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00:00 - 11:0011:00 - 00:00

12:00 AM
@Avery I should be ok in that respect for now. Also, that place is in walking distance
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek 'for now'? :(
 
@Bob I find trying to predict things long range never works
I'll deal with today, and maybe the next day
or better yet, it won't be an issue at all
 
Bob
12:19 AM
@JourneymanGeek that does sound preferable, yes
 
In which case I wouldn't be ok, I'd be all "Heh, I survived that s***. I can survive anything
 
Bob
and now for something completely different
 
Bob
12:58 AM
hm
helping coworker spec out a new pc :P
 
1:15 AM
always fun
 
Bob
au.pcpartpicker.com/list/rVGfgL <== this is his current pick. anyone have an opinion? :P
I've already suggested swithing to a Samsung EVO SSD. He wants some 1080p (possible upgrade to 1440p) FPS gaming. Otherwise fairly standard long-life build.
 
1:44 AM
@Bob If it's gaming, step up to the 1600X. The extra 400 MHz are worth the extra US$30.
(not sure what it is in Australia)
...and yes, the SanDisk SSD PLUS is crap. TweakTown's review is scathing.
Try the Samsung SSD 750 EVO instead? It's probably the best of the cheap planar TLC NAND SSDs.
> Even while filling the SSD Plus and Z410 with sequential writes the drives would drop to as low as 40MB/s, which is something we've never seen before.
Sep 1 '16 at 1:29, by bwDraco
> The SSD Plus and Z410 would drop to as low as 30 IOPS with an average response time of nearly 1 second for long periods of time while running our preconditioned 70/30 random mixed workload.
 
Bob
@bwDraco thanks, I'll pass that on
@bwDraco I can't remember - how does the 750 compare to 850?
 
@Bob Slightly slower than the 850 EVO in most cases, but not noticeably so. For sustained workloads, generally better than other TLC NAND SSDs but not quite MLC level.
It's essentially an improved, cost-optimized version of the 840 EVO.
Endurance suffers a bit as well due to the planar TLC NAND, but the Samsung advantage is still there.
 
Bob
@bwDraco thanks
 
Bob
2:14 AM
@bwDraco apparently that needs a cooler
 
@Bob Hmm...
A simple air cooler isn't too expensive.
How much room is there left in the budget?
 
Bob
@bwDraco don't think there is a budget as such, more a "whatever's decent"
I mean, if single-thread is an issue... cpubenchmark.net/…
 
 
2 hours later…
3:54 AM
@JourneymanGeek as I said, just in case
At least you have a place to go if stuff goes bad
we have no hotlines or anything in turkey
 
4:18 AM
I'm attending my closest friend's graduation tomorrow, so I'll need to get to bed earlier. Good night.
 
5:05 AM
Hi!
Would you believe it? I get an android update three days after making that joke
@Avery we have a children's hotline here, but I don't know what (if anything) they actually do...
 
@Rahul2001 Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
Or, another way of looking at it: speaking of a thing empowers that thing to exist.
 
I wish that @JourneymanGeek becomes a CM
And @DavidPostill gets an awesome job which he loves
And @Avery gets to go live somewhere peaceful and safe
AND I WISH THAT EVERYONE IS ALWAYS HAPPY!
 
Bob
5:50 AM
@Rahul2001 That's more than 3 wishes
 
SBM
Hello
 
@Bob meh, no big deal. I'm feeling very wholesome. Want me to wish something for you too?
 
Bob
is "violent reconfiguration of the hardware" same thing as "rapid unscheduled disassembly"? — Lope 5 mins ago
 
6:23 AM
@Bob Seems to me to be the reverse
 
@Rahul2001 heh, been working towards improving my chances of that should the role open up
 
@JourneymanGeek Based on what I've seen of your work, you're quite qualified - technically and in the community spirit.
 
@GypsySpellweaver You guys feeling so means more than me saying it
 
Bob
It's probably more a question of location and openings than qualifications at this point...
 
And yeah, if a role opens up and/or they want to grow the community team, I have a good chance (though I can think of a few people better than me)
 
6:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek Don't know how it works, when the post opens up, but if it's "voted" you're a shoe-in. Got my vote
 
@Bob location is a non issue
 
Bob
@JourneymanGeek Hm? Weren't they trying to reduce remote workers? Or was that a different company...
 
@JourneymanGeek The location for the job is at the keyboard, right?
 
@GypsySpellweaver with the exception of the fact that it will be advertised in the room we do not talk about (tm), its just like any other post in SE
@Bob CMs are different anyway, I don't think any cm isn't remote
 
Bob
ah
 
6:32 AM
On the other hand, SE seems to be growing its careers and sales teams faster
@GypsySpellweaver it isn't voted in ;p
 
Oh, well. I imagine they review the activities of candidates anyway. Actions speak louder than words, and good actions speak loudest.
 
SBM
CM as in chief minister?
 
community manager
lol. This has come up here a few times ;p
136
Q: Who are the Community Team, and what do they do?

jcolebrandWho are the Community Team (sometimes referred to as the Community Managers or CM's), and what is their role? What is their relationship to the "Community" user? Return to FAQ index

 
SBM
6:53 AM
Oh
 
8 minutes left of lunch.
I have no idea what fresh horrors the next 4 hours or so of work holds
 
All the best.
 
OH!
They repainted the floors of the classrooms where the baking school will be in a baby poop yellow paint, with the smell of sick.
 
I LOVE THE INTERNET
 
@JourneymanGeek Is that to encourage people to leave, or to make the food seem better in comparison?
 
7:04 AM
er...
They don't need to do that to encourage people to leave.
A good chunk of the front desk team is leaving soon
 
@Rahul2001 I've loved watching it grow from an infant into a petulant teen.
@JourneymanGeek More of the usual turnover, or a special case?
 
@JourneymanGeek Where... do you work?
 
Bob
@Rahul2001 at a baking school
 
@GypsySpellweaver very high turnover rate it seems
 
morning
 
Bob
7:16 AM
@JourneymanGeek ttrss mobile app's ... surprisingly smooth. and the author not-so-surprisingly snarky in review responses.
bought it :P
 
is there any podcast you can recommend?
 
@JourneymanGeek So... you like kids? :P
 
@Bob yeah, Its the best one there is.
@Rahul2001 hmm. I handle them ok.
but quite literally, they and the users are the less stressful part of my job
 
SBM
7:35 AM
Oh,
 
morning
 
o/ @Burgi
 
moning
 
Anyone else seeing random CLI windows popping open and closing again instantly on their Windows 10 machines?
I thought those were Ubuntu on Windows updates, but now my SO has them on her laptop as well
Is it a virus? Should I panic?
 
@OliverSalzburg yes
i saw them at home last night
 
7:42 AM
@Burgi Do you know where they're coming from?
 
i didn't investigate
 
So, should this put my mind at ease or does this make it even more concerning?
 
they appeared too briefly to even be sure i'd seen them
 
You did see them! :D
 
:)
 
7:49 AM
@OliverSalzburg Your mind is not playing tricks on your. Your computer, however, I'm not so sure.
I think the same issue was discussed here in the past couple days, and it was related to something about Office.
 
i haven't got office installed
 
Bob
oof
"person struck by train"
 
@Bob Ugly
 
Bob
sounds like an attempted suicide
 
7:54 AM
attempted?
 
:(
 
normally trains are pretty effective
 
Bob
@Burgi no detail. and maybe mixed up with another person threatening it
 
ah ok
 
Bob
Partial closure: Trains suspended btw North Sydney and Wynyard due to person struck by train at Milsons point. More… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/869408963850371073
#WesternLine Some services delayed due to a person threatening self-harm at Werrington earlier, pls allow extra travel time.
(different location)
If you or someone you know is in need of crisis or suicide prevention support pls contact @LifelineAust on 131114 or http://ow.ly/N0EN30c8R68
...oof.
 
7:56 AM
:(
 
:(
 
Bob
@Burgi well, it was closed for 2h
which sounds ... bad
 
It takes a bit to clean up.
 
Bob
ow. reddit.com/r/sydney/comments/6e56ku/… between train and platform
owowow
 
@OliverSalzburg
https://superuser.com/questions/1210267/cmd-window-quickly-opens-and-closes
 
7:59 AM
@OliverSalzburg Check this resource: answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/…
 
Bob
...of course it's the freakin' daily mail that reports in detail
(local news seems to prefer to dance around it...)
 
0
A: Log of all applications that run or running manually on PC with start/end time

magicandre1981Mark Russinovich and Thomas Garnier released a tool called SysMon which allows logging of started processes: Sysmon includes the following capabilities: Logs process creation with full command line for both current and parent processes. Analyze the log details in Eventviewer:

@OliverSalzburg
 
@Bob wtf
 
Bob
@Burgi daily mail says attempted. in hospital now.
near the start of Vivid too... probably lots of people (& families, children) around
 
on to lighter news...
 
Bob
8:04 AM
 
@Burgi zippo made a new one?
 
@Bob Cute :D
@satibel Nope, a new Bic ;P
 
I got a match on tinder
 
thats awful
 
@Burgi lighten up, go on a diet or something :p
 
8:13 AM
@satibel Did you get the message on Pine?
@Burgi +1
 
@DavidPostill Neat
 
88 bad clusters. What happens after more clusters will appear? Will MFT know it?
I am thinking of using that HDD for keeping backups.
Would I better keep incrementals, differentials than fulls?
 
@Boris_yo What are the SMART values for that drive?
 
Imagine if bad sector develops in full backups? That means bummer?
@DavidPostill ^
 
buy a new one, migrate.
 
8:19 AM
@satibel This one is useless? Is that what you are saying?
 
reallocated sector count is a tall tell sign that your disk will fail soon.
 
@Boris_yo That disk is dying.
10
A: How to determine how dead a HDD is from SMARTCTL report

DavidPostillI did some tests and I'm not sure how bad this is Short Answer: Backup this drive and replace immediately. Long Answer: A company called Backblaze has collected data on hard drive failures. It has released that data in company blogs, highlighting which manufacturer's drives failed more often ...

SMART 5: Reallocated_Sector_Count
1-4 keep an eye on it, more than 4 replace

SMART 187: Reported_Uncorrect
1 or more replace

SMART 188: Command_Timeout
1-13 keep an eye on it, more than 13 replace

SMART 197: Current_Pending_Sector_Count
1 or more replace

SMART 198: Offline_Uncorrectable
1 or more replace
 
@Boris_yo Target practice, skeet shoot.
 
Bob
@DavidPostill lol. I've had a stable >4 for half a decade
but then I think the disk came with it
and it's sitting in RAID1, and backed up pretty well... so, didn't really care much :P
 
@Bob lol. Statistics never lie ;p
 
Bob
8:26 AM
it's more that reallocations suddenly appearing or growing is a serious issue
 
does anyone want my win 3.11 manual?
 
@Burgi yusss
 
@Burgi Paper or scanned?
 
paper
 
8:28 AM
btw, I should probably be planning to buy some new disks in the next year, I'm at a pb and over 30k hours.
 
Post from UK is prohibitive :(
 
9 hours ago, by Burgi
user image
 
Got a local computer museum?
 
@Burgi I would like a scan, I still have an 80 Mb HDD with it.
 
@GypsySpellweaver Yes, I know the quote. That's exactly why I made the sarcastic response above :)
 
8:29 AM
@DavidPostill :D
 
anyway, statistics show that 87% of them are made up, and you can ignore anything starting with "statistics show".
 
@GypsySpellweaver Depends on the weight. Sending a book to India should cost no more than the cost of a pint of beer ...
 
@DavidPostill What's India got to do with the price of tea in China?
 
7 mins ago, by Rahul2001
@Burgi yusss
 
@Burgi Win 3.11 and Win 3.11 for Workgroups are different. WFW is actually a month and a half older.
Guess they thought the enhancements to 3.1 were good enough to patch 3.1 into 3.11 without adding the workgroup networking components ?
 
8:38 AM
@Rahul2001 i'll see what i can do
 
@Burgi nope, it's no biggie
I might be able to find a copy here in some old library
 
8:52 AM
@DavidPostill Why "Reallocated Sectors Count" is suddenly on threshold? Shouldn't it increase at slow pace?
 
I wonder how long the copyright protection lasts on that? WFW was released in late 1993.
 
It's only 88 sectors out of millions. How is that disk will die soon?
 
@Boris_yo Exponential growth
 
It's not so much how many it is as why they are there.
 
88 sectors after 192 days of activity? I wonder what caused such condition that fast.
What is the average life expectancy of 2.5" HDD today?
 
8:55 AM
If they are originally there from a manufacturing defect, it's not likely to be much of a problem
 
@GypsySpellweaver Could the be there as a result of high heat? What is acceptable maximum temperature threshold?
 
If it's from a weakening of the magnetic properties of the platter, then it will continue to fail. Larger and faster
Temp limit unknown to me for that, but if it was caused by heat, it's not going to stop at 88
 
Bob
@GypsySpellweaver forever if Disney have their way
 
@Boris_yo You also have the Current Sector Pending count to worry about. These are bad sectors it hasn't yet been able to remap.
 
Bob
currently something ridiculous like 100 years but it's due for another extension soon
@DavidPostill that should only go up if it runs out of spare
 
8:59 AM
@Bob Isn't that why they keep reissuing movies, to restart the clock?
 
Bob
pending = dead drive. very dead drive.
@GypsySpellweaver no, that just keeps the trademark up
 
@DavidPostill Waiting for remapping? Remapping by CHKDSK? What remaps them?
 
Bob
only a change of law can extend copyright
 
@Bob Exactly. There are no spares left.
 
Bob
not that that's stopped Disney
 
9:00 AM
I'd say for a disk of that size, buy a new 500gb one for 30-40 bucks, copy your data to it, and call it a day.
unless you don't care about that data, and don't actually need that disk.
it's dead, jim.
 
@satibel This HDD is OEM taken from DELL laptop. I keep it in external USB casing.
@satibel Who's Jim?
 
7
A: Cause of Current Pending Sector and Offline Uncorrectable increase and then decrease to zero

Baruch EvenCurrent Pending Sector is just that, the number of locations the disk knows about that needs to be reallocated but haven't reallocated yet since the disk has no source for the data to be reallocated. Once you write into that location the disk will automatically reallocate the area to another plac...

 
lol I still keep 3.5" IDE HDDs in my closet. 80GB, 120GB and 160GB ...
 
@Boris_yo Captain James T Kirk
 
9:04 AM
@DavidPostill So bottom line it's bad sectors that currently hold no data.
Someday memes will be part of elementary school education...
 
@Boris_yo No. Bad sectors contains data. It hasn't tried to write it somewhere else yet.
 
@DavidPostill I referred to "Current Sector Pending"
 
9:46 AM
is there a way to show the CSS colour in the line number bar in VS2015?
 
hm. Looks like we're hiring another IT person
.... I might be doomed here
 
@JourneymanGeek Maybe it's your assistant.
 
or they have listened to you...
 
naw, more senior fellow. Best scenario is its my boss.
 
if they do fire you, you can leave knowing you did everything right and things have improved under your stewardship
 
9:49 AM
All I can say is, as much as it's tempting to be negative with the new person 'everything is crap here!' try as be as positive as possible
Maybe they fired your boss? :D
 
10:09 AM
I don't really have a boss. They're on long term mc
@djsmiley2k dude. I am always positive
 
shameless plug:
0
Q: Adding CSS Colour Swatches to Visual Studio

BurgiIn PHPStorm it is possible to have the colours in CSS shown as a little square in the line number bar. Is it possible to have this functionality in Visual Studio 2015? If so how do I enable it?

 
@Burgi I have the beginnings of an inventory system, mapped out the wifi APs... and actually have something close to a spreadhsheet of what passwords are for what
 
@JourneymanGeek progress
 
lol. We don't call in contractors apparently
 
10:21 AM
roar
Intel X299 Skylake-X HEDT platform announced, up to 18 cores: anandtech.com/show/11464/…, tomshardware.com/news/…
Pricing set at US$1,999 for the top 18-core chip. 8 cores for $599.
This is why Intel needs competition.
 
@JourneymanGeek why shouldn't it?
you invoice the carpet company afterwards
 
oops
We don't apparently
same as with laying ethernet
 
oh its in a wall?
 
AMD has effectively put a cap on what Intel can charge for their HEDT processors.
 
Yup, its in a wall
 
Bob
10:28 AM
@bwDraco Eh. As with AMD: would like to see benchmarks, and the higher core count is probably going to be useless to most people.
 
and both earth and green are green
 
Bob
OTOH - the turboboost clocks mean you might not sacrifice single-thread perf when compared to mainstream CPUs...
@JourneymanGeek o.O
@djsmiley2k ha. time for @JourneymanGeek to pull a @Burgi?
 
@Bob this place actually does need more support staff
 
hehehe
 
We're across... 3 buildings at this point?
 
Bob
10:30 AM
@JourneymanGeek I mean. Buildings isn't a great count :P
 
@Bob I'm walking about 17K steps a day at this point
More than the building with a boat on top
 
Bob
My old high school has... 1-2 full-time, +1 part-time, IT staff over ... 5 classroom-containing buildings? That's not even counting auxiliary buildings.
 
oh, and we randomly rent classrooms
 
@Bob Yeah. Clock speeds are unclear on Skylake-X 12-18C parts. The 14C+ processors are probably using the Skylake-SP MCC die (HCC goes up to 28 cores).
 
17 of our own, 3-4 rented as needed from the neighbours,
 
10:33 AM
The human at the other end of the chain reacted too quickly so by the time I refreshed the db, the data was already processed and I thought there was a bug XD
 
Jan 5 at 4:07, by bwDraco
I was thinking about the upcoming Skylake-X and Kaby Lake-X HEDT chips. Unlike previous generations of HEDT processors, they will not be based on server chips. Future Intel Xeon E5 and E7 processors are on the LGA 3647 socket shared with socketed Knights Landing (Xeon Phi) many-core processors. (In contrast, Broadwell-E chips are based on the Broadwell-EP LCC die.)
Well, I guess I was wrong.
The socket alone is not a good indication. Intel is being forced to bring advanced server silicon to the desktop.
Yes, LGA2066 is not being used for any server platform as far as I can tell.
However, it does not mean that Intel cannot use Skylake-SP dies in desktop processors.
 
I'd stuff a machine full of those Intel CPUs if I could afford it
 
Bob
@bwDraco They're not? Tom's Hardware lists them... idk how accurate though
If they're correct about a 2-core boost up to 4.5 GHz that'd be on par with an i7-7700k. Which means there'll be surprisingly little penalty to single-thread perf... it's just expensive.
 
The important thing to understand here is the fact that Intel is being forced to bring out top-flight server-class silicon to a consumer desktop platform at a competitive price due to pressure from AMD.
 
the 18 core thing is pointless if software isn't developed to make use of it
and on a server the licensing costs would be insane
 
Bob
10:39 AM
@Burgi Quite aside from software being "developed" to make use of it.
I can't just wave my magic wand and use more cores.
Well, I could. It'd just be useless and quite possibly even slow things down.
Lock contention is a funny beast.
 
@Bob Yeah. Even the kinds of photo editing workloads I go through are unlikely to fully utilize more than 8C/16T.
@Burgi Lots of servers, especially for cloud, use 8-16C processors on dual-socket boards. The idea is to get as much density as possible.
 
and the costs are insane
 
Bob
Though. Despite the price this is actually something I could've seen myself buying. Not the 18 core part. The 8 core one, maybe.
As long as it doesn't sacrifice single-thread perf, more cores (for more $) is a nice-to-have.
 
@bwDraco MS charge per core now
 
Bob
^ that was the main issue I had with ryzen
 
10:42 AM
@Burgi Not surprising due to the way high-core-count processors have proliferated.
 
Bob
if I spend 95% of my time on 1-2 cores, I don't want to reduce perf there
But. Eh. It's 5 months past when I was making these purchase decisions. Too late now.
 
@Bob Intel already had an answer to this, and it's Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0.
 
Bob
And it really depends on whether the benchmarks show up.
 
@bwDraco as we found out last night in computing "turbo" doesn't necessarily mean "fast" ;)
 
Bob
@bwDraco Yes, but that's Intel. Unfortunately AMD hasn't quite reached Skylake IPC yet, so it's that much harder for them to keep up in single-core even with overclocking/boosting.
 
10:44 AM
@Bob Yeah. This might even force AMD to drop prices a bit.
 
Bob
Maybe by 2020 there'll be more parity.
But. Speculation.
 
Pretty sure AMD still has some pricing wiggle room, but they had an advantage for a couple of months.
 
Bob
2020, AMD could catch up. Intel could pull NetBurst v2. Or Intel could stomp AMD into the ground with an impossible new arch.
Allllll speculation.
 
Right now, AMD is doing Haswell-level IPC.
 
Bob
The price war is nice.
@bwDraco Which is situational. I mean, it'll run most things just fine. But if at the same $ you're debating between 4 cores with lower IPC or 2 cores with higher IPC...
 
10:47 AM
Right now, >8C is just a solution looking for a problem for any reasonably foreseeable consumer workload, but it's only a matter of time before mainstream games start taking advantage of these extra cores.
 
Bob
Haswell IPC isn't bad
It's just ... not as competitive as same core count with same IPC would've been
Having to make the decision, the tradeoff... or spend more $... :(
@bwDraco "mainstream games" nope. not happening.
the processing pipeline of most game engines can't be parallelised very easily or very far - you quickly run into the limit when you have dependencies on previous steps
 
This is why we have DirectX 12 and Vulkan.
 
Bob
like maybe 10-75% of the time (depending on game) you can use all cores, but the rest of the time you're waiting on single-threaded calcs that can't be parallelised further
really depends on the game
I'd guess most games are closer to the lower end of that ratio
@bwDraco those don't help CPU-centric calcs. I'm not talking video rendering.
physics is a big one. luckily largely parallelisable.
AI is another one. this really depends on the type of AI
many many independent units? great with more cores
very deep decision trees? not so much
*shrug*
 
One thing is clear: This is the dawn of a new era of consumer massively-multicore processors.
 
Bob
the other part is, even if the problem is solvable, solving it can be Hard
 
10:56 AM
lights too are are mostly cpu bound I think.
 
Whether you like it or not, the onus is on developers to take full advantage of these extra cores.
 
Bob
it's surprisingly easy to end up with random race conditions, data corruption, a deadlock here, a livelock there...
@bwDraco you keep saying that as if it's just flipping a switch
going multi-threaded can easily make a problem 10x harder
(and much less debuggable too)
 
hmmm
there's 30~ staff on the desk
we support clients with 100 buildings each ;)
 
Bob
@satibel there are parallel raytracing algos but iirc they're not as good for some reason
 
I know it's hard. I can see developers trying to support 16+ hardware threads, even in a limited capacity. I highly doubt they'd be able to fully utliize 36 hardware threads anytime soon.
 
10:58 AM
fortunately I don't have to walk between any of them ;)
@bwDraco moar vm's!
 
There are quite a few games out there using at least 8 hardware threads, but it is a stretch beyond that point.
 
here a lock, there a lock, every where a lock lock!
 
Bob
@bwDraco for a great many problems, even hitting 8 threads is hard
and lock contention gets so much worse as you scale up
 
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