The Upper Room

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1:24 AM

I am not sure if the following question would be appropriate on here, but why do Protestant worship services have to last one hour?

And why are Protestant liturgies called "worship services"?

curiousdannii

2:07 AM

@Anonymous What? Lots (most?) go for times longer than an hour.

curiousdannii

2:20 AM

@Anonymous That would make a decent question. (And some protestants dislike that name.)

Elisha and his Brethren

3:20 AM

Q: How old were Joseph & Mary when they marrried?

A nun in my Catholic school taught us that Mary was 14 and Joseph was 17 and this was not atypical for the day. Also that in Josephs case his Marriage to Marry was his second. Would there be any ancient text at all relating to Josephs first wife (the presumed mother of Jude)?

Paul Vargas

3:54 AM

@Flimzy (1) Yes. (2) For the moment, I have no information to confirm such speculation. Do you have something?

@Flimzy How do you interpret this verse: 2 Peter 1:19?

Bruce Alderman

@PaulVargas Take a look at 2 Thessalonians 2:15: "So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by our letter." Paul puts the oral tradition on par with his letter.

In 2 Timothy 3:14 Paul says that a teaching's trustworthiness is based on who taught it, not whether it was written or spoken.

And if you search the New Testament for the phrase "word of God", you'll find that in the majority of cases, it refers to the spoken word, not the written word.

@PaulVargas How do you interpret 2 Peter 1:19? Because if a prophetic message is reliable, and it's repeated, it's an oral tradition.

Paul Vargas

4:14 AM

@BruceAlderman Interesting verse. And interesting interpretation.

fredsbend

4:52 AM

@ElishaandhisBrethren @Caleb Clever name. Did you think of one for Hindu or Islam?

@Anonymous Protestants like to keep it simple. A thing that Luther started and it has stuck ever since.

Paul Vargas

5:12 AM

@BruceAlderman What kind of revelation are you referring?

Bruce Alderman

5:40 AM

In principle, God can reveal anything he wants, in any manner he wants.

3 hours later…

Chris's sis

8:32 AM

Greetings

@Caleb last days I buried the being I loved at most, a very special young dog, it was the light of my life, my happiness, but she died, he suffered a lot, she had a short life. I prayed for her, but guess what? After the pray she passed away. At the place where I buried the dog I also buried my last drop of faith. Now I'm sure God doesn't exist.

I would have done any sacrifice to get my dog back, but that was impossible. I would have even given up some years of my life for her.

I only hope the science will advance fast enough and in the near future for less money one might be able to clone one's dog. Maybe it's not a solution, but it might relieve your pain.

Many things will be possible in the future, but now I cannot take benefit of them only because I don't live in that period of time.

@Caleb one day the humanity will populate the whole universe, the immortality will be also possible. Things will be so advanced that men will consider a great priviledge the possibility to die.

Have you ever seen Transformers? That thing will be very closed to reality, the robots will be all over the universe, and explore billions of planets.

Did you see avatar? In the future, it will be able also possible to use another "platform" for our minds, one that could resist, it will be a mix of biology and technology.

No one should accept that things happen just because they are written that way to happen somewhere in the book of the heaven or whatever.

We are obliged to change all things that steal our happiness, to improve our lives, why to live 100 years and 1000 years? Nothing can stop us to change everything and make our lives happier, we only need to believe in science, to work for it and bring our contribution there.

From all I said above, there is one thing that ought to be memorable: things can be changed, things can be improved, break the limits, go beyond all the others dared to go before us.

No one and nothing can stop us.

1 hour later…

Flimzy

10:06 AM

@PaulVargas First, God is omnipotent. That means he can reveal himself however he wishes, it's not speculation. Second, the vast majority of people who have come to faith in Christ have done so through oral tradition. It's a very small minority who come to faith only by reading the Bible directly.

3 hours later…

Paul Vargas

12:52 PM

@Flimzy Humm ... What do you mean when you say oral tradition?

Paul Vargas

1:22 PM

Oral tradition

Oral tradition and oral lore is cultural material and tradition transmitted orally from one generation to another. The messages or testimony are verbally transmitted in speech or song and may take the form, for example, of folktales, sayings, ballads, songs, or chants. In this way, it is possible for a society to transmit oral history, oral literature, oral law and other knowledges across generations without a writing system. A narrower definition of oral tradition is sometimes appropriate. Sociologists might also emphasize a requirement that the material is held in common by a group of people...

^^^ "transmitted orally from one generation to another" or "knowledges across generations without a writing system"

Zoe

2:02 PM

@PaulVargas I believe that the account of Genesis was a type of Oral Tradition before it was written by Moses.

Paul Vargas

2:12 PM

@Zoe It is said that there were many different stories about it, some of which have reached our days.

2 hours later…

Flimzy

4:03 PM

@PaulVargas I mean that even our modern re-telling of the gospel includes aspects of oral tradition. And certainly it did before the gospels were written down.

@PaulVargas: I think the burden of proof is on the one who claims God cannot (or does not) use oral tradition to reveal himself.

baeltazor

hi all :)

does anyone know of any good Christian rock/heavy metal music?

Zoe

4:18 PM

@baeltazor Does Skillet count? Or, you could listen to some of Chris Tomlin's songs.

►

@baeltazor Whom Shall I Fear (God of Angel Armies) - Chris Tomlin

Paul Vargas

4:34 PM

@Flimzy How you say that in Spanish?

baeltazor

Oh thanks @Zoe I haven't heard of Skillet before. I just listened to the video you linked to. I like it :)

Flimzy

@baeltazor I think that's an oxymoron

baeltazor

Zoe

@Flimzy I think Christian rock is still ok. Heavy metal though..... I don't think it's a good idea for Christian music.

Flimzy

@Zoe I don't think it's a problem, in any sort of categorical sense. It just hasn't been done (well) before.

baeltazor

4:36 PM

@Zoe what I mean by Christian rock is, same sounding instruments played the same way but with good Christian lyrics and messages

Flimzy

Christian rap is pretty bad, too.

Zoe

Most contemporary Christian music is moderately fast paced with drums and catchy choruses, those are what I would count as alternative rock.

@Flimzy ikr. I shudder at the kind of lyrics being screamed though!

Flimzy

@Zoe: POD screams pretty well :)

Disturbed does, too... but they're not Christian at all

Zoe

@Flimzy I like Chester Bennington of Linkin Park :)

@baeltazor Rock is fine, heavy metal is a big no no, it's hard to do well in that. I could link you more songs that I personally like. Since I like Linkin Park, the kind of songs that I listen to you would like as well, I think. I do like some acoustics though, when they are done exceptionally well.