TRPG General Chat

BESW

12:00 AM

I also used Stalker0's Alternate Core Skill Challenge System to good effect.

My profile page has some other 4e-specific (and generally useful) links.

BESW

12:59 AM

→ 59 messages moved to BESW's Spoil-Lair

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle thanks for your comment I totally did not write what I meant and you comment helped point it out

@Zachiel player, optimizer, GM, rules lawyer... I'm a 4e Renaissance man.

@petex the Angry DM also has some great articles about skill challenges, monster design, and the role of the DM/GM in 4e angrydm.com

petex

i will check it out,

i am new to D/GM'ing, so i am not having a solid foundation in the rules,

for monsters i use the dnd.insider website, but i usually modify them strongly, to get some different dynamics..

i throw in some self made items once in a while and see what happens

when there are issues i DM rule it, and look things up after the game so i know what to do next time

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:24 AM

@petex since you have insider theres a supersweet tool called monster builder. gives you the appropriate xp for the monster really helps with choices etc.

Lord_Gareth

@DuckTapeal Taste the fury of getting your question answered.

BESW

Sounds like you're doing a good job. You're self-aware, you reflect on your experiences and try to learn from them, and you have the group's fun as a primary objective.

Lord_Gareth

@BESW Remember the fun thing. It can be easy to forget. Do not forget it.

petex

@JoshuaAslanSmith i actually never tried that, will give it a try for next game

DuckTapeal

@Lord_Gareth TASTE THE FURY OF HAVING YOUR ANSWER UPVOTED.

Lord_Gareth

1:29 AM

@DuckTapeal SWEET ASMODEUS MY ONLY WEAKNESS

DuckTapeal

FEEL THE HEAT OF MY MODERATE APPROVAL.

4

BESW

@Lord_Gareth I learned the priorities from teaching and working with youth, but they apply to RPGs too.

Apr 19 '13 at 12:05, by BESW

Which brings me to my regular mantra: "There is no right or wrong way to play an RPG so long as everyone involved is happy and safe."

3

Priority one: Is everyone safe?
Priority two: Is everyone reasonably happy?
Only after that is it important to start even *considering* other priorities.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@ducktapeal @lord_gareth what the hell are you guys talking about

Lord_Gareth

@BESW I learned it the hard way, from a long string of terrible gamemasters who were hostile, entitled, holier-than-thou, insane, or obsessed. Eventually I decided that maybe I should try putting fun before any other interests.

2

A: Can the Oracle Mystery Brain Drain be used to gather surface thoughts?

It's for Interaction purposes. So, our ability here reads thusly: Brain Drain (Su): You can take a standard action to violently probe the mind of a single intelligent enemy within 100 feet. The target receives a Will save to negate the effect and immediately knows the source of this harmful ...

DuckTapeal

He answered my question, and I upvoted it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:32 AM

I agree but I come at it from the opposite perspective of being a GM for a game where my players didnt respect the time that the GM puts in

Lord_Gareth

I stopped putting in the time. Players never noticed. Have improv'd ever since. It's not for everyone.

It probably helps that I despise my players as human beings.

Joshua Aslan Smith

thats why im so quick to be like A GM NEEDS FUN AS WELL like that question for rogue trader about the gm needing a tool to do all the battle math because he was doing all of it himself

BESW

Yes. "Everyone" should include everyone.

Joshua Aslan Smith

problem is my players knew when I didnt prepare, and complained about me using mods either from dragon mag or other sources

but when I tried to do a completely custom dark world campaign only 1 player bothered to crack the source book

Lord_Gareth

[Edits a new sentence into his answer like a boss]

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:35 AM

I really had to resist just letting them die in the desert from failed endurance rolls/letting them get in a fight with some templars due to their lack or preparation for the setting.

Lord_Gareth

@JoshuaAslanSmith I think you underestimate what I mean by improv

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Lord_Gareth I dont

@lord_gareth was this 4e?

at the very least you need monsters of the appropriate level range and xp budget sitting around even if you improv everything else

DuckTapeal

Fun fact that is applicable to all game design, including GMing: In general, players feel entitled. They want an awesome, huge world with tons of content, but they don't necessarily appreciate what that huge amount of content means for the designer.

Lord_Gareth

@JoshuaAslanSmith 3.5. Which, contrary to what Myx and SSD seem to think, does not make good mechanical improv easier.

DuckTapeal

But I'm not bitter.

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:36 AM

haha I am toats a bitter gm

Lord_Gareth

Heh.

Joshua Aslan Smith

everyone is like, we never play anymore, my response, YOU gm a campaign

silence answers

crickets chirp

Lord_Gareth

Hey @BESW, am I bitter? [/snide question] [/beating dead horse] [/BESW has to listen to him constantly]

Joshua Aslan Smith

1 of my friend did gm for a different system and did help GM for encounters and that totally improved him as a player but he was the 1 person that read the source book for dark sun so my most problematic players remained my most problematic

I think its also this huge problem where I want to tell sort of serious stories and I think 4e can handle that, its just that my players cant

they want their games to be munchkin and D&D tropes (they were tainted despite never playing a pen and paper before 4e simply by popular culture)

Lord_Gareth

@JoshuaAslanSmith What methods have you tried to get them interested in serious stories?

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:39 AM

tried to gm a series arc? I dont know I mean the GM i took over the table from had the same problems

I think part and parcel is that serious roleplay like serious acting takes lots more chutzpa whereas when its funny you can always play it off

Lord_Gareth

@JoshuaAslanSmith One moment. @BESW, can you do that chat search thing you do? I need @JoshuaAslanSmith to comprehend exactly how much I despise my players before I suggest solutions to him.

Joshua Aslan Smith

Like im always the 1 serious player at any of the tables I play at, everyone else is like Im Cockblock the dwarven fighter

and I come there with a character concept about being a knight who failed in his duty and now travels around seeking to attain redemption by helping others

so now its to the point for something like encounters where I dont roleplay at all, I literally create characters based on comic book characters

bruce wayne the avenger

wolverine the two weapon fighter or ranger

BESW

@Lord_Gareth Like this?

Joshua Aslan Smith

iron man the warforged sorceror

DuckTapeal

That's more of a group culture thing than a reflection on your GMing style. Some people really like silly, light, combat games.

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:43 AM

what is CE?

Lord_Gareth

@BESW - Ah, danke. Joshua, do peruse the Hate Archives there for a minute.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@dicktapeal oh I know, its frustrating is all. Like I wish I and @besw could be in the same time zone (or nearer at least) so that we could get some serious narrative roleplay goin down

Lord_Gareth

@JoshuaAslanSmith Oh, ah, in that context 'players' refers to political players within the setting and not human beings at the table

Ignore that one.

BESW

Mmm. Sometimes you've just gotta realise that your favourite play style isn't something the rest of the group is going to buy into. And then figure out if there's a play style everyone can enjoy even if it's not your favourite, or if you need to find another group so you aren't dragging them down (and vice versa).

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw oh I know I just stopped doing serious because I got the hint right away, if we ever did same page tool it would probably be somthing like munchkin the pen and paper rpg

my problem is that in general, in life I find it hard to meet people who are into serious drama in the same way I am in different mediums

I fit into too many outlier groups in too many areas to find like minded people for my hobbies most of the time

which is probably true for all of us hence why we sink hours a day into rpg.se

at some level rpg.se assuages our desires and needs for RPG related issues that isn't being met elsewhere.

/endscene

BESW

3:40 AM

[sigh] Client calls on Good Friday, needs a pair of 5'x2' photos printed and framed for Monday.

[calls in favours]

BESW

6:21 AM

Okay, the printer should have the photos done tomorrow before noon and the framers are building the box frame already so the glue can dry while we wait for the print to mount.

Seriously though, Easter weekend? On this island?

Metool

Damn, man.

BESW

I can't even pay my health insurance on Good Friday.

BESW

7:07 AM

in Mos Eisley, 13 hours ago, by lisardggY

@SQB The mere thought of yiddish cyberpunk makes me giggle like a schoolgirl.

doppelgreener

9:04 AM

@BESW Tomorrow I'm running a Fate one-shot.

And behold the kind of answer I write when I am slightly tipsy.

0

A: What are the Pros and Cons of the rules-as-written tag?

It's useless. Our community finds it useless. It doesn't have pros or cons worth going into apart from this one. Nobody seems to care much about this tag or its use beyond arguing about whether it should exist and in what form. It's not useful for searching or filtering, and evidently nobody car...

I wonder what I will think of it later, but for now I think I'm hitting the mark with the kind of thing I want to say.

Zachiel

10:35 AM

@KRyan I've been reading your how to beat a tarrasque. When the wizard makes a knowledge roll to know details about allips, isn't the DM who should choose which extra information the character gets?

BESW

"Flanking with tiny creatures" brings to mind a guy holding a fairy in each fist and boxing someone's ears with them.

lisardggY

@BESW And then you release the fairies so they can fly in circles, cartoon-style, over the guy's head.

Zachiel

10:57 AM

@waxeagle @BESW and also @petex (because why not?). I know at least some of you to be familiar with The Rules Of Hidden Club, where it says "An enemy can spend a Minor Action to roll Perception". A guy I know who's DMing 4e tells me the manual says that actively using perception is a standard action. Was there some errata? Is it a PC/NPC difference? Should this question hit the main site?

petex

it goez to the main site and i goes to the shower and workies then

in an encounter i would do it a minor, without knowing rules yet

wax eagle

@Zachiel Lemmie look

Perception is definitely a minor. I'll check the PHB to see if it was eratta'd

ok, my PHB isn't handy, can you quote the RC?

p 150 there

Zachiel

Let me check

wax eagle

11:13 AM

its p186 of the PHB to check the original rules

Zachiel

Ok, this is PHB: no action required — either you notice something or you don't. Your DM usually uses your passive perception check result. If you want to use the skill actively, you need to take a standard action or spend 1 minute listening or searching, depending on the task.

wax eagle

wowsers

yeah no, that's been eratta'd

Zachiel

so at least it isn't a translation error

wax eagle

you'd never find anything that was hidden in combat that way

Zachiel

"I use my standard... spot him and then do nothing."

"Ok, then I hide again."

wax eagle

11:14 AM

next turn he's hidden again, yeah

Zachiel

You'd need someone to actively spot and point the position to AoE casters

wax eagle

it was listed again in PHB2 I think they did a big stealth/perception cleanup there, but I'm not 100% sure

cuz the first version of hidden/stealth/perception didn't actually function

Zachiel

I asked/answered the question on the main site anyway. For posterity.

And because one more link to the rules of hidden club can't possibly harm anyone.

BESW

blarrrgh. Thai food + big mug of Abuelita-brand hot chocolate = bloat.

(I was going to make pizza rolls for dinner, but the pipe into our condo's water tank got turned off earlier today and it finally ran out just as we were starting to cook. So we got take-out.)

Zachiel

11:31 AM

ugh, a water tank

whick kinda means you have rationed water?

BESW

Not really, it's connected directly to the main line.

It's just a reservoir for treating the water and building up pressure so it can get to the third floor of the apartment.

But the pump was sucking air most of the afternoon.

Zachiel

Got it.

BESW

The valve is back on, the tank's filling up again, but the sludge at the bottom got stirred up so our water's muddy for a while.

Earlier today Hobbs helped me crack through the wall on making NPCs for my campaign setting.

For example, I've got a bar owner/tender based on Peter Lorre's roles in Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon, but with a secret twist.

Zachiel

Which wall? Was there a wall? Why was there a wall? I did not know about any wall.

BESW

Yeah, I was hitting a kind of writer's block on it.

Zachiel

11:43 AM

J. Hobbs, thought chiropractor

BESW

Hobbs and I have a lot of experience brainstorming campaigns together.

Zachiel

That's nice

...aaaaand, off for cooking

BESW

Another NPC I enjoy, but still need to find a voice for, is a man whose profession is knowing useful people and helping them get in touch with each other.

He looks like Alexander Dumas.

Zachiel

...wait, you mean elf Alexander Dumas?

BESW

Yes.

Zachiel

11:47 AM

You know what we said about elves yesterday? I'd like to add "graceful and slim"

BESW

Heheh.

I shall add a cultural preference for graceful performing arts.

Zachiel

<-- Leilani readily agrees and claps her hands togheter in approvation

BESW

But elves have just as much physical variety as humans do.

Zachiel

like, you know, seals do

That was referred to the clapping of hands, not to the physical variety of seals.

BESW

12:04 PM

Welp, tomorrow I'm ferrying 20 square feet of canvas around, so I'm going to bed early.

G'night.

Zachiel

12:19 PM

Joshua Aslan Smith

12:54 PM

lol i dig the new chatroom

statblock forge

@JonathanHobbs almost impossible to not read your posts in Space Ghost Coast to Coast voice

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:01 PM

@waxeagle @besw thought on me reverting an edit to add a tag back?

The Oracle

2:14 PM

0

Q: Tags: verisimilitude vs. realism

1 question has both verisimilitude and realism, and for each of these tags there's 1 more question with only that one without the other. To me, both of these tags actually look like "internal-consistency", so we could rename both of them, in order to prevent someone to think incorrectly they ins...

Phorden

Hello everyone.

lisardggY

Hello.

user61230

3:11 PM

It's hard to be active on this site when there are so few questions I can reasonably answer :/

user61230

I love it to death, but... well. I've ignored the tags which I can't answer, and then hidden those questions. There are now 18% as many questions on the front page.

lisardggY

I feel your pain. Even though I play Pathfinder, I've mostly given up on answering PF questions since there are people here with a much more impressive command of the system.

user61230

Yeah.

lisardggY

But the more interesting questions to me are the system agnostic ones.

user61230

That's fair, and I definitely agree. Game theory++.

user61230

3:14 PM

But every time I find an interesting one, it's already been answered :P

lisardggY

There was a question about a week ago that I hesitated to answer - it was a Pathfinder question, and already had several answers. But I decided to answer anyway, despite being less rules-savvy then others, because I still had a different aspect to contribute.

And it ended up being upvoted and accepted, so I'm glad I did. You can contribute even in the face of outstanding excellence in others. :)

user61230

Hmm... that's fair. I guess I'll have to stick around and hunt!

Joshua Aslan Smith

@lisardggy random question since youre the only reppped up user in chat right now

user61230

I do love the site, anyway. I'll hopefully be spending more time with it in the future.

DuckTapeal

It's also sometimes helpful to dive into the archive, and find interesting questions there. It's totally valid to answer a year old question, if you think you have something to add.

Joshua Aslan Smith

3:18 PM

is it wrong for me to revert an edit when someone removed a tag on a question that I added because I disagree

lisardggY

@JoshuaAslanSmith I've amassed a nice little pile of rep, yes, but I'd hardly say I'm a high-rep user on the site.

@DuckTapeal Totally. And you can even get cool badges for that.

Joshua Aslan Smith

your on the first 3 pages with that rep I believe

DuckTapeal

What am I, chopped liver? :)

user61230

@Joshua Yeah, if you don't think the other user's edit was correct, you are at leisure to revert it. However, if they're an experienced user, you might consider asking them why they chose to make the edit.

user61230

@DuckTapeal Chopped liver is fun!

Joshua Aslan Smith

3:19 PM

oh they said why

I just disagree

DuckTapeal

If it's your question, then it's always your choice as to what tags you put on it.

user61230

Hmm... where was it?

DuckTapeal

Same thing happened to me the other day.

lisardggY

@JoshuaAslanSmith Around the bottom of the second page, it seems. I consider myself mid-rep. :)

Joshua Aslan Smith

how do I see the edit history, totally forget

user61230

3:20 PM

@Duck Though I definitely agree - digging through old questions is fun, and I think I came across one that I actually answered once. I haven't done that in a while, though.

Joshua Aslan Smith

oh its not mine

its a disagreement over a new user's question

DuckTapeal

What question?

Joshua Aslan Smith

sorry

7

Q: When should a GM roll behind the GM Screen?

I was wondering what is the point to roll behind a screen as a GM? If nobody can see the roll then I could claim that i rolled any number I require, right? If I would have to show the roll, then why would I roll behind the screen in the first place. I do like the idea that nobody hides the rol...

gm-techniques new-gm

there

lisardggY

@JoshuaAslanSmith Click on the "Edited 15 hours ago" link.

user61230

Hmm... why do you disagree with the removal of the dnd-4e tag?

user61230

3:23 PM

(I assume that's the tag you mean, yeah?)

Joshua Aslan Smith

because the user petex, said it was specifically about 4e in the chat yesterday

and because the right answer to this question depends on the system otherwise its just a list of ways to do it by various systems

DuckTapeal

You might want to add a comment to the question saying that petex said it was about 4e, and that different systems treat secret rolls differently, so the system matters for this one.

lisardggY

@DuckTapeal I agree. Without the chat-only context, I would remove the tag as well.

user61230

...huh. You actually have a good point on this one.

user61230

10

Q: Voting Feedback totally screwed up compared to other SE sites

When I visit SO or Workplace.SE, I see the voting as a feedback what to improve. I can see that when I put work into my post and have knowledge on the subject I get positive votes, when I make mistakes or are hasty, I get negative votes. Workplace.SE, as a more adult-oriented site has way better ...

discussion voting quality

DuckTapeal

3:25 PM

Personally, I don't think a system agnostic answer to that would be bad, but I can see your point.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I already did

sys agnostic becomes a list because hes not asking for a fix for a specific problem

user61230

Historically, this site accepts these questions both cast as system-agnostic and system-dependent. As it was unclear which the user wanted, and the text didn't imply a particular system, the users went with the system-agnostic approach.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I guess we'll see if the mods shut me down on it or let it lie

user61230

I don't disagree with you, but I think it's a little late to change it now.

DuckTapeal

Once you've re-added it like this, if it gets removed again, ask a question about it in meta.

lisardggY

3:28 PM

I would have the text explicitly state the system he's playing. As it is, it feels like the tag is tacked on. Having comments clear up the system isn't clear at all.

DuckTapeal

@lisardggY Very true.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@DuckTapeal Exactly my plan.

lisardggY

Also, it feels like the OP really doesn't want a 4e-only answer. You might feel that a system-agnostic question is listish and thus closeworthy, but it feels like you're changing the OP's intent when you retag it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@lisardggY good point ill edit I'm a new gm playing 4e into the question

might wait on the edit see how it shakes out

I feel like if I edited "I play 4e" into the question it could cause a lot of issues

DuckTapeal

If you feel like the question he's asking is listish, then you might consider voting to close as too broad.

Joshua Aslan Smith

3:40 PM

here's my conundrum he's new, he expressed concerns in chat about how to post a question, myself and besw were working with him on it

I have the edit power to add a tag

I felt it was natural

chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/11/2014/4/17/22-24 heres the relevant chat logs

id rather help him fix his question before voting to close it

DuckTapeal

He also specifically commented saying that he wasn't concerned with just 4e answers.

And I'm not convinced that making this system-agnostic would actually turn this into a list question, based on the answers that have been given so far.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I will vote to close if it gets undone

SE is about expert answers to real problems, if he just wistfully wants to know how every rpg system handles hidden rolls then its a bad question

DuckTapeal

Except Opa gave a perfectly valid answer that is system-agnostic. Your answer is also mostly system agnostic.

Other than the part about monster recharge rolls, all the stuff you say applies to any fantasy rpg.

Just because it's possible to answer a question with a list, doesn't mean that the question is invalid. In this case, it's perfectly possible to answer that question generally.

Joshua Aslan Smith

So I dont feel that the question meets this if its not system tagged rpg.stackexchange.com/help/dont-ask

due to the way he worded the question it either needs a system tag or it need to be closed

DuckTapeal

What part of that page do you think this question violates? Like, what line, specifically?

Joshua Aslan Smith

3:48 PM

@ducktapeal Except when you say "fantasy rpg" I really read it as d20 and d20 inspired systems. That question when answered using fate has a completely different answer

"You should only ask practical, answerable questions based on actual problems that you face. Chatty, open-ended questions diminish the usefulness of our site and push other questions off the front page."

"every answer is equally valid: “What’s your favorite ______?”"

DuckTapeal

The reason I feel like the question is just fine as it is, is that every answer (system agnostic or not) has basically said the same thing. No one has tried to give a list of how every system deals with secret rolls.

Everyone is saying "Roll behind the screen to keep information secret from your players, when it would be appropriate to do so."

Joshua Aslan Smith

you can disagree about the list issue, but every answer is equally valid is a problem

because its true about this question if its not asking about a specific system

DuckTapeal

By that argument, every system agnostic question would be invalid, since you could just answer the question in any system, and have the answer be valid.

lisardggY

@JoshuaAslanSmith I disagree. "system agnostic" means that answers are universal, like "because you want to keep statistics of enemies secret", or "for opposed rolls". That doesn't make them equally valid, only equally applicable to (many) games.

DuckTapeal

An answer that only worked on one system would probably be valid, but wouldn't be complete, and likely wouldn't get as many upvotes or be accepted.

DuckTapeal

4:29 PM

So, can we look forward to a meta question about this, @JoshuaAslanSmith?

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:34 PM

@ducktapeal eventually. not right now busy at work and frustrated by this so need some breathing space.

Zachiel

5:53 PM

Good, looks like the Tarrasque is eating my character's body tonight.

@Lord_Gareth, you're good at this sort of things.

> Triggers for contingent spells are usually events that
happen to the bearer of the spell, and can include [list follows]

Am I right saying that neither "usually" nor "can" actually tell me if the list is exhaustive or not?

(afk now, will read later)

DuckTapeal

Possibly related: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/27901/…

Lord_Gareth

6:26 PM

@Zachiel - Common consensus on GitP/Min-Max is that the list is not exhaustive. Word-triggers, for example, get used a lot

Zachiel

6:39 PM

@Lord_Gareth I wonder if I can stick a word-trigger between the action that causes a readied action ti set off and the action itself.

Lord_Gareth

@Zachiel Again, in English this time.

Zachiel

I ready a ranged attack. The condition is "whenever that enemy (who is now a long distance from me) gets at exactly this distance". Then I pass, enemy's turn. He comes closer and I get to do the readied action. Can I say "now" and activate the triggered true strike before the actual attack takes place, so to benefit from the attack bonus?

Zachiel

6:56 PM

@Lord_Gareth afk now, I'm pinging just to let you see the new wording of the question when you login again.

DuckTapeal

Woo! Ding 6000.

The Oracle

8:44 PM

0

Q: Is it possible for us to the refine [gm-techniques]?

While going through some of the gm questions (which I've previously taken issue with), I've noticed that we tend to have a catch-all tag for gamemastery questions: gm-techniques. In my efforts to clean up the gm tag, it's come to my attention that really all I'm doing is, for the most part, retag...

discussion tags

user61230

9:31 PM

What if you're all secretly elves roleplaying humans because we lead more interesting lives?

BESW

10:08 PM

@Emracool [wave]

user61230

[WAVE]

user61230

How goes!

BESW

Been keeping busy. Not a lot of gaming IRL, though.

Yerself?

user61230

Much of the same! Life has been a time-consuming procedure as of late.

user61230

Though it's about to become more interesting! So we'll see!

user61230

10:14 PM

Finally figured out what I'm doing wrong in this dern Fate thing

BESW

Ooer?

user61230

I guess what it comes down to is that I need to be a bit more supportive of the players as a whole? In the sense that I've been trying to pass off too much descriptive control to the players when they clearly don't want it.

user61230

Or, since a lot of them are new, aren't necessarily prepared to handle it properly. Which, of course, causes things to stray from the path a bit.

BESW

Ah, that's a balancing point I've been struggling with myself.

user61230

Hmm, how so?

BESW

10:17 PM

I got so excited about the ability of Fate to spread the GMing power among the players that I pushed too hard for my player to use those powers.

Turns out he generally prefers playing in my worlds, and will speak up about adding things when he wants.

user61230

That makes a lot of sense. Maybe the table culture Fate's going for is still controlled by the GM, but instead simply makes itself open to players' ideas.

BESW

(Part of it was that I was kinda burned out after two years of running 4e every week.)

@Emracool Like many things about Fate, it's very flexible and can be bent and stretched pretty far before it snaps. So there's room for a great many approaches to the GM/player creative dynamic.

user61230

That's true. What surprises me is that I actually think I was past that point.

user61230

If the mettle of an RPG is an alloy, then new players weaken the alloy through inexperience. It will still work, under careful conditions, but becomes far less flexible than it would be under experienced hands.

BESW

mettle; metal

user61230

10:26 PM

Oh, I meant mettle. :P I didn't realize it was a pun, though! So, literally no pun intended?

BESW

Yey!

Interestingly, I've found that players brand-new to the RPG experience are more likely to feel free to contribute to the world-building.

It's only after they've been firmly told that the world is already built and their contributions are wrong that they clam up and start asking before making any kind of contribution at all, including about their own character.

user61230

Creativity is astonishingly touchy. I've noticed that too.

BESW

List of Victorian professions held by women.

user61230

That's an interesting list. Not too much there surprises me, but it's still interesting to see just how disproportionate it was(/is).

BESW

It floated into my twitter feed attached to this:

This has been your biannual reminder that there are professions for Victorian women that aren't 'prostititue!' or 'lady!', fiction writers

Tweeted by sydneypadua on April 18, 2014 at 6:39 PM

user61230

10:34 PM

Oh, Tropes.

BESW

For me, it's largely just a cool list of professions I might not otherwise think of.

Lapidary, for example.

user61230

That's true. But the list also does imply that if you select a random Victorian-era woman off the street, they are overwhelmingly likely to be a servant, a miller/dressmaker, in cotton manufacturing, bathing, or a teacher.

BESW

Indeed.

user61230

But yeah, it's a cool list of professions. "Random person in the town? They're uh... a fireworks journey(wo)man.'

user61230

Unfortunately, I must depart, as we are preparing for a competition next week! I'll be back later, though. Seeya!

BESW

10:38 PM

I'm hoping to make my setting (which started off mostly inspired by early 1800s Persia but is developing a lot of Victorian quirks as I go) more gender-equal.

@Emracool ttfn

BESW

11:30 PM

Today's Weird Wiki Talk page is an argument about whether the 1931 Maltese Falcon film is inherently superior to the more critically acclaimed 1941 version.

It seems largely predicated on adherence to the novel and enforced obscurity.

Transcript for