The Ink Spot

Christoph

8:54 AM

anybody awake?

Vincent

9:33 AM

good morning @Christoph

Christoph

@Vincent ah hi

Vincent

'awake' is quite the word, but at least I'm capable of typing answers :)

Christoph

@Vincent I'm looking for feedback on a diagram. However, I'm not sure how I should ask for that to get good answers. The patient is here: tex.stackexchange.com/a/159402/4543

Vincent

Ah, scientific diagrams, then you want either @Benteh

or @joojaa

We do have a chat room for critique, but it's so rarely populated that I can't find it atm

Christoph

thanks for mentioning, they will probably smell the prey then

Vincent

9:45 AM

If you make it a question, you'd best be off reading the critique guidelines, that ensure your Q is focused on a certain aspect you want to improve, and is thus possibly answered with an objectively 'correct' answer.

adding the tag critique is also appreciated :)

oh and: haven't met you here before, right? shakes hands

Christoph

well, it is a diagram, but I'd like to create a version with a larger domain. It will have a large free area in the bottom right that would be good for placing tables with exact values. So it's also a table question (which font to pick, for example)

yes I'm new here! thanks for the welcome

Vincent

split it into different questions, then. SE is ill-suited to Qs with multiple sub-Qs

Christoph

partial answers to very broad questions work well on codereview se, though

Vincent

say, I see an answer that perfectly answers part I, but flubs on part II. do I upvote? Do I downvote? Do I accept?

eh, yeah, we're a bit different :)

Christoph

it's them who are different, compared to all other se sites. And tex se is also very tolerant in that respect

brb lunch...

Vincent

9:50 AM

Based on what I know about LaTeX, I can imagine

Vincent

10:04 AM

@Christoph compare graphicdesign.stackexchange.com/questions/41221/…

joojaa

10:30 AM

WHO summoned me!

;(

oops sorry :D

Vincent

It was I

I rubbed the lamp to clean it, I swear!

:P

joojaa

LOL

Vincent

someone's in need of your scrutiny, joojaa. see above discussion.

joojaa

@Christoph The diagram looks fine i would make the mm paper grid less visible and have more space but other then that

Ive actually done h,s diagrams before

Ah heres the sound byte youtube.com/watch?v=iJ8T1F9-HYs

@Vincent Did all the others go for winter slumber already?

Vincent

I guess? Or maybe it's DST++ in the States?

joojaa

10:37 AM

IM playing HS and avoiding work

you mean sleep deprivation time?

@Christoph Oh and by the way i tend to do those drawings directly with postscript. Why use PStricks when you can do ps yourself with less code :)

Christoph

I do them with tikz and pgfplots, that's much more fun than ps

@joojaa and thanks for looking!

joojaa

naah if you want fun use mathematica

huh?! a removed Vincent

Christoph

@joojaa well, the choice of tools is not my actual concern here. My plan is to create a diagram with larger domain, which will have a large unused area in the lower right corner. I'd fill it with steam tables

joojaa

sure

Vincent

yeah I got forcibly ejected. Possibly because I rubbed the wrong lamp.

joojaa

10:44 AM

If you can plot ion allready gridded paper

Christoph

I'd create the steam tables with pretty much the same code that creates the small info box that's already there

joojaa

sure

just saying about the fun of tools

so if you can get ultra thin grids use that

@Christoph You might consider coloring the are between isoparams

Christoph

@joojaa I don't think I understand exactly. Do you have an example?

joojaa

wait generating

@Christoph might add more visual appeal especially good if you can actually print with spot colors

sorry for ripping your work :)

Christoph

11:03 AM

@joojaa no problem! and it's posted on se so it's cc-by-sa anyway iirc

joojaa

@Christoph yes but i didnt attach attribution to image :)

Christoph

@joojaa no worries ;)

well, I'm not sure if I like the idea. It's true that following iso-lines can be hard with the current way they are done, and that a visual aid might be helpful. otoh, stepping back from the diagram should make it look like a zebra

especially when I go A0

Vincent

but... zebras are cool...

Christoph

zebras are not property diagrams, though

Vincent

...not? disappointed look

joojaa

11:12 AM

nothing says you have to be comventional or that bold in color

Vincent

funny things aside, a blue or green or even light brown might work better at not being very in-your-face

and reduce the zebra effect

joojaa

11:29 AM

yeah, thing is the big size changes things so thin lines themselves will look weird. And engineering drawings ARE artworks and should eb considered such, you have quite significant leeway in making them, we are nolonger in the 1960's and using plotters only you know.

Vincent

then still... scientists and design are not the best of friends.

especially when composition, usability and typography are concerned

joojaa

lol

No its just lazyness

the thinking goes like follows:

1. im not really paid to do nice graphics

2. so doing so is furtehr than i should go and waste of money

but then

1. Would you really get something more done if your drawings suck and are so ugly you cant show them to anybody?

Vincent

nah. I used to campaign for usable presentations, with slides not crammed full with data. My criticisms weren't well-received

joojaa

2. Some of the stuff is done on your dime anyway

Vincent

I used to think that I could make some money out of this: scientists being real bad at presentation and design, and me being a chemistry MSc.

joojaa

11:34 AM

well yes sure... but than the engineers and scientists wonder why their business major bosses dont invest

Vincent

But I gave up when I ran into their strongheadedness and conservatism

joojaa

a good well tought of graphic beats the day

hide data in 20 graphics not so much

Vincent

...and draws new investers, no?

joojaa

Thing is scientists and engineers are INVESTED in others not understanding

Vincent

ah yeah. I forgot that science was about hoarding knowledge, not spreading it. Stupid me :/

joojaa

11:36 AM

Blathering about with too much data is a common strategy when
1. you dont know better
2. dont know how to explain
3,. dont want to share

Vincent

...want to impress lesser gods because they'll decide about your next grant

joojaa

Students once told me that its weird how I see it as my job to actually teach and make them understand the simple stuff and not all the complicated things nobody understands.

Anyway its a bit like no banker gets fired because they are doing what everybody else does.

Vincent

Hm, I believe we discussed this before: the unwillingness to teach among many academics

joojaa

yes. anyway its a more go with the flow mentality thing

Vincent

as opposed to doing research, teaching is a hassle and to be done with as quickly as possible

joojaa

11:40 AM

doing something better or even different requires you to expose problems in the system, change is painful. Most people want to avoid that

Vincent

why are you in engineering and not in psychology? :P

joojaa

I was thinking of going to do a degree in organizational psychology yes

Because i see that the biggest gains in the world mightcome from engineering a bit better bosses and workflows in humans attitudes.

Anyway im interested in solving problems not talking about them

just talking you might have noticed i like talking too

Vincent

hehe :)

never met an enigineer with that trait :P

Christoph

sorry I can't really participate in the discussion right now but I'll come back as soon as I can...

joojaa

NP

Vincent

11:53 AM

hey, no apologies needed.

it's a chat: everyonoe drops in and out as life allows

joojaa

No, you mean i can go at will?

I tought i was bound to the lamp

poof Vanishes in puff of smoke. Muhahaha-hahaha.....

Vincent

oh, you'll be back

no one can resist the lure of the lamp

:)

joojaa

hahaa

seems that i can not leave

wether i log out or not im still here. Wonder whats binding me here

@Vincent you dont happen to have a good template for CV would you?

my current one sucks ass

Vincent

12:09 PM

er, no.

the last time I needed to make a resumé is more than five years ago

joojaa

same problem

@Vincent is pink a good technology color :)

Vincent

...depends. If it's a shade of pure red (H=0) or slightly more orange-ish (H=~10), I'd say yes

Pure, full-on magenta might work as well

I'd shy away from shades of magenta or purple, though

joojaa

or #a80290 something like

magenta sounds good

Vincent

yeah, #a80290 shoudl work

that's more of a shade. Dark, muted colours will work anytime

eh. I meant 'tints of pure red'

joojaa

yeah

Vincent

12:20 PM

tint = mixture with white; shade = mixture with grey; tone = mixture with black

joojaa

yeah dont go nuts

:P you guys complain about my formulae after all

Vincent

eye for an eye :)

joojaa

howabout 90%magenta 80% yellow would it be better

Ath okay full magenta 0.3 yellow seems to work well

Vincent

could work. I'd saturate a bit more, but that's taste

ah, that's quite the magenta :)

joojaa

Okay now what fonts good lemme see

Vincent

12:24 PM

something sans serif will stand out

joojaa

Akzidenz Grotesk

Vincent

most of your peers will use Garamond, Times or Palatino anyway. Or Computer Modern (shivers)

nice

joojaa

hmm need to enable that font

Vincent

'Helvetica always works', and AG is quite close to it

I prefer AG though, it has some more geometric quantities I like

...you looking for a new job?

joojaa

Sure my contract ends at year shift

Good to have options if the shool does not have money

Vincent

12:28 PM

ah I see

joojaa

WTF no AKZIDENZ

Vincent

it's a commercial font, no?

joojaa

Yes but i tought i had the entire adobe font kit

Helvetica Neue it is

I like Akzinez better

Vincent

still better than Arial, Verdana, Tahoma or any of those other miscreants that Micro$oft calls typefaces

joojaa

Whatabout ITC Avant Garde

Vincent

12:42 PM

depends... personally, I dislike because I think it a bit too geometric

I don't think it would be a good choice for a scientific resumé

imh, ho

joojaa

yes yes

10 pt size?

Vincent

11

always 11 if possible

joojaa

ultracondensed :P

Vincent

meh, you are allowed to have multiple pages in academia anyway

might as well use 15pt leading as well

joojaa

No no im applyingfor a MEMS manufacturer

Vincent

12:47 PM

MEMS?

joojaa

Microelectromechanical systems you know motion sensors and stuff like in your phone

But now i must go and free the kids

CU

Vincent

see ya!

Christoph

1:26 PM

well, that took longer than I feared. I see joojaa has already left, but I got some things to think about, that's good.

Zach Saucier

what things?

Christoph

I was chatting about a diagram with vincent and joojaa

hey @Zach

o/

been zombified?

1:29 PM

ya :)

Vincent

how's a cerebellum with garlic sound like now?

Zach Saucier

garlic, maybe not. With bacon - definite yes!

Vincent

lol

how's your talk coming along?

Zach Saucier

still gathering resources and such over time, haven't started working on anything past the outline

Still ~6 months away :)

Vincent

ah indeed. For some reason, I remembered it was next month.

joojaa

2:18 PM

hullo

Im back

So now i have green and vivid magenta

Very conservative combo :) I found my fontlist yeah akzidenz is there

Vincent

pics or it didn't happen :)

joojaa

how did you hide all the guide stuffs in ID again...

ahh there it is

Vincent

Zach Saucier

shift+w

Vincent

[kbd:w]

drat

[tag: w]

Zach Saucier

2:26 PM

:P

Vincent

--_--

Zach Saucier

nospace

Vincent

w

\o/

Zach Saucier

jokes

Heil

joojaa

Not so sure about my profile

not far yet

Zach Saucier

2:28 PM

@joojaa I would guess you're a teenage girl based on the colors :D

joojaa

Yeah

But i kindof like the combo

the color profile may be a bit off

howabout 5 colors and 12 different weights of font

Zach Saucier

that's a lot of different weights

joojaa

;)

well the font comes in ~60 variants

Vincent

@ZachSaucier Hydra?

joojaa

anyway the numers were a joke i tought that 2 colors and 3 font variants would be ok

im just experimenting at this stage

Zach Saucier

2:33 PM

@Vincent you must have missed the joke above it :)

Vincent

should be doable. But the colours are very 80s :)

yeah, I was working while you made it :)

ah I see

joojaa

im predicting 80's neons will do a comeback next friday or so

Vincent

@joojaa why don't the white letters also 'eat' into the green bar?

joojaa

Its poisonous?

:)

Vincent

lol

joojaa

2:35 PM

I dunno maybe it could im just laying things out i was thinking maybe it could only eat half the green

Besides, if the colors arent 80's they are 60's or 70 or 1870's or something unless i print in ultraviolet, or infrared range they wont really be new

Vincent

personally, I'd either desaturate the colours or add some dark grey

joojaa

Yeah but then it looks like mokai

colorsublime.com/?page=7

Maybe i could be monokai

Vincent

sry, I mean muting your colours by adding a bit of dark grey to them, not as an additional colour

joojaa

ah ok

my profiles are totally messed up

Vincent

colour profiles, or the one below your boots? :P

joojaa

2:50 PM

no the side of my face :P

better

Vincent

way better!

joojaa

can i boost the green since its so rare anyway

Vincent

I guess you can, there isn't much of it.

have you tried switching the colours around? green field, magenta bar?

joojaa

see now that the green isnt so poisnoous CV liked it and ate it all without getting sick

Vincent

hehe

joojaa

2:53 PM

yeah

I dont like it :P

Nam in white between the addres info and cv?

Or perhaps above CV?

Vincent

above CV would be too tight. I'd say between, with the same baseline as the postal code and the top matching CV's

that is, unless your name is about as long as some of your Suomish words are :P

joojaa

No my name has 2 times 5 letters

Vincent

Taävetii Hämäläinen or somesuch

joojaa

firsta nd last name thet is

my name is "Janne Ojala"

Vincent

I knew -- it's legible in the pics :)

joojaa

2:58 PM

yeah thats why i deleted them

anyway my email sint actually hard to guess now is it

Vincent

chuckle

sorry, too busy searching for spamlists to add you to :P

joojaa

I dont read email anyway so who cares

Besides Otto-Ville Keski-Jyrä-Lähteenmäki is pretty long finnish name

Vincent

that... wouldn't fit.

joojaa

Yeah nor would it fit any official form ANYWHERE in the world

Vincent

'just call me OV' :)

joojaa

3:05 PM

personally i like the surname Puukko-Ahmed

Vincent

that sounds like an arabic woman having married a Suomi man

joojaa

Quite literary it means a knife wielding middleeastern

Vincent

lol

we used to have all kinds of fun with married women's names back at the bank office I worked at

joojaa

And drumms... She is a doctor, deals in painkillers

Vincent

some people have the weirdes combinations

joojaa

3:07 PM

yeah thing is like you see you can have tripple combos also

Vincent

ah, we had a police spokesperson doing his thing when there was some fuss about the police's pistols. His name was Pang, which neatly translates as 'Bang'.

joojaa

LOL

I bet you they chose him for the job because of hi name

Vincent

and that's not to mention the tv program that had an expert on old art , mr. Aardewerk -- 'pottery'

nomen omen est

joojaa

Yeah i can understand dutch remember

Vincent

ah, I forgt

joojaa

3:09 PM

its not so supprising that earth manufacturing is pottery

Well my name is "ditch land"

its pretty common so i can dissapear in lot of similar names

Vincent

ah, the bliss of anonimity

joojaa

possibly also "farm by a ditch"

Vincent

I do have at least four exact name-matchers, so I know how it feels

joojaa

well i have 5 in helsinki alone

wait coensus says 20 helsinki

Vincent

one of them has an ImdB profile

joojaa

3:12 PM

lol

theres currently living 11,192 persons with my surname 670 of them live outside of finland

Vincent

hehe

I have a rather common first name, especially among my generation. My last is bit less so, though

although there's lots of them with different interjections

joojaa

there are/have been 32,273 persons since 1899 with my first name

In finland

no

Vincent

lol. let me guess, you're analytic? :P

joojaa

its free data

vrk.fi

how come i can answer your question before you asked it?

Do you dutch also have free map data nowadays? Its pretty cool that you can jsut roll out your own map from goverment databanks

Vincent

we have a name institute, but its site seems to be pretty erratic

it worked for me just a couple days ago, bu now it's offline

Dutch govt and IT don't mix well.

joojaa

3:27 PM

Ah like our hospitals

apparently a nurse is as far away from tech as you can get

Vincent

well, to be honest, most nurses I have met... check.

they would confuse a USB stick with a suppository

joojaa

Apparently the kids need daily feeding. Weird stuff ;)

apparently hunger and want to eat is not mutually inclusive

@JohnB how things at your end

JohnB

rainy!

joojaa

im catching you on the year rank

Vincent

hey JohnB

JohnB

3:40 PM

uh oh, time to answer some easy questions!

hey!

Zach Saucier

the Pokemon project sounds fun to work on

Vincent

how're you? your peppers frozen already? Or did they drown?

JohnB

who let a zombie past our fortified defenses :O

Vincent

ah darn, didn't you water the plants again?

joojaa

@JohnB Its nowing here at the moment BY the way

JohnB

3:42 PM

@Vincent good, they're not frozen yet but I've started to put some in smaller pots to bring them in for the cold weather

@joojaa brrr

joojaa

naah its only -1 degree celsius

Vincent

when doesn't it snow at your place, @joojaa ?

JohnB

my Oculus Rift arrived yesterday, so most of my work day is just sitting here wanting to go home and play with it

Zach Saucier

hah

Vincent

ooh nice

don't get motion sick, tho

JohnB

3:45 PM

I do get chronically seasick but didn't notice any problems last night

joojaa

i ahve a iocculus at work

abyway i havent even contemplated on bringing the wither equipment form storage yet a hoodie is fine untill -5 degrees

JohnB

it sounds like the dumbest thing ever, but so far my favorite software so far is called Riftmax. It's a VR cinema, you can watch video files on your computer or on YouTube and it's like you're watching them in a movie theater

@joojaa do you know which one? DK1 or DK2?

Vincent

@JohnB how heavy is the thing? as in, the stuff you wear on your head

joojaa

dk1

ive tested dk 2 for 10 mins tough

JohnB

like ~~half a kilo~~ one freedom unit maybe

Vincent

3:50 PM

oh, that should be doable.

wait, half a kilo?

since when do you Merricans acknowledge the existence of metric units? :P

JohnB

fixed

Zach Saucier

@joojaa how do I find a domain that minimizes a triple integral? Does it have anything to do with the function being integrated? I would think it would be 0, but that's not right

joojaa

They actually tried to convert to metric in murrica but the oilcrisis halted that because it was bad for gasoline sales

JohnB

I try to use kg/celcius when talking to non-Americans :P

I know we're the stubborn ones

joojaa

@ZachSaucier dervate it

Zach Saucier

3:53 PM

ok

joojaa

so it would be testing teh 0 points of the second integral and test those