mods see curators room

@AJHenderson woah new rooms

@Ryan that's an old room

new to me lol

it's been around for probably a year or two now

looks like it never gets much activity so guess thats why I've never heard of it

guess we must have forgotten to mention it to you... yeah, it's pretty dead, but makes a good spot to exchange cross site relevant discussion that doesn't need to make noise in the free for all room

it was used a lot more when we were figuring out where site boundaries were on overlap

Ah thats good to know when new things do pop up. I know us GraphicDesign people have quickly shut down a few Area51 proposals

Would a question, "Why do Photographers seem to think Photoshop is harder than Lightroom?" be too opinion based do you think?

Was reading that question that you marked with spam after seeing it get bumped

@Ryan I don't personally think so, but I'm not sure what photography's feelings are these days

I think good strong supported arguments can be made for why photoshop is actually harder than lightroom

and also for some of the ways it is easier

there's a bit of opinion, but a lot of fact to how they are designed for different things

now that isn't to say it may not draw a lot of bad answers

I just take issue with seeing over and over on the Photo site that Photoshop is harder and Lightroom is everything you need.

Trying to understand why as I'm also in the process of writing a book on the subject

@Ryan well I suppose for that, it largely depends on what level the user is working at

for the average consumer, lightroom does have pretty much everything they "need". Photoshop offers much more advanced power, but is also far more complicated

because of the number of tools and options and how they interact

Its not really more complicated at all

where as Lightroom is stripped down to esentials that are designed to be quick and easy

Not anymore

has it gotten substantially simpler since CS6?

just the toolbox in Photoshop would be overwhelming to someone not familiar with it

I think you've just forgotten how much you've actually learned about Photoshop

Photoshop isn't hard to use, but that's very different from not being complicated

I don't understand why its complicated. Thats the point. I don't know what people are missing but I've got a few ideas

it's just the number of tools and knowing how to pick the right one

like if you're trying to work with Photos just change the workspace from Essentials to Photography which has been in since CS4. Open the Adjustments Panel as well.

there are knobs and dials and sliders everywhere. You need to know what at least most of the features are to find the right one for your task. Then many of the tools require more technical and artistic skill to use well

the workspaces do help, and I think that's something they learned from Lightroom

And now even with JPGs there's Raw as a Filter so whether you're using an actual Raw or a JPG/TIF you have all of the simple raw editing tools found in Lightroom in Photoshop

I suppose it could be accurate to say that doing the subset of things you can do in lightroom is not substantially more complicated than doing it in photoshop

but the thing is that Photoshop has a much more extensive bag of tricks

exactly!

but that adds complexity for anyone that doesn't understand their tools fully

which type of blur should I use for situation x? If I have 7 choices, deciding is hard and confusing unless I know what they all do. If I have 1, I just try to get what I want with it

maybe I can't, but I'm not stuck guessing and confused

Lightroom providing a limited set also focuses people in on the most important ones

while not confusing users with less used or more specialized tools

But that's just it Adobe Camera Raw within Photoshop already serves that purpose

So you could do everything in Adobe Camera Raw ignoring everything else in Photoshop if options are scary

you're only missing... cataloging which is the original point of lightroom that photographers seem to think backwards about. Lightroom is a cataloging tool with some editing. Not an editing tool with cataloging.

yes, but that's not how most people take it, lots of people get nervous when they have lots of buttons they don't understand

@Ryan I'd agree with you there

though Adobe has officially marketed it as their "consumer friendly" tool even to the extent it feels like they push elements less

so I think that is partly Adobe's fault

well they're not stupid - they saw a ton of photographers buying up DSLRs and wanting filters

its funny when you think about Photoshop Filters from the early 90s. That's Lightroom users and Instagram/Snapchat/VSCO/etc users today.

yeah, pretty much