The Heap™ – Consultancy ©® - 2014-09-15 (page 1 of 2)

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1:24 AM

Wrecking my brain!

0

Q: Creating error record when SQL Server udf function returns a certain result

I have been wrecking my brain over this all weekend. I have a SQL Server UDF to check whether a value passed as an argument will truncate. CREATE FUNCTION willTruncate (@fldValue nvarchar(200), @fldSize smallint, @fieldname nvarchar(40), @tbl varchar(15)) RETURN...

sql-server tsql stored-procedures user-defined-functions

2 hours later…

3:37 AM

Dumb question - is dropping a column (alter table drop column) a size-of-data operation or metadata only in SQL Server? (dropping a nullable varchar(50), no image/text/ntext datatypes in the table)

3 hours later…

6:23 AM

@SimonRigharts Could "Dropping a column does not reclaim the disk space of the column" imply that it's metadata only?

1 hour later…

7:31 AM

@SimonRigharts My understanding is that it is metadata only. There may be subtleties. Are you seeing something that suggests otherwise? Or just wondering?

8:30 AM

@AaronBertrand: I'm sorry, but I don't believe the context will give any help to solving this puzzle. — mrdr 5 mins ago

Ha ha ha ok shrug... I don't know what "suggestions" you want. As has been described my multiple people, this syntax is not valid T-SQL, so it must be there in order to be processed by some external application. Do you want us to guess what that application might be or what language it might be written in? — Aaron Bertrand ♦ 2 mins ago

I shouldn't type at 4 AM

8:46 AM

In other news, we're off to make another splash in the gene pool...

Continuing the Bertrands' long term plan to dominate the world

Indeed! Torn between Nora Aster Grace and Nora Autumn Rose. Which one sounds more worthy of a president?

I like the second one, but aim for Supreme Dictator For Life rather than President :)

Thanks, sounds good. I had final say on first name, so don't be offended if Nicole opts for Aster Grace (Aster means "September flower" or something)

Ok, ciao, it's go time

They're both good options.

Good luck!

9:00 AM

Aster

Hi every one

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

9:21 AM

666

A: What do 'real', 'user' and 'sys' mean in the output of time(1)?

Real, User and Sys process time statistics One of these things is not like the other. Real refers to actual elapsed time; User and Sys refer to CPU time used only by the process. Real is wall clock time - time from start to finish of the call. This is all elapsed time including time slices u...

Not sure about the significance, but ...

what is the general difference between sql,mysql,Oracle

I agree they all are RDBMS

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

34

A: As a DBA, how would I go about transitioning from Oracle to SQL Server?

I've swapped between working on Oracle and SQL Server over the past few years, and wrote a blurb on going the other way here. There are a number of idiomatic and architectural differences, and various bits of terminology get used differently by the vendor and developer/DBA communities surroundin...

but what does them unique from the other(other then ope source )

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

30

A: How to make a transition from SQL Server DBA to Oracle?

Oracle and SQL Server have a number of architectural and idiomatic differences, and several key bits of terminology are used differently in the documentation. It's quite a few years since I did this, but some of the major idiomatic differences are: Oracle has no direct equivalent to tempdb. G...

@user285oo6 Those two give you a quick overview of the differences between SQL Server and Oracle.

The merits (and otherwise) of MySQL are quite well documented on the web.

@user285oo6 "sql" is not a DBMS, it's a language by the way. I guess you meant SQL-Server.

9:26 AM

ya

its because while reading from a material titled SQL and PL/SQL for Oracle I tried a data manipulation called delete

wherein it did not mention any FROM clause in the syntax

it simply gave delete company where cname='sophore';

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@user285oo6 MySQL is designed to be the back end of high volume web sites. it is optimised for fast execution of simple queries at the expense of features that might suit more complex applications.

after which when I perform a roll back; it gives query ok 0 rows affected

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells ok I understood that MySQL is the back end of high volume sites and sql is a language through which you perform the DML OR DDL

on the database

@user285oo6 In SQL-Server and Oracle, the FROM is optional in the DELETE statement. In MySQL it's mandatory.

In SQL-Server there is even a weirder syntax with two FROM !

@yper ok then what about rollback

What about it?

9:35 AM

@yper on the syntax DELETE FROM company WHERE cname='Sophore'; I performed a roll back

and it gave 0 rows affected

whereas I should have got back the deleted record

@Con Does this differ also for the rollback

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@user285oo6 If autocommit is set on (which is typically the default behaviour) the transaction will automatically commit and can't be rolled back.

9:51 AM

ok then is it good or bad to disable auto-commit which is the default behaviour in both SQL server as well as Oracle

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

It depends.

If you're doing a long sequence of manual updates and want to check each step then disabling autocommit is the right thing to do.

If you're developing a stored procedure, ETL job or similar piece of work you might not want to disable autocommit.

@user285oo6 What ^^^^^ @COTW said.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@user285oo6 What are you trying to achieve?

Also: rollback will give "0 rows affected" anyway I think. Whether it rollbacks nothing or 100 statements.

but if auto-commit is enabled which is by default then how are we supposed to update a table

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

9:54 AM

@user285oo6 Issue the SQL statements and it will commit them automatically.

I am having a table of just 16 records and when I update a record say in the SAL column is $16 before hike to the new $20 after the hike

then in this case auto commit is good right

@Con "If you're doing a long sequence of manual updates and want to check each step then disabling autocommit is the right thing to" could you give a simple case for this

like in the Bank transactions

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@user285oo6 An update statement will do that. Autocommit means it will commit after you enter the statement.

@user285oo6 Say (for argument's sake) you're updating some reference data for an application. There's no data entry screen to do it, so you've got the job of writing a SQL script to make the change.

so place where there's no UI you need to disable the Auto commit

to ensure the updates take place

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@user285oo6 No. If you want multiple statements to commit or rollback at once then you need to disable autocommit. This could just as easily take place in the context of an application.

However, you need to stop conflating use cases of application code and manual database updates and be clearer about what you want to know.

Thanks .Let's say I have a banking application wherein I need to test the updates for many no of customers so what do you suggest me in this

There may be millions of transactions which imply millions of updates in their bank accounts

So how can I test these many no of updates

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

10:05 AM

@user285oo6 In a banking system, you would want any financial transaction to be atomic, so the debits and credits would be separate statements and should be wrapped up in a single transaction. In this case autocommit would be undesirable and you would want to commit the transaction all in one hit.

yes

cleared a great confusion thanks @Con and @ype

Customized Name

10:45 AM

Ladies and Gental's man, I am back

2 hours later…

12:49 PM

morning all

1:14 PM

morning

1:25 PM

morning

morning

@PaulWhite early morning for you, right? Or late in the evening?

@bluefeet Currently 1:28am Tuesday

1:41 PM

@PaulWhite Have you just got up or not yet gone for sleep?

@ypercube Not yet time for sleep. My wife had an operation on her knee several weeks ago, so the days are set aside for looking after her. If I want to do some SQL work, well that starts about 11pm :)

@PaulWhite But it has been already 3 hours since. In that time you should be able to fix every SQL problem ever

@Lamak I'm off to a slow start today ;)

@PaulWhite so it will take 5 hours to solve everything?

At least.

1:49 PM

ah, ok. Well, don't let it happen again

@Lamak feeling bossy today?

@bluefeet I just wanted to give him some motivation :-)

2:15 PM

One more bullet to kill and you can also add a DV for people referencing group_concat

-4

Q: I Have A List Emails, I Want To Know How Can I Separate Each With A Semicolons (;)

I have a list of Email ID’s of users and I need to send all of them a reminder. So I need to populate it and via SSIS have to send them a reminder. I need to know : How can I pick email ID’s with separation (;) How to add them to a string variable, separated by ; How to configure the script t...

sql c#-4.0 ssis

@billinkc Done and done. Downvoting does sometimes help, in a way, people who misread questions.

2:46 PM

Hey.

Howdy. What time did you get back to the motherland?

About 1 am.

I had been asleep for 3 hours by then :D

Glad I did too. Apparently the entire time I was gone my dog didn't eat and as a result has become even more old and weak as a result.

Weird

2:51 PM

She's done that before when I leave her with people which is why I thought leaving her at home with my roommates would go better.

Should have brought her along. Buster could have slobbered all over her, had he been at mmarie's

She doesn't much like travle either.

She's just too old for that sort of thing.

@Zane how old is she?

14

Then you have to keep her in one spot while the world moves about her and only start moving her again once the right location has arrive

2:54 PM

@Zane one of mine just turned 13 last week - old ladies

She basically decided this spring to get old.

Or some weird physics mind scrambling thing about observational points that is undoubtedly easier to comprehend under the influence of mind altering drugs

holy crap. the nfl is just so godawful to watch right now.

Eh?

just. so. bad.

3:09 PM

Explain yourself, sir.

@MikeFal tried watching 3 games yesterday. the quality of officiating is just really, really bad. these new "points of emphasis" give way to much power to the officials to be able to influence the outcomes of games.

(i know that the concept of "points of emphasis" is not new, but these particular ones are so ... subjective)

@swasheck Ok, so crappy officiating. Got it. I would tend to agree. Love how they blew the Harvin touchdown run so blatantly.

The Broncos was a tough watch, but less of the bad officiating and more of Denver shooting themselves in the foot on 3rd down.

I tried watching NE v. MIN, but MIN was so dreadful that I went and took a nap.

@MikeFal they were really bad. but the officials made some awful calls against both teams - and not even close. the "offside" at the 2-minute warning was laughable.

@MikeFal Chi vs. SF was awful officiating, too.

@swasheck What, offsides in DEN v KC? As far as I could tell, those were all legit. Broncos were jumping all over the place.

@MikeFal KC got called for an offside well after the 2minute warning should have been called. that was just 1 of many bad calls against both side.

@MikeFal i'm not going to be a homer and say that the broncos were screwed ... i'm saying that the officials are getting in the way of perfectly good games.

3:21 PM

@MikeFal We took a beating.

@Zane Funny thing was, that opening drive was great.

Then Cassell started throwing INTs

Brady seemed pretty pissed about losing to the dolphins and decided to tear us a new one. Then Castle kept our defense on the field all day long. Which made use even more vulnerable.

@MikeFal Yeah. The Vikings are on the right track but until Bridgewater is ready to man the helm we won't be terribly relevant.

@Zane our defense sucks huge goat balls. we gave up 1st downs on 3/8 3/9/3/11 and 3/18

just on big plays

we gave up another 4 on penalties

I think describing it as "sucks huge goat balls" is a little excessive.

On the upside my fantasy team dominated.

3:24 PM

They were extremely sloppy, true. But just sloppy. It's all fixable.

I think it's going to be a weird year in football.

@MikeFal well they've not shown me anything other than that. the inability to get off the field is ... problematic ... and i'm not sure what they can do to "fix" it.

@swasheck Captain positivity over here.

@swasheck The first thing to fix is penalties. Like that roughing the passer, completely unnecessary. If Jackson had been more disciplined, he could have avoided that one.

The offsides....a number of 3rd downs were converted because of either shortened yardage or simply converting because of the penalty. Again, discipline.

@MikeFal the unnecessary roughness was questionable. 99% of the time that doesnt get called (like on the next series when manning got drilled in the back on nearly the same play). the illegal contact --- dbs need to learn to keep their hands off the receivers.

but they've not learned that at all this year so far

3:28 PM

Some of it is better play calling. KC's running game was pretty good, and a lot of times DEN was expecting the pass and got run on. Some of it was simply Alex Smith's atheleticism.

The roughing the passer was debatable, but it was called because Jackson shoved Smith after the play was dead. That was dumb on Jackson's part.

@MikeFal week 1 ... fox's prevent offense almost came back to bite us (because, again, the d couldnt get off the field).

Prevent...offense?

@MikeFal nah. play wasnt dead. it was dumb and you dont need to push the limits, but the play wasn't dead.

@swasheck Either way, Jackson shouldn't have done it.

@MikeFal low-percentage incompletion on 1st down. run up the middle. run up the middle. punt

3:31 PM

That's not Fox, that's Gase. If it is really Gase, Peyton also changes a lot of that on his own.

Also, I saw plenty of passing on 2nd and 3rd down.

Not as many dropped balls this week. That was a positive.

@MikeFal my point is that they show no signs of learning how to clean this up. my hope is that they are just overlooking the colts and the chiefs for the 'hawks

It is only game 2 of the season

@MikeFal meh. fox sets the tone and yeah ... peyton changes a lot

@MikeFal not in the 2nd half of game 1

@MikeFal true. oh well. it's just disappointing because there was so much hype about the improved defense.

@swasheck Defensive talent is better. 2 things from this week: 1) Smith is a better scrambler than people give him credit for and 2) D needs more discipline.

I think next week is going to be a long day for the Broncos because Wilson is going to give them fits.

@MikeFal smith is really fast ... yeah. and the d definitely needs to figure things out

@MikeFal i agree. i just hope they can keep it less than the SB spread.

3:35 PM

We'll see

You guys are one of 4 teams that are 2 and you make it sound like it's all over...

Not me, I'm realistic about the state of the team. The Broncos are still very good, but lots of sloppiness.

SEA is going to be a really tough challenge this early in the season, especially in SEA and with as sloppy as the D has been. Part of the reason KC kept it close is they killed us in time of possession. That's how you beat Peyton, keep him off the field.

SEA is set up perfectly to do the same thing. Solid D, solid running game, scrambling QB....I expect DEN will lose. But no one goes perfect anyway, so as long as they still win the AFC West, it's all good.

@MikeFal Who knows they just got beat by a Chargers team that does not impress me.

Yes, but that was in SD and the Chargers were ready to play that game. And don't sleep on SD, either. They've got some solid pieces. Rivers, much as I hate him, is a good QB. Especially if you give him time to throw.

Good grief. Cassel threw 2 more ints after I stopped watching?!

3:52 PM

@MikeFal chargers can be really good.

@Zane Better than throwing floats or varchars, I suppose :)

2

We should stop approving incomplete edits. It encourages people to fix only some of the problems. The users in question will eventually gain enough rep to avoid edit reviews and we'll have lost our opportunity to educate them.

@Zane we're a pretty weak 2-0 team, honestly. neither win was particularly convincing. indy was to be expected, but the chiefs are down like 2/3 of their team and we still held on for dear life.

they will get better, but hopefully it will be soon

@PaulWhite There is a "Reject and Edit" option now.

@ypercube I know. I wish reviewers would use it. Or 'Improve' of course.

3:55 PM

@PaulWhite I'm getting real tired of people submitting an edit of one or two words and mark it as "improved formatting"

I keep finding edits that improved e.g. formatting but didn't fix spelling/tags/etc etc

@MikeFal Right. Death is too good for them.

What kills me is I'll reject that edit, then someone else comes along and approves it.

@MikeFal "Reject and Edit" is the hammer you need.

New and improved shogness in the edit queue.

It could have been called "Look dumbass, this is what you should have done" but that's probably too long for button text.

Also, what are you doing up at 4 AM?

hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

user image

3:58 PM

2 hours ago, by Paul White

@ypercube Not yet time for sleep. My wife had an operation on her knee several weeks ago, so the days are set aside for looking after her. If I want to do some SQL work, well that starts about 11pm :)

Thanks Mr Cube :)

Also:

Ah. Sorry to hear about your wife. How is she doing?

43

A: Approve as too minor

There are a couple of problems with this: The meaning of "too minor" varies widely between individuals. Are trivial changes always too minor, or only too minor when they ignore other, more damning problems with the post? The edits you provide as examples illustrate this nicely - even the last o...

@MikeFal Much better in general, just physically a bit useless :)

and:

3

A: Why are you rejecting this Edit - Changed

There are at least two questions where this change has been suggested/discussed: Approve as too minor. An old question where @Shog in 13th of August makes many suggestions, one of them being: Get rid of the "too minor" reject reason entirely. @Shog's question (20th of August): What g...

@swasheck was this because of the buyout?

@Lamak yeah

4:01 PM

nice. Well, I never got into minecraft though, so

neither have i

Does anyone here have a favourite 'generate a restore script' script for SQL Server?

I've realised the ones I've been using are a bit crap

Must have gotten it from Fal

<3

@James i think the ola hallengren solution has a backup solution as well

Coming soon, Microsoft Minecraft December CTP Preview 1 Update Refresh.

Tweeted by shanselman on September 15, 2014 at 3:57 PM

4:06 PM

Thanks, I'll check out Mike Fal's script

Ola Hallengren's scripts don't do restores, unless there's one I don't know about (not unlikely)

@James I was just busting his chops, pretending that the ones that are a "bit crap" were authored by him

hurrrrrrrrrrr ... restore. sorry. i dont reed so gud

Try reading guids, they're enterprisey

@billinkc Yes, I know, but it sounds like his might actually be what i"m looking for

I do not know that such a thing exists. Sorry to get your hopes up

Although, that could be fine pressure for him to post some PS that generates said scripts

4:09 PM

@billinkc Hah. Funny that you were just joking, then mikefal.net/2014/07/22/restoreautomation-powershell-module

@James yeah. i was going to say that @MikeFal has some pretty good posh restore scripts. i watched him use them during a SSUG meeting last month

:)

Curse-You -recipient=MikeFal -level=FistOfDoom

@billinkc That'll get you a syntax error. :)

PowerShell is a big syntax error

4:14 PM

Says the guy who writes SSIS.

I think I'm going to go write some Indian food into my system

Booo

Now I want vindaloo

So I think the number one thing that I did wrong with my session was not build the package live like I originally wanted to. I really feel like that would have helped some of the basic users grasp the content a little better.

@Zane How did your session go overall?

I got too concerned about my hands going ballistic. Which essentially did not happen.

4:19 PM

@Zane Oh, yeah, how did it go?

How was your feedback?

@MikeFal Good. All of the feedback I got was very very positive. I even got a offer to speak at SQL Saturday or a user group meeting in Des Moines(which I will probably not take). Most of the comments say I need to slow down a bit.

I think building the package live would force me to slow down.

@Zane yeah, it does. And helps a lot for less experienced users

@Zane Usually the case for a new speaker. This was your first time, right?

Yup.

The other problem I had was I found it to be very taxing.

4:23 PM

@Zane it's exhausting for me. also - i suck.

I knew that taxes in the US were kinda insane, but to think they will charge you for giving a presentation, what a shame

@Zane It can take a lot out of you, especially for your first couple of presentations. A lot of this is nerves, some of it I'm sure is introversion. The more you do it, the more relaxed you become, the easier it is on you.

I'm a introvert but my batteries recharge very quickly so it's rare that I feel drained after any sort of outing. However giving that presentation brought me down to zero so after I left the room I had a massive headache and needed to essentially bail and be alone for a while.

After about 30 minutes of just driving home I felt great.

Yeah, I hear ya.

@Zane i'm a huge introvert with slow-charging batteries ... i'll blame it on my age :)

4:26 PM

@Lamak You get taxed for giving a free presentation?

Even as an extrovert, when I get done with a presentation I need a little downtime.

@James Not sure if you are going along with my (bad) joke, but, no ;-)

@Lamak Sorry, I'm slow today.

Although US tax law can be somewhat surprising. I have to report my income to the US tax authorities for the rest of my life even though I haven't lived in the US (or received income from the US) for nearly a decade.

@Zane It is an effort. I usually feel somewhat elated in the hours immediately after, then crash hard soon after that.

@James uh?, really?

4:31 PM

@James What will they do if you don't?

In other news, I recently learned you have to pay and apply and wait to be interviewed to renounce US citizenship. Wow.

@Lamak Yes, US tax law is somewhat unusual in that US citizens still have to file US taxes even if they don't live in the US

@PaulWhite In practice, probably nothing. But they could attempt to fine, imprison, or audit me if I moved back to the US in the future

@James It's the same for Greeks - but after some years (5 or 10) you can skip it I think.

Not sure.

I'm not really complaining, by the way. For my situation it's just something that wastes a few hours of my time a year

Please see my previous 'wow' but with slightly more emphasis.

@PaulWhite do you have US citizenship?

4:36 PM

@Lamak No!

Oh, well, how did you learn that then?

@bluefeet Think it worth migrating this here so we can close as dupe of this?

@Lamak Random conversation with someone.

BBL Lunch time.

@PaulWhite yes please

@swasheck Kinda odd he accepted my SQL Server answer. Perhaps an Oracle expert will add another answer or edit into mine at some stage.

4:45 PM

I feel like I'm going to have to have to fly back to KC to get a better feel for the city as well.

@PaulWhite perhaps. it's really pretty broad so i'd close SO as dupe of this question and then close this question as too broad

@Zane that's a lot to pack into a lunch break

@swasheck Yeah maybe. Though the fact an answer is accepted might count against that? Dunno.

@PaulWhite could be. if they could narrow it down to a specific RDBMS it would also help their cause. that they accepted your answer could indicate that they were looking for a SQL Server answer, but that's an argument from silence.

Not exactly silence, he did comment about Oracle & SQL Server (which I edited in)

ah. fair enough.

4:58 PM

Mass surveillance discussion with Kimdotcom, Julian Assange and Edward Snowden (!)

In New Zealand :-)

I do wish he'd f**k off back to Germany.

@PaulWhite why?

@Gonsalu Because he's obnoxious and just trying to avoid extradition to the US by interfering in NZ politics. Among many reasons.

Also – kind of related – sysadmins see evidence that they have been hacked by GCHQ: spiegel.de/video/…

quite scary

Honestly he's been nothing but a major PITA since he got here.

Don't get me wrong - I accept Assange/Snowden's concerns but KDC just annoys me.

5:02 PM

I understand

There is no way on earth NZ is directly involved in mass surveillance of NZ citizens. The US might be, but that's another story. Also I will take our PM's word over dotcom's any day of the week.

I've just been reading headlines here and there. I know that he recently won something against the US that basically means he's getting his stuff back, but I don't know anything about him interfering in NZ politics :\

@PaulWhite, wasn't there a recent leak saying that your PM implemented a surveillance program while publicly denying it, tho?

online.wsj.com/articles/…

9h ago actually, heh

@Gonsalu He essentially bought his way into a minor very left wing party (Mana) here. KDC started an 'Internet Party' and have Mana NZD x million to grease the wheels of the election. Which happens this Saturday btw.

@Gonsalu Exactly. No proof, and John Key declassified some documents here to make the point. As I say, I'll take our PM's word over dotcom's any day. And by a very large margin.

Bear in mind JK is the most popular PM we've ever had. Dotcom said himself that JK could shoot kittens in the face and still get re-elected.

haha

Sometimes kittens need shootin'

5:07 PM

Absolutely they do :)

@PaulWhite That's good to know. With all these news lately, anything associated with surveillance is a pretty sensitive topic...

@Gonsalu Everything I just said (aside from the kittens) is in that WSJ article anyway.

@Gonsalu I have little doubt our public communications are monitored, at least as metadata, just not by NZ people or with the NZ government's consent.

That said, if I wanted complete privacy I wouldn't be online at all, and my emails would all be encrypted etc. And there are reasonable arguments to be made for some level of monitoring.

@PaulWhite Yeah, I just read the headline hah. I'm not following the NZ surveillance topic too closely.

I'm surprised it's made as much news around the world as it has. After all, we are very small and out of the way down here.

@PaulWhite watch the german sysadmins videos (6min) I posted above; it's not really just a matter of metadata...

5:13 PM

@Gonsalu I doubt I'll be interested enough to watch it. I don't care much aside from regarding kimdotcom as a prize dick.

Fair enough

@Gonsalu Isn't that video about GCHQ (i.e. the UK) anyway?

@PaulWhite It is; it's not related to NZ. It's just scary how far they go on compromising networks to have access to them

@Gonsalu Yes, I have heard all sorts of things e.g. intercepting Google servers without their knowledge etc. That's very naughty of course.

@PaulWhite done - dba version -- dba.stackexchange.com/questions/76597/…

go ahead and VtC

5:19 PM

Very naughty indeed :-)

@bluefeet Thanks!

0

Q: is access of database records sequential after retrieving the indexed page from disk

What i understand about Database that if queried or requested record is found in the disk page. the whole page is loaded to main memory. For example if the content of table stored in disk page like this: 001:10,Smith,Joe,40000;002:12,Jones,Mary,50000;003:11,Johnson,Cathy,44000;004:22,Jones,Bo...

^^^ VtC duplicate please ^^^

@Gonsalu The one thing I do find interesting is the claim that there is a "United States National Security Agency facility in Auckland and in the north of New Zealand".

Though quite what that means is anyone's guess.

More details will come out soon enough, I would guess. The debate is pretty recent and will spark a lot of discussion and investigation, for sure.

Perhaps. Four days before our General Election is extremely suspicious timing.

And regardless, we should revoke dotcom's residency and deport him for being a dick.

@PaulWhite absolutely, what's taking you so long?

@Lamak Kiwis are nice

It'll be their downfall!

5:31 PM

@Lamak Unfortunately I do not have a binding vote :(

@JNK No doubt. Look what happened to Canadia.

(Aaron's busy so I'm safe)

@PaulWhite Let's star that comment then

@JNK true

You're nice but small, @PaulWhite

Quick googling tells me your national GDP is a little less than we spend on our Navy

'MERICA!

@PaulWhite I'm watching the debate and there's in fact quite a few people with Mana t-shirts in the audience... Hmmm.

@JNK Less than you borrow from the Chinese to spend on what? Ha.

@PaulWhite :) V true

5:35 PM

@Gonsalu Yes they were bussed in from all over.

The audience was not a representative sample of kiwis by any means!

I think of Short Poppies when I think of sample kiwis now, @PaulWhite

Well, I don't feel like spoon feeding today

@SauravKundu I saw the change and I can help, but to be honest I rather not. The new requirement should be easily derived from the current code. I'm not trying to be condescending, but you should try to edit the code yourself otherwise you won't be able to learn from this — Lamak 23 secs ago

@swasheck Need to be able to experience that place without being on a schedule.

Not that the speaker stuff wasn't fantastic. It's more that since I'm still considering relocating there I really need to get a feel for the town.

@JNK Nice :)

@PaulWhite All this talk has me researching your tax system which is interesting in its relative simplicity

you only have like 4 tax brackets and the cap is at a pretty low income

5:46 PM

@JNK I thought it was three?

There was talk of moving to 10% / 20% / 30% at some stage.

Because, you know, round numbers are simpler.

Taxation in New Zealand

Taxation in New Zealand is collected at a national level by the Inland Revenue Department (IRD) on behalf of the Government of New Zealand. National taxes are levied on personal and business income, as well as on the supply of goods and services. There is no capital gains tax although certain "gains" such as profits on the sale of patent rights are deemed to be income. Local property taxes (rates) are managed and collected by councils. Some goods and services carry a specific tax, referred to as an excise or a duty such as alcohol excise or gaming duty. These are collected by a range of government...

14k, 48k, 70k, 70k+

we have 7 brackets and the top 4 start at like 90k

@JNK I always forget the 30% level!

Remember remember, the thirty percent leverl

We do have an ACC levy though but it does provide accident cover everywhere for everyone, which is nice.

@JNK If you split countries up by budget less than our military spending that's going to be a huge list

5:52 PM

@Zane yeah almost all of them

@Zane Actually looks like it's more than anyone under #19 on the GDP list (switzerland)

The latest figures I think we have are like $670b annual military budget

As they say in "Team America: World Police", "Freedom isn't free"

That's just an unbelievable amount of money.

@JNK Man my budget isn't even close to that.

@PaulWhite yeah it's bananas

Keeps a lot of people employed no doubt. I'm not entirely convinced of its effectiveness at promoting or keeping the peace, however.

But think about it, we have an incredible number of bases all over the world

Crazy things like supercarriers

5:56 PM

@JNK Those are pretty cool.

Oh yes I can see where the money goes. And the military doesn't seem to have much of a reputation for thriftiness.

i.e. money is not always terrifically well spent.

But that's just a view from a long way away based on no facts at all.

@PaulWhite This is true. Also they build a lot of custom things for the environments they operate in.

Is this a valid edit:

dba.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/31227

@PaulWhite Government in general seems to have that problem.

Remember, we are the government.

5:57 PM

There's a great example in The West Wing TV series where someone is commenting to a former submarine officer about the military spending $100 on an ashtray

Wellll, its gotta be a milspec ashtray

@MaxVernon I have no idea what that edit is trying to do.

He takes a $100 ashtray and breaks it, and shows her how it breaks into 3 round pieces with no sharp edges

@billinkc In theory

Well, if you work for a consulting company, you're doing all the non-work ;)

5:59 PM

@PaulWhite yeah, me either. I didn't want to reject it since that might be a conflict of interest.

@MaxVernon Allow me.

@PaulWhite :-)

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