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2:56 PM
Hello boys and girls, robots and mushrooms... hope you are all well at the start of this new week!
 
Hi.
Not really.
 
@Mien I am sorry to hear that, what is wrong?
 
Normally, I have to hand in my thesis on May 21.
However, I just read that we have to bind it etc, so I guess it should be ready on May 17 or sooner... :s
that is quite a difference for me.
I have still a lot to do.
 
In 2013, you have to bind a thesis? Why not just send it in electronically?
Here in the US we have a chain of 24 hour per day shops that do that sort of thing, they always have big stores in college towns.
And can you not just buy binders and such now at an office supply store so you will have them when you are done?
 
This is Belgium. Here are no 24 hour shops.
The day before the 21st, is a holiday, so everything is closed, just like the day before that, a Sunday.
 
3:05 PM
But what if you get hungry at 3:00 in the morning?!!?
 
We have to upload one version and hand in 5 binded versions.
 
"bound" :-)
 
We have some nightshops, but they are quite expensive and don't sell real food. Also, I think they close around 3 or when they want :P
 
Can you buy 5 binder kits now? And then when you are done, you just have to print the pages and put them in?
 
@SAJ14SAJ Ah thanks.
@SAJ14SAJ No, because it has to follow certain guidelines, recycled paper, cardboard front and back cover etc. I cant do this myself...
Oh well.
 
3:07 PM
That is just crazy!
What is your thesis about?
 
stereoscopic 3D
 
Oh, yes, you did tell me. And your data is collected. have you finished analyzing?
 
No, I keep postponing that fsr...
I will just finish my introduction and method section first, then analyze.
 
Then I should not talk to you, so you can work :-(
 
No problem, I'm taking a break.
 
3:13 PM
Is chocolate involved?
 
3:30 PM
No, playing Portal 2. :P
 
:-)
 
3:56 PM
I made the best hollandaise sauce evar! And as a bonus it was also the easiest.
Served on fish and roasted broccoli. It was very good.
 
@sob Cool :-)
 
4:13 PM
Why do you call it the easiest?
It's from a packet? That does not sound like you.
 
Packets are scary!
 
4:51 PM
@ElendilTheTall Hello... hoping you see this. You know that steak is normally considered a high-heat method grilled item, and as is pizza, not low and slow smoked barbecue....
 
@SAJ14SAJ wait, was he going to slow smoke a ribeye or something?
 
@derobert The question seems to be straddling bbq and grilling. Its like "what can I do with a weber"
0
Q: What do I need to get started with American style Barbecue?

ElendilTheTallWith summer on the way here in the UK, I'd like to start trying some American style BBQ - ribs, pulled pork, brisket etc. as well as perhaps the odd steak and even pizza - with a relatively limited budget. I had originally looked at a hot smoker like this, but I've also read that you can use a st...

On first read, I thought he meant low and slow bbq, but then I saw the steak and pizza comment on second read.
 
ah, I see. low & slow pizza would be very weird
 
Thus my confusion
 
 
1 hour later…
6:10 PM
@rumtscho give me a yell if you're here please.
 
7:10 PM
@mien I am here
hope I'm not too late
 
7:40 PM
@rumtscho seems you are. Unless she just wanted confirmation you're still alive.
she was playing Portal, after all. Possible.
But good news! Wheezy is out. Upgrade time. Oh so many upgrades to do.
 
@derobert Are you upgrading "comfortably" or from scratch?
 
not sure what you mean...?
 
I mean that I have been installing each new OS version from scratch for the last few years because there always was something broken. But apt should be able to update the OS from inside the old install.
 
oh... Debian is pretty much always upgraded w/o reinstall.
The only time I've had to do a re-install to upgrade was when I switched from x86 to amd64
(and, as of Wheezy, I think that's no longer needed)
 
@derobert I would not trust an OS called "Wheezy"
 
7:46 PM
So, all of your installed applications, settings changes, etc. should stay untouched? This sounds very comfortable to me :)
 
@rumtscho yes, though of course sometimes you have to update things because the new version doesn't understand the old config file
@SAJ14SAJ Well, it's actually called Debian. Or Debian GNU/Linux. Wheezy is release codename.
 
@derobert I think my point is made :-) :-)
 
@SAJ14SAJ Well, you're running one that's codenamed what, Blackcomb?
 
I haven't the slightest idea, really.
@ElendilTheTall hey!
 
or maybe Whistler?
 
7:50 PM
Evening all
 
Could be worse. Could be codenamed "butt headed astronomer" :-P
 
@ElendilTheTall What kind of barbequing or grilling were you hoping to do? 'merican style is a pretty big hodge podge. And the average is very low ;-)
 
He is running an OS which has been kept backwards compatible to its 18-years-old predecessor. That's what I find scary.
 
... or "Longhorn"
 
@rumtscho POSIX QED
 
7:51 PM
@saj14saj low and slow mainly
Pulled pork, ribs etc
 
@ElendilTheTall Then things like steak and pizza are pretty much right out.
You can do it with a webber kettle, a smoke source, and a heat source. And meat. That is pretty much all you need.
 
Is it easier with a more specialised smoker though?
 
I think Mac OS X is the only major desktop OS which isn't compatible with ancient stuff.
 
Probably but I would advise spending the money on it until you know you really like the practice and the hobbey as well as the results.
 
@ElendilTheTall did you see that blog post?
 
7:53 PM
In one of the first season episodes, IIRC, Alton Brown smoked a salmon in a cardboard box.
 
@derobert yes
 
Its mostly about patience and fire managmeent. I would also recommend the kind of bbq thermometer you can hang down through the smoke holes. Its pretty much an oven thermometer with a probe on.
 
A dedicated smoker isn't much more expensive than a Weber grill
 
Oh, you have not already bought this beastie? The thing is, the kettle is far more flexible normally.
It is also ideal for... well... high heat grilling.
 
Indeed
 
7:56 PM
Or a simple "cookout" style without doing the low and slow.
 
@SAJ14SAJ yeah, those are fry(-er) thermometers
or candy thermometers, same thing usually
 
I think grill in UK means broil here. So I don't know what words to use to distinguish these cooking methods. Except grilling really is upside down broiling, so maybe grilling will do.
 
@derobert I always used the immersion kind of candy/fryer thermometer.
 
We just call it barbecue.
But low and slow BBQ is virtually unheard of
 
7:57 PM
@ElendilTheTall Which doesn't mean... well... "barbecue" in the low and slow sense here.
There are about 10000 guides on the internet.
 
@SAJ14SAJ wait, there thermometer you put in the sugar, as opposed to just the probe in the sugar?!
 
Probably 200 of them are really good. This is not my core area of expertise, as there are very few bbq'ed muffins.
@derobert Absolutely... probe thermometers a fairly new thing
 
@derobert This is my current model, I think.
 
... those are new?
 
7:58 PM
 
oh, right, I guess I have seen that type
 
@SAJ14SAJ I have one like that and I've actually worn all the numbers off. :(
I use it a lot.
 
From my grandmother, I have one like this
 
@SAJ14SAJ Those are cheap but they break extremely easily.
 
I can get a standard issue Weber clone for about £25 for high heat grilling
So I am erring towards a smoker.
 
8:00 PM
@derobert probe ones in the retail market, maybe 20 years or so. Certainly in my cooking lifetime. Whereas most kitchen equipment goes back far longer. So relatively new.
@ElendilTheTall Smoked meat is fantastically wonderful.
I recommend starting with Pork Butt. it is the most forgiving.
And most delicious in my view.
 
@ElendilTheTall speaking of clones, I have been thinking of getting a mixer which can stand on its own. I think you had a Kitchenaid clone - how do you find it?
 
@SAJ14SAJ Wait... you mean relative to humanity's history of using heat to prepare food?!
 
But there are the religious arguments to settle.
 
I'm pretty sure the probe ones are more than 20 years old. My parents had one when I was a kid, and it wasn't new...
 
@SAJ14SAJ Pork is good- if cheap and sloppy. Brisket is actually a masterpiece when done right.
 
8:01 PM
@Sobachatina No, I mean relative to the history of most appliances which go back to the 1930s or so in their modern incarnation. Or the 1950s for popularity.
@Sobachatina Brisket is for experts, and texans. And I agree, done right it is sublime, but much harder to do right without braising.
 
@ElendilTheTall the problem with a lot of cheap smokers is that they're apparently crap
 
@SAJ14SAJ I was trying to start a fight and you're being all level headed about it.
 
@derobert what do you call cheap?
 
@derobert Smokers don't have to be much- you can do low smoking in a cardboard box.
 
@Sobachatina I like ALL kinds of barbecue, even memphas and Tenneesee.
@Sobachatina This will be hot smoking, though, so the box is a little harder :-)
 
8:03 PM
@rumtscho very happy with it
 
@ElendilTheTall <$100, i.e., around the price of a Weber kettle
 
It's great actually
 
@Sobachatina I have eaten bbq at Good and Co. in houston. That is some eating :-)
 
@SAJ14SAJ Yep. So do I. It just is fun to see people get riled up about meat.
 
Its not so much a kitchen aid clone as a rebadged kitchenaid
 
8:03 PM
@ElendilTheTall and what brand was it? I wonder if all clones are good or one has to find the right one.
 
@SAJ14SAJ This smoking should all happen well below the combustion temp of paper.
 
@derobert I'm looking at a $200 smoker for low and slow
 
Kitchenaids are all retail Hobarts :-)
 
I'd get a cheap grill for high heat
 
That said- a cardboard box doesn't seem like Elendil's style. :)
 
8:04 PM
@Sobachatina So should everything... paper burns at like 200 C or something. And don't believe Bradbury.
 
@rumtscho grundig
 
@ElendilTheTall ok, you should be able to find a good smoker for that
 
@Sobachatina why, what did he build his cloud box out of?
 
I still recommend starting with the kettle, unless you really want to jump in with specialized equipment.
You can make a smoking box out of a disposable tin pan or even just alumin(i)um foil.
 
@SAJ14SAJ If your smoker gets to 200C then your meat is burned.
The best smoker I used was AB's ceramic planter + hot plate.
 
8:05 PM
@Sobachatina Sure, but there is the fire hazard from the hot box.
 
@SAJ14SAJ Bradbury is clearly insane. I know for a fact paper towels don't even brown 'til at least 650 or so.
 
@saj14saj it just seems like you have to kind of hack a Weber to make it a smoker
 
@Sobachatina The one from the salmon episode?
 
You put a lot of time and effort in to get OK results.
 
@SAJ14SAJ No- that's the cardboard box. There is another episode where does some hotter smoking.
 
8:06 PM
@ElendilTheTall You don't have to hack it at all. Just close the smoke holes at the top, and add an aluminum tray or an old rusty cast iron skillet to do the smoking.
 
@SAJ14SAJ Fire hazard should be pretty minimal as long as its inside the closed grill.
 
@ElendilTheTall like that one?
 
@derobert We were tal;king about cardboard there.
 
THe Germans seem to favor a Bosch for half the price.
 
EEEK. GERMAN. Cannot read.
 
8:07 PM
@SAJ14SAJ yes, but cardboard inside a metal container designed to contain fire...
 
But it doesn't look like a Hobard/Kitchenaid.
 
@rumtscho that's the exact one
It's like a glossy black kitchen panzer tank
 
Guys, we are dangerously on topic here. We may have two on topic conversations at once. This is kind of shameful.
 
Kenji's hollandaise method worked beautifully btw.
Heat butter then drizzle into egg yolk and lemon juice with a stick blender.
 
Sure, the cardboard may well burn. It may well out-gas who-knows-what (especially if its printed cardboard). But the fire should remain contained.
 
8:08 PM
@Sobachatina What is Kenji's hollandaise method? Are power tools involved?
 
@SAJ14SAJ Well, it stands there and mixes. And costs 300 Euros. As opposed to my mixer, which requires me to hold it all the time, for a cost of 40 Euros. The motor has nominally the same power, 450 Watt.
 
Perfect hollandaise in about 15 seconds.
 
I made my first Kenji recipe the other day
 
The heat from the butter cooks the egg.
No double boiler.
 
No knead deep pan pizza
 
8:08 PM
@rumtscho I bought a kitchen aid after my fourth hand mixer burned out. I have never regretted having a quality mixer. It has lasted 20 years so far.
 
Pretty good
 
@Sobachatina Science over difficulty? But you cannot get any snob points for that :-) :-)
 
@SAJ14SAJ I also have a 20 year old kitchen aid. I've read that they have declined in quality in the last decade.
@SAJ14SAJ Perhaps not- but I get hollandaise sauce!
 
@rumtscho It has all metal parts and a five years guarantee, and it fits kitchen aid accessories
 
@Sobachatina That would be very sad.
 
8:10 PM
Buy it now, thank me later
 
But black is not a good color. :-) Get it in white. Or almond. Or stainless. Or pink. BUt not black :-)
 
@SAJ14SAJ I used to be a bit of a goth in highschool. I can tolerate high levels of black.
 
@rumtscho You never fail to make me smile.
 
@SAJ14SAJ not only is it black, it glows blue
 
@rumtscho But you are a girly girl now :-) Dead mice and computers not withstanding. I saw the cute steam holes in that apple pie!!!
 
8:11 PM
it is like a Terminator for batters and doughs
 
@ElendilTheTall That is just wrong
 
Personally I don't want my mixer to go back in time to kill my sourdough starter.
 
@Sobachatina Your sour dough starter should refrain from inventing any mixers, then.
 
@SAJ14SAJ I don't trust it. It looks malicious with it's evil bubbling there on the counter.
 
you add your ingredients, lower the mixing section with a satisfying click, grasp the beautiful brushed steel, gnurled speed knob in your hand, and turn it on. With a deep, Teutonic hum it stirs into life, a cerulean light glowing from the knob's surround, an LED as bright as a thousand suns illuminating your ingredients
 
8:14 PM
@SAJ14SAJ I didn't think the purchase of cookie cutters to be important enough to go on a Batcave shopping trip. But I do own a penguin ice tray.
 
@Sobachatina Probably wise.
@rumtscho All good toys come from internet ordering now, I am convinced. The batcave is furnished entirely by delivery!
@rumtscho And I tremble to consider what a penguin ice tray might be. And whether the penguin approves.
 
@re
@rumn
 
You seem speechless :)
 
@rumtscho Infernally cute. But I won't trade in my automatic ice maker.
@rumtscho Typing impaired :-)
 
8:16 PM
@rumtscho Even the ice is Linux themed in Germany.
 
@Sobachatina Normally not, but there are amazon marketplace sellers who sell ice trays in almost any shape.
I like making small ice cream portions in these. The pinguins are quite deep, so I get the equivalent of one small ice cream ball in each, maybe 45 ml.
 
penguins
 
@rumtscho Do you paint them with black chocolate sauce and a little red candy beak?
 
@ElendilTheTall Ah yes. I always forget which language uses i and which uses e.
@SAJ14SAJ No, I have neither the patience nor the steady hand needed.
But this talk reminds me to eat a portion of ice cream.
 
I wonder if you could put the chocolate in the mold first.
 
8:19 PM
@rumtscho You should never need a reminder for ice cream :-0
@derobert If they are quite smooth.
 
Made L.'s pea ice cream. Surprisingly tasty.
 
actually, you just need the positive mold, then you could injection-mold the chocolate
 
@derobert Chocolate can be spray molded, no need for injection.
 
@SAJ14SAJ mmmm, tasty. Now you've made me want a chocolate sprayer...
 
@rumtscho PEA ice cream? I am sorry, that sounds horrible.
 
8:21 PM
horseradish ice cream is great with steak
 
@derobert Supposedly, for detail work a standard air brush will do the job, but that is way out side my talents.
@ElendilTheTall EEW
 
don't knock it til you've tried it
 
I don't need to try natto to know I am not interested. Nor horse radish ice cream!
 
But if you injection mold them, you could produce a new batch every 20 seconds!
 
Horseradish sauce is cream based anyway
 
8:22 PM
Plus, doesn't it just melt and then you have horseraddish flavored creme anglaise.
 
no, because it's not creme anglaise to start with
 
@derobert Do you need that much chocolate?
 
The pea ice cream is sweet, like any normal ice cream
 
it's not vanilla ice cream with horseradish in it
 
@ElendilTheTall Okay, if you make Philadelphia style, it would be horse radish flavored cream.
 
8:23 PM
@SAJ14SAJ that was a silly question now, wasn't it?
 
a French style ice cream with blanched pureed peas added
 
@derobert It just seems so inefficient to injection mold the chooclate, when you could eat the callets directly.
@derobert Of course, since I have near infinite will power, I never eat the Del Rey callets before using them to bake. Not once. Ever. Really.
 
@SAJ14SAJ but then they won't be penguins. Just need to figure out how to apply the noses quickly. And maybe bowties.
 
@derobert And combine the two half molds.
@ElendilTheTall We lost track of your bbq question... did any of this help at all? Would you like to discuss regional sauce variations? :-) :-) :-) :-)
 
well, you just need a front and back mold. Then you heat the molds, inject some chocolate, and clamp the two halves together.
 
8:25 PM
@SAJ14SAJ I'm still on equipment
 
then chill
 
@derobert The seams would need cleanup. No one wants a messy molded chocolate. And there is the shrink while cooling factor.
@derobert And the tempering issue, although I suppose you could inject chocolate that is in temper.
 
I'm still to be convinced that a Weber kettle grill would give the same results as a dedicated smoker, without undue extra work
 
@ElendilTheTall this one is only $1000
@ElendilTheTall BBQ is very forgiving. There is a huge window of success, in the sense of waiting until it is done.
As long as you have heat, smoke, and meat you will be successful.
The first true bbq I hever had was done in a small portable square grill at an Air Force base in Alabama. Talk about non ideal equipment. But after smoking about 8 hours, it was still sublime.
I just would not want to spend money on something I wouldn't use a lot. ... but perhaps you are a Duke or something and just haven't told us? :-)
 
I'm not entirely sure I'd use a grill more than a smoker
Also, the smoker I'm looking at grills as well
 
8:31 PM
Hmmm, personally I only have a grill (not a smoker). So I do my smoking on it. I've been tempted to get a smoker...
 
Also I could cold smoke my own bacon in it
BACON, people
 
@ElendilTheTall You are english, you have wierd ideas about bacon :-)
 
hmmm, isn't bacon smoked pretty low? I doubt you could pull that off in a grill
 
@derobert precisely, that's why i want to get a smoker
you're barking at the wrong end of the stick
@SAJ14SAJ like, it should have more meat than fat?
 
historically, bacon would be cold smoked for long term storage; Ithink modern bacon tends not to be.
 
8:34 PM
cheaper modern bacon is injected with smoke flavoring
 
@derobert That isn't bacon, that is just drek.
@ElendilTheTall I would never bark. That is just uncivilized. Meow.
 
How long would your average pork shoulder need to smoke for?
5/6 hours?
 
@ElendilTheTall Its temperature sensitive, but as long as 12 hours would not be unheard of.
@ElendilTheTall And would you be wanting pulled pork? That typically goes a little longer since you want it shreddingly tender.
 
yes, pulled pork
pulled pork, ribs, and brisket (eventually, I understand it's the trickiest to pull off)
 
The consensus I see on the web is about 1 to 1 1/2 hours per pound, but we know how that is. Internal temp of about 190 F is the goal.
 
8:40 PM
it's actually tricky to get pork shoulder here
especially bone in
and especially big ones
 
I would say pork shoulder and sausage are the most forgiving, brisket the least.
Poultry is a whole different game.
What do brit's do with that part of the pig, then?
 
no idea
sausages I suppose
you can get boned and rolled joints for slow roasting
but loin is far more popular
 
This guy seems to have at least half a clue, if it gives you any inspiration.
Joint UK means roast US, yes?
As in a cut of meat?
 
Loin is very, very popular here, both as roasts and as pork chops. But it is not ammenable to low and slow as it is low in fat and collagen.
 
8:43 PM
indeed
belly is increasingly popular here too
I'm not a fan
it's either stringy or fatty
and half the time it has teats
 
Let the italians turn it into pancetta :-)
Or we do great bacon here in the True Land of Bacon :-)
I would never buy bacon just to use as a cut on its own, though. It seems profligately over the top too rich and fatty to me for that purpose.
 
hey, we have streaky (american style) and back (canadian) here
the best of both worlds
 
A coworker had some bacon flavored soda today.
It was dreadful.
 
you can't make a decent bacon sandwich with american style bacon
 
@Sobachatina That sounds awful!
@ElendilTheTall Now I know you are crazy. BLTs are among the most popular sandwiches here.
 
8:47 PM
@SAJ14SAJ ignorance is bliss
 
@SAJ14SAJ But on a BLT the bacon is still mostly a condiment.
 
try a bacon sarnie with actual meat in it, and you'll never look back
 
What we need is a BBB sandwhich.
 
@Sobachatina that's precisely how I like my BLTs
I hate lettuce and tomato
the tomato in my BLTs comes from ketchup
and the L stays in the fridge
 
@derobert I am down with that. BBB on whole wheat. Yum.
 
8:49 PM
ketchup on bacon?! Wow, and I thought I put ketchup on everything.
 
you don't put ketchup on bacon?
 
I have never once put ketchup on my kitties' food.
 
you have sadly lost your way since 1776
<hangs head>
 
nope, bacon is best enjoyed plain, or with brown sugar, or with maple syrup
 
@derobert With hashbrowns!
 
8:50 PM
I put ketchup on bacon- especially if my mother made it and it's as dry as cardboard.
 
@SAJ14SAJ yes, or eggs, or pancakes
 
Or shrimp stuffed with jalapeno.
 
@Sobachatina wow, do our mom's cook the same way? Has your mom mastered the 190F rubber chicken breast as well?
 
@Sobachatina Those would have to be pretty big shrimp!
 
@derobert ah yes, the 'kill it with fire!' method
 
8:51 PM
Especially helpful with turkeys, that method is.
 
@derobert Yep.
 
@ElendilTheTall oh no, she'd do that with a moderate oven...
 
@derobert ooo, nice
bake all the moisture out nice and slow
 
yep, put it in a corningware dish, bake at 325 or 350 until its at least 190... Probably 210.
(°F, of course)
 
@derobert The mind boggles!
wonders what type of mashed potatoes go with 190F chicken.
 
8:55 PM
I don't remember what went with that...
But I think you can probably substitute one of those super-bouncy balls with no change in texture.
 
@SAJ14SAJ Canned green beans.
 
My mother used to make a casserole from roasted chicken breasts, sour cream, cream of mushrroom soup, and Pepperige Farm stuffing mix on top.
I thought it was just fine to stop at the roasted chicken breasts, which were wonderful. We ate the skin as a treat. Then she had to put it in that nasty casserole. I wonder if that is why my sister went vegetarian.
@Sobachatina I took that as a given, probably with french friend onions on top!
 
@SAJ14SAJ Sounds like that's where @Sobachatina's canned green beans belong
 
@SAJ14SAJ Discovering medium rare steak was a life altering experience.
 
@derobert No, the classic Campbells GB recipe was french fried onions, no extra mushrooms. :-) Not stuffing.
@Sobachatina Oooh.
 
8:57 PM
christ, and you take the piss out of British cooking
 
@ElendilTheTall ???
 
@ElendilTheTall its made with piss? That'd explain a lot...
/me hides
 
@derobert So it would.
I don't think we should just any cuisine by its commercial recipes like the Campbell's casseroles which were promulgated on a less wary world for the sole purpose of selling condensed soup.
 
@derobert har dee har har
 
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