The Whiteboard - 2014-07-31

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12:48 AM

they're throwing crap at us again...

@Smandoli Please stop using Programmers.SE as your toilet bowl - meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6483/… — gnat 49 secs ago

1:05 AM

@RobertHarvey I'm sure it's just a manual form of what IT folks have. We use remote desktops to get all that stuff on a single monitor, but IT folks have easily more guages to read and knobs to turn in any network. The pilots probably know it the same way - IT guys know they go to localDC01 for their domain controller if there's DNS or domain issues - a pilot probably knows if the plane's behaving a certain way they go look at the guages on the panel 3rd from the left or something

the modern one is probably similarly having just as much stuff just a lot of it's accessible from a single console

which makes me imagine flying a plane sitting in an EZ boy in the front with an ipad

@JimmyHoffa theres not a whole lot that modern airline pilots do. Even landing and takeoff has been automated for most weather situations

1 hour later…

2:39 AM

@Ampt but there's still available control and monitoring of all the same stuff to a pilot as there is in that cockpit with all those guages and knobs

maybe not quite as much, but largely I'm sure for safety reasons they still have facilities in the cockpit for the pilot to manually operate anything they feel they need to in any given situation

I like to believe that my pilots are trained to utilize all of those facilities as well, so while they don't do all of it, the same instrumentation and operation controls are there and they know how to use them, regardless of the fact that they're probably just up their knocking back shots and slapping flight attendants asses (whether or not that's what happens in the cockpit I prefer to think it is, makes flying funner)

6 hours later…

8:15 AM

@Ampt askthepilot.com/questionanswers/automation-myths

5 hours later…

12:55 PM

> Yes, it’s true that most jetliners are certified for automatic landings, called “autolands” in pilot-speak.

It sounds like this guy is just angry at technology in general

> I would like to see a drone perform a high-speed takeoff abort after a tire explosion, followed by the evacuation of 250 passengers. I would like to see one troubleshoot a pneumatic problem requiring an emergency diversion over mountainous terrain. I’d like to see it thread through a storm front over the middle of the ocean. Hell, even the simplest things. On any given flight there are innumerable contingencies, large and small, requiring the attention and subjective appraisal of the crew.

1 hour later…

2:13 PM

Probably more like people thinking of pilots as bus drivers. Or worse, babysitters, since the bus can apparently drive itself.

@MichaelT Done.

@RobertHarvey I'm guessing this isn't good enough for SO? programmers.stackexchange.com/q/251838/25936

> GlenH7 already edited the body of this post; your edit must be more substantive to override the current edit.

hahaha

he's a quick one

user41796

@YannisRizos bleh, that one is garbage

@GlenH7 is a regular user you stupid bot, my edits are more substantive by default.

user41796

Or I see that as a code writing request -- ergo garbage

user41796

2:24 PM

I left a pretty good explanation on that one: "Removed blather."

uno mas por la ganar!

I should stick to one language

para ganar?

to win?

FTW

at least that was my goal... It's been a few years

Ah, that expression isn't used in Spanish

2:28 PM

no, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to try

user41796

Need to export more gaming terms to Espanol then.

@GlenH7 give me a week and a ticket to spain

return ticket not necessary

user41796

@Ampt works things right and your company will take care of that for you

also, absolutely loving the Razer Blade. Using it every day

set up the work computer for email/lync, sit on my laptop programming away in backbone

user41796

@YannisRizos Oh, and thanks for not banning me because my edit got in the way of yours. :-)

2:30 PM

I wish they had opted for mini display port over HDMI, but it's a small gripe

@GlenH7 he's pouring some tequila to prepare for your ban

give it a minute

user41796

I better go get my delete votes taken care of for the day then

are there any stats on how often questions are re-opened?

user41796

@Ampt I think Rachel has pulled some numbers before, but I don't know where that info is buried within MPSE

user41796

It's a fairly low rate though. Many times you need the OP to make the edit otherwise the meaning of the question is lost. And most of the time the OP can't be bothered to do so.

yeah I guess

I'm just not sure if OPs are editing their questions and we aren't seeing it, or if once it's closed they just abandon ship

I look at close votes as temporary things. "Clarify your question a little more and it'll be good"

but I'm not sure how one would even follow up on it, so it seems like a one way trip

I mean a lot of the time it's clear that the question can't be salvaged, or is just plain bad, but sometimes theres something good buried in there, but OP isn't there yet

user41796

2:44 PM

I believe you can track down {close | reopen} votes within data explorer. But you can only tie them to questions that get closed or get re-opened. You can't use it to see who cast the solitary vote or whatever on a post.

maybe I'm just being too soft haha

what does low quality post reviewing doo?

user41796

@Ampt Not necessarily. The community is always at risk of becoming too insular. Asking questions like the ones above help the community keep things in check.

it's saying that I'm recommending deletion. Is that just a mod flag?

user41796

"I'm special" and I get a "Delete" button instead of "Recommend Deletion."

user41796

I don't know if those votes accumulate as flags or if they form another tally

2:47 PM

@GlenH7 you're definitely "special" all right

user41796

@Ampt I know! Aren't I though?!

375

Q: I'm doing 90% maintenance and 10% development, is this normal?

I have just recently started my career as a web developer for a medium sized company. As soon as I started I got the task of expanding an existing application (badly coded, developed by multiple programmers over the years, handles the same tasks in different ways, zero structure). So after I had...

possible candidate for historical lock?

actually it's just kinda crap...

maybe it's time we cleaned that up

user41796

@Ampt I haven't read over the whole thing, but it seemed to be a relic from the NPR days. And a relic that wasn't really worth preserving either.

yeah. At first I Was like "Holy upvotes and page views batman"

but after reading over the content, it's just a long rant with a question in the title

the answers are more about the one line at the very end about his wage and less about anything actually programming or even project related

it needs but 1 more CV to close it

user41796

And it's going to need a mod hammer to blast it into oblivion

2:54 PM

well I'd be happy if it was just closed. I make no assumptions about the will of the almighty mods bows

101

Q: How to Mentor a Junior Developer

This title is a little broad but I may need to give a little background before I can ask my question properly. I know that similar questions have been asked here already. But in my case I'm not asking if I should be mentoring someone or if the person is a good fit for being a software developer....

this OTOH looks like something worth keeping around

honestly it looks like something that may be of use to Workplace.SE, but I make no claims as to whether it meets their guidelines

I feel like any mention of the Workplace in this chatroom should automatically ping @enderland

user41796

@Ampt I don't know if he's picked up his activity levels there or not.

has he not been over there recently?

user41796

@Ampt Yes, that one is probably worth locking. I don't know that I would migrate it though. If it's worth locking, then it shouldn't necessarily be given away.

should I flag for a lock then?

@GlenH7 somewhat, yes

that particular question requires a book to answer though

3:03 PM

It comes with it's own answers!

that's the beauty of it haha

I think as community wiki it's probably a good question to have

since we get questions related to that

if you are going to delete it here I'd bring it over

I think we may just lock/keep it

user41796

What happened to the "we lost a high rep user" question on meta-workplace? I can't find it.

just saw it's content and thought "This is kinda what Workplace is about"

user41796

@Ampt That would be my preference. It is programmer specific

3:05 PM

A lot of it seems general "How do I help a new team member get up to speed on a new role". I would say that teaching someone how to learn isn't necessarily programming specific

that said, it may defeat the point of a historical lock if we move it

the whole point of that is that existing references to high profile questions aren't broken and we don't lose content that while valuable, isn't on topic

I suspect it'd be worth keeping at either site

as it's a useful reference

at least that was my interpretation of the historical lock

Also we get that sweet, sweet SEO buff

this is why I can't go through close reviews

I get too damn distracted

user41796

@Ampt stay focused!

but every question is like an archaeological dig to try and get to the core of the problem

I hate close vote reviews

3:18 PM

did what I could on the reviews

still have 6 votes left for the odds and ends

@GlenH7 I like that you aren't naming SO by name, causing them to double post

user41796

@Ampt Thanks. Most of them appear to be q-banned on SO anyway, so it wouldn't matter. OTOH, I hate when people on SO tell people to repost their crap here. So if I figure I don't tell them where to repost I'm helping cut down on the level of effluent.

@Ampt you're planning to die in spain? O_o

@JimmyHoffa nope, I'd just stick around for a while teaching them what's up

they'll buy me the return ticket when they're tired of my pwnge

3:37 PM

I have officially proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that emacs is better than Sublimte Text 3. You can move along now.

@JimmyHoffa yeah, but they're both inferior to vim. *drops match*

user41796

@JimmyHoffa WUT?! Why even bother with such a silly question?

Can someone mark this as a duplicate of this

out of votes

wait... i can comment it

user41796

Done

Thanks Glen

user41796

3:42 PM

NP

@GlenH7 I saw the question and went "You know... I think someone already asked that. I remember that." So I searched and searched and searched and realized that I asked it. Doh.

user41796

Shopping for security cameras is NP Hard.

user41796

It would be really nice if they simply told me "What's in the box"

@GlenH7 I had never really tried sublime text, gave it a bit of a shot - it's good and I like it, but it emacs does everything it does just as easily and tons more so no need to bother

user41796

And emacs is written in a real programming language

3:43 PM

@Ampt I'm only reasonably depressed how often I remember questions on stack exchange. I wonder how much of my memory is filled with Workplace misc information...

@GlenH7 truth!

@JimmyHoffa my roommate swears by sublime

user41796

@enderland obviously hasn't used emacs yet

@enderland it is a good choice, but emacs wins

user41796

You youngin's

3:45 PM

@GlenH7 I presume you're just yanking my chain - or do you actually know and use emacs?

user41796

Used to quite frequently

user41796

enough to the point where I'd keep a copy of my preferred .emacs settings on some sort of portable media.

user41796

And would complain bitterly if it wasn't already installed in the environment I was working on.

Yeah, sublime is very popular with those front end weirdos

@GlenH7 ah I'm not that bad, but then older emacs was rougher around the edges... the past couple years it's default install has been packaged with tooling for every language by default so I've lost my emacs settings a couple times in the past couple years and don't lose much... though I avoid customizing things for that reason to an extent

plus with the package manager built into it these days it's easy to just install all the extras I want

user41796

3:52 PM

Part of it was the fact that key bindings would change across platforms. And I wanted / needed a consistent key combination for things

@Ampt it really is good. I like it's folders pane

@GlenH7 they would change across platforms??

user41796

In hindsight, it was likely due to differences in default shells more than the underlying OS

user41796

but whatevers. I was young and didn't know better. Now I just don't know better.

With everything I've done emacs key bindings have all been the same in windows and *nix, though I have seen some references to A- bindings which are apple only

user41796

I've used emacs across ... 6 or 7 different operating systems and their default shells.

3:55 PM

@GlenH7 ...you may think me a blasphemer, but I stick to xemacs

the shell doesn't play into it

I would stick with plain emacs but I can never remember the C-k C-k (I think?) to quit, and xemacs has a close button... that's the only GUI element I use in it heh

user41796

I try to avoid religious wars. I've used xemacs (at least I think that's what it was), but I didn't always have that as an option.

user41796

Ctrl-x Ctrl-c I believe is to quit

@GlenH7 see, I can never fucking remember that one... I have all kinds of others but that one just eludes me...

I do wish emacs had a folders pane like in sublime text -> though I'm sure it probably does exist and I just need to search for it...

:q

unless you want to save

:wq

user41796

@JimmyHoffa It does. I don't recall offhand how to load it

user41796

3:58 PM

@Ampt oh :q! it already...

2

@YannisRizos It looks fine for SO to me. Some folks on SO are still in the "what have you tried" camp, but I'm not one of them. The question is clear, adequately scoped and should be answerable.

@GlenH7 yeah, I'm getting tired of C-x arrow key browsing for the buffer off hand as I have like 10 files open and only 2 editor panes

user41796

@RobertHarvey So I should lower my standards in what we migrate to SO?

@Ampt and how do you tile editor panes so you can look at multiple files at once?

@JimmyHoffa :split

@GlenH7 that should be an autokick

4:01 PM

@GlenH7 My big beef are the half-assed, lazy questions that are underspecified and/or riddled with spelling errors, which are probably 90% of the SO off-topic questions posted to programmers.

@JimmyHoffa or :vsplit if you want it the other way

and its... ctrl+tab to switch between them? don't quote me on that, it's been a while

So no, don't lower your standards, but if it's a decent implementation question, feel free to vote for migration.

@Ampt and can you do that recursively?

user41796

@RobertHarvey That makes sense. I saw it as a request to write code, but it was better formed than others. I'll lower the bar a few notches. But just a few.

@JimmyHoffa yep

no limit to how many you can have

user41796

4:02 PM

My bar for migration is likely too high

they just nest

at least, if there is a limit, I never hit it

@GlenH7 The icanhazcodez questions that I close are the ones that read like a work order. The ones that will take an hour (or a day) to answer properly. The "do my work for me" questions.

@Ampt yeah, but it's still vim ;/

@JimmyHoffa oh, you weren't actually asking, you just wanted to try and shoot down vim? :P

user41796

@RobertHarvey Yeah, they don't get to have someone else do their job for them until I get someone doing my job for me. :-)

4:05 PM

@Ampt it's like finding out nazi's didn't have horns, doesn't make them not nazis...

godwin's law FTW.

I ain't even gonna touch that. Godwin can have his laugh

@GlenH7 I close them as "too broad." In the past, that close reason only applied to poll questions or questions that required a book chapter to answer, but now I use it regularly for work orders. Nobody seems to mind.

user41796

makes sense

4:39 PM

since I'm going to be living in emacs for a while, I think I should go get a color scheme for it perhaps...

let's see if I can't find the solarized scheme for it

I've been using it on visual studio for a couple years now

ethanschoonover.com/solarized

is a great color wheel

can't recommend it enough for being easy on the eyes + plenty of contrast to pick things out

honestly... i tried to like solarized and just.... couldn't

It's probably the tinted blue-grey they use

@Ampt I use the light

Never been one for dark editor windows

Psh, and you call yourself a coder? You must only be a 2/10

17

A: How often are closed questions re-opened?

Vote to Close got reasonably close with his answer, in spite of not having access to good information on deleted posts. Since this is something I check fairly regularly, I'll flesh this out a bit more. First, here are the all-time stats: Closed Closed then Edited Closed then Reopened Closed ...

@Ampt too many years in visual studio with it's white editor windows

4:49 PM

VS doesn't have a dark theme?

just can't get used to dark ones. Trying solarized dark in emacs now, will see. Each time I try it I invariable go back to light later but maybe because I'm out of visual studio I'll be fine with it

when I last used it (2012 edition) it had dark support

@Ampt I never messed with thems until very recently - defaultly it only had light for a long time

@Ampt yes well I've been working in visual studio since '98...

lot more habit built into it for me

@GlenH7 it was deleted by mod per request of said user :)

@gnat Interesting. Thanks for the link

4:51 PM

though my boss still keeps his solution explorer on the left like old '98, I can't stand that anymore, ever since they moved it to the right in '05

> This is going to be blunt...
>
- I don't enjoy being elusively a janitor due to the deluge of junk
- I don't enjoy *having* to be a janitor to participate in a site, even if this just looks like sifting through junk to answer
- I don't enjoy community outrage over downvoting and closing crappy questions.
- The "think of the poor new user, how can you be such a jerk to them" site culture is a huge turn off for me. YMMV.
- People love upvoting crap. This drives me nuts. Fighting an already lonely battle for site quality is hard enough without other active members working against you.

user55340

Whee Hot Question titles:

user55340

24

Q: What is the terminal velocity of a sheep

I am thinking of an alternative timing mechanism; I am building a trap and I wanted to try something different to set it off. I want to drop a sheep from n blocks high so that I have a delay before the trap is triggered. The timing needs to be very exact, but I don't know how the falling mechani...

user41796

@gnat danke. I had been wondering.

@MichaelT it depends on the period since shearing

a completely unsheared sheep can fly.

user41796

4:56 PM

> It is an Unladen European Sheep.

user41796

@gnat I'm tempted to ask the author why he requested to have that post deleted, but meh. Some things are best left alone.

@GlenH7 yeah I feel the same. However, the farewell text was so friggin' good

user41796

@Ampt - using the queries that VTC provided in the question gnat linked, Programmers has a ~8.5% reopen rate with 8783 closes and 743 reopens.

user41796

I suspect the rate is lower though because we're fairly aggressive in deleting off crap questions.

It got linked unfortunately (the last line is very true still though, heh)

5:08 PM

Everything that sounds like trolling, abuse or rampant irony on any other SE site is just another day at the office for the Arqade site.

user55340

@RobertHarvey Lounge vs Bridge - who would win?

@MichaelT I want to see the average chat flags per day for all chat rooms...

user55340

@GlenH7 You know you want to do some more therapy....

5:26 PM

tool recommendations are explicitly off-topic per help center. meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6483/… Also, please don't cross-post: stackoverflow.com/questions/25052461/… — gnat 10 hours ago

^^^ cross-posted "twin" of this garbage gained 5 close votes at SO in 15 minutes, I've been watching. At Programmers, it hangs around for 10 hours now with 2 votes. I plan to use results of this "experiment" in my new MSE post about hot questions

user41796

@gnat Woo hoo! I'm one of the 2

@GlenH7 I've been literally crying watching how fast it was dealt with at SO. 15 minutes. Fifteen friggin' minutes

user41796

@gnat We closed out a few this AM in just a few minutes

user55340

(I've been out of close votes since last night... and noting that there's 20 in the queue right now to be addressed... it will probably be so again)

user41796

Community close faster than it took to show up on the ticker here in chat

5:31 PM

@GlenH7 yes I remember (and sorta proud). What hangs at our front page, has pretty good chances, especially given how small we are compared to SO

@MichaelT yeah that's a reality at smaller sites, totally, completely different from one at SO. Reality ignored by brainless hotness formula

user41796

But it's entertainment ;-)

user41796

... and sniped! :-)

it typically takes hours or even days to close, no matter in the hot list or not. At SO, if garbage gets into hot list, it can be closed within seconds

@GlenH7 but of course!!! no matter how it harms site community

30

A: What is the Goal of "Hot Network Questions"?

I actually have a slightly different opinion of what "hot" questions are good for: entertainment. When I'm bored, tired of doing actual work or waiting for something to finish running, they're almost always good for a quick - and ideally informative - diversion. This is what I've always used the ...

user41796

Sorry, I couldn't resist the jab

If you wanna see some action
You get nothing but the best
The S and M attraction
We've got the pleasure chest

user41796

5:41 PM

Probably just as well I didn't click through on that youtube link... :-)

user55340

user55340

0

Q: Refund close votes for questions deleted on the same day

When a question is deleted the same vote-day as it was closed, refund the close votes cast on the question. There are two situations where this comes up: Question has a close vote or two, a comment tells the OP that this is off topic (or about issues with the question) and the OP self deletes ...

feature-request vote-to-close deleted-questions

@MichaelT "any evil plan I write comet thue"

user55340

Some meta unicorn poo would be nice.

user41796

@MichaelT You're a little more dirty now

5:51 PM

@gnat I'd help but I'm outa votes for the day :(

user41796

@Ampt doesn't it feel great to be able to whinge about that?

@GlenH7 pretty much. Let me grab some cheese and crackers and I'll have an afternoon made out of it

user41796

Don't forget a glass of your favorite beverage

that's what the whine is for ;)

a little bit of killing with fire would be appreciated:

-1

Q: Arrays in Fortran

I was trying to plot y=sin(x) but I made a mistake somewhere in my code and I can`t get any data for y. I get zeros both for y and x. Can you help me in identifying the mistake please? program Data_structure implicit none integer, parameter :: a = 0.0 , b = 20 real, dimension(50) :: y real, ...

user41796

5:53 PM

@gnat Assuming the OP isn't q-banned on SO, is that one worth migrating to SO?

@GlenH7 SO has custom close reason for that

"debug my code" is off-topic

user41796

ok

user41796

There was an earlier one I said wasn't worth migrating but our local SO mod said "eh, it's good enough"

240

Q: Should we have a more specific close reason for vague debugging questions?

For several months now, we've had a close reason (actually an off-topic reason, but no matter) for poorly-asked debugging questions: This question appears to be off-topic because it lacks sufficient information to diagnose the problem. Describe your problem in more detail or include a minimal...

discussion close-reasons

> Questions seeking debugging help ("why isn't this code working?") must include the desired behavior, a specific problem or error and the shortest code necessary to reproduce it in the question itself. Questions without a clear problem statement are not useful to other readers. See: How to create a Minimal, Complete, and Verifiable example.

user41796

It's been kicked to the queue

5:56 PM

Reading about the fallout between lo-dash and underscore

now I need some popcorn

6:15 PM

Some interesting information I didn't know about Winforms events:

0

A: Are Generated Events Handled Immediately or After Code Execution?

Events that are generated in response to a user action on the surface of the User Interface are placed in the Message Queue of the User Interface. The message pump that operates on the UI thread executes these messages in the order they were received. If the UI is unresponsive because another e...

Or maybe it's just interesting to me.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Is that just for winforms or all of windows type events? (silverlight, wpf, ?)

I imagine that the design is very similar.

But, I answered specifically for Winforms.

user41796

Thanks!

user41796

(No need to leave the evidence around as to why I justifiably would have been kicked from the room)

WPF uses Dispatcher.Invoke

6:51 PM

0

Q: At smaller sites, penalize hot questions having 3-4 close votes

At smaller sites (up to 50-100 questions a day average) closing a question takes hours or even days. As an example, this SO question has got 5 close votes in 15 minutes, while its twin at Programmers has been struggling to get 3rd vote for over 10 hours. "Twin" here means, same question has bee...

feature-request vote-to-close hot-questions community-standards

1 hour ago, by MichaelT

Some meta unicorn poo would be nice.

-9

Q: Why don't we have a brainstorming/discussion site?

Can we have a learning/brainstorming/discussions (basic newbie questions) site? Just a suggestion, please do consider. Usually most questions asked by new members have very limited scope for research, but still there are members who are good enough and interested enough to spend time in making ...

feature-request new-users split-stack-overflow

Isn't programmers.stackexchange.com the kind of site you're willing to have? — Konstantin V. Salikhov 14 hours ago

wow... just... woooow!!!

guys like these send crap at us from SO

@gnat Hanlon's Razor

@KonstantinV.Salikhov wow. Just... wow. Please stop using Programmers.SE as your toilet bowl -> Are you still confused about what Programmers is for? — gnat 10 secs ago

^^^ comment upvotes are welcome

> freelancing and business concerns

wut

> software licensing

double wut

7:31 PM

Anyone used Crown Peak before?

7:59 PM

@Ampt I never much liked crown, not a fan of rye I guess.

rye?

Is that their custom language, or is this some kind of bread joke

I'm going to go with bread joke...

8:26 PM

hello

Can programmers.blogoverflow.com be used to post coding articles in the style of "here's a guide on how to do X"? Or is it not meant for such things?

@GlenH7 who was doing the blog again?

ahh such a simple little thing that so few frameworks can do, but of course the ICANHAZ library made by internet cats pulls it off like a pro..

  {{#navItems}}
  <li>
    <a href="#/">
      <i class="fa fa-dashboard">
        <span class="icon-bg bg-danger"></span>
      </i>
      <span>{{name}}</span>
    </a>
    {{>nav}}
  </li>
  {{/navItems}}

note the {{>nav}} that's a self-reference to nest the control in itself with the iteration over navItems if the current item has a subcollection of them

so sub-nav items will just be automagic

user15026

@Ampt Alcohol joke, I think. (referencing Crown Royal or its ilk)

user41796

8:43 PM

@Ampt Dynamic and World.

To clarify a bit, I'm interested in sharing my experience/knowledge in ASP.NET MVC and web development in general. Before I go and set up my own blog platform, I figured I'd ask if such articles are welcome on the Programmers blog.

Should I post on your meta or do those responsible for the blog visit this chat?

user41796

@Stijn Probably welcome on the blog, yes

user41796

@dynamic, @worldengineer - what do you think about @Stijn's proposal?

9:14 PM

I think I might use Knockout for automatic UI updates just with ICanHaz for my templates.. ICanHaz makes templates super easy to grab and apply, it uses context logically, and knockouts automatic UI updates based on model changes are really easy to wire to arbitrary things...

hrmmm

though if I'm going to look at knockout for it's bindings I suppose I should look at it as a whole package, see if it can do the templating too as easily as intercat netgineers

ah hell knockout comes with a built-in facility to integrate with a 3rd party templating engine

@JimmyHoffa That's convenient.

I guess I'll have to rethink Angular.

@Stijn I don't see any reason why we couldn't use the blog for such articles. Though to be fair, the main site is perfectly capable of hosting such topics, if they're well-written. But yeah, if it's a "share my experiences" post, it belongs on the blog.

@Stijn can you just download your experience into my brain kthx. Literally just figured out this new system I'm being trained on is all C#

looks like I may not be paying for intellij after all @MichaelT

@RobertHarvey I'm not all that familiar with Programmers, mainly an SO user.

@Ampt I would if I could :)

user55340

@Ampt Girlfriend said 'no'? or company is buying linceses?

@MichaelT If I'm doing C# .net dev, I'll be using VS2012

user55340

9:23 PM

@Ampt And Resharper! jetbrains.com/resharper

user55340

(and wait for @JimmyHoffa's rant about it...)

lol maybe if work pays for it

I'd have a real tough time paying for an addon to software I don't actually own

user55340

Also glance at that 'other .net tools' link.

user41796

@MichaelT resharper got a lot less useful with VS2012. Not sure how it fairs in VS2013.

I'm cool learning .net though. another notch on the belt

Thanks in advance Jimmy!

user55340

9:26 PM

@GlenH7 I will point out that Jetbrains isn't keeping their tools static either.

@Ampt if it's web dev, you might find vswebessentials.com useful :)

user41796

That's very true. And most folk I've met who use resharper still like it. It's just not the slam dunk value it once was.

@Stijn it looks like I'll be doing web dev for a very specific platform

I definitely will check that out. looks like exactly what I would want

is it Free?!

yes, and open source

although the 2012 version has less functionality than the 2013 version

user41796

VS2013 in general is better for web work than VS2012

9:31 PM

pretty sure that the framework only supports 2012

user41796

"Sorry"

is it that bad?

user41796

nah

ok. didn't think so

user41796

intellisense works better for web stuff in 2013

9:33 PM

definitely can't hurt my resume

user41796

but VS2012 is still tolerable for an IDE and web stuff

it's too bad that .net is tied so hard to VS. that would have been killer if I had been able to use intellij

user55340

@Ampt similar things can be said of Xcode and Objective C... though I'll point out I've also got a copy of appcode.

@RobertHarvey like I said, if I was building amazon or some large commercial website with a team of people to own and maintain it, I would likely go with Angular as it's so comprehensive, but for a 1-2 person dev/maintenanance team, I think the resulting system would take too long to initially build and have a fair bit of overhead in the maintenance as a result of it's bloat.

user20683

@Stijn Sounds potentially interesting. Blogs gone a little off the rails due to lack of interest/both Dynamic and I being stupidly busy much of the time, particularly him.

9:38 PM

I just don't think it's likely I'll get any sort of consistency across the system using something that big. Too many nooks and crannies and switches everywhere, I know I'll end up having inconsistency across the different components of the system with just me to own it all

user20683

@JimmyHoffa tech.esper.com/2014/07/30/algebraic-data-types

@JimmyHoffa So what you're saying is if I don't want to work in a large corporate behemoth, I should avoid Angular like the plague.

@WorldEngineer well then I'll see if I can write something in the next few weeks and then you can take a look?

user20683

@Stijn works for me

@RobertHarvey yes and no, as far as systems go for building large applications, it looks like a very good choice among a field of terrible options

@WorldEngineer did you read that?

user20683

9:42 PM

@JimmyHoffa skimmed it

variants - new one to me, considering they talk about product types I wish they had used the term sum types for the ADTs, but people are always trying to come up with the least-intimidating terminology ever for stuff like that which results in people naming and renaming all of that stuff...

sum type has the best intuition about ADTs as far as terms go I think

10:21 PM

Interesting problem posted on Stack Overflow. Well, it's interesting to me; the rest of the community apparently found it completely uninteresting.

0

A: how to create a vector from a multi dimensional array?

Not an actual method (since there's no simple way to pass an array of arbitrary shape to a method and then operate on it), but this works: var list = new List<int>(); foreach (var item in array) { list.Add(item); } var flattenedArray = list.ToArray(); where array is a rectangular array o...

10:32 PM

@Ampt gotta say, for front-end, I'm rather liking the dark solarized... I have a few shell windows in emacs running my web server and automatic build processes and the dark makes them look much better while it all blends well with the html/javascript in my other panes

had to change it because the shells kept throwing errors in yellow with emacs' white background making them impossible to read...

@JimmyHoffa Yes... Yes...

10:57 PM

@Ampt the dark solarized makes me feel..... powerful... Yes....

user55340

11:56 PM

Somewhere, awhile back (6 - 9 months I think) I read an article on Hacker News about something on the social contract in a quick programming course... the phrase was somewhere similar to "it shouldn't need explaining" and how thats really not helpful. (related revision)

user55340

Anyone know of that article?

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