Game Development

Stephane Hockenhull

1:04 AM

Whew, that pathfinding explanation was a pain to write

The guy's pathfinding will recurse once for every cell in the map.

Stephane Hockenhull

1:20 AM

I added an animation gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/137867/…

super duper awesome animation :D

DH.

7:38 AM

@Tyyppi_77 It could be designed to be that way, but I'm finding it really hard to play on the second level with those flame beams when I can't ghost jump (do a double jump by just falling from a platform) or being able to double jump if I hit my head on the ceiling

Hjorthenify

8:08 AM

@jgallant What's in the box?

Chris McFarland

8:46 AM

Added some bounce to my UI

now it's time for networking

user92578

9:08 AM

Awesome!

Game Development Meta

10:13 AM

0

Q: What's the point of the [class] tag?

I noticed that someone had proposed an edit that added the class tag to a question. The tag has no description and it looks like it's used for when the question relates to the generic programming concept "class". Should the tag be removed? Is this actually a useful tag? If it is, could a usage d...

Hjorthenify

11:00 AM

You guys read about cloudbleed?

user92578

ya

Chris McFarland

yeah :(

user92578

oh fuck it's saturday, what can I tweet

Hjorthenify

The official bug tracker is quite interesting to read, where he explains the horrors he gradually uncovered as he dug deeper and deeper into the problem.

Chris McFarland

Got a link?

Hjorthenify

11:03 AM

Read it on my phone yesterday. Let me try to find it

Here it is: bugs.chromium.org/p/project-zero/issues/detail?id=1139

Chris McFarland

Thank ye

so a bad case of failing to handle badly-formed html tags?

user92578

11:22 AM

they should switch to a regexp based parser

Kevin van der Velden

@Tyyppi_77 I'm fairly sure bleeding clouds is already a sign of the apocalypse, we don't need to literally invoke the elder gods as well

Stephane Hockenhull

12:39 PM

We shall fight off the horsemen of the digital apocalypse using vi

and Fortran

jgallant

1:01 PM

Just use water.

Stephane Hockenhull

or many layers of wool and polyester clothing and shag carpeting. Wait until they come in and zap them.

user92578

hmm I need to come up with a screenshot without violence

user92578

wait what, 4 screenshots

Stephane Hockenhull

why without violence?

user92578

steam needs screenshots that are suitable for all ages so that the game can be shown on steam's frontpage or something

user92578

1:11 PM

I guess weapons are okay... Chris seems to have axes or flamethrowers in all screenshots

Stephane Hockenhull

[2017-02-25 09:15:39] Downloading update (10,657 of 169,017 KB)...
Of course steam has to update... it's been 3 days

user92578

1:35 PM

user92578

Thoughts? I'm personally not a huge fan

user92578

^ that's what I currently have but it's a little plain I think

Ali.S

@Tyyppi_77 I would place only one character on the left side

snowy500

1:54 PM

can you have directional light, and specular light together? If so how, because specular light relies on a surfaceToLightVector, but with directional light the light has no position

jgallant

@Tyyppi_77 I like it.

Better

user92578

The first one?

jgallant

@snowy500 blending

Yeah man its nice

snowy500

its ok I solved it thx

jgallant

Awesome

user92578

2:04 PM

most games seem to have like awesome custom drawn super highres incredible keyart capsule images

jgallant

We are not like most games

user92578

true

jgallant

0$ budgets

user92578

fucking hell steamworks site stopped working and I lost my progress

jgallant

What do you mean

user92578

2:05 PM

I was working on my store page description

user92578

pressed save

jgallant

Oh fuck

user92578

then it stopped responding and threw an error at me

user92578

should've written it elsewhere first

jgallant

Data all. Gone?

user92578

2:06 PM

just the description I wrote

jgallant

That's technically the hardest part5

user92578

yeah I hate writing these kinds of texts

user92578

just buy my game will ya'

jgallant

I'm gonna buy it

user92578

...but only if my description is awesome and breathtaking, right?

user92578

2:11 PM

you already have it you fool

jgallant

Ehhhhh yeah of course.

I only buy games with excellent descriptions

Hyped man.... Breath of the wild

Already getting 10s,and the game is blowing people away. I'm so hyped

Battle system looks amazing

And people are saying it is hard and you will die

Stephane Hockenhull

So, Skyrim but better?

user92578

I think I like this one a lot more

user92578

2:32 PM

user92578

Maybe with weapon rain?

Stephane Hockenhull

HAHAHAHA I love the gun rain

Kevin van der Velden

@Tyyppi_77 easter egg if you keep spamming on the gunhero logo?

Stephane Hockenhull

Only thing is orange and purple shirt are very close to the background's chroma and saturation

maybe they need a drop shadow or glow or something to separate them from the bg a tad

user92578

@KevinvanderVelden otherwise yes but the mainmenu easter egg spot is kinda taken

Stephane Hockenhull

2:36 PM

The hair blends in too

user92578

yeah I'll try to add some glow to the background or something

user92578

Better?

Stephane Hockenhull

Yes. better, I've also tried this ^^^

some kind of evil aura or whatev :P

user92578

not terrible

user92578

2:45 PM

it kinds brings the characters out of the picture as like a separate thing and I'm not sure if I like that

Stephane Hockenhull

yah

user92578

copters? too busy?

user92578

(sorry for the spam)

Stephane Hockenhull

If the city is green-ish the characters pop better ...

user92578

2:49 PM

that's true, there just isn't a green city in the game :(

Stephane Hockenhull

buuuuuuuut ... kinda look odd

yeah

not-so-green ? ...

I'm still not sold

user92578

I understand your point but I'd like to stick to the colors in-game

Stephane Hockenhull

What if it was using a jungle background? You got one in game?

user92578

I do have a jungle background, that's blue and I didn't like the blue forest background very much
I also ended up changing my jungle thumbnail gif on greenlight to the prison one given that a certain game is quite jungle-heavy

user92578

It's not a huge deal anymore, but...

Stephane Hockenhull

2:52 PM

yeah, so far yours with the yellow glow's the best

I think the copters are fine. goes with the over-the-top theme :D

Can we get 'stache character customization?

I want my char to have those handlebar 'stache :D

or the biker stache

user92578

lol I might look into that after release

Stephane Hockenhull

So that I could annoy my friends and kids by taking forever to pick one

user92578

hat & facial hair customization

Stephane Hockenhull

like, if you can select it before you respawn, and if you don't pick one quickly and everyone dies while you're too busy 'staching around it's gameover :D

user92578

3:02 PM

looks pretty good imho

user92578

logo pops out even from a small image

Stephane Hockenhull

nice

user92578

Yeah now I just need to make all sorts of different sized versions of the capsule

user92578

231 x 87

user92578

who the fuck comes up with these dimensions?

Stephane Hockenhull

3:09 PM

LOL

IKR?

The page designer couldn't be bothered to round it up or down a bit

jgallant

Gaben

Shimmies himself through a door frame to get to the meeting room. Proclaims uneven values for all steam images. Shimmies back out.

user92578

HAHAHAHAHA

user92578

jgallant

Fucken pimp mamn

user92578

the worst thing is that all these beatiful pngs are converted to fucking jpgs

user92578

3:19 PM

467 x 181

user92578

rly?

jgallant

Wait till you see the workshop page templates

But yeah I Remeber cutting up stupid random image sizes l

How dare you release another game before adding cloud save to your other game you fucken asshole

user92578

steamworks page is stuck again

user92578

...

jgallant

Steam was down once when I was coding

Couldn't test anything

user92578

3:33 PM

I dev with steam closed so that I can edit my saves

jgallant

Yeah but testing level uploading or voting and shit like that

user92578

yeah, right

user92578

3:49 PM

background isn't visible in beta mode :(

Sie

4:10 PM

I wish SSD's would go down in price quicker.

jgallant

POOF, your wish is granted.

Sie

Thanks m8.

user92578

jon what did you put in for those support fields

Hjorthenify

911

jgallant

wut m8

what support fields?

user92578

4:17 PM

for the store page they require like a support email or something

jgallant

i put my @jgallant email

its my business email

user92578

aight yeah I was just wondering, it doesn't seem to show up on the page

jgallant

ok, bbl going out

user92578

o/

Stephane Hockenhull

@Tyyppi_77 Have you tried renaming the .png to .jpg and uploading it as that? :D

Hjorthenify

4:29 PM

Inb4 that breaks steam

Stephane Hockenhull

Most web systems nowadays seem to just validate the file extension and pass the file on to a generic image reader that autodetects the header and load any format anyway.

I've seen .gif uploaded as ".jpg" just by renaming and and still animating on the page

Hjorthenify

Usually the frontend varifies the extension and then the backend verifies that it actually is of that format

Stephane Hockenhull

"usually"

Hjorthenify

You will always find some retarded webservice accepting the image as is

Stephane Hockenhull

I was thinking about using a minimal Qemu VM just to parse user-provided assets and convert them to the proper format. Reset the VM on every conversion. Just cloud the F out of it...

user92578

4:34 PM

looks like I need to set a release date before I can make my page public :(

user92578

I also need to make a trailer

Stephane Hockenhull

2020

Feb 31st

done.

user92578

lol

yahoo5000

6:12 PM

any idea on fixing this one ? i know where is the problem but could not think of solution , its probably just need to do correct calculations or maybe something else

Rec025

►

void GUIList::MouseDrag(int x, int y)
{
	listindex += y-lastmouseY;

	listindex = clamp(listindex, 0, (int)optList.size()-listsize - 1);

	for (int i = 0; i < listsize; i++)
	{
		int y = Box.top + (Box.GetHeight() * (i + 1));
		optList[listindex + i].SetPosition(Box.left, y);
	}
}

for now i am changing index based on how much pixel mouse moved

user92578

what's index? mapping to an item?

yahoo5000

thats are wrong because scrolling bar height are less

listindex is top element index to draw

in optList vector

so i am drawing listindex + list size

user92578

so if you move your mouse 20 pixels it changes 20 items?

yahoo5000

yea

user92578

surely that's not what you want?

user92578

6:15 PM

how about listindex += (y-lastmouseY)/ itemHeight;?

yahoo5000

not realy because mouse dont follow slider

hmm that doent work at all once i try to drag its just jump to the end

division of negative number ?

is it legal ?

user92578

what?

user92578

seriously?

yahoo5000

i mean if y-lastmouseY is negative :D

user92578

of course that's legal

yahoo5000

6:18 PM

sorry forgot all math that was teaching at school

user92578

my scroll code is very messy

user92578

I think you want to actually divide with the scrollbar height

user92578

like the actual draggable button height

yahoo5000

i tried

listindex += (y-lastmouseY)/ itemHeight;

listindex (y-lastmouseY) /scroll[0].GetHeight();

or meybe devide height by size of list and then y-lasty / result ?

i mean : (y-lastY) / (barheight / list.size())

no thats probably stupid

user92578

I don't think I am of huge help here, my implementation goes handle first while yours goes item first

yahoo5000

6:22 PM

np might figure it out myself do some break and try it later

or skip this for now and do keyboard search on list

Blue Bug

7:15 PM

@Tyyppi_77 how are you doing laser? They look cool

user92578

Thanks! It's just a static 1px tall sprite that I stretch and scale the width with a sinewave. I use a raycast to determine the length and then I throw some fire particles at the ray collision position.

user92578

Definitely easier than you'd think but also not the easiest thing to make

Blue Bug

Neat.

user92578

Had I shader support I imagine I could've made all sorts of cooler effects/more dynamic look but it's pretty neat yeah

Blue Bug

? you don't? I thought Unity now allows you to do all sorts of shader stuff for free?

do they still have stupid shader restrictions?

user92578

7:20 PM

I don't use Unity

Blue Bug

oh dang!

right!

what? really?

right XNA

user92578

no, closer though

Blue Bug

(memories coming back)

user92578

SDL2, C++

Blue Bug

Do you not have shader support stuff? DO they not allow it?

user92578

7:22 PM

I'm one of the few people actually using SDL's built in renderer which has no shader support

Blue Bug

do they give you ray cast? or did you have to do it yourself? ( I hope they do )

user92578

SDL is rendering, input, audio, windowing, everything else is custom

Blue Bug

Dang man... what a work that must had been.

user92578

Well it's not terribly difficult but yeah, time has been spent doing engineish stuff

Blue Bug

Yeah. I mean it lessens the burden of setting up Window and starting to render triangles I guess, but the weight of doing math and managing game itself is on you I guess?

user92578

7:28 PM

Yeah, it's been a great learning process but that's not great for actually shipping a product

Stephane Hockenhull

You can say that again :P

user92578

what?

Stephane Hockenhull

> not great for actually shipping a product

Blue Bug

Dang boi Tyyppi. I don't think it is the type of work that most people can handle. Most struggle even with Unity giving them practically free pass of implementations.

user92578

<3

Blue Bug

7:30 PM

Old fashioned game dev. I like it.

Blue Bug

7:51 PM

BTW in order to drag button on screen, you need to translate your mouse position to screen space then move the button to corresponding screen space or just hide the cursor while you are dragging (in your case).

Stephane Hockenhull

I prefer to convert the mouse position to world space (or UI space)

jgallant

Preordered Zelda. I am against preorders too

Blue Bug

I think world position UI is much better than flat screen space UI.

By that I mean UIs that's part of the world itself.

So today I were design stuff for my game, then I realized that every game has this "I am a robot but do I have a soul" thing going on if they have a robot character in their game.

Stephane Hockenhull

8:07 PM

it's okay, tropes are like a cheeseburger

Blue Bug

So instead in my game I have "I am a fcking robot. I know I don't have what you humans call a soul. I don't care."

Stephane Hockenhull

It's all about how well it's cooked :D

Blue Bug

I don't get that cheeseburger reference. Perhaps because I never eat cheeseburger?

Stephane Hockenhull

It's all about how well you cook the meal. just because a recipe is a classic doesn't make it bad.

or a very common recipe

Blue Bug

A ha!

ramsay

8:22 PM

2 days ago, by jgallant

@Ramsay I get what you are asking. Starting out is quite overwhelming. There is no secret, you need to read and try. After a few years of this you will understand what I mean.

^thanks man @jgallant

Blue Bug

I think it is still incredibly frustrating even if you get past the starting stage.

ramsay

@BlueBug Then simple programing is also frustrating (like yucky algorithms and competitive problems)

but fun to solve

Blue Bug

I don't think it is necessarily fun. It is certainly satisfying when you finally resolve the issue you were having but... fun? Aka I think it's the reason why so many people in my major(game design and dev) drop out, transfer to different major.

Stephane Hockenhull

ugh, uploading a 20MB video and YT is being a bitch... "error processing video"

IT'S 640x480 MPEG4 HOW CAN YOU NOT PROCESS THAT?

ramsay

then real fun is crushing laptop, burning books, DDoSing facebook and siting on couch and gazing stars but we can't do it.. certainly we have to find alternative to these wild things :-( and that is what I think game programming is @BlueBug

Blue Bug

8:37 PM

real fun for me is sitting and playing video game... Playing video game is more fun than game programming.

ramsay

YEAH!

Blue Bug

I almost force myself to do game programming man. Pushing myself just a tiny bit each day to move at least a step forward. DO PROGRAMMING FOR ME YOU STUPID SELF! DO IT!

ramsay

hahaha! I do it for doing my college activities

Blue Bug

I mean I too... but honestly the class expectation for the course in my school is very low. And I think most students are into designing and talking about game, rather than making one o~o.

Stephane Hockenhull

let's try at 30fps ...

user92578

8:42 PM

That's kinda expected since ideas are so much easier than execution

Stephane Hockenhull

let's try at 30fps ...

ramsay

our country's education system is pretty down and everyone runs to russia for programming or mathematical carrier

Stephane Hockenhull

Screencast 2017 02 25 16:39:53

►

Got the segment markers to update as well

Sie

I enjoy BF4 but it's so buggy. Also what idiot though Battlelog was a good idea? Good lord.

Blue Bug

what's Battlelog

user92578

8:50 PM

@StephaneHockenhull That's so very really awesome! Real-time updating soon?

Sie

Basically instead of a normal launcher it uses this cancerous web portal to all of that. It's just a massive and unneeded pain in the ass.

battlefield.wikia.com/wiki/Battlelog

Stephane Hockenhull

@Tyyppi_77 Soon. Right now I'm running in debug and it's not caching the front textures at all so it has to reload 2x 2Kx2K textures (diffuse + normal) every update that's why it lags on updates.

user92578

Oh all right!

jgallant

@Ramsay np

Stephane Hockenhull

It even works if the segments intersect :D

jgallant

8:54 PM

Generating a mesh from tile?

Stephane Hockenhull

from 3D tile meshes for the side walls and polygon fill for the front

jgallant

You using clipper?

Stephane Hockenhull

clipper ?

jgallant

Yah the lib

I'll take that as a no

Stephane Hockenhull

nah, I got my own polygon -> triangle mesh code.

Stephane Hockenhull

9:16 PM

arright, cached those textures...

I need more CPU cores.

user92578

Don't we all?

Stephane Hockenhull

Zen can't come soon enough :P

jgallant

Stephane Hockenhull

got realtime update. making video ...

as soon as the -O2 build finishes ...

Success: ../result/exec.elf

make[1]: Leaving directory 'projects/level_editor/targets/linux.x11.x86_64-O2/build'

real 2m24.612s
user 13m35.864s
sys 1m51.176s

2m24 is too long :P

trying to make a full HD capture...

MickLH

@jgallant I was gonna star this but I couldn't bear that URL stinking up the star board indefinitely

Stephane Hockenhull

9:29 PM

It captured the wrong screen HAHAHAHA

jgallant

The packaging really wants to emphasize the wheels

A product for idiots made by idiots

MickLH

@jgallant Jesus Jon! That is motherfucking offensive! How dare you?!

You can't just go around acknowledging the reality of what most people are! What's wrong with you?

Stephane Hockenhull

9:43 PM

52MB full HD video uploadin'
DSL connection be weepin'

Like Russia mah music be stallin'

If upload fails, gonna be cryin'

Chris McFarland

lol

Stephane Hockenhull

I need to add the rectangle selector tool. CTRL+LMB for multi select is not that great.

well .. I need to add LOTs of things :P

I can only move vertices right now. Save, Undo,Redo isn't hooked up yet (implemented, just not hooked to KB events). so many things left to do...

Screencast 2017 02 25 17:35:40

►

@Tyyppi_77 realtime update ^^^

user92578

That's sick

MickLH

Since you have that working... now you have to do destructible world

Stephane Hockenhull

I already got a minecraft engine :P

Blue Bug

10:00 PM

float a = 1; float b = 1;

will (a==b) give me true?

Stephane Hockenhull

yes

user92578

Yes

Blue Bug

what about a = 1.001; b= 1.001; (a==b)

user92578

Yes

Stephane Hockenhull

yes

Blue Bug

10:01 PM

nisu.

Stephane Hockenhull

however
float a = 1.0f;
for(int i=0; i < 100; ++i) a += 0.001f;
float b = 1.1f;

will probably not give you true for (a == b)

user92578

Yeah

Blue Bug

float is a dark magic. Must be used with caution.

jgallant

@micklh shaaaaaadup

Stephane Hockenhull

but
float a = 1.0f;
for(int i=0; i < 256; ++i) a += 0.00390625f;
float b = 2.0f;

Will give you true for (a == b)

2

Because we're not getting any rounding as the numbers are powers of two and we're not breaking the floating point range. 0.00390625 == (1/256.0f)

Blue Bug

10:05 PM

I think it gives you true because you are adding such a specific number that is somehow related to bits and bytes in such such ways that it gives you "true"?

MickLH

It's easy if you just remember it's scientific notation in binary

Blue Bug

shivers what a dark art it is. Such forbidden addition trick.

Stephane Hockenhull

You have 24bits of precision with 32bit floats.
as long as what you add/subtract is within 24 significant bits of range you're safe.
0.001 is a periodic number in binary so it doesn't fit in 24 bits

Blue Bug

so much... bits and byte details that I do not want to care but must care, yet very interesting!!! especially because I am delving into GPU memory management now days

Stephane Hockenhull

gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Hex-Floats.html

You can't pack more than 3 bytes into a float.

Blue Bug

10:11 PM

what? I can't? I thought float was 4 bytes?

jgallant

You can with magic

Stephane Hockenhull

Or else you'll get NaN and denormalized numbers that the GPU can turn into zero

Blue Bug

I am coming with example of me packing 4 bytes into a ~~float~~ int

Stephane Hockenhull

aaah, int. yes.

float no.

AFK, dinner.

Blue Bug

interesting... so while I can pack 4 bytes into int, I can't with float even though float is 4 bytes?

MickLH

10:15 PM

depends on how your platform handles tagged NaNs and denormals

Blue Bug

pastebin.com/93MMhNTa

I can do that^ though.

MickLH

If your platform handles signaling NaNs reliably, then you get one more "usable" bit, because you can have a 23-bit payload as the signal of a NaN

jgallant

I like naan bread

MickLH

To extract anything further requires screwing with the denormals, which is pretty much just a "bad idea" because usually the hardware gets slow as fucking shit when you touch denormals in any way

Blue Bug

I searched "denormal float". I understood it as "because float describes really small numbers below 0, it masses up with packing and unpacking. So don't use float to pack bytes"

MickLH

10:26 PM

The denormalized numbers are the range between -FLOAT_MIN and +FLOAT_MIN

I think zero is technically a denormal

jgallant

Blue Bug

below zero(x) -> below one(o)

Stephane Hockenhull

@BlueBug the problem is you can't mathematically extract fractions from a NaN. once the number turns to NaN that's it.

Neither can you from INF

and -INF

MickLH

(unless you hit the bits, but then you should have just used an int probably)

Stephane Hockenhull

yeah

If you have to use a float, it's because you have no choice: it's a GPU that doesn't support ints.

in that case you're limited to packing 3 bytes

And even then, you have to hope that the GPU supports 32bit floats properly. Some only use the top 24 bits of the floating point.

[ The Radeon R300 and R420 GPUs used an "fp24" floating-point format with 7 bits of exponent and 16 bits (+1 implicit) of mantissa.[1] "Full Precision" in Direct3D 9.0 is a proprietary 24-bit floating point format. Microsoft's D3D9 (Shader Model 2.0) graphics API initially supported both FP24 (as in ATI's R300 chip) and FP32 (as in Nvidia's NV30 chip) as "Full Precision" as well as FP16 as "Partial Precision" for vertex and pixel shader calculations performed by the graphics hardware.]

Minifloat

In computing, minifloats are floating point values represented with very few bits. Predictably, they are not well suited for general purpose numerical calculations. They are used for special purposes most often in computer graphics where iterations are small and precision has aesthetic effects. Additionally they are frequently encountered as a pedagogical tool in computer science courses to demonstrate the properties and structures of floating point arithmetic and IEEE 754 numbers. Minifloats with 16 bits are half-precision numbers (opposed to single and double precision). There are also minifloats...

Blue Bug

10:34 PM

I wish it was something I can easily learn. Today I ran into this knowledge in this discussion almost accidentally. I can now not make mistake of using float to pack my byes, but I would have done if I didn't run into this discussion.

Stephane Hockenhull

As you can see from this, some GPUs ignore the bottom 8 bits of a float.

MickLH

Also even if you successfully pack into floats, now you have to unpack :P

Which probably kills any benefit of packing

If you're so severely memory bandwidth bound that it's a win, then there's probably a bigger win waiting somewhere else

Stephane Hockenhull

not really. GPUs are so fast now compared to their memory you might benefit from it.

MickLH

I see what you think I said but I'll go ahead and point out, "there's probably a bigger win waiting somewhere"

Stephane Hockenhull

yeah

MickLH

10:39 PM

I'm not saying packing itself is a bad idea, it's great

But abusing something that has been forced to be float for whatever reason... eh I'm doubtful

I mean I possibly am just missing it, but I can't come up with a case that redeems it

You know what might be a cool use is if you pack some integer data and some float data both into one float, and then use the interpolation hardware to get some kind of logarithmic interpolation of the integer

Stephane Hockenhull

b0 = step(0, -f) * 128.0;
f = (abs(f)-1) * 128;
b0 += floor(f);
f = fract(f) * 256;
b1 = floor(f);
b2 = fract(f) * 256;

I think I can do better ... hrm...

That packing will still fail if the GPU has DNZs...

@MickLH maybe a case where you are running out of texture samplers but could still pack into floats and the GPU doesn't have integer textures? dunno.

Would have to not need interpolation

I guess might as well OpenCL it at that point.

MickLH

I was thinking of something like that (with the texture samplers), where you're out of samplers but you have an extra float

I think I came up with an almost reasonable case though: You have g-buffered materials but some of the material types need 2 small integer parameters where others need a float

Stephane Hockenhull

oh, yeah. saving an entire extra g-buffer might be worth it.

I use forward rendering so running out of sampler is a real possibility...

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