Root Access

When you use inspect element, and define the source it lists it as using markdown - how does that work? I would of figured that, the source code would stay the same.

barlop

@R.Doto your paragraph makes no sense and is not proper english "Instantaneously, I disabled 'secure boot', as it is advised here, likewise. Albeit, to no prevail, as seemingly it doesn't even get that far -- explained/shown below! "

R.Doto

HTML5** not markdown. oops

barlop

"to no prevail" really!

R.Doto

@barlap huh? Change parts of it but keep the format then.

barlop

12:47 AM

try "to no avail"

that'd be the correct idiom if you were to use it

and "instaneously" what on earth would that mean in this context

R.Doto

oh shit. I didn't notice that :P

barlop

verbal IQ 125 (me).

R.Doto

instantaneously*

typo

barlop

not just that.

but what does it mean in this context

R.Doto

i didn't read it over jeez

barlop

12:49 AM

well if you're going to try to edit my post then at least read your own edit

R.Doto

sub-consciously^

@barlop it is LATE. sorry haha

barlop

even aside from the spelling error on that word

what on earth would instantaneously mean in that context.

And you write this "I ran into when installing/running a previous OS. " I could write a whole post on the mistakes in your edit

but i'll leave the commentary at that!

R.Doto

simply: without reconsideration or "happening so soon"

@barlop there was nothing wrong with that quote^

barlop

it's completely irrelevant whether after reading that link I waited 10 minutes or 10 hours before disabling secure boot

to even use that word, suggests that it makes a difference (besides suggesting that i'm computer capable of operating "instantaneously".. even computers can perhaps at best operate concurrently or in parallel)

R.Doto

@barlop I was attempting to make you sound less like a noob than it was inferred through the post haha. It was connotation for experience.

barlop

12:54 AM

you who has never used a dos boot disk..

and doesn't know what Win PE is

is trying to make me sound less like a noob!

R.Doto

i do^^

barlop

well, you said you've never used it

actually your edit sounded very noobish

R.Doto

Windows personal environment jeez.

barlop

for example writing about doing x as advised.. is noobish thinking.

And by the way, that post that suggested that, was incorrect. I wouldn't call it advice, it was just something to try, and it was too wrong to even call it "advice".

R.Doto

huh?

Shakespeare, please.

too many comment edits ugh

barlop

12:57 AM

people posting ideas on forums, are stabbing in the dark, If I try something that is suggested, I wouldn't call it following advice.

R.Doto

EDIT

barlop

you are aware of that idiom, right?

R.Doto

edIT

barlop

I don't think so, not the last two, but then you can edit yours

R.Doto

Like that?

barlop

12:59 AM

well done.

R.Doto

Thanks

barlop

that is a very good display of your skills ;-)

R.Doto

hehe

allquixotic

chat has a 2 minute editing limit for non-moderators on chat lines, FYI, so anything with a "pencil" next to it was edited very shortly after it was posted, unless you're talking to a diamond moderator

R.Doto

It gets beter, dw

I figured :P

@barlop post your new edit, then ;)

Bob

1:04 AM

Dammit. I really want to use arrow functions in JS.

R.Doto

@bob arrow functions?

Bob

Arrow functions.

R.Doto

What's the buzz about them?

Bob

They're nice to use.

R.Doto

Never heard of them :(

Bob

1:09 AM

Think (anonymous) lambda functions in other languages (C#, Python, etc.)

R.Doto

I don't do programming... I know about lamdba in relation to pure mathematics, if that means anything ahah

c'mon. he rejected my edit; superuser.com/review/suggested-edits/469586

Bob

It's related to lambda calculus.

R.Doto

@bob it wasn't that bad was it? :(

Bob

shrug I don't know.

barlop

the character limit was rather small.. if it were longer i'd have listed all the errors in there.. Some have already been discussed in this chat

R.Doto

1:13 AM

@bob C'mon, honestly? :D

Journeyman Geek

@R.Doto when your edit has that much additional info, it might be better off as its own answer.

barlop

well I don't think even he is thinking it's an answer

R.Doto

It was just reformatted and editted slightly in terms of literacy (albeit the typos)

yup, no where near an answer

barlop

no you added additional info too, and wrong info

for example, you wrote "likewise. Albeit, to no prevail, as seemingly it doesn't even get that far -- explained/shown below! "

not only did you invent an idiom that doesn't exist (it's to no avail), as mentioned.

But what is explained below that line you added, has nothing to do with that

R.Doto

@barlop we've been over this. I admit that i made some typos

barlop

1:16 AM

i'm saying not just typos.

but additional things you added were wrong there for example.

R.Doto

I didn't add any other new info. i just adapted what was originally there

barlop

You also added words e.g. "instantaneously" which is meaningless, and removes clarity, and is irrelevant, and suggests things that aren't the case.

I just gave an example of wrong info

that line you added that I mentioned above.

R.Doto

To say it's 'meaningless', is to exclaim that it's not a real word nor, a valid adverb.

It is.

barlop

I wrote earlier, "instantaneous" is meaningless in this context.

see where I wrote to you in chat, saying

"try "to no avail"
that'd be the correct idiom if you were to use it
and "instaneously" what on earth would that mean in this context"

And if you learn some philosophy.. meaningless doesn't mean the word doesn't exist

R.Doto

Computing isn't devout of emotion or thought. It was first person; generally a form which includes literary devices lol

barlop

1:22 AM

If you ever tried listening to deepak chopra, or listened to somebody refuting him, you might see or hear in the refutation, that the words he says exist and make sense individually but put together or in context, it's meaningless.

R.Doto

Nope, i know the definition of meaningless ;)

barlop

I don't think you do

R.Doto

How many people do you know of that study philosophy, that fit, x>21? I have more valuable things to devote my time to lol

i'm not below 18 fyi

-.-

barlop

definitely below 30 though

R.Doto

I fail to see how that is a bad thing, however.

barlop

1:28 AM

I didn't say it was, but it shows... re dos boot disks.

R.Doto

Sigh.

Bob

@allquixotic My proxytunnel + SSH tunnel is working well :D

R.Doto

I don't really need an extensive background in the use of DOS boot disks etc, at the moment...

allquixotic

@Bob proxytunnel? so, not stunnel? interesting. and cool.

Bob

The only problem is its speeds to AU (because AU => US => AU)

but US-hosted sites work fine

allquixotic

1:31 AM

mine is "establish an innocent-looking TLS 1.2 tunnel using stunnel and ssh port share from there"

Bob

@allquixotic That's basically what I'm doing but with proxytunnel.

All contained within a KiTTY profile.

allquixotic

oh, nice

R.Doto

@bob Do you do cryptography?

allquixotic

I compiled the stunnel binary myself to avoid binary identification :D

Bob

I'm guessing proxytunnel might look a bit more, ah, legitimate. Considering it's connecting to a standard Apache server.

Though... I don't know if the HTTP CONNECT is detectable. That could be an issue.

@R.Doto Nope.

I know some basics, but nothing advanced.

allquixotic

1:33 AM

@Bob when you're going out through a forced proxy server, don't you have to do an HTTP CONNECT all the time?

Bob

@allquixotic I don't actually have a forced proxy here.

barlop

i guess it is detectable

Bob

Just restrictions to ports 80 and 443.

allquixotic

I'm pretty sure the session establishment logic that's sent "in the clear" when you're accessing a stunnel server over an HTTP proxy is identical to establishing an HTTPS connection except for the exact endpoint of choice

Bob

I don't know if they're doing some passive snooping.

R.Doto

1:34 AM

@bob Networking? (Sounds familiar to something my dad talks about on the phone) :P

allquixotic

the only real detectable thing about it would be the hostname you're connecting to

Bob

@allquixotic Should be, yea.

barlop

well, and the fact that it's using TLS

if there's a CONNECT line there

allquixotic

@barlop that's hardly distinctive; TLS is used everywhere nowadays

Bob

@barlop The CONNECT command should not be sent in the clear.

allquixotic

1:35 AM

especially after recent disclosures about SSLv3 being horrible for security

Bob

And TLS would look perfectly normal.

@allquixotic I'm not entirely sure why I chose to use proxytunnel over stunnel :P

allquixotic

if you wanted to really keep the IDS/firewall guessing, you could host your endpoint on EC2... there are so many sites directly hosting stuff out of EC2 servers with an EC2 RDNS entry that they couldn't possibly block every EC2 site without crippling peoples' Internet access, and it's hard as hell to selectively block individual EC2 sites

mine's on a well known hosting provider though, so, more obvious if they did some manual digging or wanted to apply a blacklist filter

Bob

@allquixotic Thankfully that's probably not required for now, though I'll keep that in mind.

R.Doto

This is too intense. Night.

Bob

Could even snag one located in Sydney.

A micro instance should do it.

barlop

1:37 AM

@R.Doto gnight

Is that a difference between SSL 3 and TLS 1 e.t.c

Bob

Problem with AWS is you need to pay for data usage.

allquixotic

grab a spot instance and tell it to persist the EBS volume if it gets terminated

barlop

re CONNECT being sent in the clear or not?

allquixotic

spot micro is cheap

Bob

@barlop CONNECT is never sent in the clear.

With SNI, you leak the host.

Otherwise, it's just the SSL/TLS negotiation.

allquixotic

1:38 AM

@barlop the HTTP CONNECT verb is sent when you are trying to connect to an encrypted tunnel, be it SSLv3, TLS1.0, TLS1.1, TLS1.2, etc., through an HTTP proxy, and it doesn't matter what the application layer is - it could be anything, really

as long as your "in the clear" negotiation with the endpoint looks just like establishing an ordinary SSLv3/TLS1.x tunnel against a server that you're going to do HTTPS with, which stunnel deliberately does look exactly like that, they can't tell what's inside your encrypted tunnel

Bob

GET, POST, PUT, DELETE, CONNECT, etc., are all sent after the TLS tunnel is established (i.e. as ciphertext).

barlop

oh ok.. So HTTPS is implicit SSL/TLS

Bob

Otherwise you'd have a pretty massive leak. ("Oh, you're accessing /some/sensitive/thing")

barlop

only SMTP has explicit SSL/TLS

Bob

In an ideal world, SNI wouldn't be necessary at all. But we need it to support shared hosting, unfortunately.

(OTOH, unencrypted DNS leaks the hostname anyway... and if it's not shared hosting then the IP would identify the target too)

Journeyman Geek

1:42 AM

@Bob boo... Shared hosting.

allquixotic

yeah, I mean, one way or another your proxy/IDS/router is going to know where you're trying to connect to, either by IP or DNS or both

you can't not tell it where you're connecting

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Also (shared) caching e.g. CloudFlare

allquixotic

you can hide where you're actually trying to connect to by bouncing off something else that's innocent-looking, but ultimately it will know your first hop outside the LAN

Bob

@barlop That's not true at all.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob yeah. But erf. Half the trouble with se is cloud flare.

barlop

1:44 AM

which other protocols use explicit TLS besides SMTP?

Journeyman Geek

Tho, I love em as a 6 to 4 gateway.

Bob

First, there's no standard definition for "implicit" or "explicit" TLS. That's a protocol-specific definition.

allquixotic

FTP does either implicit or explicit SSL/TLS...

Bob

Secondly, FTP also does something like that.

And I can also define any arbitrary protocol I want as supporting some form of "explicit TLS".

allquixotic

I'd actually call HTTPS more of an explicit TLS, since you don't first establish a regular unencrypted connection and then negotiate "up" to encrypted, usually -- you directly establish the TLS handshake first

Bob

1:45 AM

Maybe if you're only talking "common" protocols or specifically Internet Standards, in which case FTP would still be included.

allquixotic

STARTTLS in implicit FTP is more like "Hi there! (in the clear)" "Hi there, I'm also in the clear!" "Gee, wouldn't it be nice if we made this encrypted?" "Yeah...." "!(@#$*#@$)($@#$)@##@$$39402431343%$!#413904234"

Bob

@allquixotic The opposite, actually.

> While the implicit method requires that a Transport Layer Security is established from the beginning of the connection, which in turn breaks the compatibility with non-FTPS-aware clients and servers, the explicit method uses standard FTP protocol commands and replies in order to upgrade a plain text connection to an encrypted one, allowing a single control port to be used for serving both FTPS-aware and non-FTPS-aware clients.

Implicit => TLS is always assumed. Explicit => TLS is negotiated via the protocol itself, and is not compulsory.

barlop

I know in SMTP , STARTTLS is used for explicit TLS

I don't think it's used for implicit

so i'd be surprised if it was for FTP

allquixotic

HTTP/1.1 Upgrade header

HTTP/1.1 introduced support for the Upgrade header field. In the exchange, the client begins by making a clear-text request, which is later upgraded to a newer http protocol version or switched to a different protocol. Connection upgrade must be requested by the client, if the server wants to enforce an upgrade it may send a "426 upgrade required" response. The client can then send a new request with the appropriate upgrade headers while keeping the connection open. == Use with TLS == One use is to begin a request on the normal http port but switch to Transport Layer Security (TLS). In practice...

both ways are possible :P but yeah, I got my implicit/explicit backwards

barlop

@Bob do you know which FTP commands create TLS?

Bob

1:50 AM

@barlop Would be the AUTH extensions, I believe.

tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4217

> The AUTH command takes a single parameter to define the security mechanism to be negotiated.

> To protect the data channel as well, the PBSZ command, followed by the PROT command sequence, MUST be used.

AUTH was introduced in RFC 2228 tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2228

But TLS didn't exist back then.

@allquixotic Hm. I hadn't heard of that being used to initiate TLS.

barlop

How do you make a Windows 7 DVD that works with "secure boot"?

Bob

Hm... it doesn't 'just work'?

barlop

2:07 AM

no, it says "EFI DVD/CDROM has been blocked by the current security policy".

I can disable secure boot in the BIOS

but thought there might be another way where it'd work.

Bob

Interesting.

I wonder if you need to update the EFI binaries on the disc.

Does Windows 7 even support Secure Boot?

> The following versions of Windows support Secure Boot: Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows RT 8.1, Windows 8, Windows Server 2012, and Windows RT.

Nope.

technet.microsoft.com/en-au/library/hh824987.aspx

@barlop You're probably out of luck with Win7.

barlop

well I can disable secure boot..

but i'm getting a weird red line problem...

Bob

UEFI spec 2.2 D was finalised Nov 2 2010

barlop

2

Q: I get a red bar when trying to install windows 7 DVD, and it freezes

I get a red bar when trying to install windows 7 DVD, and it freezes. I read here https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/aee2b86b-ab1d-409a-b8ca-e0f6a4c90b3c/windows-7-pro-installation-media-stalling-at-startup-screen?forum=w7itproinstall to turn off secure boot. But I have. ...

Bob

Windows 7 was released 2009

Hm. UEFI 2.2 was actually initially released 2008

> Secure Boot requires a PC that meets the UEFI Specifications Version 2.3.1, Errata C or higher.

barlop

2:14 AM

well, ok. But disabling secure boot I get a different error. A red line!

or a BSOD

Bob

Interesting. So even though 2.2 apparently introduced Secure Boot, the Microsoft implementation requires something newer. Newer than Win7 is.

barlop

depending on whether I set the motherboard firmware to legacy, or UEFI, controls whether I get a BSOD or a red bar.

Bob

You could probably get around it by installing a Win8 bootloader and using that to boot Win7 (this is a supported config, if a bit hard to install...)

barlop

well i'll start by disabling secure boot though i'm running into problems

even though it gets furher and boots the dvd

and it doesn't say whether the problems are because of that.. for all I know they probably aren't because of that.

Bob

Have you tried updating your motherboard firmware?

Just in case they fixed a bug?

barlop

2:19 AM

not yet

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Speaking of putting games on an SSD - now you have me wondering if I should do that :P

@allquixotic Getting lots of G4 updates... I think this one might be Marshmallow. Too bad I can't use that without losing root.

Journeyman Geek

2:41 AM

@Bob the cheap SSDs have decent read, slow write.

Donno how much random access being better affects it tho

Ramhound

2:57 AM

0

Q: Can you get Windows 10 insider builds without being signed in to a Microsoft account if you were an insider during open beta?

I thought if you were an insider from beta, you don't have to be signed in? Because I didn't get the update to build 10586 from being stuck on 10240. Only got it after a day or so after I signed in. Helpful links?

windows windows-10

such wonderful people we have....

@Bob Windows 7 does not support Secure Boot, while it was part of the standard, they Microsoft didn't quantify any support with its OEMs until Windows 8

Windows 7 of course supports EFI firmware though.

Bob

3:36 AM

@JourneymanGeek I'm not talking dx :P

I was thinking maybe a SanDisk Ultra II

Cheap, somewhat shoddy, but not that dodgy :P

Journeyman Geek

@Bob oh ;p

The thing about random reads being fast is still true tho

Bob

200 USD for a 960 GB Ultra II

Journeyman Geek

ooh

Yeah, that sounds like a good. cheap buy

Ramhound

3:58 AM

ScanDisk might be pushing out a new product come CES 2015

hence the price reduction

Bob

@JourneymanGeek cept I don't need nearly that much space :P

60 USD for the 240 GB one

damn, went up to 76 USD

was cheaper last night lol

@JourneymanGeek There's also the OCZ Trion 100 for 55 USD (240 GB) :P

Probably not that reliable.

Bob

7:04 AM

... why does this have a USB type A port?

allquixotic

@Bob :/

Bob

Hmm... OCZ or MyDigitalSSD? :P

Bob

7:54 AM

@allquixotic looks like the bootloader unlock isn't coming

Ah well, I'll be fine on Lollipop for a year or two. Might hop back to the S7 if they put the card slot back... and it doesn't cost a fortune.

Or maybe try to get a actually unlocked phone.

I don't like Nexus much and it's hard to get other unlocked models here :/

Journeyman Geek

8:32 AM

@Bob that's kinda common on cheap/generic enclosures

Bob

@JourneymanGeek It's also really weird and kinda stupid.

Journeyman Geek

yup

But common ;p

Bob

8:49 AM

@allquixotic amazon.com/b/ref=gc_5p50_vc_hol15?ie=UTF8&node=11158618011

Oliver Salzburg

9:22 AM

@allquixotic I hope you're glad to hear that I'm also doing the Italian stereotype thing in my mind for .io domains now

Journeyman Geek

Italian stereotype thing?

Oliver Salzburg

Nov 19 at 16:30, by allquixotic

@OliverSalzburg Key-base-ee-oh me, please! :D (I read any .io domain as if it were the io at the end of an Italian word)

R.Doto

@barlop when I asked you for pictures of your bios setup utility you declined -.-

Journeyman Geek

ahh

ahh the strisand effect boingboing.net/2015/12/01/…

Bob

9:49 AM

@JourneymanGeek I've ordered the 240 GB Trion 100 :P

Not in stock right now so I probably have a few days to cancel if I want.

Journeyman Geek

;p

Bob

Hey, if nothing else it's useful as a scratch disk.

Hm... actually... I could pull an @allquixotic and use it for cache at work..?

nah.

Journeyman Geek

Or a Drive of eventual doom? ;p

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Entirely possible!

It is OCZ :P

Toshiba NAND and controller though.

But it's 19mm TLC, which is always a scary thought (see: 840 EVO)

Journeyman Geek

"All storage must die" ;p

Bob

9:55 AM

@JourneymanGeek "Some just die faster than others."

(not an actual quote)

Journeyman Geek

Oh in my head that went to the tune of while the wild roses grow youtube.com/watch?v=xBq_PSg3vHc

Bob

Ok, SSD, some USB 3 => SATA adapters (no enclosure) and a couple USB 3 hubs coming in a few weeks :D

Journeyman Geek

10:27 AM

0_0

I'd so wonder how the USB3 and direct connections compare

and whether you can use... er... the special storage mode for USB3 on those adaptors

Bob

@JourneymanGeek ...I don't have any SATA ports to spare. Any.

Still haven't gotten around to installing that PCIe card

@JourneymanGeek Special storage mode?

UASP? Yea, sure .That's a given.

Journeyman Geek

Yeah

Bob

Could you imagine putting these on mass storage?!

Journeyman Geek

(I'm sick, not quite braining)

Bob

An SSD on mass storage mode would be a joke.

Journeyman Geek

10:30 AM

ugh. I don't remember the ip address of my secondary router

Bob

nmap? that windows discovery thing? manual scan?

192.168.2.1? :P

192.168.1.2? :P

Journeyman Geek

.101 ;p

nmapped it

I USUSALLY remember these things by heart

qasdfdsaq

Derp

@JourneymanGeek One thing that's made easier through having tons of routers...

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Damn, I was going to guess .100 next :P

@JourneymanGeek I've wanted to map proper hostnames, but I'd probably forget the hostnames first.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob Most of my systems I use hostanmes

(and the asus is right under my desk)

Bob

10:40 AM

@JourneymanGeek I'm a bit of a mix. Client computers have hostnames but I also know the IPs and tend to just use those directly (the hostnames are pretty bland/default shit). Servers have proper hostnames I can usually remember. Networking devices (routers, etc.) are just by IP.

Journeyman Geek

lol

Phoebe I remember the IP address since smb/nmb is flaky on it.

The rest I just go by hostname

Bob

@JourneymanGeek What, no DNS? :P

Also, again with the phoebe... -_-

Journeyman Geek

No ;p

My setup is soooo jerryrigged

I'll do it right when I move out ;p

With my current setup, I have my main AP/consumer router near no other internet connected equipment, cat5 drop to a switch to the room where we used to have our computers (not any more) homeplug over that to my desk to the asus router.

Bob

...ouch

Journeyman Geek

lol

(And I need to get into the asus router cause my brother needs to change his password for it, and I need to instruct him on how to do so)

Ideal setup? Leave the ONT where it Ethernet cabling to the other end of the apartment (or homeplug), Ethernet to to either my current room or my brother's room (which I'm eventually planning on ~~appending~~ annexing)

Bob

10:50 AM

@JourneymanGeek how is the homeplug, anyway? Throughout, latency, reliability? Did you fix your interference issues? (Can't remember)

Journeyman Geek

@Bob Slower than rated, plenty fast, good enough.

I'm on 1800 and under 'ideal' conditions my line speed is about 300.

Its reliable though

the 200 stuff is crap, 500 is the 'optimal' setup for price/reliability IMO

Bob

1800?!

I mean, sure that's "ideal", but it's a bit of a stretch for plain copper...

Is there a rated max distance?

Journeyman Geek

Typically you can divide the rated value by 6 for line rate in each direction

Oh, mine are in adjacent rooms

but I've done 200 across my apartment

qasdfdsaq

That used to be true, though I've heard people who don't get more than 60Mbps nomatter the rating.

50Mbps on a 200-rated homeplug, 60Mbps on a 500-rated homeplug, 60Mbps on a 1000mbps rated homeplug

Journeyman Geek

I didn't get the newer ones for more speed, they also deal with noise better.

qasdfdsaq

10:59 AM

Wired ethernet ftw.

I've got so many routers I've got a separate subnet for them. Router one is .11, router two is .12, router 3 is .13, etc. Goes all the way up to 53 at the moment.

Journeyman Geek

Of course

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