The Library

1:27 PM

So this question got me thinking. I closed it because a book written in the 20th century is certainly not a biblical text even by our loose definition. But what about Mormon texts? We claim to welcome Christian perspectives, they claim to be Christian (even C.SE recognizes them as such, it is not our place to classify folks as 'in' or 'out' of various faiths).

Frank Luke

@Daи Are the Catholic apocrypha or Deuterocanonical books within scope?

Daи

@FrankLuke yep

Frank Luke

@Daи Where is the scope list?

Daи

@FrankLuke there isn't an agreed-upon one

I've tried to make one, but it has little support

Frank Luke

This seems to be an attempted start.

@Daи Seems like a list should be a given. After all, how can we say what's off topic otherwise?

Daи

1:37 PM

@FrankLuke that has been my argument for awhile

Jack Douglas

@FrankLuke that list is what I work from

It seems to have broad acceptance at +12/-3

Daи

@JackDouglas @FrankLuke that list isn't very explicit, especially since the Orthodox Church has more than 12 depending on which tradition

Jack Douglas

the warnings in Robert's answer are why I don't want to get religious about pinning down exactly what's in and what's out

@Daи yeah, that's the sort of edge case where we should use our discretion

Daи

@JackDouglas @FrankLuke well then technically we should also allow the Book of Mormon, no?

Jack Douglas

no

Daи

1:39 PM

We do claim to welcome Christian perspectives, don't we? Should we exclude Christian texts?

Jack Douglas

if you disagree, propose it in an answer to that question, mine won't be the only downvote

Daи

I mean, C.SE has made it clear that SE has no place saying who is 'in' or 'out'

Jack Douglas

I don't care what C.SE do

Daи

@JackDouglas thinking out loud, I don't want to see Book of Mormon here either

Jack Douglas

@Daи then propose it on meta!

Daи

1:40 PM

but I think we need a better reason why

Jack Douglas

@Daи meta is the reason: we are a community, the community decides

Daи

but best reason really could be, no texts after a certain date

Jack Douglas

@Daи have a downvote

Frank Luke

@Daи Like Ethiopic Orthodox accepting 1 Enoch as canonical?

Jack Douglas

@FrankLuke I'm pretty sure we'd accept good questions on 1 Enoch

maybe the quality bar is a bit higher for edge cases, that's exactly what I mean by discretionary

Frank Luke

1:43 PM

@JackDouglas Oh yeah. It's a good book with some interesting theology. Some of those bits being good reasons why it was excluded from the Western canon.

Paul Vargas

I don't want to incorrectly interpret the Bible.

Far be it from me to do this.

Daи

@FrankLuke yes, and some patristic texts too depending on who you ask. But the Orthodox notion of 'canon' is a lot different from Western Christianity as well

@JackDouglas that makes no sense, we should have the same quality standards for all texts that are on topic

@JackDouglas why allow a crummy question about Revelation but not about 1 Enoch?

a poor question is a poor question, voting is the tool for quality, not closing it

Jack Douglas

@Daи propose that on meta, I will downvote it

but others might not

you like rules I like discretion

but the community decides

and not in chat

0

Q: What were the historical reasons why the Book of Enoch was excluded from most Christian canons?

According to Wikipedia: By the 4th century, the Book of Enoch was mostly excluded from Christian canons, and it is now regarded as scripture by only the Ethiopian Orthodox Church and the Eritrean Orthodox Church. What were the historical reasons for the exclusion?

Daи

I made no proposal, but I did ask a question - waiting for it to show up in here

@JackDouglas got my upvote :)

Jack Douglas

@Daи OK, I disagree with the question, but I will answer it

Frank Luke

1:50 PM

@JackDouglas One of my last seminary papers was on why Enoch was excluded but Revelation was accepted. Oh, what luck. I happen to have that on a flash drive I carry with me for occasions such as this.

2

Paul Vargas

@JackDouglas Well, it's very good question. :-)

Jack Douglas

@FrankLuke wow!

:)

Frank Luke

@JackDouglas You might not believe how handy that has been.

Daи

@JackDouglas sure, but we can discuss it in chat

Librarian

-1

Q: What about the Book(s) of Mormon?

We have no agreed-upon list of what books/texts constitute 'the Bible' for the purposes of this site, despite numerous attempts to create such lists. Today we had a question about Revelation where the OP was reading beliefs expressed in a religious text written in the 20th century back into the f...

discussion specific-question

Jack Douglas

2:00 PM

0

A: What about the Book(s) of Mormon?

We have no agreed-upon list of what books/texts constitute 'the Bible' This really is an inaccurate statement. The top two answers on the question you link to: warn that we should not attempt to define topicality too rigidly broadly define which books are on topic This is a good combinat...

Paul Vargas

Not angry with me, but if I read the book of Mormon, would be a waste of time. Does this book contain something good to retain?

Jack Douglas

@PaulVargas I've no idea!

you could ask the same for many other works of course

Daи

It's official: I hate MS Access

I think I'd already be done had I simply written my own app in Django

Paul Vargas

@Daи What lenguage of programming you are using?

Daи

@PaulVargas currently I'm using Access with VBA, but I should have used Django with Python

it was supposed to be a simple solution but Access is making my life miserable right now

Paul Vargas

2:17 PM

@Daи Don't allow that. Fight!

Daи

@PaulVargas haha working on it

AJ Henderson

@PaulVargas it is useful to know what the beliefs are of those you are reaching out to

Paul, when in Greece, knew about the Greek religious teachings and the alter to the unknown god

@Daи that's what Access does

makes your life miserable

friends don't let friends use Access

Paul Vargas

@AJHenderson My dear friend, that is something very different.

Daи

@AJHenderson yes, I think I should stop now and start coding haha

Paul Vargas

> For as I went around and observed closely your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: 'To an unknown god.' Therefore what you worship without knowing it, this I proclaim to you. (Acts 17:23 NET)

You see?

AJ Henderson

2:27 PM

yes, but he was studying what they worshiped

closely even

you can't expose lies when you don't know what the lies are

though I will admit, it is hard to make it through either the book of Mormon or the Koran. I've read some excerpts from the first and about the first 1/4 of the second, but have yet to manage to make it all the way through either.

partly from lack of time, partly from just getting a bit creeped out if I try to read it for too long

mostly the former, but certainly some of the latter

Paul Vargas

@AJHenderson I've thought about it. Reading the book will not be edifying. Nothing. But it will be useful when I talk to a mormon.

Thank you, friend. I had not thought that way.

AJ Henderson

@PaulVargas right, it isn't particularly edifying to you, but it allows you to be more edifying to others

3

I think there is some degree of benefit to knowing half-truths and heresies so you recognize them quickly when presented though

unfamiliar perversions of Truth can be difficult to recognize when carefully chosen

which understanding what Truth is is the best defense

but knowing what is commonly off can also have some minimal benefit

but the primary motivation is for being able to talk in an informed manner to believers of that faith

and it can also apply to things other than faith too. I have a soft spot for Islam (mostly from my desire to understand how it is they think they can reconcile the Koran as saying basically the same thing as the Bible), my Dad studied the works of prominent atheists

Frank Luke

2:49 PM

@JackDouglas Reformatted for Markdown but the text is the same as then.

And out of here. TTYL.

Jack Douglas

@FrankLuke how you managed to produce that less than an hour after the question was posted no-one will ever know ;)

Paul Vargas

3:12 PM

@JackDouglas He's like a machine. Very fast.