@NickAlexeev I do this with GCC and very tightly controlled ld scripts

define sections by hand, keep track of code blocks, relocate what you can, etc.

@crasic I'm not sure where IoT ends and the maker-movement starts to name one example. Everything is called IoT :-p and everybody apparently can make an IoT device. The majority of IoT devices are an IT security nightmare, because people take their smart [desk light] with them to the office and all of a sudden the smart IoT drama is plugged into your datacenter core ..

@jippie It's how I now have a DB of passwords, obviously

?

@Asmyldof Did you upload your database in the cloud for easy retrieval by hackers?

Some of the questions on the stack are really good for my self confidence, I feel super smart :o)

@jippie but they make clear that your planet is doomed

@jippie I meant other people's

@jippie Examples?

Morning guys

@PlasmaHH I guess you have a point there :-/

mornin all

@W5VO Morning

@Funkyguy ; @W5VO ... Morning? My clock does not agree...

:-P

@Asmyldof haha, what is it over there?

Sunny

@Funkyguy 82 minutes past beer o'clock?

@jippie beeroclock.in

@Funkyguy :-p

It is always beer o'clock somewhere in the world ;-)

I broke it by rolling back the clock through 0:00

But then opening it anew in a new tab fixed it

<- K&Q of destructive testing

@Asmyldof Should open up an issue on github with the guy :P

@Funkyguy NAh

Too lazy

Also, I am currently getting paid for doing other stuff == better

There's a lot of shady characters in this room

I was kidding

Maybe I was too. There's every possibility I'm one of those super rich homeless people with a huge data plan.

Well, not every, but certainly some

"Because reasons" sounds funny in a 'eh, right' kind of way in Dutch. Kind of works

Have to admit though, this part time boss of mine, not too bad. "You guys keep staying past 6, so I had the admin staff order noddles and frozen microwave sandwiches, so you don't starve"

@Asmyldof It's meant to sound funny.

I know

I have been using it for years

But, in Dutch it sounds differently funny

Hard to explain

@Asmyldof Don't worry, I think pretty much everything ever said in Dutch sounds funny.

Especially "groetjes"

I certainly hope you didn't burst out laughing at "Mijn hond is gisteren overreden en ik kan er niet zo goed mee omgaan"

@Asmyldof Not if a customer said it.

It's not really a good thing to laugh at for any relationship

I never regret buying coloured fineliners!

In my Dutch learning tapes, there is a dialog where the man comes home from work and his wife has only made sandwiches for dinner and he says "Aleen maar broot?!?" in this pathetic voice that makes me laugh every time.

brood*

and

alleen*

:-P

maar was right though

Kudos!

So you can tell the tapes didn't help my spelling much?

It would be some amazing tape system if it did

I need to figure out what I'm having for dinner and make it so. Can't be having frozen microwave sandwiches all week....

On the one hand knowing German makes it fairly easy to get a reading knowledge of Dutch. On the other hand it makes it harder to really get it right.

I can imagine

But the great thing about Dutch is... Who really needs it?

@Asmyldof Was about to say that.

But when I was doing a job for Dutch customers it was useful to be able to read their messages rather than wait for our Dutch salesguy to translate them.

(Not that they wouldn't just write English if they wanted us to know what they were talking about, but on other occassions...)

@ThePhoton That was my point. In Amsterdam English is actually recognised as an official language.

Sometimes I wanted to know what they were emailing about, even when they didn't want me to.

"Die eikel uit amerika stelt weer debiele vragen. Kunnen we hem niet eens dumpen?"

For example?

@Asmyldof exactly

:-)

Just looked it up. Estimated statistics say that 82% of Dutch people under the age of 65 can (could: 2013) converse well enough in English to carry a meaningful conversation. In average level of skill in non-English-speaking-Countries we came 3rd in a 2012 concluded survey, just below the Danes and Swedes. We were remarkably the only top 10 country to have equal skill on average in men and women, where in others women would be slightly to significantly better at English.

When you confine the scope to 25 to 35 year old people of the type "young professionals" (people on a track to leadership or speciality subjects, be it in law, technology, or just business management, etc) the English mastery in NL goes to >97% well enough to use it in their day to day life

Appologies: In my first "under 65" that should define post-high-school / 16+ as well. We obviously aren't counting toddlers and the like

But this is all woohwaah based on several thousands and some collated "Centraal Bureau voor de Statistiek" (CBS.nl) data

@Asmyldof Haven't been to NL, but my experience in Germany was that all the "outward facing" engineers spoke excellent English, while the guys who were more heads-down designers, or worked more in the factory, or whatever were working a lot harder to keep up a conversation (still probably better than my German, though).

But still, nice to read about "yourself" in such a topic

Of course NL is a lot smaller than Germany so you probably are more motivated to learn international languages.

Well, the thing with NL is, we are surrounded by 3 major languages for the better part of the post-longhaired-freak time

@Asmyldof By "longhaired freak time" you mean the 17th century?

Add to that our skill in negotiating the waves and the peoples we met in the 16th, 17th and 18th century

More the 1st

And that makes for a very, very long tradition of having a need to speak languages we don't "recognise"

I think the greatest factor is that NL, and a lot of other "small" countries have their movies in English with local subtitles

@PlasmaHH Most Americans who watch foreign movies prefer subtitles to dubs, and it doesn't help us learn other languages.

@ThePhoton When I was learning English, the English movies with English subtitles were somewhat helpful.

The movies were TV broadcast only. No rewinding.

Question Gents, how does one interpret this into a component footprint design

Does this mean .3mm diam pad with .1mm soldermask keepout?

0.05mm pullback

it's on both sides

going home now. back in a bit

@NickAlexeev Chinese is great that way --- just about all Chinese movies have Chinese subtitles, because so many Chinese people speak dialects but still read Chinese.

@ThePhoton that is because they are in a lot of different languages, and there is no starting incentive like school to learn the basics of that language. And it is only a small fraction of overall TV consumption. I just switched through the NL TV that is available here and the majority of it is English with subtitles. So likely once per day you are exposed to it vs. How often for e.g. Spanish in your case? Once per month?

@PlasmaHH [I can respond on behalf of The Photon, because we are in the same locale.]

Spanish, eh? You'd be surprised.

California is a former province of Mexico, which was annexed by the US. Currently, 25% of the population is of Hispanic descent. Spanish TV channels, radio, newspapers are on tap.

There is no shortage of Spanish language practice here. For example, most of the guys who are repairing my roof right now speak more Spanish than English.

@PlasmaHH Several things led to us not dubbing much, if anything, for adult consumption:

1. Our already regular use of German, French and English before TV

2. The limited number of voice actors cheap enough to make it interesting, whereas linguisticists willing to make subtitles are abundant

3. Limit Licensing issues and legal ramifications under our laws regarding original voice content

Limited*

And from those three it just keep resonating to someone trying to broadcast something after 20:00 dubbed and being snubbed for it because that's just not done

Like the great Cow&Chicken/I.M.Weasel/TwoStupidDogs debacle of the late 90's

They actually dubbed all of it, but later used it only during the day time, because regular viewers in the evening/weekends complained no end about it being horribly stupid

I like English though, how some titles are so much better, while still making sense, if you switch two words.

Ugh, damnit... brain not responding to requests for the one example I came across yesterday

Hello all, hope I can ask a long question and you don't mind the interruption. In software development there are jobs in larger organizations where you build solutions for use within the org. Does the same thing exist for electronics, are their people for example building small devices with Rasp. Pi or whatever, or making IoT devices as solutions to manufacturing problems (for eg)? What job title would it be? Or, is all hardware off the shelf or out-sourced.

@JimW Usually, the job of internal automation of manufacturing falls to Manufacturing Engineers (that's a job title). Their tool of choice is a PLC (programmable logic controller), usually.

p.s. I hope, I understood your question correctly.

As another ancedote, I know someone developing something like that based out of IT

Thanks, yes looking at the wikipedia for PLC seems to match the kind of thing I'm asking about.

( source )

@JimW I actually just finished the last parts of HW development and testing in-house for a photonics company, now finalising FW for first full Beta

@W5VO We usually throw a database at every problem.

Uploading fails....

dropbox.com/s/9x2fqj292u3ykps/DSC04875.JPG?dl=0

dropbox.com/s/1lglg46wftcnjd7/DSC04913.JPG?dl=0

dropbox.com/s/zmw2zk7746l5fbz/DSC04926.JPG?dl=0

dropbox.com/s/y7qygj2kogectyx/DSC04940.JPG?dl=0

Started with experimenter boards and a silly idea

@JimW That's more or less what I do. I make test equipment solely to be used to test the actual product of my company.

@PlasmaHH For me it's probably even more often than for Nick. My nearest grocery store is "Mi Pueblo". Probably half my closest neighbors speak more Spanish than English.

@NickAlexeev but for the subset of those that do not speak Spanish already, how much incentive is there to learn it, or even just watch it with English subs? All the big movies and everything is readily available in English. Not so much in NL. Most stuff is with subtitles. Even a lot of commercials are. Most imported from Hollywood is

@Asmyldof whatever lead to it, it is a big contributor to learning English. When you can apply it, you can learn it much better than when you use it once a year

@PlasmaHH At some point it turned into a circle I think, we had it, it made us want it, made us better at it, made us keep it, etc etc

@NickAlexeev That's how we do shit!

Seriously though, in order, other than walking in Amsterdam, the best/fastest way to get around probably is: Bicycle, Boat, Tram/etc, Motorcycle, Learn to fly, Invent teleportation, Car, Delivery Bus, Truck

....

How does a thyristor hold "Current Confusion"?

@PlasmaHH You want to save some money on getting your roof fixed or your driveway repaved? It helps to have at least basic Spanish. Every time you go into a grocery store, all the shelves are labelled in both English and Spanish --- helps you learn a lot of everyday words.

At the hardware store, everything is bilingual --- nails = clavos; gloves = guantes; windows = ventanas; ...

Great for learning nouns. Not so much help for verbs.

@ThePhoton @PlasmaHH Spanish in California helps with low level things. It may also help if one is outsourcing manufacturing to Mexico. English in Netherlands helps with high level things. Different patterns.

[Please forgive my cynical Russian views.]

Mr.I. seems to have missed the "Arduino", "Sketch" and all the other hints at "What's a datasheet" in this one: electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/188488/…

@NickAlexeev In my mind you'd have to be an exceptionally oblivious person to live in California and not learn the Spanish for basic things like onions, tomatoes, bread, just from seeing the translations next to each other every time you go to the store.

@ThePhoton Yo, Gustavo, tienes Dollaros, reparar mi techo!

Yes?

@Asmyldof liek ik nederlands sprekke

:-D

Errr

Eep for this question and "Just started working" + "Power electronics" + "Started learning about electronics circuits" electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/188487/…

Can someone google his boss?

Pfhehgh

Anyone care to fix this EmbedSky crapstick boot issue thing for me?

Hate it when customers go for a charlatan using B (if not D) brand boards to save $10k on a $500k project

Also: Code full of strdup() and no free...

E-mailed their IT (PHP/Javascript/Network type) guy "Do you guys, per chance, have memory issues as well?" --> "Yeah, we asked them, they said it was a mistake in the representation of the numbers; they said it wasn't 2000% in this image" --> "No, but 1GByte of virtual memory for a program that reads a 120 line file to check and update machine status is a bit off, isn't it?"

/le sigh

@PlasmaHH Germans.... youtu.be/ImPaDXdyZ3A?t=19m14s

My favouritest conf file ever: "ProcArch.conf" --> cat ProcArch.conf --> "Done"

More Lols:

char * fileName = (char*)malloc(sizeof(char)*128);

char * Databasestring = (char*)alloca(sizeof(char)*4096);

end of code: No frees

Always a cool idea to make 4 4096 length strings in alloca and then make the tiny one a malloc.

(and no freE)

@Asmyldof Freedom tastes of realiteeee....

And also custom __REV() functions that take unchecked anonymous void pointers....

noice!

Deffo no worries there

That this ended up working at all is a miracle! I'm not even telling you guys about the hardware!

Oh Python, you and your crazy iterators...

:-D

what you pythonning?

nother gem:

void ErrorHangState(void){ while(1){ usleep(1000); } }

first: what!?

second: Why usleep if you're going to kill the application in a proc-eat-loop?

if you're going to be dead but standing, use seconds...