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12:53 AM
(That one shooting right into the sun.)
(longer ago!)
(err, that one is actually the FA 77 limited, and my friend took it.)
I have more that aren't pictures of my kids. But that's my priority. :)
And an obligatory spring flower shot:
 
1:33 AM
@rfusca - My current lens collection includes Pentax SMC-M 50mm f/1.7, Pentax DA 17-135mm WR, Vivitar 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Vivitar Series III 70-200mm f/2.8mm, Tamron 17-50mm f/2.8, Sigma 70-300mm f/4-5.6 macro, Sigma 70-200 f/2.8, and the Sigma 120-400mm f/4.5-5.6.
 
@JohnCavan wow
hows the sharpness on the 50mm f/1.7?
 
@rfusca @jrista - In regards to the Pentax GPS module, the astro tracking feature appears to max out at a 5 minute exposure, there is only so much sensor adjustment you can do. I suspect that you do NOT want to use it in conjunction with another tracking device.
 
@JohnCavan thats a shame
 
All the old Pentax 50mm lenses are real gems.
Bear in mind that normal anti-shake still applies if you're considering this in regards to a barn door setup.
 
why two 70-200s? one manual?
@JohnCavan ya, but if i could build a less precise barndoor, it'd be easier if I could then just have the astrotrac feature make up for some of the drift
 
1:37 AM
The Vivitar is manual, the lens is legendary if you get the 3rd edition. I got it as a part of a kit purchase for next to nothing and I went for that because of the lens reputation.
 
ic
there does seem to be some wicked deals on ebay for pentax glass
 
The Vivitar 100mm was only about $200 and it's considered one of the best, and sharpest, macro lenses ever built.
 
ic
 
Yeah, the big up for Pentax lenses is that there are a lot of old kits out there that people are trying to unload. You may end up with a few film bodies in your lens quest, but they're worth it for certain lenses.
 
@mattdm on the pic right before you said "gtg crying kid...", of her in the pink shirt and skirt - what was the aperture?
@JohnCavan sure
 
1:41 AM
I should warn you, if you go Pentax you will start to experience LBA, it is inevitable.
 
lens buying addiction?
 
Yup
Pentax has some sweet glass and not all of it is new.
 
ya, i can understand that
 
The only thing distracting me from it, right now, is my new Jeep. That's way too customizable...
 
hahaha
 
1:44 AM
I've already installed a new bumper, a winch, bought netting, a security trunk... The potential for craziness on this has just jumped! Two incomes, no kids can be a dangerous condition.
 
@JohnCavan lol no kidding
 
Fun though... I now have a vehicle that can take me, and my camera, into the deep woods of northern Ontario.
 
@rfusca f/5.6. All the EXIF data is intact in those, btw, if you click 'em.
 
oh, i didn't notice
@mattdm thanks for the examples
 
@rfusca - Given your K-5 question the other day, are you considering a move to it?
 
1:47 AM
@rfusca you're welcome. I won't claim any of 'em as fine art but they make me happy.
 
@mattdm - My personal definition of fine art is art that makes me feel fine. ;)
 
@JohnCavan i'll be switching to either a K-r and a full set replacement, or if i get enough a K-5 and a single prime
 
The flower one demonstrates the bokeh pretty well. It's nice enough, but if you look in the left corner you can see it's pretty busy.
 
@mattdm but they're largely the kind of pics I take as well, so its helpful. Fine art photos don't help me envision the pics I would take
 
The one with the ship demonstrates high ISO on the K-7. ISO 4000. It's pretty noisy but I think it actually looks pretty nice — makes a very good print.
I wish I could take the same shot with one of the newer cameras to see if the cleaner images actually make a difference in a way that matters.
Presumably more DR would make the hair nicer; that's a bit flat.
 
1:52 AM
@rfusca - The K-5 is a great camera, I seriously enjoy using it. I can't speak to the K-r at all, I'm afraid. If you do go K-5 with a prime, you'd want to look at something like the 31mm or the 35mm I would think. They fit close to the classic "normal" view from the film era.
 
@JohnCavan ya, i'm thinking either the 40mm limited, or matt got me looking at the 35mm macro
i love my 50 now, its great for portraits, but i've started to find it just a tad too long
 
@JohnCavan All of the above (except the one 77mm) are from the 40mm. It's pretty versatile as an "almost normal". I think of it as "normal, but automatically crops a little more for an magically stronger composition."
 
for GP use
 
@mattdm - I can only compare K-5 to K20 where it comes to noise... It's night and day. I would hestitate at above ISO 800 on the K20, but for the K-5 I'll go way beyond that to 12,800 or even 25,600, for a shot.
 
I would like to try the 31mm, but a bunch of money would have to fall in my lap first. :)
@JohnCavan As I understand it, the K-7 is the same as the K20 and maybe even a bit worse (with faster frame rate as the trade-off).
 
1:56 AM
@mattdm - Me too, the 31mm looks nice. I have the 77mm on my wish list.
 
I go up to 4000 with my K-7 (as evidenced by that ship picture), but that's pretty much the limit. 12k would make a meaningful difference.
 
Samsung made noisy sensors, no question. Have you seen my ISO 20000 shot? It'One of the shots that convinced The Online Photographer owner to buy a K-5.
 
@JohnCavan Yes, I have. :)
 
LOL, that shot convinced me to forget about ISO on the K-5 and just shoot to the aperture and shutter speed I desire.
 
That's basically what I do, except only up to 4000. :)
Pentax has a very nice auto-ISO implementation.
 
2:00 AM
Having said that, back in the film days, ISO 800 was considered very fast and was grainy as all get out, so... We have it nice now.
 
on the D3200, I was comfortabled up to 1600, and 3200 was there, but you could tell...past that was utter junk
 
Oh yeah, TAv mode is slick. I like my manual mode to be fully manual, that's not entirely the case on Nikon or Canon, so I think Pentax does it better.
 
what do you not that way on Nikon?
 
You can basically get the same effect on Nikon, it's just more menu options, right?
 
manual was manual on my D3100 unless I also turned autoiso on
ya
its just a autoiso setting...
 
2:01 AM
The default behaviour for Nikon (or Canon) manual mode is a ISO selection from the camera.
The dial is more convenient and, to my mind, more logical. To me the manual mode should never have the camera select something, that's not manual. :)
 
kinda.. i mean, its something you go and turn off once and back on when needed. Its not like it redefaults every time you turn it back to manual
the dial is definitely nicer for sure
 
I definitely find it nice to have it on the dial. But it's a convenience. I'd be able to live without it.
 
the feature is the same really, ones just a dial and ones a menu setting
 
It's easy to get spoiled when you don't have to go into the menu. :)
 
on the D3100, you live in menus ;)
 
2:05 AM
Not me, my cameras live on either TAv or M modes, with the odd switch to X or bulb. Those are all nicely beside each other and I'd go nuts if I had to menu dig to make manual be manual when I wanted it.
 
whats X mode?
 
X sync for flash
 
..? what?
 
Once you have a camera with real buttons for things, it's really painful to use menus. Spoiled, again. :)
Oooh ooh it's a question for the site. :)
 
ya, i have dial/button envy
 
2:06 AM
It's just shutter sync, it locks the shutter speed to 1/180 for the flash.
Yeah, I like how Pentax set up the mode dial, it was very clever in my opinion.
 
One thing I'd like that the K-5 is the multiple user modes.
I suggested that on pentaxforums, and I like to think they took my idea. :)
 
i hate all the stupid "easy modes" on the d3100
 
Yeah, nice feature for some. I haven't put them to use, but I know of those who have.
 
a landscape mode, and a portrait mode, etc
 
BTW, my kid, from the crying episode earlier: ""I don't want to calm down my mind, because then I will feel happy. And if I'm happy I won't be able to remember that I am so mad at you."
 
2:10 AM
@rfusca - The K-r has those, it is typical of the more entry level cameras.
 
@rfusca These modes would be awesome learning tools if they told you what they're doing.
 
I'm with Matt on that.
 
As it is, they're "I don't want to learn" modes. Not training wheels, but "screw it, you just ride a tricycle, okay?" wheels. :)
 
@mattdm ummm, they do on the D3100 its like portrait mode "This mode will set the aperture low and vary the shutter speed to blur the background" with text that pops up on the lcd
@JohnCavan ya i know
 
@rfusca ooh, cool.
 
2:12 AM
it even has a guided learning menu prompt that asks you questions to guide you through settings if you like
 
The modes are appropriate to a point and shoot, in my opinion, not a dSLR. Having said that, Nikon has been pretty clever on that front.
 
That's pretty neat. Does it have things like "snow"?
 
i don't remember off hand - i never actually took a picture in those modes and the camera is in the mail right now
 
@rfusca - In the mail? Did you sell it?
 
@JohnCavan adorama made a very reasonable offer over the telephone, so they paid to ship everything to them for a final quote
 
2:15 AM
Ah, very cool. I seem to recall you actually paid close to nothing for it, so looks good.
 
it'd be willing to take a lil' lower price overall if it all went at once - saves ALOT of hassle....and there's the possibility that with store credit towards new gear I could come out quite nicely
@JohnCavan ya, for about 800 of it, I paid less than 100
but its worth is now what it costs to replace, so that doesn't matter much
 
Yeah, indeed. By the way, if you buy a Pentax, set the raw format to DNG. It's the most portable option you can select for Pentax and probably keeps you protected against future software changes. Pentax is a small player, so avoiding proprietary output is probably a better choice.
 
@JohnCavan ya, i already convert my NEF to dng on LR import
 
Well, in terms of cost to replace... You spend $100 to buy a D3100, get $800 for it, and buy a $1500 camera, then your real cost is only $800. That's a very big saving, so I think it matters a lot. You're turning a 800% profit on your purchase...
 
@JohnCavan well, adorama would have to drastically undercut the quote they gave me on the phone for me to want my gear back, so its very very likely i'll be buying pentax - their quote just determine what i'll get
@JohnCavan well ya, looking at it like that lol
i really want that 77mm but its just too much
 
2:21 AM
Ya gotta look at it that way. I spent $1500 on a K-5 and you may spend only $800 on it, that's pretty good horse trading.
 
@JohnCavan sure, very true
 
@JohnCavan I think we had a question about that in which we disagreed. :)
 
dang that shipping is gonna take FOREVER to get to them (just checked the tracking :()
ive just gotta spoiled with shipping through amazon prime
 
@mattdm - We did. I can only give my experience, but I was using ACR and Photoshop with K-5 before the Adobe update and with software that was several years old. That would not be the case if I shot with PEF. So... mileage may vary, but I'll shoot DNG for that alone. Besides, photographic archival systems usually call for DNG, not that I'm likely to ever get asked to send to them.
 
@JohnCavan yeah, I think pretty much anything which supports PEF will support DNG.
 
2:26 AM
Yeah, but I'm not all that sure that everything that supports DNG will support PEF. :)
 
It will have to know about Pentax DNG, at least, though.
 
Know what? I'm serious, I dropped K-5 DNG images into a version of RawTherapee that was several years old and it handled it without question. That's the point of DNG. I highly recommend reading the specification, I have, and it's informative. Adobe makes it fully available for free.
 
Yeah, but RawTherapee already knows about what it needs to make Pentax DNGs work, right?
 
Anyways, I have yet to see a compelling argument for using PEF when the camera gives you the DNG option up front. File size differences are minor and getting even less relevant today.
 
To my knowledge, dcraw can read K-5 PEFs as well as it can DNGs, and that's all that really matters, right?
 
2:34 AM
@mattdm - Pentax DNGs are just DNGs, there isn't really anything special about them that I'm aware of, they looked the same in several versions of ACR and RawTherapee. However, the K-5 PEF format required software updates.
 
But DNG is just a container. You could put Foveon data in a DNG, right?
 
No, DNG is more than that. Like I said, reading the spec is enlightening, but if I recall correctly, Foveon won't. Part of the spec includes the sensor bayer layout needed for the demosaicing algorithm. DNG is a raw format, it's not an "embed another" container though the format allows for the original to be kept as part of the conversion were done in software (doesn't apply to Pentax cameras shooting DNG native).
 
Hmmm. I guess I don't care very strongly. I just don't see a disadvantage in PEF given that open source software does support all current and past cameras.
I don't see a particularly strong advantage either, really. It's kind of curious that Pentax still supports both.
 
Anyways, as I said, Pentax is a minor player and there is risk that software may choose to drop support for them. However, no graphics application is going to drop an Adobe supported format if they have any hope of being viable, so DNG just seems safer to me. For now, it's probably six of one, half a dozen of the other, but that can change.
 
Yeah. If that happens, you can always convert to DNG at that point.
 
2:44 AM
I'll avoid the Christmas rush. :) The format proliferation is a bit nutty though, especially given that all of them are based on TIFF.
 
Huh. That looks better not in a thumbnail. :)
 
Anyways gotta run... Getting late for me and I think the billion degrees of humidity today wore me out. Later guys, have fun and happy shooting!
 
damn, i soldered up this whole .05inch to .1inch pcb converter and realized i mapped pin 1 to 2, 2 to 1, 3 to 4, 4 to 3...*sigh*
 
nice action ;)
 
2:50 AM
What that needs is the other shoe somewhere along the right edge of the frame. Oh well. :)
 
lol
liking the 15mm?
 
Yeah. Still some getting used to it, but it does give me more options.
 
sure
 
Then she ran into me. Objects in lens may be closer than they appear.
 
lol
you like f/7.1 320 sec iso 100
 
3:02 AM
okay bedtime. ttyl
 
ciao
 
 
4 hours later…
 
5 hours later…
12:41 PM
@rfusca Those were on the same day, and I had the camera on "MTF" program mode, which picks the optimal aperture for the lens. (Ha!), and since I saw the shutter speed was high enough I just left it like that.
 
 
2 hours later…
2:47 PM
@mattdm thats cool
 
3:02 PM
That's a software feature they put in the K-7/K-5 and not the K-x/K-r.
 
damn lol
its gonna be so hard not to find a way to buy the k-5
i wonder what my kid goes for on ebay....
 
3:23 PM
@mattdm its getting bad, i think I had a dream of a new camera last night lol
 
@rfusca Next up, dreams of new lenses.
 
@mattdm ya, i've run into an odd problem...pentax has odd focal lengths which is causing it more difficult to make a decision....
like i liked my 50mm ALOT and it did great portraits, but i found it a bit too long if I needed more than one person in the shot...so the 40mm sounds great....but then I started looking at the 35mm, and having macro would be nice...but then a really great portrait lens would be nice too, so I starting debating if I could get away with just a 70mm...ARRG
then i started looking at third party 2.8 zooms and that just made it worse lol
 
4:06 PM
Chat has turned into such a Pentax club lately. Maybe you guys should start a room of your own. ;-)
Apparently none of you guys got the memo that Canon and Nikon roxxxx, and Pentax suxxxxxx!!!
;-)
 
@JayLancePhotography Nah. I just figured Canon's already got a marketing department, you know? <g>
Osprey nest @300mm. Unfortunately, I really needed about 800mm to get close enough for a decent shot.
 
4:32 PM
i'm cursed....my laptop died sunday, my mediapc died last night, and my scooter died today
with all my camera eq in the mail, its a little nervous
@DLambert that is some funky bokeh..what lens?
 
5:21 PM
@rfusca I think just the 70mm would be hard. What I did was get the 40mm and then the 70mm a little bit later. :)
So, I just went to an interesting talk by a professor here working on camera sensor designs.
 
oh ya?
 
He's working on a gigapixel sensor, where each pixel is one bit.
 
interesting
 
And then it's read thousands of times in a very short timespan (microseconds).
 
i think i'd heard of something similar
 
5:23 PM
This avoids the full-well problem, because basically you have a well that's as long as you want to read for.
 
very interesting
 
And they can optimize the sensor so that only the ones are actually read, and since most of the individual samples are mostly zeros with sporadic ones, it's relatively storage-efficient.
 
hmm
 
They figure their one-gigapixel sensor will yield the effective resolution of a 10-megapixel sensor but with huge dynamic range.
But right now, they've only got a 32×32 pixel prototype.
 
ya,thats what I was thinking and the DR is really more important
 
5:26 PM
0.001 megapixels. :)
 
lol
even optimally, you know it'd still be 10 years till market
 
@rfusca yeah. Maybe less for specialized scientific applications, which is what they're targeting first.
 
@mattdm sure
@mattdm whats a scientific application that requires huge DR?
 
Apparently some medical imaging. I really have no idea, though.
 
hmm wierd
i woulda thought resolution would be uber important for most medical stuff
so, if a camera could have a large enough DR ie *huge*- would you even need different ISOs?
 
5:36 PM
Super pumped right now, had to share this with other photogs - just rented the Canon 70-200mm f2.8 IS II for the weekend.
 
nice
 
@rfusca Canon 70-300 f/4-5.6 lens. I was shooting at ISO 800 & it was pretty noisy, so some of that is a result of trying to clean up the noise, I believe.
 
@dpollitt for a particular occasion?
 
just a wedding I'm shooting
haven't used the II version before, just the I
 
@dpollitt If I was forced to get rid of all but one of my lenses... the 70-200 is the one I'd hold on to. Sweet, sweet piece of glass...
 
5:37 PM
@DLambert ya, thats just bad bokeh - i thought the Sigma was bad, but its much better than that
@dpollitt whats the diff between I and II?
 
complete awesomeness +10
 
of course lol
@JayLancePhotography that can be your scepter in the new Canon regime
 
higher optical performance, better IS, better focus ring, max magnification, min focus dist
 
@dpollitt nice
whats it cost to buy it?
 
2500
 
5:40 PM
@rfusca I've seen lots better bokeh from the same lens, though.
 
have you seen that Sigma is coming out with a 120-300mm 2.8?
 
@JayLancePhotography Yea, it is optically just magic. Very useful range as well. I'm a wide angle fan, but this would absolutely be my 2nd lens in the bag
 
@mattdm my biggest concern with getting the 40 is that it looks like a toy lol
 
@dpollitt In my circle of photographers we refer to it as the "Golden Stovepipe" because it lets in so much light, and everything that you shoot through it is "golden." :-)
 
haha, true, true
 
5:49 PM
lol
 
I've shot entire weddings where I didn't use anything else...
 
Its hard to choose between something like that and the trifecta, 35mm 1.4, 85 1.2, and 135 2.0
I will probably shoot about 90% of the wedding this weekend with a 35 1.4 and the 70-200 2.8
 
@dpollitt two bodies?
 
3 :-) but yea I'll have 2 on me
 
what bodies?
 
5:51 PM
40d, 20d, rebel xt
shows my lack of investment into bodies
 
ic
 
I'll shoot it all with the 40d probably
just have my 20d on me for the moments when I have a fixed length on the 40d and the bride is coming right at me. Good for a second angle
 
the 40d and 20d were still their pro line of bodies in their time though, yes?
 
'eh. mid, not really pro
 
ah, ic
 
5:53 PM
Holding out for the 5d mk3 to step up my game. Been investing my $ into lenses for the time being
 
everybody's waiting for the 5d mk3
 
I'm just a weekend warrior, so I rent as needed
 
sure
 
Jay is holding his breath listening to me haha
 
I got nothing against weekend warriors or renting... I've done both in my career. Everyone's gotta start somewhere!
No one shows up fully formed armed with a trio of 5DmkIIs and a bag full of L glass. :-)
 
5:55 PM
haha, in my local circles, they just completely beat on guys like me
 
@dpollitt wow, that sucks
 
I can take it. I understand some, maybe most new wedding photographers are completely unprepared and do a poor job. Thats not me, so I'm fine with it.
 
That's just 'cause they're scared. They either don't understand how to be successful, why they're successful... Or they're just lazy and don't want to work hard.
 
@Jay didn't start life as a pro photog, so I think he understands living a double life ;)
 
In my opinion. :-)
People who act as though they didn't have a 'beginning' to their photography career where they 'did what they had to' in order to make ends meet annoy me.
As though there's "one right way" to do it...
 
5:57 PM
I don't aspire to be full time, I like it as is. Handful of weddings per year, shoot who I want, do as much landscape as I like, etc. I'm also not good at marketing myself, so full time would be difficult.
yea for sure, many means to an end
 
@dpollitt then its all good....so many people hate being pro at something when they HAVE to do their once beloved hobby
 
I tend to think that there's enough pie for everyone, but those that get chapped at 'weekend warriors' are invariably of the mindset that 'there's a limited amount of pie, so I must get as big a piece for myself as possible... At the expense of everyone else.'
 
making cakes went that way for me. I loved to do it...starting selling and it took off overnight - went from nothing to every waking moment baking...now I haven't made a cake in like a year
 
Mmmm... Cake. :-)
 
i make some damn fine cake too :)
had a cheesecake sold for $250
 
6:00 PM
@JayLancePhotography Yea I pretty much grabbed an L general purpose and a 70-200 2.8 my first wedding, the 70-200 is what really set that event apart. Haven't shot a wedding without one before.
 
Wow. Nom nom nom...
 
that does sound tasty. cheese in a cake
 
@rfusca Each individual 1-bit sensor has a threshold where it trip from zero to one; adjusting that would be the equivalent to ISO.
 
@JayLancePhotography I am familiar with way too many photographers who subscribe to the limited pie mindset. They always struggle with "moms with DSLRs who shoot a wedding or a baby, etc". Drives them nuts. I just laugh.
 
6:05 PM
@mattdm i meant in general, not with that particular sensor though
 
@dpollitt Many of them don't realize (or are too lazy to bother) that they should be competing in a different market... They're going after the wrong customers.
 
@JayLancePhotography ya
 
yea, we could just all take the Jesh de Rox route and charge like 15k to be friends :-)
Now that is my kind of customers
If you are not familiar, he charges 16,500USD for 1 day coaching :-) Its on sale from 20k.
 
dang
 
must be nice
 
6:16 PM
@dpollitt For that kinda money he'd need to be able to demonstrate that I'd be able to increase my business by twice the amount I paid him in the year I went... None of the high-priced single-speaker/coach/whatever guys can do that because what they are selling is "how you produce work like I do it," not "how you market work like YOU do it."
I don't want to be Jesh de Rox (or whoever) I want to do ME... But more successfully.
 
Absolutely. Somehow he actually sold some of these sessions. he has fame I suppose.
 
Mike Colon is the same way... Slightly above average photographer, but a brilliant marketer to other photographers... "Pay $8500 (plus travel) to my exotic location and I'll spend 2 days teaching you how I do what I do..." No thanks...
He's a 'rockstar photographer' so invariably he's able to lure in photographers who are looking for the 'quick way' to become a famous photographer.
'Cause apparently hard work and perseverance aren't in fashion this year. ;-)
 
never in fashion!
 
The problem is that they invariably find that they spent $8500 (or whatever) to hear the message 'you need to work really hard and persevere.' Oops. Shoulda checked out a business book from the library. Coulda had the same less for $2 in late fees...
 
there's alot of businesses that revolving around marketing more than product because the public isn't educated enough to know what the differences between various product levels are
local computer stores are like that
it doesn't matter if you're 'doing it right' and cheaper, if the other guy has a cool commercial, he wins
 
6:28 PM
For sure. Your average consumer couldn't tell a good photograph from a bad one, but they will almost always buy good customer service over bad customer service... In fact most people will pay MORE for roughly the same product if there is a good customer experience in it for them (witness: Apple).
The truth is that the "overnight success," the unicorn, and the "photographer that gets great success and doesn't have to do any marketing or sales because of their 'uniqueness of vision," all come from the same place... mythology. :-)
 
Hi, guys I am new to chat room. Is there anything that I should take care of?
 
You mean, like do you have to sign in, or something? :-)
 
@JayLancePhotography wait...unicorns aren't real?!?
 
More real than the photographer who becomes famous and successful without having to put in any hard work. :-)
 
i've been duped
@JayLancePhotography You should wield your 70-200mm 2.8 scepter while mounted on a royal unicorn in New Canon-ia ;)
 
6:44 PM
Wait... what? We traded windmills for unicorns?
 
@rfusca Consider it done. :-)
 
6:56 PM
so the 70-200 is now a scepter?
awesome, I will let everyone know this weekend when i am wielding it
 
Make sure to remind them that they must bow before its awesomeness...
 
@JayLancePhotography So you have a photography company but also must do training sessions "jay"?
 
@JayLancePhotography sweet
 

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