to make it "non" opinion based.. plz...

or was it a really very bad question? I'm just curious...

@servantofWiser Perhaps you should first review some of these questions: christianity.stackexchange.com/search?q=apostle as many of them have a direct bearing on where your question was headed.

yeah that was a good one.. :)

@servantofWiser In my opinion, it is a bad question as it starts out with a false assumption - ie. that Christians follow the apostles 'blindly'. In general, this is not the case - Christians followed the teaching and example of the apostles because they were consistent with the teachings of Jesus, the Old Testament and because their lives demonstrated that God was with them.

hmmmm.. !!!

also wanted to know which verses tell us that Jesus ..

To get things out of the realm of "primarily opinion based", you'll most likely need to focus on a particular denomination's teaching about the issue and ask a focused question about it.

consecrated the discples

They were 'consecrated' in different ways at different times (initial individual calling, designating the twelve, 1st sending out with authority over sickness and evil spirits, various specific commands to them at various stages, impartation and commissioning post-resurrection, out-pouring of the Holy Spirit etc.), is there a particular aspect of that process you're interested in?

OK OK..

so everything happened after the resurrection ryt?

no, a lot happened prior to that time as well

not before when he was present with them..

yeah so something which talk about during his time...

this happened well before the resurrection: biblestudytools.com/matthew/10-1-compare.html

good. :)

yeah Mat 10 is good.. :)

1 more interesting question....

if you remove this teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com from NT....

now NT has only words of disciples ryt...

now NT vs OT which is more important?

@bruisedreed

The whole point of the NT is revealing Christ and his work (including his work through his Church), so it doesn't make sense to remove his words and to ask such a question.

You seem to be laboring under the impression that an apostle is somehow less than an Old Testament prophet. This is not the case - Jesus explicitly said otherwise.

OK so in short, Apostles are greater than old testament prophets ryt?

It seems like you somehow want to reconcile Islamic doctrine with the words of Christ in the gospels to validate the claim that he is accepted as a prophet as anything other than meaningless gibberish. The problem is, you can't actually do that honestly, because Jesus explicitly taught many things that contradict Islamic doctrine.

@servantofWiser In a certain sense they are (certainly in terms of the revelation they received and the authority they were given). In a different sense, all are equal in God's sight.

OK. I get that. :)

The thing is @bruisedreed I give weight to OT as equal to this teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com and ....both almost 99.9% comply to Islam, except for NT - teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com... So was just curious as to how the apostles are viewed by u, and how much weight is given to them... and how do you justify it.. I got that. :)

it was nice talking to u.. have a nice day. :)

peace!

To think that teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com complies 99.9% with Islam is a very interesting statement, I'm wondering how you can justify it. Do you know how many times Jesus speaks of God as his Father in that text for instance?

yeah

@servantofWiser Likewise - peace, and may God bless you.

the creator is our father... what is wrong with that?

but not only Jesus' father.. .:)

bye

@servantofWiser I don't think it is wrong to say that, although there is clearly a disctinction between 'Creator' and 'Father' - we can certainly use the latter to speak metaphorically of the former. When Jesus described himself as "the only begotten son", this of course gives things a very different sense - it is no longer a metaphor that is applicable to all created beings. This is what is called shirk in Islam I believe.

You might say that that one verse is part of the 0.1% you find inconsistent with Islam, the problem is that there are many other verses where Jesus makes a distinction between the type of relationship he has with God and the type of relationship others have with God - he is not using 'Father' metaphorically in these places either - eg: biblegateway.com/quicksearch/…

@servantofWiser Why do you want to focus on that page when it's just quoting whole chapters from the gospels?

@servantofWiser Do you trust this page when it says that Jesus said he was going to be killed?

teachingsofjesus-inhiswords.com/In_His_Words/JW_page22.htm

@servantofWiser Saying Islamic doctrine lines up 99.9% with the Old Testament is total balderdash. It's a made up number and bears no resemblance to the actual similarities or differences in their teachings. If you got that number from somewhere you should find new sources. If you made it up yourself you should actually read the OT along with some good commentary, then do your comparison again.

...because making that statement makes you sound ignorant in the way that saying "this grapefuit is 99.9% like this soccer ball". Sure they are both roundish and have smooth outer skins, but they are fundamentally different items and any resemblance is cursory. Try eating the soccer ball for breakfast and see how the grapefruit holds up being kicked around in a league match then check your math.

@servantofWiser In general, it is ok in chat, but not through trading comments on the main Q&A site. This room: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/21614/apologetics-n-paraphernalia was set up for that particular purpose.

@servantofWiser Small amounts are allowed if everybody is agreeable, but for anything lengthy there is actually a special purpose room that would be better.

good, I request u 2 move this to that room if you feel its getting lengthy.. :)

You're welcome to say something in there and I'll read it when I get a chance, but I'll warn you I'm not likely to engage in a debate unless you're willing to actually go read things and base your feedback on those things and not absurdly groundless polemics.

heheh OK. :)

Grrr!

GRRR!

<h1>GRRR!</h1>

GRRRRRRR! I don't know what we're growling about, but everyone's doing it so I'd better join in.

@BruceAlderman Good to see you on the bandwagon, sir!