The Overlook Hotel

Nathan C. Tresch

5:07 AM

@NeilFein Will you just delete the question of mine I flagged?

Jed Oliver

I think two questions on metaphor at once may have been a bit much. The other one seems to be gaining traction though.

Nathan C. Tresch

Eh.

I didn't ask them because I wanted an answer.

So, we should just delete the one that's not useful.

Jed Oliver

I think this is why we need to be able to create draft versions of questions.

oh well. next time

Nathan C. Tresch

Well, I asked them because we need more questions on the site, but obviously we dont need questions that other people think aren't useful.

Jed Oliver

this is true

we do. If we can have the core 5-10 power users ask 1 question a day, we would graduate in no time

Nathan C. Tresch

5:12 AM

(I thought it was a perfectly fine question, I'm not sure how it's considered not useful, but, w/e.)

Jed Oliver

Well, I'm just going to chalk it up to two questions on metaphor at the same time

ask it next week. close it for now, open it later

Nathan C. Tresch

Well, I chalk it up to elitism, and I really don't think it will do any better later. ;)

Jed Oliver

meh. I think it was a fine question. I was going to metaphorize an answer for it and then I saw the 81-year-old Portuguese answer on the other one, and then I said to myself, "I can't top that."

Jed Oliver

5:47 AM

Just added another question

Nathan C. Tresch

6:00 AM

0

A: Creating metaphors in poetry

To quickly generate metaphors I grab my thesaurus and I find words that mean the same thing as the concept I'm trying to metaphorize. I tend to pick out words that do not sound at all similar despite having the same meaning. After I have a collection of words as a baseline, I write a sentance e...

FWIW, I knew a possible answer when I asked

But I wanted more ways

Jed Oliver

6:15 AM

Well, answering your own questions can be a good way to earn rep. You can get the upvotes from the question AND the answer.

But I like making my metaphors like I'm making factor trees in prealgebra

List all the objective and subjective qualities of a thing

Then pick one of those qualities and find something else with that quality. If theres enough even remotely similar - there's your metaphor

At any rate, have a good evening

Nathan C. Tresch

You too! I feel a little bad, like I baited and switched on the other guy that answered. I didn't expect anyone to say "NO, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE"

Standback

8:22 AM

@NathanCTresch: I saw your flag, and also your answer. I see now what you were going for :)

I'd say leave the question open for now, if you're OK with that.

The opinions Aerovistae and I expressed are just that: opinions.

Voting gives you a sense of who agrees with which opinions (including your own, in asking the question).

Give it a bit more time, and you'll get more feedback in both directions. I prefer not to close unilaterally when the case isn't clear-cut - that's what the community's for :D At any rate, a single downvote isn't exactly a mark of shame - it's nothing to get too concerned over.

(Generally speaking, there's a major difference between a question that should be closed, and a question that gets downvoted.)

That sound OK to you?

Nathan C. Tresch

1:12 PM

@Standback Well, of course it's fine with me

@Standback Also, I wasn't sure how to ask without leading, I didn't want another example of exactly what I had learned. The only reason I wanted to close it was that I felt like it must not be a useful question to others. If you think we should wait I'd be more than happy to :D

Nathan C. Tresch

1:31 PM

@Standback As for my concern that I pulled some kind of a bait and switch, did I? Was it rude?

Nathan C. Tresch

1:59 PM

Also, it's time for everyone to wake up and join me in this!!!

Standback

@NathanCTresch: I'm not quite sure what you mean by describing this as a "bait and switch".

furthermore, join you in what?

(not in wanting to close your question, right?)

Nathan C. Tresch

Well, I asked a question that I had an answer to and I didn't share that, so, the guy who said "No" may now feel like I've embarrassed him

Heheheh no,

In this chat

JOIN ME IN THIS CHAT!!!

:)

If you think that it's worth keeping open, I'm fine with that, I didnt want to be rude by leaving a question open that wasn't worthy

Does that make sense?

Standback

No worries :)

Nathan C. Tresch

Manners are very important to me. :)

Standback

Much appreciated. On SE and here in particular, what's on- and off-topic can be hotly contested, but very politely. :) Everybody has their own opinion; the system keeps everything pretty much balanced; and we all fumble along one way or another . :D

Nathan C. Tresch

3:08 PM

nathantresch.wordpress.com/2012/05/04/…

Post for the day on my blog.. I might make more today, or work on my short

If anyone would read it and give me feedback I'd be appreciateive

Nathan C. Tresch

4:30 PM

Okay, this is just sad.

Nathan C. Tresch

5:00 PM

nathantresch.wordpress.com/2012/05/04/…

Advertising

Neil Fein

5:22 PM

@NathanCTresch- Nice!

About the downvote: I agree with Standback, a single downvote isn't a huge thing. Just learn from it and move on. (Easier said than done, of course; my first DV was on Super User, and I felt like crap.)

Nathan C. Tresch

5:39 PM

I've been downvoted many times

On ELU and Skeptics both

It's just that I care here

ANd I dont want to leave something hanging around if it's not useful

5

Q: Cite an entire paragraph

How to cite an entire paragraph taken from a book? Is it just writing the paragraph as a separate one and adding (Author, Year) in the end? Will it not imply that only the last sentence in the paragraph is written by that reference?

I know there is an accepted answer, but I added a citation from the actual APA guide

I dont have the MLA guide hand

Nathan C. Tresch

6:00 PM

I'm going to die if this room doesnt get more active.

Neil Fein

No, you're not. Because you're the king of Writers chat. :)

And the King can't die.

I do not permit it.

Keep in mind, not all sites have amazingly active chat rooms. This place is more lively than Bicycles's chat, and they launched last year.

Nathan C. Tresch

hahahahah lol <3 <3 <3

Its good to be the king, my friend. :D

ITs also at least as lively as skeptics, tbh

Neil Fein

I like SE because it's asynchronous, actually; I can get to it when I have a few minutes. Chat isn't like that.

You've gotta keep the window open.

Nathan C. Tresch

actually you dont, when you log back in you can read the backscroll

It's based on IRC

Oh

I misread it isnt

Hahah what a horrible decisio

Decision

"I know, instead of using this amazing chat protocol that's stable and has been around for years and years, longer than HTTP, lets make our own!!!"

Neil Fein

There's an FAQ about that somewhere, and there's a question "why don't you guys just use IRC?"

The answer is vague.

Ah, here it is: chat.stackexchange.com/faq#irc Second Q from the bottom.

@NathanCTresch - I've never actually used IRC that I can remember. Is this chat any better/worse/different?

Nathan C. Tresch

6:14 PM

Its better in some regards, worse that I'm forced to use a shitty ajax website

That's slow and a memory hog

I was just irritated by that fine gentleman's assertions and I slipped into the vernacular I was raised with.

Dang it,

Neil Fein

:D

Nathan C. Tresch

Hahahahah

Nathan C. Tresch

8:45 PM

Zzzzzzzz.....

I'm going to think about more ways to promote us.

Jed Oliver

8:56 PM

What's up with that 10 minutes of redacted messages ... or do I not want to know

Neil Fein

9:22 PM

@JedOliver - We were talking about you and saying how much we hate you with the heat of a thousand burning suns.

>:)

Jed Oliver

9:43 PM

@NeilFein See, that's exactly what I thought =)

Nathan C. Tresch

10:06 PM

@NeilFein I was guilty of being an ass, and out of respect my fine friend here deleted it for me. I wasn't saying anything about anyone here. ;)

Hm. I want to downvote this guy's answer. writers.stackexchange.com/questions/5579/…

I might.

One, he doesnt actually say anything that the other two dont say, two he offers advice that wasn't asked for, (RUDE and I really hate that beyond belief,) and three, he asserts that there isn't a proper way to do things with words.

Jed Oliver

Nathan C. Tresch

If you don't you'll be asking to get ripped off :)

I would never post anything I had written that I intended to have published without that

Jed Oliver

I made the mistake of Googling [stack exchange+copyright+creative commons]. Don't do that.

I won't. Violates the nature of the site. But I think that's what I'll do if and when I decide to subject my creative product to public ridicule.

@NathanCTresch Well, I think he's just saying that writing, like all other art forms, has no 'right' or 'wrong' way of doing things. Which, IMHO, is a valid point.

Writing falls into that wonderful category of being both an art and a science. The structure and format is very important to clarify and ensure the proper transition of thoughts from one person to another

2

And then you have that beautiful art of poetry and prose where the meaning of words becomes much more esoteric. It's subjective and personal.

Nathan C. Tresch

10:23 PM

The first two points are still valid.

;)

Unless I'm mistaken, that's considered not helpful, when you post the same information as someone else afterwards?

Neil Fein

@NathanCTresch - If you like, tell him in comments what you think, or direct him here.

Jed Oliver

Yes and no.

Neil Fein

Posting similar answers is fine, but it can be rude if it's close to copypasta.

Nathan C. Tresch

Wow, he did it again. :P

Neil Fein

But go easy on the noobs, okay? :)

Nathan C. Tresch

10:24 PM

2

Q: Are contests an effective way to gauge the quality of your writing?

I'm gearing up to start writing after a bit of a hiatus. But rather than just jump in and start on a novel (which will take several months, at best, to create and even then it might not be very good) I thought I'd start by trying my hand at a few short stories. One way that I'd like to see if th...

short-story contests flash-fiction

Sure.

On scifi I would have downvoted and torn into him, that was why I asked

Jed Oliver

If there's an answer that is right but for the wrong reason I may write my own answer, if so inclined.

Nathan C. Tresch

Am I wrong? If everyone did this we'd have 3932498320 useless answers, right?

Neil Fein

So help him improve his answer. Make suggestions. But let's give him a chance.

Nathan C. Tresch

@JedOliver Same. I also make answers that give additional information

@NeilFein of cours!

Course!

Neil Fein

If he posts bad answers, they won't be upvoted (or they'll be downvoted) and the problem will solve itself.

Nathan C. Tresch

10:26 PM

On this site I'm not going to be a jerk, it's not the place.

Jed Oliver

If there's an answer that needs a little more meat or clarification (or is just bad advice), I'll add a comment instead

Neil Fein

My god, if only there were some mechanism in place here where people could vote answers up and down, and the best ones would rise to the top.

Jed Oliver

I'd rather improve an answer, esp of someone with low rep, then reap the glory for myself.

Neil Fein

:)

Jed Oliver

But that's just me

Nathan C. Tresch

10:28 PM

I made a comment

And didnt downvote

Jed Oliver

@NeilFein Isn't that reddit? Oh wait, I thought we were voting on videos of cats jumping into boxes...

Neil Fein

Jed Oliver

@NathanCTresch Yeah. Probably not a good idea to lay the smackdown on a guy with "1" rep as his first answr to something on a site we're trying to grow.

Just my 2c

Neil Fein

@JedOliver - Oh, I've done it many times.

Not here just yet, though. And only when the answer is wrong, wrong, wrong. Or is not an answer at all. (In that last case, if they're short, we can convert to comment, no biggie.)

Nathan C. Tresch

If this was scifi I'd probably try my best to run him off so he wouldn't copy my answers and steal rep by doing it right after me and getting the check. :D

Jed Oliver

10:32 PM

Well, maybe if it's one if those guys who likes to talk as if he's an 3lite h4x0r

Nathan C. Tresch

Nah, he definitely writes fairly well

Neil Fein

Oh, those I just edit into comprehensibility, or vote to delete, or whetever.

Or flag.

But there's no excuse for bad writing on this site. None at all.

We're goddamn writers.

Jed Oliver

That is one thing that makes this much MUCH better than EL&U. We can write.

Nathan C. Tresch

Agreed.

Doing my daily questions now

Jed Oliver

I swear for every one good question on ELU there's 9 that are just non-native speakers who are having troubles with idioms, homonyms, hyperbole & all the other special things that make English awesome

which I didn't think EL&U was for.

I thought it was for "linguists, etymologists, and (serious) English language enthusiasts." I guess I was wrong.

but no matter.

On a partial tangent...

Anyone ever write a really good answer to a question, then the question changed, making your answer terrible which proceeded to cause it to be down-voted into oblivion, and so you edit it to reflect the new direction the question went in, only to be down-voted even more for editing your answer?

Nathan C. Tresch

10:45 PM

@JedOliver Yes, and then 5 other non native speakers all explain the idiom completely wrong, and I get downvoted and told I'm mistaken for explaining it correctly, and the asker accepts the highest vote getter and likely complete;y embarasses himself. :P

Jed Oliver

Or am I the only one?

Nathan C. Tresch

I have had the first happen, but never the second.

That seems like an ELU thing.

Am I right?

That place is .... :P

Jed Oliver

@NathanCTresch someone yesterday in EL&U said someone was stupid and wrong because he asked why midnight is 12:00am instead of 00:00 or 12:00pm (because it's preceded by 11:00pm). I was kinda with him until he said the right way to write it was 0,00 or 12,00am. And them I'm like, "I know I'm not the only person here who isn't an idiot. Where is everyone else?"

0

Q: Published authors: How many times did you have to submit and be rejected before you got published?

It is what it is. I understand that I'm going to be rejected, maybe a great many times before I'm accepted. I'm hoping to get an idea of what others have gone through. Thanks!

marketing submitting-work submission-tracking

I like this question. I hope it isn't a duplicate.

@NathanCTresch I try not be be too harsh on them. I know I shitty I felt in my HS Spanish class when all the native speakers were laughing at my accent and complete inability to conjugate or understand their idioms. Then again I don't go into Spanish language chat rooms and say, "You're doing it wrong!"

Nathan C. Tresch

11:02 PM

@JedOliver Yeah, that's what I'm saying, ELU is weird. I don't understand it at all.

0

A: "Nation": place or people?

From the Merriam-Webster dictionary: Definition of NATION (1) : nationality (2) : a politically organized nationality (3) : a non-Jewish nationality b : a community of people composed of one or more nationalities and possessing a more or less defined territory and government c...

I'm trying again because you;'re talling about it.

I expect to get downvoted for the right answer

there are like 4 or 5 answers and I'm the only one with a good dictionary citation

Jed Oliver

I was just looking at that

There are days when I wish EL&U was a real room, just so I could get on the loudspeaker and say, "I AIN'T YOUR GOOGLE BITCH!", which would be wrong and totally inappropriate.

Nathan C. Tresch

His problem is he listens to croudsourcing

Jed Oliver

You've been upvoted and I added a comment (to the OP. Not you.)

Aaaaand now you have a comment

Because we know how Writers responds to questions on metaphor use

Nathan C. Tresch

11:21 PM

I just added your text to my answer for the OP

Jed Oliver

I see that

Nathan C. Tresch

:)

Jed Oliver

See, we made an opportunity there

Nathan C. Tresch

Yes, I'll stay there until such time as I get frustrated beyond belief again. ;)

Jed Oliver

See you in five minutes :)

Nathan C. Tresch

11:40 PM

Damn it

Jed Oliver

Lemme guess: You made it 10 whole minutes until rageface.jpg?

Nathan C. Tresch

No, my question was a list style answer

Which was true

So I edited the quesiton

@NeilFein I edited it, can you reopen?

Jed Oliver

awww... closersville

Nathan C. Tresch

Well, it will be re-opened

My edit was good, IMNSHO.

Jed Oliver

Jesus, with that many edits, why not just close and reopen. I think you may get a badge for voting to close your own posts, if that means anything

erm, write a new question, not reopen, that is

Nathan C. Tresch

11:49 PM

0

Q: What does 'beyond' mean in the following?

I know, beyond just means outside a limit or further away. E.g. when I say something is beyond compare, it means it cannot be compared to anything. But in the following, I'm not sure if I understand what does each of these phrases really mean Beyond good Beyond bad Beyond evil If something i...

meaning meaning-in-context sentence words

So, should I add this to my answer: As an aside, if you want more explanation of idiomatic usage and metaphors in general, at writers.stackexchange.com we do a lot of discussion about those topics.

?

@JedOliver what do you think?

Jed Oliver

hmmm

Nathan C. Tresch

Also, the first answerer is wrong

Jed Oliver

Don't use we. Sound like you're recruiting. make it sound like an aside. Like "Hey, I'm in the cool kids club. You probably haven't heard of it.

Nathan C. Tresch

Obviously he's asking about the idiomatic usage

This is what pisses me off about that place, right there.

So, As an aside, if you want more explanation of idiomatic usage and metaphors in general, at writers.stackexchange.com there is a lot of discussion about those topics.

Maybe that?

Jed Oliver

On that one, I wouldn't bother. He's not trying to write something, he's trying to read something and doesn't understand the usage of the word beyond.

On the other one, he was failing at creating an effective metaphor, which is why he needs to go to writers. Or should.

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