Today in "Hilariously Out of Context," a quote attributed to Zen Buddhism:

> You speak, and it is dumb.

So, this question got a downvote. rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/76675/….

I don't understand that. It seems like a pretty reasonable question.

I'm not even sure if it's okay to ask in the comments why someone downvoted it.

@Jack Someone thought it didn't show enough research effort, was unclear, or wasn't useful.

Yeah, I guess . . . .

@Jack It rarely leads to a comment from the original downvoter, because they've moved on. It sometimes will lead to someone else saying "I didn't downvote, but maybe it's this thing", but that's guesswork that at best does point out a possible problem.

Generally, asking for comments to explain downvotes leads to arguments that don't help improve the question.

That too happens unfortunately often.

If the downvoter had a suggestion for improving it, they'd have said so already.

Folks tend to be more talkative rather than less in these situations.

@Jack it's a pretty straightforward application of the basic targeting rules, so I could see someone thinking this feels like "read me the manual." I wouldn't downvote it, but would think it completely reasonable if that's why someone did.

Probably the best thing you can do is accept people will vote how they will, even when you think they're lunatics for doing so. Single votes don't matter, the amalgam of the community's votes does. If someone votes in a way that surprises you, consider if there might be something there that you haven't noticed - if you can't spot anything, that's that, move on. They might've misread, or they might have different thresholds for their voting than you.

(I draw my personal "read me the manual" line at whether all of the info required to answer the question is contained on a single page. But this is certainly a matter on which reasonable people can differ.)

Wasn't that the case here?

Nope: you've got a spell description on one page with it's "target" line, but the definition of how that targeting works on another page.

@Smurfton I assume the targeting rules are on a different page than polymorph.

Oh, ok. yes. That works.

p.204 for targeting rules, p.266 fo rthe spell description.

I'm really sympathetic to anyone who finds it hard to read the PHB cover-to-cover and assemble some sort of coherent understanding.

People will say it's really well laid-out. In my experience, those people are comparing it to the last three or four iterations of a D&D PHB they've run the same exercise with.

I don't think I've ever said "This D&D or d20 System book is really well laid out."

LOL. there's a warforged hosting a game show in the middle of the dungeon we're in

@nitsua60 So far the only D&D book I'd consider laid out well is the 4e PHB.

@yeah, it's a completely straightforward reading of the targeting rules, except at least one other person read it differently, and it was a new user, obviously enthusiastic about the game. I'm just sorry to see them slapped. As a new user, it was hard for me to figure out how it worked. Still is. I know no one in here has any answers or solution.

A friend of mine was in love with how well laid out it was. He tried to make a wizard and then a psionic character in 3.5e. Class description over here, short spell summary list in a totally different part of the book (mixed in with other, irrelevant, spell summary lists), followed later in the book by the actual spells. Completely atrocious for him being able to look up his class's stuff.

D&D 4e: Wizard's spells are immediately following the Wizard class's other features.

He finds his class's page in the book and whammo, he's located everything about his character he'd need to look up except for his feats, and there's no other classes' spells mixed in with them.

4e was pretty good in that regard.

@doppelgreener Ahh.... the one I don't own. I'm partial to red-box, but that's probably just nostalgia: it's been at least twenty years since I've seen mine.

They still had a lot of important things stuck in random side boxes, though, and the indexing was atrocious.

@Pixie ;3; I keep having things to do that are not "play undertale".

@doppelgreener Aww, yeah. Cass and I haven't been able to get to it in a while now (though I've been enjoying Stardew Valley on my own instead).

@Pixie i have another friend who's been playing that a lot and enjoying it :)

I can't wait for multiplayer. I have a friend who's even more into it than I am, so I already have someone I know will play with me. xD

You guys have a good evening! Good night!

night, @Jack

Goodnight! :D

Seeya.

So.

Went to see Gods of Egypt.

I intended on watching a movie so bad it was good.

And ended up watching a movie so good it was good.

that does surprise me

They were true to the mythology for the most part.

And that earned them a lot of respect of my part.

Not that it was anything impressive plot-wise.

But it set a new standard for what I expect of the bound to happen new mythology adaptations.

I am usually extra skeptical of anything trying to depict Egypt's mythology in some way

They should tackle Chinese, next.

@trogdor, it changes a few things. For example, Horus was born before Osiris was split into 14 tiny little pieces.

most shows and movies I have seen can't help but make Anubis evil

Osiris was still cut into 14 tiny little pieces regardless.

Anubis isn't evil here.

Set is.

But even in the mythology, Set is kinda evil anyway.

there you go, makes much more sense there XD

The Usurper always is.

So yeah.

They managed to make a faithful adaptation for the most part.

Really happy with that.

to be fair, it isn't just Anubis, other mythologies have a god of death who is not necessarily evil, and many kinds of media can't help but stick to making them evil because death = bad

like Hades

someone had to be the god of death, he just happened to draw a straw for it

To be fair, Hades isn't the most nice of individuals.

he is not

He is not necessarily evil, but he is kinda grumpy after getting stuck with the shorter end of the stick.

@Althis "isn't the most nice of individuals" could be said about just about anyone in the Greek pantheon.

but he isn't like, the villain who wants to take over Olympus that a few shows and movies have insisted

@doppelgreener yeah, I mean just look at Zeus

Dionysus was kinda nice.

A drunk, but a nice one.

Great orgies.

10/10.

lol

I think Artemis, Apollo and eventually Hercules were nice as well.

The problem really is with their ideal of what a "King" is.

A king at that age was really a despot.

You had to be ruthless, and you had to let people know you were above them.

So that is what Zeus did.

And Poseidon.

All kings really.

I've just learned that Saturn is a Roman reflection of Cronus (and not, as I thought, a god of partying and revelling like Dionysus), but also that Cronus and Saturn have very different roles.

Even Minos was an ass.(Pun intended)

> [Saturn] was the first god of the Capitol, known since the most ancient times as Saturnius Mons, and was seen as a god of generation, dissolution, plenty, wealth, agriculture, periodic renewal and liberation. In later developments he came to be also a god of time. His reign was depicted as a Golden Age of plenty and peace. -- Saturn, Wikipedia, therefore very correct in all ways.

lol.

I didn't know that.

I thought he was interchangeable for Chronos.

In Greece he's just that one asshole god of time who also created the pantheon of gods, but tried to eat all of them to stop it.

Also, apparently, has a hard time distinguishing his children from rocks.

He was probably very drunk.

I cannot believe a whole baby is easy to swallow.

Gotta have that anesthetic.

I imagine he's usually depicted as quite giant while swallowing them whole.

→ 57 messages moved to Discussion on question by Althis: Why is Intelligence usually a character skill, instead of player skill?

@RollingFeles [wave]

Good morning!

What's new?

Gathered with my dnd group at saturday. We planned to play Eldritch Horror(tabletop game) and after that play dnd session irl. We never played irl before, only roll20.

Well, and this time it didn't come to dnd too.

Because we spent 4 hours just on rules :) But still that was very fun.

Rooolz.

First session of a new game?

Yep.

Great Players vs Box game.

H. P. Lovecraft style: detectives vs Zee Old Onez(said with creepy voice)

Ooer.

One of the players took a loan, to acquire some items. Loan then turned into dark pact. And dark pact, if activated(player should roll 1d6 at some points in the game and with 1 on dice pact is activated) forces player to kill one of the other player. Well, not the player, but his character: detective.

We've already anticipated who would be dead soon, but this player's detective lost his mind, so dark pact was never activated :)

Mmm, tasty madness.

I'm not fond of "mechanics force you to kill another PC" games in general, but I can see the appeal in certain circumstances.

It's not that scary: player will lose his items(another character can interact with fallen detective and take his possessions) and upgrades to his character and will select new detective.

Super-quick char-gen does help reduce attachment.

(Great Ork Gods is awesome with that; Paranoia mitigates its chargen process by giving you a sixpack of whoever you roll up.)

Plus, it's one-session tabletop game, not the serious rpg experience. You don't make your own PCs, don't put effort and soul into this. So, in the end, it's pretty cheap (in compare to dnd, for example) to lose your character.

That's the way to do it!

Anyway, if someone looking for some fun tabletop game, apart from rpgs, and wishes for cooperative experience, rather than competitive: I would recommend Eldritch Horror. Everyone from our dnd group were satisfied and we didn't regret that we spent so much time with this game that our dnd session was postponed.

[takes notes]

@RollingFeles This reminds me of how much I need to try a game of Death or Glory.

VTC super broad old question

My group is slowly expanding into board games just a little bit.

@Miniman found Death or Glory description. Sounds fun!

@doppelgreener RPGs improved my ability to be superstitious about rolling dice and completely disregard the laws of probability.

@RollingFeles Yeah, I really want to give it a go. But the usual problem applies - I want to try it as a player, but to introduce it to a group I'd have to run it.

Try to engage some of the players into beatiful world of GMing : )

Our GM encouraged me to run the game and played as one of the players. It was very fun.

@RollingFeles Oh, I don't have a GM shortage. But it's a bit unreasonable to say to someone "I want to try this new system, so can you please run it for me? kthxbai"

The right process is probably to run it for a group and hope someone likes it enough to want to run it.

@Miniman I think it's pretty reasonable to offer your group to try this and maybe someone will volunteer to run it. :) I don't see your obligation to run it, if everyone is interested. On other hand, if their position is like "weeell, maaaybe it would be fun and if you're so eager to play it, then we may try", than I think you have to follow your just suggested plan.

Still, different groups: different people. Our miliage will vary and my advice may be unappropriate and could be considered rude in your social environment.

John H. Kim's essays and links on RPG theory and system design.

Not exactly modern (looks to last be updated about three/four years ago) but very interesting stuff.

Speaking of running the game. My first session(one-shot mission) was in our GMs world. And now I'm working on my own, to make a whole campaign. I want to print an old-style map on canvas-like material wrap it in parchment or make some tube for it and make a wax seal with signet from my world. In the game, at one moment, their characters will acquire this maps.

His list of free RPGs is also somewhat out of date, but still awesome.

@RollingFeles Cool.

I suppose most of the sessions would be online and so I would be unable to give them this right away and that's why maps would be sealed: I will give my players them beforehand and will ask them to break seals at the right moment.

I've used props a lot in the past.

I love little details: they give some special flavour for immersion.

@BESW can you share some examples?

For inspiration ? :)

I mention a few in the answer, like a big silver key and Frankenletter.

For my first campaign, I was basing it on a setting from a set of novels with diegetic material, so I got a very old, battered copy of the book and ripped the relephant pages out to use as props.

For several years I'd make a map of the setting for each new campaign.

My favourite prop over the years has been documents. Letters, mostly.

They're a great way to pack a lot of information into a small object: not just the meaning of the text, but the character of the writer and recipient and their relationship, and the state of the letter itself can tell you things.

Thank you!

Olo!

Hey, @BESW, care to continue what you were telling me about the way @Shalvenay runs Fate?

Could you give me an example scenario?

Probably best to let him tell it; I only know about his play third-hand.

Well.

He will see that I tagged him when he comes around.

@Shalvenay THOU ART TAGED.

Ask Lovecraft explains Magic: the Gathering.

@BESW I am amused and satisfied by the accuracy.

yes

the "accuracy"

He's not wrong.

well, but the cards he used were hilarious

and they were not, strictly speaking, accurate

@trogdor there were all the requisite colours and lands and spells and horrible creatures! i fail to see the problem

@doppelgreener no, the colors were definitely wrong

I find no fault with the rest of your statement XD

What, Finland isn't white?

(black / blue / green / red / white, respectively)

ah ok

I stand corrected

that bit was not as immediately obvious to me as everything else

to be perfectly fair, he was throwing the cards out pretty fast

It is probably possible to play like this.

Advanced Supersonic Aluminum Nazi Hell Creatures from Below Hollow Earth:

@trogdor yeah, it took me a bit to realise what was going on, but when I saw the Blue dude's face was blue and the black card had the men in black, I started to catch on and went "oooohhhh."

Hillary Clinton:

"Gives +2 to any attempt to control Bill Clinton, Congressional Wives or Democrats. +6 to take direct control of any of these groups."

I honestly expected more.

Hnng. I need The Witness so bad. But it's not on any platform I have ready access to.

that's how i felt about the persona games

well, sorta, because i'm awful at completing RPGs.

The Witness is basically "Myst re-envisioned as a 21st century indie navel-gazer."

lol

of course you need that XD

It looks to be a fascinating study in ludonarrative, and the language of forms and actions.

Rather than the puzzles combining to tell a story, like in the Myst franchise, apparently they combine to reify concepts about the nature of things.

Naaaaaaaants ingonyama bagithi baba

sunrise over RPG chat

@BESW stands on an outcrop of rock, walking towards the ledge

Behind him, a maned @doppelgreener and @trogdor look out with pride

"Everything in the star bar is yours, my son."

All the lurkers bow down in front of the rock as @BESW raises @Eimyr into the air for them all to see

uh wait a second

The ciiiiiiiiiiircle of liiiife

does this make me the king or the queen?

Well, as you don't have the mane, I think that makes you the receiver

and why Is Eimyr my son?

XD

ah

I was not thinking on that one XD

Eimyr gets to be Simba because he's the most chatty but least experienced of the famous four

I get to be Pumba

On account of frequent visits to the vending machine

OH! My players were asking me last night if we can run a pokemon RPG

Any of you guys have experience with that?

I am just saying, in this interpretation, I want to be Tina Turner.

@BESW, The Witness is great, but I missed the plot a lot.

Also, I am color blind.

And that game does NOT like that.

I think it's less a plot and more an experience. And yeah, I'd hoped they'd thought of ways to compensate for folks with that sort of thing.

That said, I've never enjoyed being punished so much in my life.

Heheh.

A quick Google tells me all the puzzles which require colour or hearing to solve are optional.

Kinda.

The game is weird.

@Polyducks Pokerole is a nice system

Are you deaf also?

I cannot tell you more without spoiling some of it.

So I will just remain silent.

oh okay

mute too!

@Polyducks, no, but the sound puzzles are HARD>

They are by far the hardest ones I had to solve there.

And I am colorblind and there is a whole section designed to make me regret being born this way.

From there, you take.

Besides that, it is a very pretentious game. But after some point you just have to ask yourself whether Jonathan Blow has the right to be pretentious, you know?

He sounds like an ass on interviews and forums, but he is also undoubtedly a very good designer.

So maybe he has the right to be an ass.

And think he is better than everyone.

He kinda is.

Now it is time to go to sleep.

@BESW, try to play it on your PC, it doesn't need much to run.

Nighty night everyone.

I'll have to re-locate the media tower from the living room to my office/room; it's the only PC I have access to.

It will be worth it.

BELIEVE

@Ahriman Thanks, I'll look into that one! I want something basic, but obviously combat needs to be good and involved.

I'm a little curious why I haven't seen any Mad Max memes about it yet.

@Althis which game is this?

it's an easy system & has almost all pokemon (I think, I tend to focus on teh first 151)

@Polyducks The Witness.

....Blow says that he couldn't figure out how to make all the puzzles work for the colourblind, so he made sure they were minimal and skippable, and that in order to acknowledge the colourblind he tried to create a puzzle only they could solve, but "we were not able to engineer it because colorblindness is a very individual thing."

it apparently is

wat

wat is happen

lol

hello son? XD

lmao

famous four?

sorry, couldn't help it

mane?

Lion King, @Eimyr

I have no idea, honestly

I shiver to think what was that red liquid smeared on my forehead

@Polyducks well yeah but,....

it still came out of nowhere XD

Kensington Gore, most like.

@Polyducks so who's the famous four and why?

Normally I would assume it's B, E, S and W, buuutttt...

lol

Brogdor?

haha

It's trogdor, but the bro form

ah

Or the burninate form.

aaaahhhh

now that seems entirely acceptable XD

@trogdor It would make you the king, for two reasons. One, your avatar is much more maned. Two, we already established that @doppelgreener's internet persona is female.

@Althis you should check out enchroma lenses - unless you're 100% color blind

@eimyr well, technically my current picture is female, not that most people would know/care or that it matters very much XD

but I can see your point to some extent at least

@BESW get a gamepad and play in the lounge room!

@Polyducks who do you nominate as Timon?

@Polyducks or Scar?

@eimyr I'm down for trogdor being the mane lion (har)

I can do a great evil villain manic laugh

so I guess it's fitting

Brilliant!

Had to stop doing it because it would cause dd to start crying like there's no tomorrow

@doppelgreener ha,.....ha,........ ha

@Ahriman gets Scar

Really @Eimyr should be Timone so we can hang out

Weird. Youtube just played a Greek advert

Bah, I don't have enough RAM on this PC.

updated my profile

[pat pats BESW]

Would you like a hot beverage (after sunset)?

mmm, spicy hot chocolate does sound nice.

I'll come make it

If I'm ever in Guam

...and now my wireless mouse is fritzing out. [sigh]

@BESW just make another out of bamboo and coconuts?

Isn't that what you guys do on tropical islands?

@Polyducks he needs their traditional Chamorro matter rematerializers and fusion stabilisers for that. They're booked out until next week.

Oh yes. While wearing grass skirts and drinking orange soda.

@BESW You mean coconut milk, right?

→ 3 messages moved to Trash

You could just have pretended it was on purpose.

@Miniman Put Joe vs the Volcano on your must-watch list.

@BESW orange soda is a thing!

@BESW When you go into the jungle and buy supplies, if you look American your guide will invariably purchase an industrial packet of non-carbonated orange flavouring powder, Tango or something of the like, to enable your body to absorb all the water from your drinks. If you don't look USAish you will instead get anything cheaper in your water, orange not guaranteed.

Source: traveller TV shows about exploring the Amazon

@Polyducks who is cast as the annoying bird character?

[looks up if his eeeBox can easily upgrade its RAM]

@Ahriman Did you manage to solve your selfie issue with the group?

@eimyr eh?

Lasombra's mirror problem and cameras

did you reach a conclusion with your group?

I was wondering if you needed to retcon stuff

[sigh] This computer is so disappointing.

(BTW Every time I look at your profile I must remind myself you're not Brazilian. Every. Single. Time. No idea why.)

Given that its graphics card appears to also be on the way out, I should probably bite the bullet and replace the whole thing, but I really despise computer shopping.

we still need to have that discussion

@BESW Why do you not enjoy it like a proper IT geek?

Because I'm not an IT geek?

I'm an artist with a sideline in lit/comp.

I've recently helped choose 2 laptops if that's of any help.

(meaning, I'm reasonably up to date)

They were all in budget range, which may or may not be what you're interested in

@BESW I can assist. Give me a budget and viable stores and I'll see what I can build for whatever your needs are.

I'm interested in a budget media computer: mostly Skype and Netflix sorts of things, but also moderate gaming. A slim profile is ideal but not necessary. Ventilation may be minimal.

The Witness is probably most resource-intensive game I've wanted to play on this.

@BESW PC or laptop?

Stores... are a problem. Amazon generally refuses to ship to us.

Desktop running windows. We've got a TV and speakers to hook it up to, and a wireless mouse and keyboard.

@BESW I would assume you would prefer an already assembled one?

It sits in my entertainment centre and does entertaining.

I haven't done computer assembly since 200...2?

Usually I just buy locally, which limits my options and is why I have an Asus eeeBox PC 1033.

Budget-wise, I have no idea what a decent thing would go for.

I would say... 500£, or 600$ would be a good price to start.

But that's as ballpark as it gets

Darn newfangled computers... I can't even get this thing open.

....huh. Hardly any dust or lint.

Okay, so it's only got one RAM slot.

Would anyone happen to know of an image or source which demonstrates DC's tendency to have all male heroes' bodies look just about identical and/or all female heroes' bodies?

@doppelgreener A bunch of the comics :P