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9:01 PM

Anybody have an opinion on:

The idea that we cannot know the day and hour of the Lord's return seems to be a fairly common one in mainstream Christianity due to a number of verses. For example, one is Matthew 24:36 and another is Matthew 25:13. Now, in recent times, there seem to be a number of suggestions out there that ...

Monica Cellio

9:48 PM

@JonEricson I've looked at that question a few times and not been sure what to do. I don't know the Christian texts well enough to know what traditions y'all have about the day of return, and just answering the "how is RH calculated" part isn't on-topic here. Maybe if it were recast as "given these texts (quote), when is the day of return" would be a better fit?

Jon Ericson

@MonicaCellio Does RH have an eschatological component in Judaism?

@MonicaCellio Part of the problem is that the texts in the question say that the day can't be calculated.

Monica Cellio

10:08 PM

@JonEricson not in the sense of "end times". Rosh Hashana is the day of judgement; it's an annual event, part of a period of self-examination, repentance, making amends, forgiveness. The text doesn't tell us how to compute days beyond "new moon"; the business of eyewitness testimony and the court declaring is the rabbinic implementation. They also calculated the date and that's what we do now. (IIUC, even when they still did it with witnesses, they calculated as sort of a checksum.)

So if the Christian sources say that the day of return can't be known and that it will be on Rosh Hashana, then it can only be unknown if it's the year and not the day that's in question.

Jon Ericson

@MonicaCellio The "day of judgement" then is a connection. Hmmm...

@MonicaCellio The Rosh Hashana connection to the day of return is novel, as far as I can tell.

It's not in any NT text that I know of.

But trumpets and the day of judgment could be connected to RH.

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson I haven't actually followed his links. I hadn't heard the idea before, but that doesn't mean a lot.

Jon Ericson

I assume the day of Rosh Hashana can be calculated for any future year?

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson RH is characterized (in part) by the shofar -- which was also blown at other times of assembly. The day of return might be a fine time to summon an assembly regardless of the date. :-)

@JonEricson yes, there are perpetual calendars that can give you this.

Jon Ericson

10:24 PM

Ok. I think I can clean up the question. I hope my massive edit will be well-received. ;-)

Monica Cellio

kaluach.org

Jon Ericson

@MonicaCellio That's a good point.

Monica Cellio

@JonEricson if not, that's why we have revision histories. :-)

BTW, I'm speculating on shofar for that particular assembly, but the prophetic texts that talk about moshiach might actually say something. That exercise might call for a concordance (or online search).

Jon Ericson

11:25 PM

@MonicaCellio I gather that not all references to trumpets in the Tanakh are shofars.

Shofar

A shofar () is a horn, traditionally that of a ram, used for Jewish religious purposes. Shofar-blowing is incorporated in synagogue services on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Shofar come in a variety of sizes. Bible and rabbinic literature The shofar is mentioned frequently in the Hebrew Bible, the Talmud and rabbinic literature. The blast of a shofar emanating from the thick cloud on Mount Sinai made the Israelites tremble in awe (Exodus 19:16). The shofar was used to announce holidays (Ps. lxxxi. 4), and the Jubilee year (Lev. 25:9). The first day of the seventh month (Tishri) is ...

At any rate, I re-wrote the question. Not sure if I can venture an answer, however.

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