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1:29 AM
@NickAlexeev, when you want to close something, but know it is a judgement call, there should be a way for you to give a regular close vote rather than just hammer it.
 
1:49 AM
@ThePhoton I would agree with your reasoning. Unfortunately, that's not how SE system is set up. When diamond mods get the big hammer, they don't get to keep the small one. (This issue has been discussed in the past.)
 
2:28 AM
I want a diamond encrusted titanium dupe shovel
Who do I sleep with for one of those?
 
 
6 hours later…
8:50 AM
A hyperclone of your future self
 
9:03 AM
@PlasmaHH I think it's easier to just make one myself then
 
9:35 AM
@Vi. Don't ask me, I just know they consider it failed and that's all I was conveying.
 
Ahhhh Monday.
I'm itching to get back to
Slacking off, frankly
(I'm such a dirty liar for moderate to low to possibly negligible comedic effect)
 
an eevblog branded multimeter... where has this world come to?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:49 AM
@PlasmaHH humz?
 
@Asmyldof some brymen dave got with his logo and in blue and is exclusively distributing it in stralia
 
hm. Right
I prefer me Flukes and Keysights if he doesn't mins
mind*
 
Just wait until he designs his own one!
 
11:05 AM
@PlasmaHH yah. No. I like Dave, but not that much that I blindly trust his sensor and Altium experience to drive successful design of a competing product to Fluke, Keithley, Keysight, et al
 
I wish him luck though, Fluke has been leading for a while now. If somebody can do the same quality for less bucks I'm all for it.
 
@Mast someone then just send me all competitors meters, some meters with a few digits more, a little bit of calibration gear and I will do a comparison video for free!
 
11:37 AM
@PlasmaHH Are you trying to say you want me to do a comparison video for free?
 
ehm, almost? ^^
 
11:51 AM
@PlasmaHH I won't. Because no time, because need make money, to buy more stupid crap people will eventually want me to make videos with, which I won't do, to make more money to buy more stupid crap, ad infinitum
 
i.stack.imgur.com/8O0F6.jpg that is an intresting one...
@Asmyldof ah, the circle of, uhm, whatever
@Mast so that means you need to buy me all the stuff for the video, sorry, he wont do it
 
12:39 PM
@PlasmaHH Weird. Almost as if just behind the blades the air fall far enough in pressure to take up more water vapor from the sea, which then collapses out when pressure returns to normal.
My natural expectation would be that the dynamic isn't deep or long enough to actually take up extra water and that there would actually a trail of missing mist in a collapsing cone behind the windmills
 
The tips are rotating rather fast so I would expect some vortices to build up and rather quickly go into turbulence, so if at all the opposite round (visible vortices like with propellers in humid air, then dissolving)
 
The difference is that with propellers the vacuum is in front of the propeller, whereas the same propeller turning as propelled by the wind the vacuum is behind it. Which can cause a myriad of different fluid dynamics with turbulent flow
Can also not, and I don't feel like enveloping it, since my brain is already using all cores for processing the FW changes to be made because yet another datasheet didn't tell the whole story
TI again this time.
 
does any ever? whats this time?
 
12:54 PM
"Oh yah, you need to pulse the SYNC line low an extra time between data words, because reasons"
 
ah, thats surely easy to fix, there is probably a #define for it ;)
 
@PlasmaHH No there isn't, because my FW is properly coded
Although with stupidity like this it'll soon start becoming cringeworthy again
 
Now thats waht you get for doing things right!
 
"TransmitArbitraryLengthData" (name is different, but is somewhat sketching of what we're doing, NDA and all that) is now a function with clean and well thought out processing that hooks in nice little interrupt vectors customised to the purpose...
Oh and a "//This stupid shit is because TI also don't make proper chips anymore:" block
Ah shit!
@PlasmaHH When you linked the photo I should have said "Aaaaah! Vapour trails! The proof! The proof!"
 
1:15 PM
ah, we get the keys on 26th ...
 
@PlasmaHH If I'd have enough money not to care about what that stunt would cost me, I'd do it.
 
@Mast so what is stopping you!?
 
The money part? ^^
 
just get some? is that so hard?
 
Apparently .
And apparently you're not bulking with the stuff either, or you'd have offered to get them yourself ^^
 
1:30 PM
hey, I am currently working on my 5th million euros! the first four didn't quite work out...
Hm, anyone knows a way in ltspice to quickly setup a number of digital outputs that can be fed with numbers for their state?
 
1:57 PM
Modifying the part-file comes to mind, but that's dirty.
 
thats nowhere from "wuick"
quick even
 
2:20 PM
@PlasmaHH You need new jokes
 
@Asmyldof today is national recycling day
 
@PlasmaHH Liar, that's in June in Germany
 
Ouch ^^
 
@Mast bumped ye head?
 
I'm pretty much at the end of my fuse with Texas Intruments
 
3:13 PM
don't tell me you are going to start rolling your own ICs too
 
4:13 PM
Won't be long now
 
4:29 PM
And I'll be making them in my crystal clear epoxy, because then people can look at the silicon and see that I actually documented everything, rather than just the 60% I think people want to hear. And the sooner people copy them for cheaper, the better, because then I can stop again.
 
Hello Everybody
 
yup
 
Is there a circuit that guarantees 2x gain without relying on matching two resistors?
 
yes, a fixed gain opamp (with n% tolerance)
 
Depends on what you want to gain
 
4:40 PM
@BrandenBoucher You don't match resistors -- you buy them with the tolerance you need. You can get pretty tight resistors when you need them.
 
@ScottSeidman the process of matching resistors, even high accuracy ones, is not entirely unheard of, although with the cheapening of laser gear, possibly a dwindling practise
 
Thanks all.
Just a DC voltage gain
@ScottSeidman, it's true but with a part like Asmyldof linked in, there's a lot less headache and, I'm guessing, thermal drift.
 
Then this will probably be too expensive:
 
@Asmyldof 2% "typical" accuracy. If you need 2% and you buy these, you deserve what you get.
 
Point being, both links were 1minute of Google
 
4:47 PM
Sometimes, you just don't know what terms to search for, and asking a human saves a lot of time.
 
WTH is up at analog.com? The parametric table lists only two instrumentation amps.
 
If you need 2%, can't afford a BGA process and have no room for resistors as well because of that, you damn well will buy those. It's all about options. Again, point being, looking for fixed gain on google took 1 minute
@ThePhoton They discontinued all the useful ones overnight?
Just, not even a 2 year process, just, over night, shredded all stock
Deny their existence
 
@Asmyldof Black ops
 
@BrandenBoucher I know
@ThePhoton It's what I'd do with instrumentation amps.
For no definable reason whatsoever
 
@BrandenBoucher class D amplifier? In-amp?
 
4:50 PM
@ThePhoton, more along the lines of the op amps that were in my circuit.
In-amp?
inverting?
 
In stead of wanting to gain everything by a factor of two, you can also half your expectations and just add voltage followers to your circuit.
 
Instrumentation amp. The matched resistors are on die so you don't have to worry about them. Usually just provide one external resistor to set the gain.
 
Oh. Is that why they are called instrumentation amps?
 
I really liked my last comment, made me snort a little.
 
@BrandenBoucher More or less. Also for high input impedance, good CMRR.
 
4:52 PM
I didn't know that.
@Asmyldof, the gain of two for things is to match what's coming from the DAC and going into the ADC.
 
@BrandenBoucher Also tend to be spec'ed for low offset voltage and low dc gain drift.
 
I guess I could drop my Vref to 1.024V instead of 2.048, but that means I have to deal with 250uV instead of 500uV.
@ThePhoton, thanks
 
@BrandenBoucher You're taking it way too seriously
 
@Asmyldof could use TWO voltage followers, and sum them! Rube Goldberg contest in the making
 
It's one of those things you tell your boss at the end of a day of debugging when he asks you "Did you fix it yet so there's super low disparity between channels?"
Answer: "In stead of telling me to gain everything by two on my board, can't you just half your expectation? Then I'm done, give my 5 minutes to short all the feedback resistors"
@ScottSeidman You'd have to add them using a pre-made high accuracy adder, or a fully compensated resistive one
Before you know it you'll be using 10 op-amps to get the same stability as halving your expectations would have gotten you
 
5:00 PM
@Asmyldof, I know, I know. Some how I'm up to 8 already, as I am trying to buffer things.
it was becoming obvious that my approach was wrong.
 
You are aware you can ( amplify OR invert OR (amplify AND invert) ) AND (buffer) with one op-amp right?
And more combinations I'm too lazy to type
 
lol, yes
 
Seeing as a project manager just walked by with coat on saying "Do more work!", I feel like being lazy a bit longer
 
So I'm reviewing that too. I love my new, lap-sized, dry-erase borad
 
AKA White pants?
 
5:03 PM
Good day @all
 
Becuase that's actually wet-erase
I didn't even get a ping for @all
:'(
 
geez, should report a bug
 
@Asmyldof, wet-erase, white pants
 
@BrandenBoucher One good thing, though, the wet can be dispensed automatically from inside, so there's that
 
sounds like some nerdy version of a wet t-shirt contest.
JIM! Are you pissing your pants!!??!
Jim: I'm erasing
BTW, @Asmyldof, if it makes you feel any better, I'm supposed to be doing a PoC of some WPF windows control for dynamic columns in a grid.
Not talking Op Amps with you all.
But, you know, priorities man.
 
5:07 PM
There's not much that makes me feel better when it comes to reading it on a screen
On the other hand, there's also not much need to feel better
So, I guess that all balances out well enough
I'm hungry
@jippie FOOD!
plx?
Is there a service where you can have someone come to your house and make some moderately healthy none-take-out in your own kitchen?
If not, what'd you pay for it, so I can see if I should switch careers
 
@Asmyldof It's called a "nanny"
 
@Marla Would it be weird to hire a nanny for about an hour a day just to make food?
 
@Asmyldof Har, I really don't know. probably very expensive
travel time, etc
 
How much is very? Ball park
I'm not excluding it!
 
I don't have a clue. A nanny is normally for doing things for children (such as cooking)
 
5:17 PM
Yeah, I know. Live-in kind of deal, right?
 
not sure it is normally live in
 
Live-in would get very weird very quickly anyway, since I use all 3 other bedrooms for stuff that doesn't really leave space for a bed
 
you might have a lot of explaining when your nanny drops you off for school (work) :)
 
Nothing my colleagues would be excessively surprised by
Maybe I just need an overly social neighbour
Does the shopping, cooks, then invites me and I just pay half the shopping bills in some manner.
 
100 years ago, that was called a wife
 
5:21 PM
Now I just need a master plan how to go about arranging for one
 
except that she didn't get paid
 
Yeh, but women generally don't like me enough to stay for more than a few hours, and I haven't tried men, as they do absolutely nothing for me, and with the neighbour-deal gender is a none-issue
@Marla Which means they are due for some back pay, after all, the men kept saying "honey, your job is to take care of the kids"
 
Hi, I don't want to interrupt but I have a question in queue, after you are done
 
@JamesC jump in James :)
 
oh thank you @Marla
 
5:29 PM
very informal here in chat James
 
uh, arite good to know sup y'all
 
@JamesC Asmyldof is tired of fixing his own meals
 
I have bit of a problem with a question I asked on the site
 
@Marla Only when @ThePhoton isn't here. He's secretly a retired school teacher of the old fashioned kind, you need to raise your hand and wait for your turn, wet your pants if you must.
 
ok, tell us about it
 
5:30 PM
obviously best idea seemed to be to make an edit, and go to moderator chat page
I asked but it doesn't seem to be a very active place
this was my question on the site
 
reading the question, hold on
 
Still is.
 
ugly link... I don't know how to make this nice Q/A input in chat
 
@JamesC I think you'll still have problems because it's still a shopping question.
 
@JamesC The moderators weren't disrespecting you by putting your question on hold.
 
5:33 PM
We'd rather you ask "how do I design this?" or "What features/specs should I look for when shopping for that?" instead of "Where can I buy the other thing?".
 
@JamesC Use this electronics.stackexchange.com/help page to help you to improve your question. Edit your question, and (hopefully) moderators would release the question from being on hold.
 
The main reason for that rule is that it is absolutely uninteresting for anyone using any other thermistor to read your shopping question in vain, wasting their time and then driving them to ask more shopping questions and eventually flooding the archives with pointless information.
Whereas a "How do I find out what's a good replacement" might actually help the entire lot of you
 
I see, but I have seen other questions like that
asking for alternatives to a component
and they are not closed. there is even tag alternatives
but I see your point @Asmyldof about asking it other way
 
morning
 
@jippie Food?
 
5:44 PM
hi
 
greetings and felicitations jippie
 
Gong Xi Fa Cai, everybody, by the way.
 
@JamesC If you see other questions you feel violate the shopping rule you can flag them for attention
@ThePhoton You too etcs
 
@Asmyldof I don't think I will do that, they seem alright to me and I followed their example when asking mine.
 
@Marla ?
@JamesC You would be helping in keeping it clean and preventing others the same confusion you had. Regarless I'm curious about one example
The best one, if at all possible
 
5:52 PM
You mean an example of another question that seems much like mine?
 
Since AFAIK @NickAlexeev also regularly rummages through "the old trash" to see what's what
Yup. See if maybe there's an elementary difference
 
Alright, but just a minute, I am editing my question atm
btw
when you suggested asking "How do I find out what's a good replacement"
should i ask about that specific thermistor (that i want to find alternative to)
or thermistor in general
 
Hm, what are some approximate feasibility limits of r2r DACs?
 
Link a datasheet to you original and ask "how do I know what's important to replace this one" or whatever your most mission aimed wording may be
 
ok, thanks
 
6:00 PM
@PlasmaHH Since that's not an overly general question with no limiting parameters to what the hell you're talking about, I'd say: No higher than 10cm
I'm going home-ish
 
@Asmyldof no thanks, I just ate. Had a fresh made salad with a nice juicy piece of beef, cooked by nude virgins in tomato sauce.
@Marla felicitations?
 
is a form of greetings
Darn, I just spent the last 5 minutes composing an answer, and question was withdrawn. Pouts
 
@PlasmaHH how accurate is the resistor you want to use?
 
sorry to hear about that @Marla , I was never in this situation myself but always wondered how folks must feel
 
@JamesC it was probably that I gave away the answer in the comment section. Went off to make the answer, then OP realized the schematic I pointed to had the answer. Is ok. As long as the customer is happy :)
 
6:11 PM
ah, blast
 
I do see the OP's (questioner) here on EE SE as customers. EE SE has a service to sell. The price is right for the customer. The price is only having to do a bit of research and attempt solution before asking question here.
 
And what is the reward for seller (person who answered) in this relationship?
 
@JamesC Multiple rewards : Satisfaction of helping someone. Gaining more knowledge myself in making sure my answer is correct and excellent.
and discovering new areas I had not encountered before
 
alright I get it
 
and EE SE has advertisements, so they get economic reward in being the broker
 
6:15 PM
I have no doubt about profitability for the site owners
 
@JamesC Being on here and answering questions can result in brutal treatment if you are way off wrong.
Comments can cut like a sword
< - - - getting thick skin, but still I triple check my answers before posting
 
you mean if you give a wrong answer?
 
yep
 
on sites like that everyone would say "don't worry, it's not personal"
 
@JamesC and also embarassing if it misleads the OP
and it is not personal, I know that. It is ME with hand hitting forehead that hurts the most
 
6:19 PM
oh i see
i do sometimes see harsh comments, and makes me wonder why not invest this energy into writing a better answer instead
you know this one thing, a job of a critic is to say what he would do instead, if he knew how to :D
 
@jippie .1%
 
Each person has their own way when correcting another
 
btw, I have edited my question*
would appreciate some feedback if possible
 
@jippie @PlasmaHH I notice that @JamesC has edited the question electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/215513/… in attempt to get removed from HOLD
@JamesC Darn, didn't see your comment, was typing mine
 
That's alright!
 
6:26 PM
@PlasmaHH If you have 10 bits, that is 0..1024, so the LSB has already more impact than the tolerance of the resistors.
 
Please finish your comment too =)
 
@JamesC If you use the ampersand (@) before a persons name, that question dings a bell on their computer for their attention.
 
does it? audibly? I didn't have headphones on to hear
 
yes, it makes a doink sound on mine
 
ok I will pay attention
There's another thing I'm wondering about. I see questions on EE SE about Arduino or RPi. Do they usually get migrated to Arduino and RPi sites respectively?
And why would someone consider posting here, instead of one of those 2 SE.
 
6:30 PM
you can also link your comment to another's comment (doesn't work on mobile app), at the far right of a person's comment, position mouse over their comment, and you will see a right arrow. This automatically inserts the ampersand and their name into your field of typing
 
@Marla it actually activates a relay, then turns on my amplifier, then sounds a PIngg.., then turns off the amplifier.
 
@JamesC There is a new question on meta.electronics.stackexchange.com regarding your exact question.
 
@Marla Ah is there, thanks!
Collective conscience at work
 
I just got 5 points on an old question of mine. Don't believe I have ever gotten 5 points. 10= upvote, 25= answer , what is 5 points for ?
and I saw no new activity on my question
 
5 points is question upvote
 
6:34 PM
I thought 10 was upvote
sillly me
 
it is, for answers
 
ah, got it.
 
My question got resurrected, so I would like to thank all for helping me with it =)
 
@Marla +5 is an upvote for a question. +10 is an upvote for an answer +15 is an accepted answer.
 
@jippie Thanks, I don't often look into the details of rep points. I just most often notice the numbers +10 and +25
 
6:44 PM
not unusual to get upvote + accepted = 25
 
6:58 PM
I see there is quite a storm regarding RPi and Arduino questions
I sensed disturbance in the Force for a reason
 
7:09 PM
@jippie Nude virgins in tomato sauce? That's usually for afterwards, isn't it?
 
I am amazed by an extra compiler flag for a dft prog. Specifying -march=core2 -mfpmath=sse+387 almost quadruples performance :-s
 
7:29 PM
@jippie mhm, anything about frequencies?
 
/me shrugs.
I usually see half winding inductors when I look at PTH resistors on a PCB or breadboard.
 
8:02 PM
I see inductors everywhere, just a matter of values
 
8:36 PM
If I test an embedded system at an EMI place and it passes, then I go to release and there's a software bug, and I fix that bug, then have I invalidated my EMI test results?
 
@EwokNightmares For which regulating authority ? Or is it a customer specification ?
 
@Marla Customer specification
I have seen where changing a spread spectrum bit in software changed a device from fail to pass in EMI
so the opposite can happen too
 
@EwokNightmares That is a tough call. If you ask the customer, they are going to want a re-test for assurance.
 
What if the customer has asked me to do the final assurance?
as in I have final stamp of approval
The requirement comes from a standard reference
 
you have reputation, liability, delivery time, , ,, , and other matters to consider also.
multiple devices for re-sale ? or a one time unit ?
I am not going to have an answer, but I am trying to walk you thru things to consider
 
8:46 PM
@PlasmaHH maybe you should see a doctor
 
@jippie he already see's inductors, now doctors ?
 
@Marla Thank you for bringing up those points to consider. I see the point you're making is it is a subjective answer.
 
What is cost of a re-test versus the sale price (profit) of the project ?
 
what I also see is that google is a bitch for dropping vista support for chrome
 
It is not a for profit endeavor
it is to support the organization internally
there is not even a budget xD
 
8:49 PM
@EwokNightmares Ok, so a minor failure of the specification won't be a long distance fix.
 
so the customer has zero budget and wants to delegate any liability on you?
 
@EwokNightmares Let the end user (internal whatever) know of the test results, and software change, and kick it upon them to decide. Out of their budget then.
 
@jippie It is undefined. More like "we will give you what you need"
and all liability has been delegated to me
and I'm not even paid to be a project manager :(
 
are you an employee?
 
@EwokNightmares If you are employee, then liability is upon the company (other than to your reputation)
 
8:51 PM
@jippie Kind of. My boss decided to have a meeting this year finally.
 
that would change the liabiltiy thing (at least in Europe)
your employer would be liable for any mess ups, provided they are unintentional
 
@jippie Do your best. Give full disclosure. And higher up administrators will have to decide. Push a little.
 
I guess I just have to tell my boss these things and he won't care anyway and then I'll just decide to pass it anyway cause I won't change anything critical.
 
anyways time for bed
night
 
night jippie
 
8:54 PM
@Marla thanks
 
very welcome
 
Hint to future self: when you throw away a catnip bag, make sure you take out the trash immedeately...
6
 
@PlasmaHH In this case, a picture (the one that developed in my mind) is worth a thousand words.
 
@Marla you could print it for me...
 
I'm not programmed for wireless communications to printers
 
9:06 PM
bah, these obsolete old techs... ;)
 
9:49 PM
hm, resealable chocolate... what is that for?
 
10:22 PM
what effect is causing this to stop oscillating when I check the voltage of the base with my multimeter?
 
Are you sure it's on voltage?
 
yeah, it is... I think it is capacitively loading the circuit, thus appearing as a much much lower impedance, but I am not sure here
 
Does your multimeter have a rating for its voltage setting impedance?
 
yeah, its about 11meg or so
 
Just thinking that, beyond capacitance, if it's only 1MOhm...
 
10:27 PM
look at r2, it should be pretty fine with a meg or even a bit lower
 
Can you try jumping the base to ground with a 10meg resistor and see if it stops? Kinda a shot in the dark there but, ya, it's an order of magnitude larger so I wouldn't think it would be the issue.
 
oscillation stops at ~4k from base to gnd
anything higher is fine, though lower amplitude at lower ranges
 
wow, all the way down to 4k?
 
yep
maybe even lower, but not as low as 3k and I didnt want to test now ^^
touching the base with some tweezers lowers the amplitude by 80% so it likely is some capacitive thing
 
Do you have a good lcr meter?
 
10:34 PM
good is relative, isnt it? ;)
 
Just thinking you might be able to cheat it with an op amp as a voltage follower, if you have one that will work at 5MHz.
 
I have it dimensioned to 35mhz... hm, you give me an idea, let me hook up the multimeter to the lcr meter
nah, gets detected as 10.2Meg ohm and it refuses to measure it as capacitance
 
aah
bah
Why are you trying to measure the base V during opperation?
 
ok, just using the teast lead without the meter attached stops oscillation
 
Won't it always be a bad reading at that frequency?
 
10:38 PM
because I have a pot wired there so I can vary the voltage there for tryinig out behaviour wiht different transistors
no, the oscillation is around 400mVpp and the bias voltage there is at like 3.5V or so, it just averages out fine
 
I guess my next question is, why do you need the "live" measurement: while it's oscillating I mean
 
to not have to attach and detach things, just quickly swapping trannies and turning the pot
 
And, not being snide. I'm genuinely curious (I might learn something)
 
dont try to learn from me, lots of bad things there ;)
 
Oh, right. Bias voltage should be like 7.75. I had it backwards...
 
10:41 PM
like those frequenceies... not really something for a breadboard
 
I run this at 4.5V input so bias is a bit down
 
aah. ya. like 3.875
 
ah, nick, looks like some people are again unhappy with your lack of handholding and spoonfeeding ^^
@BrandenBoucher you see, on a breadboard this is as if you sprinkle 20p caps all around between all nodes there
 
10:46 PM
so in certain arrangements, when you remove C2 or C3 entirely, all it does is lowering aplitude
 
but not both right?
 
I could surely arrange it in a way that it works with both removed, yeah
not for 5Mhz probably, but surely for 35
another funny aspect is that the oscillation amplitude depends on how I bend the leads of RE, not sure about the exact mechanism here, but well, at those frequencies...
 
all about induction at that point. A bunch of little antennas and inductive loads. That's my guess anyways.
 
yeah, that too, but the strips in the breadboard are caps to each other, about 20p on most boards
even more so the power rails
thus, for certain applications you have less high frequency noise on a breadboard, as this acts like a high frequency cap with low esr
but its mostly random on breadboard
s
aaanyways, its oscillating stable enough, I will put it on some proto pcb and now just have to build a good directional antenna for that signal
 
11:02 PM
sry I couldn't be more help
 
it already helped to be able to rubberduck this
 

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