The Upper Room

12:08 AM

@fredsbend The scripture indicates that Satan was not actually sure of that. More to the point, due to laying aside (aspects of) his divine nature (the kenosis), Jesus was vulnerable to temptation. I think what you're missing here is that the primary temptation wasn't a usurpation of his appetites, but an attack on his identity to fuel doubt in himself, his role and his mission.

El'endia Starman

@IsaacMoses @fredsbend: In a similar vein to this idea expressed by Isaac:

7

Q: Is it appropriate for a Gentile to attend and/or participate in a Seder?

The context: last year, I saw this sign that announced the time and place that a Jewish Seder (probably Yom Kippur) would happen. I was definitely curious and considered going and at least observing because as a Christian, my religion has Jewish roots. I ended up not going, mostly out of laziness...

+7/-0

TRiG

12:30 AM

5

fredsbend the Grinch

12:45 AM

@TRiG That is the funniest thing I've seen in a very long time! I want to put it on a shirt or something.

It's real too! I just tried it.

TRiG

@fredsbendtheGrinch I see it in a slightly different order: islam, judaism, pdf, catholicism.

fredsbend the Grinch

I know the great and powerful Google does nothing at random. There must be some purpose.

You think it might be your location?

Ireland is like 80% Catholic, right?

Not too many convert because they already are.

Apparently the Irish have more trouble converting to PDF than to Catholic.

Wait a minute ... That's a joke for the next time a muslim tries to convert me.

I'll just say "You have a better chance of converting me to PDF than to Islam."

curiousdannii

1:07 AM

@fredsbendtheGrinch What a rubbish answer. I just commented noting that it completely ignores the possibility that Michael might be a human (which is obviously what the Christians who believe it think)

@fredsbendtheGrinch Maybe you could ask a followup question for the basis of their belief that Michael is non-human ;)

My one question on Judaism hasn't been answered either, but it's more academic perhaps.

fredsbend the Grinch

@curiousdannii Yeah. I kind of have the feeling that the community is far more interested in modern Jewish living than anything else.

curiousdannii

Michael is only mentioned in the OT three times (all in Daniel). In those verses it simply calls him a 'prince'. Which is very similar to the prince in Ezekiel, which is also possibily messianic. I'm interested in this now, so I might ask why he can't be a human myself

fredsbend the Grinch

I was just surprised when they basically said they only really want to discuss rabbinical judaism (mainstream).

@curiousdannii Did you see this one: christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/18465/…

curiousdannii

Probably the answer will be that a text which Christians ignore says that Michael's an angel angel

fredsbend the Grinch

When researching I was so surprised that a Reformer was talking about it (Calvin).

@curiousdannii I think Tobit, which is in the Catholic Bible, calls him and Raphael arch-angels.

You don't have to go to J.SE for that question.

curiousdannii

1:17 AM

@fredsbendtheGrinch ah, but how do we know that arch-messengers can't be human ;)

@fredsbendtheGrinch I did. It's a great answer! Originally I thought the whole idea was nonsense, but I'm more open to it now. I still think it's unlikely because I can't make the idea fit with Jude though.

fredsbend the Grinch

I think the context in Daniel shows that Michael is more than human.

@curiousdannii What in Jude are you referring to?

Which largely quotes Enoch, right?

curiousdannii

Jude 9 says that Michael refused to rebuke Satan, which wouldn't make much sense if Michael was God.

fredsbend the Grinch

@curiousdannii Yeah, It gets a bad rap for being a JW only belief, but that's just not true.

@curiousdannii That's right. I always forget where that verse is.

I really don't see a problem with it. Jesus often refers to the Father's will.

Maybe the problem is the Trinity ;)

That's what JW's say anyway.

curiousdannii

But not the SDAs

If I ever find a pre-calvin reference I'll make sure I tell you

fredsbend the Grinch

Yes, the SDA's are Trinitarian. They mostly just brush it off like I just did.

@curiousdannii I might get giddy like a girl. What's weird is Calvin's tone around the issue. He just seems so careful to talk about it.

But like I said in the post, they were still burning heretics back then.

I believe Calvin himself had a pretty oppressive Church-state set up for a while.

curiousdannii

1:23 AM

I haven't read too much calvin yet, but he can be odd how he relates to others. He can be really scathing or just dismissive

fredsbend the Grinch

At least there were pretty harsh punishments, like whippings and such.

@curiousdannii Right. But on this one issue he kind of dances around it.

Almost like he found it convincing, but just couldn't believe it to be true.

curiousdannii

The sympathetic side of me likes to think that calvin was coerced into the theocracy they set up, but I don't know how true that is

fredsbend the Grinch

I don't know what that's supposed to mean. lol.

curiousdannii

I mean that how I hope it was is that the town council was like "we're no longer catholic, yay! But we still need to have a state church. Hey Calvin, we know you'd rather just be teaching and preaching, but you have to now come tell us who the heretics are so that we can execute them."

Mi Yodeya is really eye opening to me, because of how little similarities I can see between it and the Tanakh.

fredsbend the Grinch

1:44 AM

@curiousdannii I honestly couldn't tell you. I didn't read that about Calvin. I heard it directly from the Historical Theology Professor when I was in Bible School. So it's a reliable source, but it was like 8 or 9 years ago.

@curiousdannii I don't understand this message either. double lol.

I though Tanakh was basically synonymous with Canon.

curiousdannii

@fredsbendtheGrinch The Tanakh is the Old Testament. Christians get taught stuff about the religion of the Israelites in the Old and New Testament times, but it seems very different from modern Judaism.

But to be fair, the same could be said about a lot of Christian denominations!

fredsbend the Grinch

@curiousdannii Every religion sees the others through their own lens.

I thought Judaism was pretty fractured throughout history. Including the mystic (crazy) side called Kabbalah.

I'm still surprised that the J.SE doesn't want to discuss those topics.

Comment on a different question, but explains why the site doesn't excite me:

@Dan Well, as a non-regular I respect your current guidelines, but I must say I'm disappointed. I generally take a meta approach to everything, so having such a strict scope on questions does little to excite me. — fredsbend 23 mins ago

fredsbend the Grinch

2:17 AM

@curiousdannii In general, I agree. I think Rabbinical Judaism is probably very different than ancient Judaism of the 1st century and earlier.

I must confess a high degree of ignorance on modern forms of Judaism, though.

I still remember the first legit Jews I ever met. I was so surprised at how they were not what I expected (which is what I was taught as a Christian in Sunday School as a child and Bible School as an adult).

El'endia Starman

3:52 AM

@TRiG I got something completely different.

fredsbend the Grinch

4:26 AM

@Caleb This one just ended up in the low quality review queue. christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/263/…

Was it recently downvoted?

[We talked about old posts ending up in the review queue in the past if you recall]

> How do I convert

vs.

> How do I convert to

El'endia Starman

5:14 AM

@fredsbendtheGrinch Ah-ha. That was it. I got the same thing as the original picture.

"How do I convert to c" gives me amusing results.

fredsbend the Grinch

@El'endiaStarman You think he was trolling? christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/35570/…

Did you delete or Caleb?

@El'endiaStarman You know what's great about these things is that Google tells us these are derived from what people have searched previously.

I watched a TED talk that discussed using this data to get an idea of what society thinks and feels about touchy subjects.

Basically, it worked on the premise that people will ask Google something they would never even talk about to their friends.

Google, and the internet at large, has enabled us to be completely transparent without suffering undue judgements and societal backlash.

In the past, I've used it for SEO.

For example, I know I want to target the word video, but that by itself is not useful and much too broad. So I'll type video and then go down the alphabet to see what is suggested and pick ones that match what I'm going for.

It's worked pretty well in the past.

I was part of one of those fruit juice MLM's a few years ago, and I was able to target every existing extension of the juice name (juice name ingredients, juice name vs competitor). I built an entire website off of the words that google suggested. After about 10 days of taking it life and asking google to index it, I was in the top three for every result except two.

And I still didn't make any money!

Long story short, MLM's will almost never make you any money despite how smart you work.

Is there a name for when your story ending is so different from the beginning that it is impossible to tell they are connected though a long string of related thoughts?

2

fredsbend the Grinch

5:43 AM

DIFFERENT TOPIC:

I don't usually like to point out specific users, but I notice that this user very often answers off-topic questions. christianity.stackexchange.com/a/35572/3961

I'm not sure how to approach that because he does usually answer well.

Caleb

6:47 AM

@fredsbendtheGrinch there was just recently another (non) answer to that question (now deleted). I assume the home page bump triggered more eyes on the problem and votes and flags.

@fredsbendtheGrinch That was self deleted.

Matt Gutting

2:18 PM

@fredsbendtheGrinch The Grinch? Are you really a three-decker sauerkraut and toadstool sandwich? With arsenic sauce?

fredsbend the Grinch

3:31 PM

@Caleb You can always respect that.

Nice new pic by the way. That's an envy-worthy mane you've got there.

fredsbend the Grinch

3:49 PM

@MattGutting More like a bad banana with a greasy black peel.

Yep. Definitely more like that. Your statement is all hyperbole.

I only need one more vote for a hat:

6

A: Is there a particular order in lighting candles on an advent wreath?

The advent wreath is an evergreen wreath with four candles. One is rose (pink) and the other three are purple. Before lighting any candles on the wreath you should bless the wreath on the first Sunday of Advent. Make the Sign of the Cross 1 The Father or head of the household then prays "Our h...

Ahem! Hint

You know, if you think it's worth it. I'm not pressuring you or anything.

Caleb

@fredsbendtheGrinch Thanks. It's been that way for a while but my avatar was pretty old. I decided to update it because I needed something that fit into more of the hats!

fredsbend the Grinch

@Caleb That's why I changed my avatar last year.

Do you keep the beard entirely for personal preference?

Caleb

@fredsbendtheGrinch Yes.

wax eagle

pretty sure at this point I'd feel naked w/o my beard

fredsbend the Grinch

@Caleb So I'm 95 flags from the Marshal badge, which would earn me a pretty, new hat too. Any suggestions on what to flag? @waxeagle

wax eagle

4:02 PM

@fredsbendtheGrinch all the things?

Caleb

@fredsbendtheGrinch Go back about a year ago in the question list and look for obsolete comments.

fredsbend the Grinch

Okay. That's easy.

Caleb

Note that you only get one flag per post no matter how many flags you flag under it.

I think anyway.

fredsbend the Grinch

@Caleb That is very good information to have.

wax eagle

are comment flags considered helpful?

Caleb

4:04 PM

At least for mod flag handling that's how it's counted, not sure about the user flag count.

Matt Gutting

@fredsbendtheGrinch * tries to imagine a hypobolic, or perhaps epibolic, statement *

Caleb

@waxeagle I think so. At the rate of a max 1 per post.

wax eagle

gotcha

@MattGutting don't lose sight of parabolic statements either

Caleb

We'll figure it out soon enough if @fredsbendtheGrinch's count doesn't go up.

wax eagle

truth

Matt Gutting

4:05 PM

@waxeagle Those (and the metabolic statements) are too easy (two easy?)

fredsbend the Grinch

@waxeagle and @Caleb This question I have five flags all marked helpful.

Seems to indicate that you get credit for all the flags.

Sorry, it's four, not five.

Caleb

@fredsbendtheGrinch They show up as "marked helpful" in the sidebar, but I'm don't think they count towards the master total. Leastways when I checked the math I figured they couldn't be.

fredsbend the Grinch

@Caleb Okay. I'll maximize the effort anyway. More comments flagged is good for everyone.

@MattGutting Joke, right?

> hyperbole - exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

Matt Gutting

@fredsbendtheGrinch Even so. Indeed. Verily. :-P

fredsbend the Grinch

Amen

Matt Gutting

4:09 PM

@fredsbendtheGrinch Doubtless.

Soothly.

fredsbend the Grinch

Indubitably

Caleb

"too chatty" is also a pretty good target to look for. There are comments all over the place just shooting the breeze or going on about random theological topics that aren't even in posts.

Matt Gutting

@fredsbendtheGrinch It goes without saying.

Caleb

I takes a bit of reading but it's shouldn't be hard to find things to flag.

fredsbend the Grinch

quite

@Caleb You got it boss.

Matt Gutting

4:11 PM

How long can we stretch this out? :-)

LCIII

combo breaker

this is actually very important to me

0

Q: Did Jesus read minds or perceive them?

In this passage, most English translations say "knowing their thoughts". In the footnote it says "perceiving" their thoughts. I feel like this is a pretty monumental difference as perceiving thoughts is something anyone can do but knowing thoughts, in the sense of reading someone's mind, is a pur...

jesus word-study

Matt Gutting

@LCIII Hm. That's a good one.

LCIII

If we're to be like Jesus, then we are to judge like him too. If he judged from a purely human perspective ("...perceived their thoughts...") then how was he so confident? If he judged from a divine perspective ("...knowing their thoughts..."), how are we supposed to emulate that?

Matt Gutting

My (NAB) translation says, "Jesus knew what they were thinking"; which doesn't seem to lean too far one way or another. But we often use phrases like "I know what you're thinking"; I wonder if you're overthinking this difference?

fredsbend the Grinch

@MattGutting Till we beat it to death

Matt Gutting

4:14 PM

@fredsbendtheGrinch Or put it out of its misery?

fredsbend the Grinch

At least until we're sick and tired of it.

@waxeagle tisk tisk I accidentally flagged as obsolete, but you still know what you did.

Matt Gutting

@fredsbendtheGrinch I may stop, because I am feeling a bit sick and a bit tired, though not of it per se.

fredsbend the Grinch

I can live with that.

LCIII

@MattGutting I keep forgetting you're catholic. Not that it matters--but it keeps surprising me each time and you'd think I'd remember by now.

@fredsbendtheGrinch I wouldn't touch you with a 39 and a half foot pooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooole

da NANA da NAH. NAH. da NANA da NAAHHH

fredsbend the Grinch

@Caleb It seems to count them toward the grand total. I have 409 total flags now.

@LCIII Ahh, a master of singing like Batman, I see.

Caleb

4:21 PM

@fredsbendtheGrinch Well then, knock yourself out. As long as the flags actually make sense I don't have a problem going through a bunch of them.

fredsbend the Grinch

Cool. I've probably got a few more in me before I have to go.

Matt Gutting

@LCIII Perhaps (in the spirit of Fredsbend the Grinch) I should change to "Matt the Catholic" - or Matthaeus Catholicus - or something similar?

fredsbend the Grinch

@MattGutting Scared if you don't

Matt Gutting

@fredsbendtheGrinch Hmmm.... pondering...

fredsbend the Grinch

@Caleb Okay, I'm out. I think I flagged about 25 comments.

see you all later [meaning when I get to "work"]

Actually, it was 20 exactly.

Matt Gutting

4:36 PM

Actually I don't want to use "Catholicus" - sounds too much like a title.

Catholicos

Catholicos, plural Catholicoi, is a title used for the head of certain churches in some Eastern Christian traditions. The title implies autocephaly and in some cases is borne by the designated head of an autonomous church, in which case the holder might have other titles such as Patriarch. In other cases a catholicos heads a Particular Church and is subject to a patriarch or other church head. The word is a transliteration of the ancient Greek καθολικός, pl. καθολικοί, derived from καθ' ὅλου (kath'olou, "generally") from κατά (kata, "down") and ὅλος (holos, "whole"), meaning "concerning the whole...

LCIII

@MattGutting I could be Luis the Idiot

wax eagle

@fredsbendtheGrinch huh? I did nothing, I've been talking to my HR person for the last half hour or so

Caleb

@waxeagle I took care of it.

wax eagle

yeah I saw that, didn't want to out you if you didn't want to be :)

El'endia Starman

5:08 PM

@MattGutting You mean elliptic!

(Linguist vs. mathematician. Tehe.)

fredsbend the Grinch

5:31 PM

@MattGutting I think any thing Latin is pretty bad a--

Catholicus Primus

Catholicus Novus

Catholicus Ordo

That one might be Greek. You syncretist.

Catholicus Christmas

@fredsbendtheGrinch nm. It's Latin.

Catholicus Doctor

That has the unfortunate side effect of not sounding too Latin.

You could make it Doctorem, but I think that makes the declensions not match. idk, been 15 years since I studied Latin.

Yeah, that's about how I looked when I played football, er, I mean, handegg.

Does Elisha speak?

6:04 PM

0

Q: Is interpretation of Christian art on topic?

I found this Why is Jesus looking on an oddly standing stone? to be an interesting question, mostly because it raises an interesting question about what we do here. The title of the painting and the overall feel clearly implies that there is a Christian focus to it, but the following objection w...

discussion

TRiG

68

Q: What’s a “handegg”?

What’s a handegg? NOTE: This question is primarily related to the etymology of a compound noun which is not in The Dictionary. There is a hat this year called “Handegg”, given out for a posting that reaches a score of +7. But here’s the problem: the word handegg does not occur in the Oxford En...

etymology slang history connotation winterfest

Does Elisha speak?

6:28 PM

0

Q: Would it be constructive to make this answer community Wiki?

I'm considering making my answer to this question community wiki: "How long did it take to form the Biblical canon?" as it is a list answer that only really acts as a starting point to answering the question. I feel that the evolution of the Bible is important to understand and that this answer c...

discussion community-wiki

Matt Gutting

6:54 PM

@El'endiaStarman No, there's nothing that I leave out. :-P

Matt Gutting

7:11 PM

10

A: Why is water "the universal" solvent?

To directly address where the phrase comes from: Water is called the "universal solvent" because it dissolves more substances than any other liquid. -USGS What makes a great solvent? The strength of a solvent can be attributed to the strength of its intermolecular forces like london forces...

I just love that this post uses the word "solvation" :-D

Twice, even.

Elisha and his Brethren

7:26 PM

0

Q: The founder of christianity

When refering to the founder of christianity, is there anything wrong with a Jew saying "Jesus Christ"? Does halachah deal with this issue?

names christianity

2

fredsbend the Grinch

7:59 PM

His full name was Jesus H. Christ. — fredsbend 16 secs ago

2

Caleb

8:44 PM

@fredsbendtheGrinch Good question. That's a tricky one. Lets drop the issue of that user in particular, but the general problem is a pretty common one. We have quite a collection of users who's first instinct is to answer questions that are obvious candidates for closure. We even have a few that practically answer nothing else. The truth questions are basically the only ones that interest them.

In the case of the question you linked I think we can (Hanlon's razor and all) chalk up the answer to an assumption that it would be on topic. Honestly I think with a few minor edits it could be brought up to snuff. If it wasn't also likely to turn out a duplicate I might try.

So the fact that it got answered doesn't bother me. But the barrels of ones that really shouldn't be answered here that do anyway does bother me. And I think it perpetuates missunderstandings about the site.

Feel free to custom-flag answers on questions that have just been closed and where it should have been obvious they were going to be. We can approach people that do that regularly to try to get them on board with VtCing instread of answering.

We might already have a meta post about this somewhere. If not we should.

Does Elisha speak?

9:54 PM

1

Q: Would asking about Christian states be considered on topic?

It's Christmas time, and of course every Christmas there are always cases of people filing human rights disputes about "Separation of Religion and State" and not posting "Merry Christmas" signs and notices in public places. I was dwelling upon the paradox of the holiday season in Canada with Ca...

discussion allowed-questions

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