Root Access

allquixotic

12:12 AM

!!meme okay

ChatBot John Cavil

allquixotic

(1) WTF background color and font color?
(2) *all you're going to tell me in the email* is "stay [LOWERCASE] signed in to keep earning credits"?

Julius

12:58 AM

could someone explain subnetting to me

I would be so deeply thankful

allquixotic

@Julius that's a rather big topic. what exactly don't you understand about it?

Julius

@allquixotic what is a subnet. I am told that it is to distribute IPs more efficiently.. does it mean that when I own an IP, I automatically own a few others that I'm free to distribute?

why can't these users just own the same IPs themselves, just independantly

allquixotic

@Julius a subnet is a variably sized "chunk" of IP addresses. although a subnet can also consist of exactly one IP address.

@Julius the way the internet works, there are certain IP address ranges (subnets, actually) which are pre-defined by standards bodies to be reserved for local area networks, meaning that they can be "re-used" for each separate internet customer. the remainder of the IP addresses are "publicly-routable", which means that if you ask for that IP anywhere in the world, you're resolving to exactly one place, and no one else can have that IP.

imagine a city block of buildings, looking at them from above by helicopter. you can draw a rectangle around any set of houses you want. subnets are kind of like that. you can draw a rectangle around one house; that's a valid subnet. or you can draw a rectangle around the entire block. or half of it. etc

the only restriction on subnets is that a single subnet can't consist of "disjoint" IP addresses (you can't skip numbers). think back to the city block example: you cannot draw a single rectangle that encompasses both the top-left house in the city block, and the bottom-right house, while skipping everything else in the middle. it's impossible.

Julius

so, for each subnet mask, the ip chunks that are masked (ie, &'d to 0s) are the chunks that are reserved to private IPs?

allquixotic

@Julius you're conflating Network Address Translation (the functionality that lets routers have private LAN IP addresses) and subnets.

NAT and subnets are two completely separate topics.

Julius

1:13 AM

ok

allquixotic

"for each subnet mask, the IP chunks that are masked" are the chunks that are contained within that subnet. that's all it says.

a subnet is basically a fancy way of defining an IP address range.

Julius

ok

that makes sense

but what's the purpose of those ranges. can you own a range

allquixotic

now, there are two subnets which have been defined by the standards bodies to be reserved for private (LAN) IPs.

(there may be more, but I'm only aware of these two ranges, as they are the most commonly used)

10.0.0.0/8 and 192.168.0.0/16 are the two private LAN subnets that are frequently used

that means, if you have an IP address which falls within those subnets (IP ranges), that means the IP address in question is part of a private network, and is not "publicly routable" to the same computer from anywhere in the world.

your neighbor could have their Playstation 3 connected to their router as "192.168.15.6", and you could have a Macbook Pro connected to your own router as "192.168.15.6". and there's nothing wrong with that.

but if your neighbor's router's public IP address is 37.16.45.192, your router would not be able to have that IP address too (at the same time).

because that IP is not within the private subnet range.

Julius

ok cool

allquixotic

and yes, you can own a range.

usually, IPv4 ranges are not assigned to residential customers because they don't need them.

most residential customers get one public IP, and it changes from time to time.

you could view that as being assigned an IPv4 "/32" subnet, because a /32 subnet is one IP.

Julius

1:18 AM

sure

allquixotic

my dedicated server has a /29 subnet, which means I get 2^(32-29) = 2^3 = 8 IP addresses.

Julius

so the point of reserving 192.168.0.0/16 is that that way you never have both a private and a public user with the same ip

allquixotic

only 6 of them are usable, but that's because my server's hosting provider uses two IPs for their own equipment within the subnet

@Julius Correct.

the point of defining private subnets (and making the rest of the IP space public, by default) is to ensure that, for any given IP address, you can immediately determine "is this IP a public IP, or a private one?"

you'll never see someone get assigned the IP address "192.168.15.6" on the public, globally-routable Internet. Ever. won't happen.

but if a computer on your LAN has that IP address assigned to its wireless or ethernet card, that means it's living in a private subnet (NAT).

Julius

ok but for your server, that was your choice

allquixotic

@Julius correct - I'm actually paying a couple extra dollars per month for a /29

Julius

1:22 AM

you could have chosen to use the 192.168.0.0/16 subnet and get 2^16 IPs

and that's only a difference in router config

allquixotic

@Julius but that's a private subnet, so it's not globally routable.

Julius

sure

ok

allquixotic

I could configure my server to assign me 192.168.0.0/16, but you wouldn't be able to type in "http://192.168.17.44" (for example) and reach my server in Germany.

Julius

so you're saying you're renting a subnet from the public space

allquixotic

Yes.

Julius

1:23 AM

but that's just a weird way of specifying a range

couldn't someone rant you IPS 10.10.10.100 to 10.10.10.107

allquixotic

@Julius the /29 is provisioned out by my hosting provider's country's equivalent of ICANN, RIPE. RIPE is an organization that "gives out" (for a fee) IP addresses, based on demonstrated need.

Julius

rent*

allquixotic

@Julius if someone rented me 10.10.10.100 to 10.10.10.107, those IPs would only be routable within some private LAN (basically, only for other computers that are also inside that router's private LAN).

Julius

why

I mean

Anonymous

oh no

Julius

1:25 AM

if a hosting provider rented those to you

Anonymous

it's classful vs classless laziness all again

allquixotic

@Julius because that's what the standard says.

Julius

uh

allquixotic

@Julius the hosting provider wouldn't be able to sell me a private LAN subnet, because the public registrars don't sell those addresses.

Julius

so the standard says you can only rent powers of two basically

allquixotic

1:26 AM

no.

it's not about the size of the subnet; it's about the IP addresses themselves.

you said "10.10.10.100" -- any IP address that starts with "10." is a Private LAN address (only), by definition.

Julius

oh ok

bad example then

allquixotic

yes. very bad. :P

Julius

I meant to say arbitrary range of arbitrary number of public ips

allquixotic

oh. yeah. as far as that goes, you can only have subnets of sizes of powers of two, but the IP address range can start at any (valid) IP address. it doesn't have to start at a power of two.

for example, 74.50.9.117/29 would be the range: 74.50.9.112 - 74.50.9.119

subnet-calculator.com/cidr.php

Julius

so subnets are only a notation for ip ranges, with some of them having properties assigned to them by international standards

allquixotic

1:30 AM

punch in the base IP address, then select from the CIDR Netmask field (the last item in the list, 255.255.255.255, is equivalent to a /32, or one IP, and it gets bigger the further up you go), and it'll calculate

@Julius yes.

subnets are notation for IP ranges, indeed, but you can't specify any arbitrary IP address range using subnet notation

just like you can't draw a single rectangle around the first and last house on a city block from a top-down view

also, don't confuse a subnet itself and a subnet mask -- the mask is basically converting the prefix into an IP address mask... though it sounds like you might already get that part

Julius

sure.

hey thanks a lott allquixotic

allquixotic

my favorite examples of netmask-to-prefix conversion are the multiples of 8, which are the easiest:
/8 == 255.0.0.0 (255*255*255 IPs, yay)
/16 = 255.255.0.0 (255*255 IPs, yay)
/24 = 255.255.255.0 (255 IPs, yay)
/32 = 255.255.255.255 (one IP, yay)

Julius

I think I get it now

networking exam next tuesdays

polymtl.ca/etudes/cours/details.php?sigle=INF3405

allquixotic

one more person who can shake their head and say "you don't need to know that" when your dad asks you "what is the subnet mask? is it making my internet slow?"

you can tell him "no, Dad... it's a lot more complicated than that"

Julius

ahahah :P

it ll be a while before my dad asks about subnet masks

allquixotic

1:37 AM

mine was asking me about it many years ago, when we had DSL, before I went to college

I had to look it up

Julius

:) mine still doesn't know the difference between a pdf and a jpg

allquixotic

the cable technician who tried to provide phone support was walking him through his TCP/IP settings in Windows (I think it was Windows ME or Windows 98) making sure it's all correct

my dad doesn't know a lot about computers, but he knows how to get into settings dialogs in Windows and programs and "mess with them" (often royally screwing things up)

Windows 8.1 has, fortunately, made it a lot harder for him to destroy his computer

he hasn't reported any problems for at least two months O_O

Julius

wow

I need to install 8.1 on my father's box asap then

allquixotic

it was a lot easier to break Windows 95/98/ME/XP than Windows 8/8.1

Julius

before moving to california

allquixotic

1:39 AM

those were more fragile, more "raw" operating systems back then

my dad even used File Recovery successfully to recover an accidentally deleted file

on his own... incredible

Julius

wow

that's actually pretty impressive

allquixotic

@Julius that's a long move. I took a vacation to Toronto last year, but that's as far as I've been away from Maryland.

(also been to California, but never went outside of Ontario in Canada)

Julius

yeah, and Im from quebec

so long move indeed

it's just for the summer though

allquixotic

providing phone support to your family members who are clueless with computers is the kind of thing you are obligated to do, because they're family, but it's always an ordeal, never easy, and always happens at the least opportune times

Julius

yup

allquixotic

1:43 AM

like when you're trying to go out on a date with a girl... heading out the door... RING RING RING. "Hi, son. I'm having some trouble with my comp..." you: @!(#(!@#)%*!@%*

Julius

last year I installed Chrome Remote Desktop

did a fair job

allquixotic

or when you're studying for an exam

Julius

ahahah that's what caller id is for ;)

just kidding

allquixotic

of course, we don't talk about people in Root Access having girlfriends or even being able to get within 50 feet of any woman who might be at all dateable.

you can see from the star wall what we think of girlfriends

Julius

lol. I only see your "> girlfriend'

allquixotic

1:46 AM

2 days ago, by jokerdino

@allquixotic No no. the only time shy folks get to talk with anyone from the opposite sex.

hang out here. you'll learn a lot and we'll suck you into SU culture. ;p and @CanadianLuke will make sure you're being properly Canadian at all times, of course

(while he's balancing his duties with handling people who are on strike for some reason...)

Julius

properly canadian, as opposed to what ? :P

a frog moved to the US

allquixotic

a frog? O.o

Julius

List of ethnic slurs

The following is a list of ethnic slurs (ethnophaulisms) that are, or have been, used as insinuations or allegations about members of a given ethnicity or to refer to them in a derogatory (critical or disrespectful), pejorative (disapproving or contemptuous), or insulting manner in the English-speaking world. For the purposes of this list, an ethnic slur is a term designed to insult others on the basis of race, ethnicity, or nationality. Each term is listed followed by its country or region of usage, a definition, and a reference to that term. Ethnic slurs may also be produced by combin...

:P

allquixotic

lol

Julius

just kidding

allquixotic

1:52 AM

and here I thought your gravatar was a frog and I wasn't realizing it

animal gravatars are very popular here, as is "mild" animal roleplaying :P

we regularly call @JourneymanGeek "the dog" or "puppy"

Apr 8 at 15:58, by That Brazilian Guy

Except for @journeymangeek, he's ALWAYS a dog.

Julius

nah it's just a lobster claw3

allquixotic

oh haha

Julius

for no reason

looked tasty I guess

allquixotic

I'm a vegetarian, but we can definitely come up with lobster jokes lol

Bob

o.O

allquixotic

1:58 AM

@Bob we have a lobster! @Julius @Bob is our local fox

and if you ask him what he says, he'll bear his teeth. just watch.

he hasn't really been too cooperative when trying to wiretap his morse code conversations with horses, either.

Bob

@allquixotic only really necessary if you need the same port routed to multiple machines. Otherwise, NAT is an option.

allquixotic

►

(in case you're lost about the fox references)

Bob

obligatory

!!foxno

ChatBot John Cavil

allquixotic

:D

Julius

2:00 AM

:)

►

this made the front page of reddit

allquixotic

lol i've seen that one

Julius

yesterday

!!foxno

ChatBot John Cavil

Julius

hmm :)

allquixotic

just realized Cavil is still wearing his Christmas hat

he'll be wearing that still from 2013 when 2014 Christmas comes around

!!tell 15023993 listcommands

ChatBot John Cavil

2:03 AM

help, listen, eval, coffee, refresh, forget, info, listcommands, tell, afk, awsm, ban, unban, color, convert, define, doge, domain, export, findcommand, forgetseen, github, google, hang, inhistory, import, jquery, learn, test, why, ok, hello, friday, after5, theanswer, caution, nicethings, europe, goaway, status, idk, thatword, poptart, routertroubleshooting, networkingproblem, meta, rlemon, no, foxno, yes, orlmente, fixit, uio, taytaytay, ping, maybe, say, facepalm, hv, ohhh
whocares, snore, toostupid, bababababat, plz, whee, lol, ittts, gates, potato, pissed, evil, ohmy, cancer, theplan, …

allquixotic

my favorite is of course

!!bababababat

ChatBot John Cavil

Julius

!!zalgo

ChatBot John Cavil

@Julius /<([a-z]+) [^\/]?>/

Julius

ahahahah

allquixotic

2:04 AM

!!zalgo THE JULIUS IS NIGH

ChatBot John Cavil

Server error (status 500) occured (message probably too long)

allquixotic

bleh.

!!zalgo TEST

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic T̯͉̘̻̹̲͖͓͙̹͋͆̈́̌̅̎̄̉ͯ̿̄͐̽͗̀ͯ͆̊ͨ́͘Ẻ̸̢̀̒͌̍̾̑͑ͥ͋̈͊ͮͣ̀͏͖̮̤̣̯͕̥͔̩̥̤̲̳̣̤̥͝S̓̈́̉̅̅̂̎ͧ̍̐̂‌̶̶̣̰͍͕̻̟͗ͫ͌̀͞͠T̵̵͗̑ͣ̏̀̾̄͛͐̐̓̔ͩ͒̾́̏̓́͢҉̮̭͚͚͚͚̬͎͙̯͚̪̖̱̫̦

allquixotic

there ya go

Julius

!!doge ?

ChatBot John Cavil

2:04 AM

       wow
such ?

Julius

!!doge help, listen, eval, coffee, refresh, forget, info, listcommands, tell, afk, awsm, ban, unban, color, convert, define, doge, domain, export, findcommand, forgetseen, github, google, hang, inhistory, import, jquery, learn, test, why, ok, hello, friday, after5, theanswer, caution, nicethings, europe, goaway, status, idk, thatword, poptart, routertroubleshooting, networkingproblem, meta, rlemon, no, foxno, yes, orlmente, fixit, uio, taytaytay, ping, maybe, say, facepalm, hv, ohhh
whocares, snore, toostupid, bababababat, plz, whee, lol, ittts, gates, potato, pissed, evil, ohmy, cancer, th…

allquixotic

!!tell 15024038 help doge

ChatBot John Cavil

@Julius doge: so shibe, much doge, wow `/doge one,two,three[,nth]

allquixotic

!!doge julius,lobster,netmask,canada,exam

ChatBot John Cavil

   wow
                           very julius
such lobster
              so netmask
                      many canada
much exam

Julius

2:06 AM

!!europe

ChatBot John Cavil

@Julius static.fjcdn.com/pictures/…

hahaha

!!cancer

!!forget europe

2:06 AM

@allquixotic Command europe forgotten.

allquixotic

!!learn europe '<>http://i.stack.imgur.com/pBLFE.jpg'

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic Command europe learned

!!lol

!!europe

2:07 AM

there we go

!!doge wow

         wow
so wow

Julius

alright this was swell. I need to go back to studying though

allquixotic

alright. stop in once in a while ;p

Julius

2:08 AM

have a good one quixotic, see ya! and bye fox !

allquixotic

o/

Julius

sure!

allquixotic

@Bob I wonder how much JDK8 Lambdas will close the gap on our shared "heartache for C# features while adventuring in Java-land"

judging from the rest of JDK8, probably not a whole lot

Bob

@allquixotic I still need my extension methods.

So many times, I could have used a .Where but was forced to use a loop and second array/list :\

allquixotic

@Bob Where is useful, but I've also had occasion to use Select and SelectMany in Java

SelectMany is pretty annoying to implement manually with a loop

I think I've used 8 or 9 of the available System.Linq.Enumerable extension methods built into the framework

also, GenericClass<Huge,GenericTypeDeclarator<Blah,Blah>> someVariable = new AllThatShitAgain<Etc,Etc>(); vs. var someVariable = new SuperSimple<T,U>();

Bob

2:24 AM

@allquixotic Well, Java has some screwy declaration for generics, too.

e.g. Map<Foo, Bar> baz = new HashMap<>();

The "diamond operator".

Except I'm forced to use jdk1.6, and that was introduced in 1.7.

allquixotic

lol i forgot about that operator

i'm targeting jdk 1.7 so i'll use that now

Bob

2:40 AM

@allquixotic NetBeans kept reminding me about it :P

Braiam

3:01 AM

@OliverSalzburg you are using ant for userscripts only, no full fledged chrome extensions right?

HackToHell

3:19 AM

And apparently to get proper sound in ubuntu I have to use ALSA instead of Gstreamer

allquixotic

@HackToHell er....

that's like saying "in order to get proper motion for my car I have to use wheels instead of an engine"

ALSA and Gstreamer are at different levels of the sound stack

they provide fundamentally different functions

HackToHell

Oh, I was merely saying what someone posted in a forum

allquixotic

well whoever that "someone" is, is clueless and has no idea what they're talking about

ALSA is split up into two parts: the userspace (alsa-lib), and the kernel module(s) (alsa-kernel). unless you're using 4Front Technologies' OSS4 (highly un-recommended; it's terrible), you will always use alsa-kernel to get sound on GNU/Linux, no matter what, period.

alsa-lib is also pretty much mandatory to send and receive the correct data to and from the kernel; it's the lowest-level userspace part of the sound stack

Braiam

@HackToHell that's a very old post, Ubuntu since long time use pulse end-to-end

allquixotic

on top of that, on modern Linux distros (since like 2008), you have pulseaudio, which does software mixing, volume control, stream routing (managing multiple sound devices and moving an app's playback from one sound device to another), etc.

Braiam

3:26 AM

I think that if I remove alsa from debian I still have sound

allquixotic

on top of pulseaudio, you would finally have gstreamer come into the picture. gstreamer is a library primarily used for decoding audio and video and playing it back through some backend

Braiam

aptitude why alsa
Unable to find a reason to install alsa.

heh

allquixotic

so for an app like Rhythmbox, your sound stack would go: Rhythmbox -> gstreamer decodes MP3 and connects to pulseaudio -> pulseaudio mixes raw PCM data and sends to ALSA-lib -> alsa-lib takes PCM data and pushes it to the kernel driver -> kernel driver interfaces with sound hardware

if you aren't getting "proper sound", the steps to fix it would highly depend on which application you're having trouble with, but trying to use ALSA "instead of" gstreamer is to misunderstand how the sound stack works

Braiam

@allquixotic pulse now talks to the kernel and alsa is just a fallback for old apps tho

allquixotic

@Braiam that's incorrect.

pulseaudio does not directly interface with the kernel. pulseaudio links against libasound2, which is the ALSA library.

HackToHell

3:28 AM

Playback is from spotify

allquixotic

@HackToHell isn't the Spotify app on Linux just a wine bundle of the Windows version?

HackToHell

Nope, there's a native linux version

Braiam

@allquixotic FYI, I don't have alsa installed ;)

 dpkg -l alsa
Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name           Version      Architecture Description
+++-==============-============-============-=================================
un  alsa           <none>       <none>       (no description available)

allquixotic

@Braiam yes, yes you do. find /usr/lib -name libasound2\*

Braiam

@allquixotic nope

➜  ~  find /usr/lib -name libasound2\*
➜  ~

HackToHell

3:30 AM

Sound is a lot better now :D

allquixotic

@Braiam I find that extremely hard to believe. oh, wait, multi-arch

find /usr -name libasound\*

Braiam

only docs

wait

arg /usr is too big!

ok found /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libasound.so

allquixotic

@Braiam on my server, /usr/lib/pulse-4.0/modules/module-alsa-sink.so is linked to /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libasound.so.2

just as it should be. I told you, having pulseaudio bypass the alsa library layer and interfacing directly with the kernel is bullshit. no idea where you heard that.

trust me, I studied and hacked on the audio stack of Linux for years, I know what I'm talking about.

alsa-lib does too much for pulseaudio to try and replicate all of it

it's not just a simple passthrough to the kernel, there is actual functionality in alsa-lib

and pulseaudio team has spent years trying to improve alsa-lib (as well as the alsa kernel modules) to make it work well with pulseaudio

HackToHell

Aha so I switched from OSS to ALSA

So gstreamer is at the library layer ?

allquixotic

@HackToHell yup

Braiam

3:40 AM

@HackToHell yeah

allquixotic

although there's also gst-launch which is an application that's a (very) think wrapper around gstreamer that lets you run arbitrary pipelines

Braiam

@HackToHell why the heck you had OSS, through?

allquixotic

@HackToHell unless you're using an unmaintained program that was last released from 2007 or earlier, you should never be using OSS... for anything... ever...

Braiam

@allquixotic so, who should I blame that my rear and headphones output are synced?

pulse?

allquixotic

@Braiam meaning your rear speakers and headphones both output the same sound at the same time?

Braiam

3:41 AM

yeah

allquixotic

hmm... that could be pulseaudio, but it could also be a pinout problem with the alsa library

Braiam

you know how to check? pactl/pacmd outputs looks alien to me

allquixotic

actually, plugging in headphones should cause all the speakers to be muted... jack detection

failed jack detection = alsa problem

well, here's an easy way to test: remove pulseaudio from the equation entirely

Braiam

and use alsamixer?

HackToHell

@Braiam I don't know :O

allquixotic

3:45 AM

as root: killall pulseaudio; mv /usr/bin/pulseaudio /usr/bin/pulseaudio-stopit then try here

or instead of that mv: chmod a-x /usr/bin/pulseaudio

you might also have the speaker-utils program that can make things easier than using aplay

Bob

@HackToHell library... layer... o.O

HackToHell

@Bob Wikipedia, not me :P

Bob

@allquixotic sometimes, it's actually done by the hardware

haven't seen that in a while though

allquixotic

btw, that image above is not too bad, except that it glosses over the fact that there's a userspace library between pulseaudio's alsa sink and the kernel

@Bob what's "done by the hardware"? the thing where the headphones and rear speakers are both getting the same sound?

that would be a very odd sound card (or mixer) indeed

99% of the time, when someone plugs in headphones, they don't want the speakers to play anything

Bob

@allquixotic yup. I've seen that once on a standard computer

Braiam

3:49 AM

> 2002

Bob

though, it's more common when you aren't using front ports

Braiam

I think

allquixotic

your sound card is from 2002? wow.

probably early generation HDA codec

Bob

heh

I have this really dodgy old machine, running XP, with a mobo from an unknown manufacturer

no audio header on the mobo o.O

Braiam

HDA Intel, ALC880 Analog

Bob

3:51 AM

There's no way for software to even tell there's headphones plugged in

allquixotic

from reading the alsa mailing lists for years, I'm pretty sure that the text "ALC880" makes certain ALSA developers' blood pressure rise just by reading it

Bob

unless you plugged them into the CD drive (!) (wait, does it even work that way? haven't ever tried that)

allquixotic

@Bob jack detection -- unless you're talking about that old computer

Bob

@allquixotic yes, the one without an independent audio header

someone plugged a y-splitter into the rear port and connected that to the front panel

shrug

wasn't me

@allquixotic Do you know if AC'97 has jack detection? page 21 formfactors.org/developer/specs/A2928604-005.pdf