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Kermit
Kermit
1:29 AM
@swasheck HAHAHAHAHAHAHA so true man
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:06 AM
 
Paul White
Paul White
@swasheck I had the reverse problem while in the US - trying to find something that approximates to a flat white - the ubiquitous coffee here.
 
swasheck
swasheck
indeed. i'm still trying to grasp what exactly it is which is owed to my lack of tactile experience with it
 
Paul White
Paul White
@billinkc A bigint isn't big enough (maximum value 18446744073709551615). A decimal(20) would be fine though.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@PaulWhite we decided it would be easiest to just not worry about fiddling with the intermediate types and go straight to XML
 
Paul White
Paul White
Oh ok, still reading forward in time :)
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:17 AM
does anyone else find it incredibly arrogant that mongo calls its server process mongod?
@bluefeet whats up
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@swasheck modding, what's up with you?
 
swasheck
swasheck
i'm trying to work up the motivation to finish a blog post. just ... cant ... do ... it
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
sounds fun. I've been working on one for about a year but life has gotten in the way
 
swasheck
swasheck
things are more difficult for me than for someone like @PaulWhite who just mind-melds with the optimizer and asks it what it wants to teach humanity about itself
 
Paul White
Paul White
Oh yes because writing is that easy. I never go months without being able to write. Er.
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:31 AM
heh. i know - i'm just exploring my inferiority complex
 
Paul White
Paul White
One thing I am still learning is not to set the bar too high for oneself.
Or to be dissuaded by the apparent high quality work of others.
Fully accepting that the next post probably isn't going to change the world is harder than it sounds.
Which is not the same thing as saying the world needs more Pinal Daves.
 
swasheck
swasheck
of course. i'm less dissuaded by the high work of others, and moreso by the fact that i tend to go into uncharted territory (for myself) so everything is essentially an "alpha" version for me and who knows what's going to be wrong with it :)
 
Paul White
Paul White
Just try to avoid writing complete crap.
:-D
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@PaulWhite I feel like I've written maybe two posts like that in my life, and still felt they weren't taken as inspirational as I predicted
 
Paul White
Paul White
@AaronBertrand I can relate.
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:38 AM
decidedly on-topic:
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
But whatever. If one person appreciates the post and learns from it, two thumbs up. Same as giving a presentation - I don't expect to enlighten everyone in the room, but I'd only be disappointed if I enlightened nobody. I haven't always been this way - see my post about feedback from my first SQL Bits, I took a couple of scores pretty hard.
Now I'm much more careful about writing a good title and abstract. If people show up but don't get what they expected, I'm far less to blame than I used to be.
 
swasheck
swasheck
that's a good point.
 
Paul White
Paul White
@swasheck I read that, pretty much, and am none the wiser.
I never read evaluations any more, even though I know I should. I gave a talk once where I got 100+ gushing evals and one bad one. It took me months to get over it.
 
swasheck
swasheck
@PaulWhite a very bad blog post about a very bad blog post :)
 
Paul White
Paul White
@swasheck Sure is!
 
swasheck
swasheck
2:44 AM
so meta
 
billinkc
billinkc
2:56 AM
@PaulWhite Do you define an unsigned long as 2^32-1? Otherwise, how can it not fit in bigint 2^63-1
 
Paul White
Paul White
Modern definition of long, I guess. A long long in old speak.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Ah, I was going with this definition arduino.cc/en/Reference/UnsignedLong
 
Paul White
Paul White
Understood.
 
billinkc
billinkc
But I was also assuming it was free form XML and they were just interpreting strings as whatever data type
 
Paul White
Paul White
One never knows on SO.
 
billinkc
billinkc
2:58 AM
Troof
Presented for your entertainment, possibly
Nevermind, that was not as good as their usual offerings
So many people think they can drive rally. So many examples of them not
and with that, off to play some mindless video games instead of rehearsing a presentation
 
 
2 hours later…
swasheck
swasheck
5:01 AM
 
 
2 hours later…
Andriy M
Andriy M
7:01 AM
Hm, does this person really know much about SSIS or XML?
0
A: XML file datatypes and sql equivalent for file import to sql

Paul WhiteThe SQL Server type decimal(20, 0) is large enough for the maximum xml unsigned long value, 18446744073709551615. DECLARE @x xml = N'<e>18446744073709551615</e>'; SELECT @x.value('/e[1] cast as xs:unsignedLong?', 'decimal(20,0)');

 
swasheck
swasheck
doubtful
 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
7:45 AM
@AndriyM He knows XML well enough. Just don't like it much.
 
Paul White
Paul White
Ha!
2
A: Help with SQL Query to XML output

Mikael ErikssonIf you do 'NewID' as [field/@id] you will get a field element with an id attribute. On the next line you add B.ID as [field] ot get the value of ID as the node value to the field node you created on the line before. <field id="NewID">1</field> After that you want a new field node and to create...

 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
8:12 AM
Can't help it. I find stuff like this immensely interesting.
XML variables with the "exact" same content has different performance depending on the way XML was loaded to the variable.
 
Simon Righarts
Simon Righarts
@PaulWhite we really should grab a beer sometime. 'cept I'm heading up north for two weeks on Sunday
 
ypercube
ypercube
8:28 AM
Hi from Zurich
3
 
Paul White
Paul White
8:39 AM
@SimonRigharts Yes we really should. Ping me when you get back. Where you off to?
 
Simon Righarts
Simon Righarts
@PaulWhite Mahia - north end of Hawkes Bay, then Napier. Two weeks of lounging around, food and drink, sunshine and beaches. It's gunna be tough. :)
 
Paul White
Paul White
@SimonRigharts My sister lives in Napier, so I know how tough it can be up there.
You might actually get to see some summer!
@ypercube Hi! Making a deposit? ;)
 
Simon Righarts
Simon Righarts
8:56 AM
@PaulWhite Summer? What is that?
 
Paul White
Paul White
9:37 AM
@MikaelEriksson Seems to be the same root cause as an issue I've written about before
Converting strings to XML over and over and over again is expensive.
 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
10:26 AM
@PaulWhite I don't think so. It has to do with how the data is structured inside the XML variable.
A repro to play with 
declare @N1 varchar(50)
declare @N2 int
declare @X xml

-- 100 row, 10 item per row
set @X =
(
select top(100)
       V.name,
       V.number,
       (
       select top(10) V2.name,
                      V2.number
       from master..spt_values as V2
       for xml path('item'), type
       )
from master..spt_values as V
for xml path('row'), root('root'), type
)

declare @D1 datetime = getdate()

select @N1 = R.X.value('(name/text())[1]', 'varchar(50)'),
       @N2 = R.X.value('(number/text())[1]', 'int'),
The two levels of row/item with the cross apply is necessary to get any difference.
So something to do with how nested item nodes is represented within a row node in the internal format of the XML datatype.
 
Paul White
Paul White
@MikaelEriksson Ooo yes. So converting a generated xml type to nvarchar(max) and back is a good general workaround? Seems so.
 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
Or leave out the ,type in the for xml query.
 
Paul White
Paul White
Well yes.
 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
Then you get a warning in the query plan about an implicit conversion to XML.
 
Paul White
Paul White
Indeed.
 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
10:39 AM
Same thing. The XML loads from a text representation.
 
Andriy M
Andriy M
@MikaelEriksson But you could suppress by introducing explicit conversion, right?
Or would such a warning be a non-issue?
 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
@AndriyM I would not worry about the warning and if you do cast you would still end up with a fast version of the variable when omitting type. The cast to XML does not muck things up.
 
Paul White
Paul White
I always like to be explicit about type conversions.
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
Morning all.
 
Mikael Eriksson
Mikael Eriksson
Morning
 
Paul White
Paul White
10:52 AM
Hi
 
Andriy M
Andriy M
11:06 AM
@PaulWhite That may be because you like your query plans to be perfect, as if they were your dear children – because you deal with QPs often. Any warning in them would probably seem a blemish to you: "Ugh! Where did you get that? Here, use this CAST immediately!"
2
 
Paul White
Paul White
@AndriyM Ha. Yeah. Actually it's more just plain bitter experience. I have wasted so much time and effort over the years diagnosing invisible implicit conversions and related problems, I try very hard to avoid the things in the first place.
6
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
I find that with DW architecture. In many cases I'd rather have a design that's not necessarily optimal for performance, but is easy to test and built to avoid certain failure modes by design.
You can really see the value of design in defect rates. When I were a wee lad straight out of university I was on a VB6/SQL Server project. I built the SP layer for it so it was easy to unit test, and that whole subsystem had just two defects in about 13k lines of T-SQL stored procedure code.
 
Paul White
Paul White
Exactly. The right sort of effort up front pays huge dividends later on.
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
By comparison, the VB6 layer that I did had about 35k lines or so and the defect rate in that part was an order of magnitude higher (we had no technology to do auto unit tests on the GUI).
I had a similar experience at my gig last year. I developed an ETL process and a change capture framework (CDC on the source system wasn't available). About 3/4 of the issues in that turned out to be deployment as opposed to issues in the code. That process was designed to be easily tested and validated, with change capture done using a generic module that could be tested separately.
Performance wasn't great - it took about 3/4 of an hour to run as it had to process a bunch of complex queries over the entire source system, then compare the results to identify changes.
However, it was fast enough, pretty robust and easy to test and reconcile.
And it didn't take all that long to build - maybe a couple of months in total.
 
 
3 hours later…
bluefeet
bluefeet
2:00 PM
morning crickets
 
Lamak
Lamak
morning :-)
 
Kermit
Kermit
@bluefeet how dare you dare me dare you call me a cricket
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
I think @Kermit has lost it
 
Kermit
Kermit
I had chocolate for breakfast #imanadult
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
My fave is cake for breakfast or ice cream
I've had both as an adult
why are you not wearing a hat @Kermit?
 
Kermit
Kermit
2:12 PM
@ypercube Hi from Lake Zurich
@bluefeet i only participate in vertica questions
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
lame
 
Lamak
Lamak
lol
 
Kermit
Kermit
it's a vertica life
@Lamak did you ever hear back about the CM role?
 
Lamak
Lamak
nope
 
Kermit
Kermit
@Lamak bastards
 
Lamak
Lamak
2:18 PM
not even a "thanks for participating"
 
Kermit
Kermit
@Lamak not even a hat?
 
Lamak
Lamak
yeah, damn bastards
@Kermit I should demand one
 
Kermit
Kermit
@Lamak i'll support your campaign
 
Lamak
Lamak
2:55 PM
thanks man
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
We are completely becoming SO
it says incorrect syntax on .key parts of SELECT 1 FROM dbo.target AS t WHERE t.key = s.key would t.IDENTITYCOL = old.IDENTITYCOL accomplish the same thing? — Dust 22 mins ago
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@AaronBertrand It's because I keep telling people to come to DBA. :P
 
Kermit
Kermit
@AaronBertrand woot woot
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
3:10 PM
I made an analogy that even Jeremiah appreciated
 
Lamak
Lamak
you should use a porsche though
 
Kermit
Kermit
@Lamak i wonder where brent will park it
 
Lamak
Lamak
he doesn't need to, he just leaves it there and buy another one
 
ypercube
ypercube
@PaulWhite Yeah. Instead of buying hats. So many internet points ;)
 
billinkc
billinkc
3:29 PM
How do you know it don't work? — billinkc 7 mins ago
 
Lamak
Lamak
@Kermit I should've said "and buys another one", right?
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
WTF
so what i should use now !!! i need to have a column inside the database to check for concurrency conflicts ,, so should i use timestamp or rowversion ? and if i use timestamp ,, what about the MSDN link which mentioned that i should not use it, and if i want to use rowversion i can not !!! so what is the solution ? — john G 3 mins ago
 
Lamak
Lamak
@AaronBertrand he asked the same question on SO
 
swasheck
swasheck
@AaronBertrand some people just want to be dicks, regardless of the mental gymnastics required to achieve the goal
 
Lamak
Lamak
0
Q: Cannot add “rowversion” data type in sql server 2008 r2 management studio, or even to modify existing column data type

john GI want to create a column with Rowversion data type, but inside my SQL Server 2008 R2 Management Studio, I cannot find such a data type: Also when I tried altering existing column named timestamp which is of type timestamp using this statement: ALTER TABLE [SkillManagement].[dbo].[Customer] A...

sql-server sql-server-2008 sql-server-2008-r2 rowversion
I mean, a related question
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
3:33 PM
@AaronBertrand want me to migrate the SO version to me merged?
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@bluefeet yes please
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
here is the migrated one - dba.stackexchange.com/questions/86534/…
 
Lamak
Lamak
but it isn't exactly the same question. From the SO one he got that timestamp and rowversion are the same
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@Lamak the information he got from comments / answers does not change the question.
 
Lamak
Lamak
yeah, that's right
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
3:40 PM
And merging doesn't remove any of that. It just eliminates the redundancy of the question itself.
More fun... where do people even get the idea that they should use something like deleted.%%physloc%%???
0
Q: How to filter out deleted records in a trigger on a table with composite primary key (MSSQL)

Louis SomersI am trying to optimize a trigger on a table in a database from a 3rd party. I am not allowed to change or add any columns to the schema. The table has a composite primary key, one column is an integer, the other is nvarchar. How can I filter out the deleted rows without using a temp table? I ...

sql-server trigger primary-key delete
 
Lamak
Lamak
I just read the merged question, seems good
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
currently we use sql server 2008 r2, but we might decide to use sql server 2012 or maybe newer sql version in the future so i want to make sure i do not face problems ... why you mentioned it does not matter if i use timestamp or rowverion ? — john G 28 secs ago
FUCK. Read.
^^^^ actually don't do the first. Let's keep the gene pool strong.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Is the underlying issue they have a column with a name that is a reserved word?
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
yes i did .. you mean even if i use rowversion , sql serve will map it as timestamp... so shouldi keep using timestamp ? — john G 14 secs ago
@billinkc possibly, but that is only causing an error when he tries to alter the column. The thrust of his question (and 99% of his comments) just seem to be seeking advice for things he hasn't absorbed yet, like why he should use timestamp when the documentation tells him not to.
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
1
Q: Can I sacrifice consistency to allow concurrent 'insert or update' and read access to a single table with SQL Server?

Collin DauphineeI have a table that contains two columns: a resource key, and (very roughly) when it was last accessed. I have a number of servers that are periodically dumping data about resource accesses to the table. They should either update the access time for a resource key if it already exists, or insert...

sql sql-server tsql
isn't MERGE the answer here? ^^^^
 
billinkc
billinkc
3:46 PM
@JackDouglas I got so excited, I thought that was going to be a meta question about whether we can sacrifice SO users
 
Lamak
Lamak
so. much. teeth. pulling
-2
Q: How to combine multiple SQL Queries into one output

user2240189I am having troubles combining multiple queries into one output. Here is my code: SELECT SUM(CASE WHEN answer = 1 THEN 1 ELSE 0 END) AS [Male] FROM answers where questId = 2 SELECT SUM(CASE WHEN answer =2 THEN 1 ELSE 0 END) AS [Alcoholic] FROM answers where questId = 6 SELECT SUM(CASE WHEN a...

sql-server
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@billinkc you should post one on M.SO
 
swasheck
swasheck
i think that it's funny that you folks still try to answer questions
 
billinkc
billinkc
Tempting. But the skin has just started to grow back
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
Yes, let me repeat some things I've already stated multiple times. SQL Server will map rowversion -> timestamp. They are the same thing. If you are using the GUI, you don't have a choice. If you are writing CREATE TABLE scripts, you should use rowversion IMHO, but it's not going to make any difference on current versions of SQL Server, because - again - rowversion just gets mapped to timestamp under the covers anyway. Did I cover everything? Again? — Aaron Bertrand ♦ 12 secs ago
 
swasheck
swasheck
3:49 PM
@JackDouglas MERGE has issues
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
 
swasheck
swasheck
@AaronBertrand some people need to take a reading comprehension test before being allowed to post questions
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
oh, yuckity yuck
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@Jack But it is not single, atomic operation unless you force it to be so using elevated isolation. Ahd there are worse problems, too. Please read this post. I actually persuade all of our customers to avoid MERGE and have even phased it out in a few places where it has been used because of these issues. — Aaron Bertrand 1 min ago
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
thanks @Aaron
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
3:51 PM
MERGE makes implicit promises it can't keep unless you know how to force its hand.
And there are a bunch of lingering bugs that I certainly wouldn't want to be responsible to regression test against.
The old school method may be a few more characters but I can rely on it.
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
why would you do this?
0
Q: Changing a column type and keeping the data

Shems EddineI have a sql server 2005 database where one of the columns is an int. The database is full of data so I can't lose any of the data. I need to change the the of the column from an int to a varchar(50) but this column is used in a lot of stored procedures where they are assigned to variables as i...

sql sql-server-2005
why do I feel that @AaronBertrand's head is going to explode today?
 
Lamak
Lamak
@billinkc do you actually use that color combination in SSMS?
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
I use something similar but a bit less feminine
 
billinkc
billinkc
 
Lamak
Lamak
4:07 PM
how can someone have that much trouble understanding the issue?
but if it is required to have rowversion then i should stop using the designer? second question is this a limitation insdie sql server 2008 R2 management studio , beucase inside my sql server 2012 express there is a datatype named rowversion ... — john G 2 mins ago
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
Who knows. It's like talking to a f*ing wall.
@johnG NO IT DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENT. — Aaron Bertrand ♦ 14 secs ago
 
swasheck
swasheck
VtC --- tip of the iceberg. we can't solve your tangential issues of reading comprehension and basic thought
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@johnG how many times do I need to say that rowversion gets mapped to timestamp? Are we going to do this all day? At what point will you believe me? — Aaron Bertrand ♦ 9 secs ago
 
swasheck
swasheck
@AaronBertrand disengage. he's not worth the heart pills
 
billinkc
billinkc
I wonder if they're trolling
 
swasheck
swasheck
4:10 PM
it's actually brent trolling aaron with a fake account
4
 
billinkc
billinkc
That would be a Christmas gift that would make the Grinch's heart explode
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@swasheck I wish he'd do it on SO!
shall we migrate it there :)
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
Wish I could lock an answer from subsequent comments
 
swasheck
swasheck
please
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
@AaronBertrand you mean without locking voting/editing?
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
4:15 PM
Right. Or even block a certain person from commenting.
 
Shawn Melton
Shawn Melton
That moment when you are writing up an answer and realize you just wrote enough to making it into a good blog post...
 
billinkc
billinkc
I consider SO my blogging engine
2
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
do we want this on dba?
1
Q: SQL Server 2008 R2 - Change Tracking, Database Snapshots, invalid rows

KrystoffI have a system in place where a SQL Server 2008 R2 database is being mirrored to a second server. The database on the first server has change tracking turned on and on the second server we create a database snapshot of the mirror database in order to pull data for an ETL system with the change ...

sql-server sql-server-2008
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
4:31 PM
@billinkc I use SO/SE because I can't be arsed maintaing a blog
 
billinkc
billinkc
You're like the brother I never wanted
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
Indeed, the cool, hip brother who was drinking flat whites before they went mainstream.
 
billinkc
billinkc
I drink jaded black to match your soul
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
Are you implying that my decade or two working in I.T. might have made me slightly cynical?
Not quite glass half full?
Perhaps even 'not a team player?'
 
billinkc
billinkc
I do find that I am far more cynical about employment and employers after having been burnt.
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
4:45 PM
@billinkc Yes. I used to be ever so bright eyed and bushy tailed. However, I've been burned a number of times too.
Today's Economist has an ad for network switches on page 7. Of course the switch is called 'CloudEngine' as opposed to something meaningful like 'network switch'.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Huh, underwriting data for life insurance policies. They store this data ... poorly
Floats everywhere. Column name ties back to a MetaData table. ALQ130 is clearly the number of alcoholic drinks per day in the past 12 months
I'm sure the app they use keeps all this nice and tidy with some ORM
We must have Wilt Chamberlain's policy here. Number of sexual partners, 99999
 
James
James
Today SAP is timing out. Thankfully we have a SAP consultant here to insist the problem must be index fragmentation on tables with fewer than 1 million rows.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Just imagine if it was 1.01 million rows
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@billinkc Most policy admin systems have pretty crap data quality.
 
billinkc
billinkc
Besides the increase in licensing fees
 
Kermit
Kermit
5:04 PM
Anyone going to visit the Guantanamo Bay gift shop?
 
James
James
@Kermit Is that where the embassy is going to be?
 
Kermit
Kermit
@James makes the most sense
 
swasheck
swasheck
stupid excel
 
Zane
Zane
it really is the worst.
 
swasheck
swasheck
CANT EXECUTE STORED PROCEDURES WITH PARAMETER PROMPTS!!!!!!!!!
 
billinkc
billinkc
5:17 PM
It sounds like you're trying to make it performant. Perhaps you meant SELECT * FROM ALL_TABLES
 
Lamak
Lamak
@swasheck why are you executing sps from excel?
powersomething?
 
billinkc
billinkc
PowerSomething, the hit comedy about a team of independent professionals trying to balance the ability to deliver for their customers without sacrificing their servers. Coming to you, every day of your life
 
Lamak
Lamak
you should make it happen
 
swasheck
swasheck
@Lamak trying to empower the end-user
 
Lamak
Lamak
ah, see?, you should give them nothing, but take from them EVERYTHING
 
billinkc
billinkc
5:29 PM
@Lamak At last, you are ready for America
 
Lamak
Lamak
finally
 
billinkc
billinkc
Remember, if the baby is not strong enough to hold onto its lollypop, you're allowed to take it
 
Lamak
Lamak
but the baby might then shoot me
 
billinkc
billinkc
The risk is worth the reward
 
Lamak
Lamak
that might be true
 
Zane
Zane
5:43 PM
@Lamak you could always steal the babies gun first.
 
Lamak
Lamak
yeah, I have the whole thing planned out
first, I cover the sun
 
Zane
Zane
Erg I'm trying to come up with a better way to automate our data lineage and it's proving tricky.
 
Zane
Zane
6:32 PM
How do you guys track that sort of thing.
 
Kermit
Kermit
What is data lineage?
 
swasheck
swasheck
6:56 PM
HOW IS BABBY FORMED?
 
JNK
JNK
How do I shot web
 
billinkc
billinkc
I accidentally all the data
 
Zane
Zane
F this noise I'm going to eat some lasagna.
 
swasheck
swasheck
screw you guys, i'm goin' home
 
billinkc
billinkc
MS had announced a project out of MS Research that was going to be the cool data lineage tool. It has since been expunged from the web. Seems it's a hard problem to solve well
Whoa, I just made the big leagues
> I wish to discuss a very confidential project with you
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:22 PM
@billinkc welcome to the recruiter spam show
 
billinkc
billinkc
Was that intended to be a reference to "Independence Day?"
 
swasheck
swasheck
eh?
 
Kermit
Kermit
i have a hat
 
billinkc
billinkc
Well done Comrade
We will show those Capitalist dogs who is boss
 
Kermit
Kermit
Can't wait to get some Cuban cigars
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
7:26 PM
@Kermit you and everyone else
 
Kermit
Kermit
@bluefeet should i take a number?
 
swasheck
swasheck
faux news (money ed.) is calling it an attack against capitalism
 
bluefeet
bluefeet
@Kermit yes probably. But you can exclude me from that list
 
Kermit
Kermit
@bluefeet i'll +1 you
 
billinkc
billinkc
I will take up smoking just to spite the two of you
 
swasheck
swasheck
7:31 PM
how noble
 
billinkc
billinkc
I do look rather regal in this velour smoking jacket
@swasheck Data's scientist character: welcome to the freak show
Also, I can't find diddly on youtube anymore
 
swasheck
swasheck
oh yeahh
 
billinkc
billinkc
Implied foreign keys are the best
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
7:53 PM
@billinkc That sounds like something an evil DB clippy would say.
@Zane You can use some repository tools. EA can do it at an individual field level but the UI to enter it is really clicky and tedious. However, there is a fairly good COM API that would let you load mappings directly into the repository from a source like a spreadsheet.
 
billinkc
billinkc
EA?
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
Powerdesigner comes with a data lineage/ETL specification metamodel but it's an order of magnitude more expensive than EA
@billinkc Enterprise architect.
If you're feeling really keen - as in keen enough to go rolling your own ActiveX controls - you can build extensions to EA that hook into its GUI.
However, for the amount of sodding around needed to do that you might be better off just getting PowerDesigner.
X88 Pandora also has a good data lineage facility. You can make up any sort of hacky, convoluted process within the tool and it has a facility that will convert it to a minimal 'normal form'. However, Pandora is about £15k per seat.
 
billinkc
billinkc
15 pounds per seat, that's not baaa. Oh. I should really get my eyes examined
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
Most people just use Excel, although it's really clumsy for anything more complex than straight 1:1 mapping.
Could you do anything clever with BIML?
 
billinkc
billinkc
They've got new things in the tool for modeling and such. I can't remember whether there was a lineage feature
To be honest, when people go all nuts over data lineage, I usually glaze over as it's never seemed a compelling feature. Perhaps I misunderstand the usage
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
8:03 PM
Depends on what they mean.
If you're doing a mapping reference document so people can see the data flows then you need some way of documenting it. This sort of thing is quite a big deal in financial services so you can prove you know how your management information is derived.
 
billinkc
billinkc
If it's not tribal knowledge, it's no good
(for job security)
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
The other meaning used with this term is essentially tagging each row in your data with a data source and source key and making sure that the grain of the data is preserved so you can trace individual DB transactions back to source.
Essentially column-based data lineage vs. row-based data lineage.
Maybe @Zane could comment about the specifics of what he's trying to achieve.
 
billinkc
billinkc
8:18 PM
Must be some fabulous lasagne
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@billinkc Indeed. It beats out data lineage.
 
billinkc
billinkc
I just followed a link to learn what exactly a "tea length dress" was. Don't know that I have a clue after reading the "article" but I regret the ads that are sure to follow
 
James
James
@billinkc Is this a British term?
 
billinkc
billinkc
I wouldn't think so. It was used in a mailing from my boy's school about the charity auction being HS Prom themed which implies a certain vintage
 
swasheck
swasheck
8:34 PM
@billinkc alternative to a kilt
 
billinkc
billinkc
Nope, a kilt is shorter than a tea length dress, which should hit about mid calf
whereas the kilt should just barely brush the ground if you were to be kneeling
 
swasheck
swasheck
i'm just telling you that you can change up your skirts if you want to try something different
 
billinkc
billinkc
I would be interested in a ... pacific island garb. I think it was Samaon. Similar concept to a kilt
 
billinkc
billinkc
9:18 PM
If anyone wants to GIMMIE DA CODEZ, I'm open to it
Nevermind, I'm biting the bullet and using charindex
 
swasheck
swasheck
9:43 PM
soooo ... updates included in CU1 are also included in CU4 (SQL 2014), right?
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
yes, cumulative updates
 
Jack Douglas
Jack Douglas
this is horrible: mis.fortunecook.ie
 
swasheck
swasheck
@AaronBertrand brandon just made the same point to me. i just wanted to make sure i wasnt making too large of an assumption
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@billinkc Is this what you mean? sqlfiddle.com/#!3/2e065/8
 
billinkc
billinkc
Yup, looking at your to see if I like it better
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
9:53 PM
@billinkc It's called a Lava Lava
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@billinkc I am sorry your data model is so terrible
 
billinkc
billinkc
@AaronBertrand So say we all
My original and lazy solution was to add the key into the value. It was deleted and recreated in the source system but we can't delete from the DW because ... because. But since that "number" needs to be unique, we have to get the old one out of the way
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
weird
 
billinkc
billinkc
Thus, we'd have had 210012.999.100 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000010 etc in there but noo, that's not user friendly
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
Lava-lava
A lava-lava is an article of daily clothing traditionally worn by Polynesians and other Oceanic peoples. It consists of a single rectangular cloth worn as a skirt. The term lava-lava is both singular and plural in the Samoan language. == Customary use == Today the fashion remains common in Samoa, American Samoa, Tonga and parts of Melanesia and Micronesia. It is worn by men and women in uses from school uniforms to business attire with a suit jacket and tie. Many people of Oceanic ethnicity wear the lava-lava as an expression of cultural identity and for comfort within expatriate communit...
 
billinkc
billinkc
9:55 PM
At which point, I think I should go to the bank so I can wipe the tears away with their money
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Appreciated. Wasn't sure if you were trolling and suggesting I should wrap myself in lava. Although there is a video of a person stepping on lava and not being Smeagol'ed so I guess for very quick exposure, it's a risk I'm not willing to take
 
swasheck
swasheck
OMGWTF?!
> FIX: Parallel deadlock or self-deadlock occurs when you run a query that results in parallelism in SQL Server
> This issue occurs when parallelism is allowed at server or query level.

(Process ID 85) was deadlocked on thread | communication buffer resources with another process and has been chosen as the deadlock victim. Rerun the transaction.
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@billinkc I can probably find you a shop somewhere in South Auckland that will sell you one for about 20 kiwi pesos.
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@swasheck I wasn't trying to be chicken little here but sqlblog.com/blogs/aaron_bertrand/archive/2009/03/21/…
 
billinkc
billinkc
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells I'll worry about it whenever I visit
But thank you
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
This is a local auction site similar to Ebay.
 
swasheck
swasheck
10:01 PM
@AaronBertrand reading the CU hotfix descriptions is horrifying
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
Closer to $NZ30 than $20 but close enough.
 
billinkc
billinkc
The lava-lava got me to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pe%27a which has a photo of a heavily tattoo'ed man's backside in it.
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
@swasheck you know how an ostrich might deal with that problem...
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
There's another one
 
billinkc
billinkc
That'd look pretty freaking awesome but one tattoo is plenty. Plus, I'd be the big white poseur doing something like that. Also, not in shape
 
swasheck
swasheck
10:04 PM
@AaronBertrand fortunately, the actual descriptions can talk that ostrich off the cliff - except the parallelism description
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
Also why are you installing CU4? You know CU5 has an additional 56 fixes, right?
 
swasheck
swasheck
i'm not. i'm just looking through all of them.
i hadnt gotten to cu5 yet :)
 
Aaron Bertrand
Aaron Bertrand
oh ok
 
swasheck
swasheck
yay
 
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
@billinkc Plus, no-one here really wants to see your bottom - with or without tattoos.
The coating started coming off the touchpad on my computer the other day. I found a howto about replacing it with stick-on vinyl - and bugger me if it doesn't work quite well.
 
billinkc
billinkc
10:47 PM
I have no idea what these people are doing, but they managed to bork my permissions in the dev cube environment daily. And completely lock up the service such that it takes a reset to right it
 
James
James
My guess is they are doing a project deploy
 
swasheck
swasheck
11:05 PM
ugh. i need to turn off automatic disk defrag on my sql servers, right?
 
Shawn Melton
Shawn Melton
at least for drives that have database on them.
 
swasheck
swasheck
prozactly
 

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