the USAF

4:30 PM

Yeah, that was a long time ago, when I was still young and stupid.

user114359

I spent a few years in the USAF too, never had the pleasure of being at Minot and its 12 feet of snow every winter.

Your handle notwithstanding.

~~relevant~~ nonreelvant username

user114359

yeah yeah I know

user114359

Thule Air Base

Thule Air Base or Thule Air Base/Pituffik Airport (IATA: THU, ICAO: BGTL), is the United States Air Force's northernmost base, located 1,207 km (750 mi) north of the Arctic Circle and 1,524 km (947 mi) from the North Pole on the northwest side of the island of Greenland. It is approximately 885 km (550 mi) east of the North Magnetic Pole. == Overview == Thule Air Base is the U.S. Armed Forces' northernmost installation, located 750 miles north of the Arctic Circle. Thule's arctic environment includes icebergs in North Star Bay, a polar ice sheet, and Wolstenholme Fjord — the only place on Earth...

user114359

4:34 PM

At least I never had the pleasure of going there at night time. Winter. Same thing above the Arctic Circle

Employer^^ is apparently still sore at me for not accepting his incredibly generous offer.

$65K the first year, $75K the second year with overtime to bring it up to $85K.

heh

user41796

@RobertHarvey The Chinese have a very nice concept in answering that one with "Thank you, but I cannot accept that gift."

My wife and I discussed it at length, but I finally decided to decline when she said that she never saw me during tax season. She said I might as well have lived in another state during those months.

Accepting an offer like that is dangerous. "How much did you make at your last job? 65K. WAT?"

It's not worth it. She reminded me how much conflict there was working there.

user41796

High stress and low pay? Where do I sign up?

4:42 PM

@GlenH7 anywhere in our industry.

:)

Believe it or not, sailing the high seas in a storm with a constantly leaking boat has its charms.

It was challenging, that's for sure.

@RobertHarvey Texas? Or North Dakota? (I live in Texas)

And the owner takes the brunt of the stress, because it's his business. It's not a surprise, really, that he turned out a bit demented.

@durron597 ND. What's there?

@RobertHarvey " for insulting his area of residence" I've never even been to ND

What incredible opportunity would make me move to ND?

4:45 PM

You were apologizing for insulting my area of residence but then you proceeded to talk about a state I've never been to

Hold on a minute...

@RobertHarvey Lifting 35 lbs at the oil fields. Ask @MichaelT

Q: how to insert a column values dynamically

Ah, OK. I was right the first time.

Probably more like 55lb, though.

user114359

How many problems can you find with this question:

user114359

-2

I have an array that contains some values.Taking these values ,I tried inserting into a column of a table dynamically,But could not succeed yet.I am using mvc technology in .Net.

user41796

4:48 PM

@Snowman I fixed one of them by giving it the 5th VTC

I am finding out that you have to be very careful about what you say and how you approach people in the job search. They seem very... I don't know, humorless. You say something even slightly to the left or to the right of center line, and you never hear from them again.

user41796

@RobertHarvey ? more context?

@RobertHarvey it sucks especially because tech companies can range from extremely liberal to right wing conservatives

I suppose all companies can

@RobertHarvey You mean politics?

@RobertHarvey have you decided to go the way of that fellow who moved to the middle of Alaska with nothing but some tools and lived pastorally for like the last 2 decades of his life?

4:51 PM

@MichaelT Now I'm starting to have my suspicions about the magic wizard hat my coworkers keep leaving on my desk.

It's just the sense that I have. There are several people who've contacted me based on the strength of my Stack Overflow profile. They're the ones that have the Google-like office spaces, and the big chessboard on the floor of the second story balcony. It seems as if they want you to be perfect.

@JimmyHoffa that show, and that dude in particular, are weird

@psr everytime I go debug a .NET memory dump one of my coworkers does call me a wizard for the next week..

user41796

@psr Every team has some sort of item. Pity they didn't explain the rules to you...

@RobertHarvey code blindfolded with both hands behind your back perfect

4:52 PM

@Ampt show ? I saw his real personal film on PBS years ago, but know nothing of a show

@Ampt Yes, that kind of perfect.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Oh! The purple squirrel hunters.

ah, I thought you were talking about one of those history shows about those people living out in the boonies of alaska

hiring processes are little more than voodoo

He filmed himself building his cabin, doing some fishing, and whenever bears and such popped around

4:53 PM

@JimmyHoffa discovery channel like showing people freezing their *** off in alaska for some reason

user114359

No person is perfect, no job is perfect. Question is are you okay with the imperfections? Or will they drive you crazy?

super-8 back in the 70s or whenever, it was awesome

@JimmyHoffa More like the Honduras for a few years, but that has some appeal, yes.

Richard Proenneke

Richard Louis "Dick" Proenneke (May 4, 1916 – April 20, 2003) was an amateur naturalist who lived alone for nearly thirty years in the mountains of Alaska in a log cabin he had constructed by hand near the shore of Twin Lakes. Proenneke hunted, fished, raised and gathered his own food, and also had supplies flown in occasionally. He documented his activities in journals and on film, and also recorded valuable meteorological and natural data. The journals and film were later used by others to write books and produce documentaries about his time in the wilderness. == Life == Proenneke's fat...

... ? I can get a can of spray paint - but wth are you hiring a purplse squirrel for? Don't you just capture things like that, not hire them?

And people wonder why people hate applying for jobs

4:56 PM

ugh, I that that's just an acceptable thing to do. Ask for 5 years experience in a 3 year old technology, but be willing to hire someone with 2

if you want someone with 2, ask for someone with 2.

be reasonable with your pay

it's not rocket science

user41796

Purple squirrel

Purple squirrel is a term used by employment recruiters to describe a job candidate with precisely the right education, experience, and qualifications that perfectly fits a job’s multifaceted requirements. In theory, this prized “purple squirrel” could immediately handle all the expansive variety of responsibilities of a job description with no training and would allow businesses to function with fewer workers. In 2012, then-Google recruiter Michael B Junge published a popular job search and career book Purple Squirrel: Stand Out, Land Interviews, and Master the Modern Job Market. == Origin... ==

never heard the term. Makes sense

@Ampt that's the problem, people who know nothing of tech can't tell the difference between what we do and rocket surgery

I'm surprised anyone has ever used the term unironically.

and those are the people who do most the hiring

just makes me have less faith in humanity.

4:58 PM

@GlenH7 some companies make a potential employee a purple squirrel by adjusting the requirements and then just go through the motions of applications

All of us just need to go become hiring managers! ;)

but then we don't get to code....

@GlenH7 That's a good business plan. "I'm just hoping for the best."

user114359

I get to be a manager and code.

BANK: Can I see your business plan?
BO: I'm just hoping for the best.

4:59 PM

@Snowman my boss does this....we all really wish he wouldn't...

at my last job I got the final say on people on my team, but I wasn't the one finding or culling resumes.

if you have a ton of cash to burn you don't need a bank

he's even good at both roles, it just turns out you can only do both of them halfway when you don't devote full time to either one

yeh

If you manage coders, you really at least ought to know how to code. Otherwise, you have no idea what you're dealing with.

5:00 PM

@GlenH7 quit deleting crap :P

> For actual squirrels, see Purple squirrel (animal).

or give everyone room ownership

user114359

@JimmyHoffa I think it is kind of unique to my employer the way they dole out management roles, I do both, am good at both, but have time for neither.

user41796

@Ampt It's all about signal:noise

@ratchetfreak he's just lamenting about the guy looking for someone who doesn't exist. It's not even that bad :P

@GlenH7 this is chat. there is no concern for signal:noise :)

5:01 PM

I did a good job at both at my last job, but they also needed me to do 2 other jobs.

I tried to keep the number of required technologies low and put everything else in the "this would be a plus" column in our job postings

> This article is about a supposed animal of purple coloration. For the elusive candidate in Human Resources, see Purple squirrel.

Droll Wikipedia humor.

it helps that I code way faster than mere mortals.

@JimmyHoffa Oops, I meant two headed purple squirrel

user114359

@Telastyn you can crank out bugs faster than anyone else, eh?

user55340

5:03 PM

@RobertHarvey @durron597 many union jobs have bits in there for work quality and injury avoidance preventing them from lifting more than about 35lbs.

user41796

@psr With experience in chewing on mahogany

http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/239158/i-am-making-4-5x-more-story-points-than-average-but-producing-bugs-at-half-the
yes I do

Family Guy S11E20 Crickets Scene

@Snowman That's why they call @Telastyn "the Hive Queen"

►

The best part about the purple squirrel job postings is when they complain later that all the applicants that come in seem to be totally unqualified and completely ignoring the posted requirements (perhaps you shouldn't have specifically filtered out everyone else then...)

user41796

@psr ding! Kind of drives me nuts hearing that part later on

user114359

5:09 PM

In my experience, purple squirrel job postings are used to justify H1Bs. See? Nobody can fill it, we need to hire a foreigner who also does not have the skills, but for $20k less.

there is plenty of that.

and the whole self evaluation that comes with trying to match those criteria is subject to the Dunning–Kruger effect

2

@Snowman yeah.... this is really obvious to me on internal job postings, sometimes it's like "hey candidate X has these 9 experiences, lets list them all so we can disqualify everyone else"

user114359

@enderland but at least then when the chosen one gets the job, they can say "at least we offered it to everyone" despite already having hand-picked the candidate.

[Writes cover letter telling the company how great their widgets are, and how he has always wanted to work with said widgets his whole life]

user114359

5:14 PM

Speaking of interviews and hiring, I am halfway through my final two weeks. I feel like I really should take a long lunch and slack off, but the same laziness is compelling me to order pizza and stay in the office.

[Hopes that company has enough awareness to realize, "Well, we did ask applicants to write BS cover letters"]

@Snowman - so order in pizza but then call it a day early. best of both (lazy) worlds.

user114359

it is just after noon right now, and I need lunch today.

> Please tell us about yourself in your cover letter. If you send us the same form letter you send everyone else, we'll be sad.

Actually saw this in a job posting once.

@Snowman yup

5:19 PM

@RobertHarvey remember, you're the best mother-fing lunar lander there ever was and ever will be

LOL

I particularly enjoyed that pep talk the next morning when I was sober enough to appreciate it fully

@JimmyHoffa internationalliving.com/countries/ecuador/…

user114359

@Ampt between you and @JimmyHoffa I get my daily dose of random thoughts... reminds me of this guy:

user114359

Jack Handey

Jack Handey (born 25 February 1949) is an American humorist. He is best known for his Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey, a large body of surrealistic one-liner jokes, as well as his "Fuzzy Memories" and "My Big Thick Novel" shorts. Although many people assume otherwise, Handey is a real person, not a pen name or character. == Early years == Handey was born in San Antonio, Texas, in 1949. His family later moved to El Paso, Texas, where Handey attended Eastwood High School (where he was editor of Sabre, the school newspaper) and the University of Texas at El Paso. Handey's earliest writing job was for...

user41796

5:25 PM

@RobertHarvey That's an invitation to take the cover letter to over-the-top levels

@Snowman Which part of this is random? You've lost me.... :)

design object-oriented coupling parameters

Feb 19 at 4:23, by Ampt

they want someone who's been to the moon - god damnit you're the bestest little lunar lander there ever was

'course, that was after a couple of shots.

user41796

Ballmer effect, anyone?

user114359

This question has to have been asked before, but I can't find a duplicate:

user114359

2

Q: Sets of pair parameters

I have the following class, this class like many rely one parameters coming in as a pair. Originally for convenience, I set them as params Object[] values and check if there is an even number of them if (values % 2 == 0). Example Code: using RVD = System.Web.Routing.RouteValueDictionary; /// <...

user114359

5:31 PM

I vaguely remember seeing a question that asked this same thing before on either Prog.SE or SO

:(

nytimes.com/2015/02/27/arts/television/…

I was just about to post that

wow, that is really sad

Leonard Nimoy has passed away at age 83

rwong

In C++, C# and Java respectively, in what situations is "error listener" preferable to throwing exceptions? (I'm talking about big systems, of course.)

Anytime where you don't want to halt the entire service. If you're hosting a website and one user encounters an error, you don't want to kill all of your other users connections, right?

or, if you're flying a space shuttle and one of the sensors is wonky and throws an error, you probably don't want to shut the whole thing down mid-flight, right? especially if you can continue on without that sensor

user41796

5:47 PM

@rwong I once worked on a system where we trapped pretty much everything

user41796

Because we had so many threads going at once, we far preferred to kill off a given thread than to take the entire thing down

user41796

So if it's big enough and important enough, the answer is "always"

user41796

But that also necessitates more error handling code that you have to create.

phew time report submitted with 10 minutes to spare

I'm really bad at remembering to do that lol

Simon André Forsberg

in Duga's Playground, 58 secs ago, by Duga

Might be a good fit for programmers.stackexchange.com? — aw04 41 secs ago

user41796

5:50 PM

@Ampt put a recurring reminder in your calendar

Simon André Forsberg

@Duga has been down a bit but is now up and running again. Hopefully will stay that way now.

@GlenH7 the problem is that it's a tricky calculation. it's the 15th and last day of every month, unless that falls on a weekend/holiday, in which its the day before (or friday before)

if it was just every other friday that would be easy lol

user41796

@Ampt Mine is a set day each week. Much easier to remind myself on

user41796

Please quickly VTC that theory & practice question. OP was asked not to post here.

> voluntarily removed by its author

aaand it's gone

user41796

5:59 PM

woo hoo. :-)

rwong

Ask at cooking: what is the right balance of salt and sugar?

Thanks @Ampt and @GlenH7 for the advice about handling errors softly

user114359

What is the right balance of sugar and spice? And everything nice?

user41796

There was a good comment left on the now-deleted post.

user41796

> This is like asking "What's the right balance of planning ahead and 'YOLO'".

user41796

@fredley The community-driven advertisements/bulletins have to be at least roughly aligned with the topic of the community. This advertisement is not appropriate for Programmers SE. — Robert Cartaino ♦ Feb 17 at 14:57

user41796

6:03 PM

^^^^ Should we explain to Robert the intimate relationship between most programmers and caffeine?

user114359

regarding which advertisement?

us non-10k folks are confuoosoled

user114359

10k... I'll be there soon. Could be less than a week if people ask some easy questions that end up in the "hot network question" list

user41796

Urp, sorry. Y'all <10k'ers can't see this: meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/a/7177/53019 But it's a copy of the Coffee.SE ad on our community promotions meta question. Cartaino (rightfully) deleted it off from meta.progs and left the above comment over at meta.coffee

user41796

I'd screenshot it, but it's the same thing as over in the meta.coffee post

Q: Optimizing conditionals within loops

6:08 PM

Read your code out-loud, including the loops. This will show you your error. — enderland 1 min ago

probably want to CV that guy

rwong

I guess my salt sugar analogy was not accurate. Salt and sugar are condiments, and both have a daily recommended value, which is actually "maximum tolerable daily intake limit above which long term detriment are likely to occur". Theory and practice are sources of "knowledge experience", the more the better.

user41796

@rwong It fit in the sense of each requires different proportions depending upon what you're doing

user41796

A little bit of sugar in the mixture for salting your margarita glass does wonders for the drink. Likewise, a little bit of salt in the mix for your daiquiri is great too. But it's all about the application.

user114359

@enderland that comment is priceless. As was the first line of his question:

user114359

> Do not worry about the purpose of the code. But I will post it below for reference:

user114359

6:15 PM

I asked this guy to profile his code to determine if his question is even relevant to begin with, he asks if I am going to answer his question or not:

user114359

0

Imagine a while loop that iterates through all the lines of a huge file (millions of lines). At some point in the file there will be a line that represents the column headers for the data in the file that I need to pull out for other processing but I have no way of knowing on exactly which line i...

c# loops programming-logic

user114359

That's a really good way to get help from someone BTW

@Snowman so... isn't the answer to exit the while loop early? or am I missing the obviousness of that question?

user114359

@enderland the way it reads to me is he has e.g. a huge CSV file, but the header row is not the first one. It is mixed in randomly somewhere.

user114359

I have no idea what the file format is, that is just how I envision it. Clearly the header must be unique somehow, which is what he is testing for.

user41796

6:20 PM

then consider it an academic question if nothing else jackass, spare me the smug attitude. If you don't want to answer the question then don't but spare me your BS — bruiseruser 2 mins ago

user41796

Someone is more interested in arguing than learning. Let's close that question out quickly, please.

@GlenH7 maybe I shouldn't have flaggged away that comment then :P

user41796

Nope, it's rude and needed to be flagged

user114359

Thing is I actually have an answer for his question, but no desire to share it given his attitude.

@Snowman It's so easy to get helpful flags when your rep is under 2k

user41796

6:23 PM

@Snowman What? Arguing with and cussing at someone doesn't make them want to help me? What's up with that?

I should milk it while I have the chance

user41796

and it was self-deleted

I wonder how many per day I could get if I refresh the progs home page every 15 minutes and flag to close every negative voted question

user41796

@durron597 probably a decent amount

user114359

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask if someone has profiled their code when they talk about optimizing something.

6:26 PM

I thought I remember reading something where CV flags are not added to your flag count?

user41796

@Snowman perfectly reasonable

@enderland Only if you're above 3k rep.

@durron597 Ah

The system automatically transforms such flags into close votes

(got confused with suggested edit rep for a sec. it's 3k)

6:57 PM

I think people who say "Full-stack" these days are actually often times thinking the front-end is the only stack...

it's the most well known, so I'm beginning to think more and more people aren't even aware of the rest of the stack, they connect their front-end to a DB with an ORM and they're done

possible

People want the shiny new thing. "Google made Angular, so it must be good."

"Full stack means you can do the CSS, the JavaScript, some PHP/Node, and SEO"

We want good. Good is good. More gooder.

user114359

@JimmyHoffa "SEO" is a bad word

7:11 PM

OK, why do the chat links no longer point to the chat room that's associated with the main site?

user41796

That's been asked recently a few times

It's gotta be a bug. If you click the "site" link, the background changes from blue to orange, and no filtering occurs.