TRPG General Chat

Ben

12:00 AM

o/

Shalvenay

so, I read Angry's piece on traps

and it's great insofar as using traps as adversaries

but it seems to miss that not everything that uses the trap mechanics is an adversary to the party

BESW

D&D mechanics tend to be a weird mishmash of abstract psuedophysics models and narrowly pointed metanarrative devices.

That's where concepts like RAI come in, I think--often a mechanic doesn't work as a psuedophysics model because it's got a particular unstated narrative function it's designed to fill, so some speculation about the intent of the design becomes useful.

Shalvenay

@BESW yeah -- I agree there. There should be a DMG Rationale document :P

BESW

This is why Fate Core is so thick; a lot of its content is the why of the system.

Shalvenay

yeah

Ben

12:32 AM

Telstra.

On hold for 1.5 hrs.

"We're sorry we're taking so long to answer your call, if you want to jump the queue, jump online and figure it out yourself"

Shalvenay

ah, telecoms :/

Ben

I appreciate the thought. The issue is that I don't have an internet connection to start with.

BESW

The only reasonable response is to loop Telstar.

Ben

@BESW I think I've actually reached the dark depths of the hold queue. I haven't heard this hold music before

BESW

Urrgh. I got POM to run Thief. I got it to run Thief in fullscreen mode. I got it to run Thief in fullscreen mode with mouseclicks. But I can't get it to do mouse warping during gameplay AND not warp the mouse on interface screens.

Ben

12:48 AM

Quick question: I doubt anyone will know, but in reference to plugin development, has anyone heard of an .apd?

Miniman

@Ben Google thinks it's an Eclipse thing?

Ben

I think I found it... yeah. It's a descriptor file.

First I've heard of it :/

I just love the whole "you can write a plugin from scratch", we just won't tell you anything about the environment, requirements, or development process.

BESW

RANGER: I could track stuff. I AM a ranger. PALADIN: But you hate nature. RANGER: Hey! Don't assume! PALADIN: You TOLD me you hated nature.

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 23, 2017 at 12:37 AM

Ben

I played a druid that hated nature

BESW

RANGER: Not all of it. just..y'know... PALADIN: The outside bits? RANGER: Those, yeah. PALADIN: Track at will. RANGER: What do I roll again?

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 23, 2017 at 12:40 AM in reply to UrsulaV

Ben

12:58 AM

There was a lot of "ugh" going around

BESW

"There's a clearing up ahead." "Nothing good ever happens in clearings and I just want to turn around and go the other way." #dnd

Tweeted by RebelsHeart on May 23, 2017 at 12:37 AM

Ben

That is very true...

BESW

In D&D, nature is always either skippably boring or quite deadly.

Ben

Until you find a psychic moss that actually is quite happy just existing

No ulterior motives. Just "Oh hey Dave."

"Hey Bob. How's it going?"

"Yeah not too bad. It's a bit dry today isn't it?"

"Oh. Well if you want, you can grow into me, and I can share my water source with you."

[Grows together, and its consciousness transcends all moss understanding]

[Nearby druid]: "Eugh"

BESW

PALADIN: *rolls 48 on Insight check* GM: They're gonna cook you in a light broth. PALADIN: With a 48, I oughta know what spices they'll use!

Tweeted by UrsulaV on May 23, 2017 at 1:06 AM

Shalvenay

1:11 AM

hey there @GreySage

Ben

1:23 AM

So... 2.5 hours into my call, I've made it through the residential dept, the mobile dept, the consumer debt, and I need the business dept.

Shalvenay

@Ben but still not to tech support? :/

BESW

List of participants in the Museums for All initiative.

Ben

@Shalvenay well, yes I've been to the tech dept of all of these depts, just not the business tech dept. Lol

Shalvenay

@Ben WTF?

Ben

FINALLY

Adeptus

1:36 AM

@BESW Most Australian museums are free, I believe (except special-interest ones, eg railway museum)

Shalvenay

hey there @daze413

daze413

@Shalvenay heyy yo, what's up?

Shalvenay

not a whole lot, worked up another (much larger) dungeon, as for you?

daze413

@Shalvenay been busy with work, 3 projects I'm managing are all going live in the same week (this week), so it's a bit hectic. My DDnD games are going slow because of it.

Shalvenay

@daze413 ah.

got a 5e campaign hopefully starting up next month or so

(player side)

got a couple things I want to work out though if you have a moment to talk though?

daze413

1:56 AM

@Shalvenay homebrew? also, sure, what's that about? (Sorry if I randomly DC, internet's been wonky the past days)

Shalvenay

@daze413 the campaign is homebrew, yes

first one is a realization -- I abuse the trap mechanics -- and a question -- how much of a problem is abusing the trap mechanics for things that are activated surrepetitiously but not hazardous to PCs? (say, a trap that takes your picture when triggered ;) or unlocks a door, for that matter)

and the second one is a much deeper question -- how can I run courtroom story arcs centered around conflicting interpretations of law (vs conflicting evidence as to what happened) without putting folks to sleep?

Chemus

@Shalvenay I've always considered that this is what corporate law was about. That said, make it a rules lawyer dispute. Consider the nitpicking that happens in some rules debates and try to put that into your law-dispute.

Shalvenay

@Chemus that's an interesting spin on things, yes -- a lot of rules lawyering stems from poorly drafted RAW text, just like poorly drafted laws make for lots of real lawyering xD

Chemus

2:11 AM

Yup.

Plus, make the situation just not fit the existing law.

No amount of forethought can predict reality.

The real trick will be getting the PC interested, or better, invested in the proceedings, ofc.

daze413

On the first one, it doesnt sound so bad. I've always personally tried to communicate the danger as much as possible but for minor things like that, theres not so much to communicate.

On the second one, I have zero experience with courtly intrigue games so, yeah...

Shalvenay

@Chemus yeah -- that's part of the thing I'm setting up with the scenario I have in mind

@daze413 yeah -- my qualm with it is not a paranoid PC finding the trap (that's not a big deal) but a paranoid PC's player having a bad reaction to their character being told upon disarming the trap "Congratulations -- now, can you put the thing back together the way you found it?"

@daze413 part of the thing is I don't consider this "courtly intrigue" in what I'd consider the classical sense of the term. This is more of a "legal sausage machine" moment, deep in the nitty-gritty of legal debugging if you will ;)

daze413

It's tough to get PCs to have opinions about fictional law without kinda having them read all of the relevant laws you made up. And, if it's a dispute like the whole tax thing we did a few weeks ago, the PCs must be in a position to settle it or do something, at least. Otherwise, it'll just come off as random NPC arguing, and that is what makes it boring

@Shalvenay haha! That sounds awesome. Also, if a PC can figure out how to disarm it, wouldnt he/she be also in a position to figure out what it does?

Shalvenay

@daze413 they'd probably be able to figure out some of what it does but why would probably trip up the player

@Chemus yeah, I think that will be the trick indeed

Chemus

@daze413 put his finger on it; the PC's need to be able to affect the outcome in a visible fashion.

@Shalvenay Hell, make them the judges!

Shalvenay

2:22 AM

@Chemus yeah -- I think having the PCs argue one side of the case would be interesting enough for that?

@Chemus unlikely (for lots of reasons) but I do plan to spread the player involvement around at least some

daze413

To add to my message about the law topic: consider Firaga, he's a nobody and even if he did know things about the tax laws and would know how to settle it (however unlikely), would it be enough for some random adventurer to settle it when it's an issue best left up to supreme courts or something similar?

Shalvenay

@daze413 ...yeah. I'm going to have to gnaw on it some more.

speaking of campaign ideas ... another campaign seed I've been tinkering with lately is a hobgoblin army marching across a disaster-ravaged land on a relief mission

daze413

I think, if you want to make it a real issue where PCs want to be involved. It should be part of a greater issue that the PCs are trying to solve.

Shalvenay

@daze413 ooh -- I think that tying it in with the witch-hunter aspect would be good

Chemus

That's a really good point; why are the PCs in on the trial? Are they working on their own behalf, another party's, a City/Nation? How big is this dispute?

Shalvenay

2:25 AM

@Chemus they'd be representing a witch coven -- but it's the kind of dispute that could easily be certified as a big class action (with every grove, coven, and temple included in the plaintiff class)

the coven in question is merely the first bunch of folks to raise a stink

Chemus

Their own coven, one that they have ties to, or are they hired? If hired, does their rep hinge on this?

Shalvenay

@Chemus hired after a fashion -- it's a quest-of-sorts :)

Miniman

@Shalvenay Unless your players have made lawyer characters, why would they be representing and not hiring qualified representatives?

daze413

I.e. there's a clear goal at first (e.g. save the elven forest or something). And the law dispute is just an obstruction to the goal (e.g. the elven forest is titled under Lord Baron, which he legally got as a gift from the king) this way, the PCs are invested in anything that can dispute Lord Baron's claim

Chemus

What happens with a win/loss respectively?

Shalvenay

2:28 AM

@Chemus win is a major victory for the groves and covens -- pretty much eternal adoration from druids everywhere

@Miniman hiring counsel is an option -- at that point, I'd be giving players control of the hired chars

@Chemus loss is a serious setback, leaving groves and covens heavily taxed and crippling the ability of druids and witches to organize

Miniman

@Shalvenay Ok, so then wouldn't they just make the appropriate skill rolls and move on?

Shalvenay

@Miniman it'd also be a slower-moving thread than a single court scene -- I plan to incorporate elements of motion practice into it to keep the party burden from court appearances reasonable (considering court isn't a "show up once and you're done" sort of thing)

Chemus

Consider that the Players might not be on board with the ability for the religions to organize... they might sandbag :)

Shalvenay

@Chemus the PCs can side with the government if they choose, but it has consequences of its own.

Miniman

@Shalvenay My point is, you're rushing headlong towards one of roleplaying games' greatest traps. You're happy to allow a player character to use magic despite the player not being any good at magic, or let them bash through walls without the player being able to accomplish the same, but if your players are controlling professional lawyers, they shouldn't have to know anything about the laws they're arguing about.

> Preventing characters from using social skills just because the players aren't themselves masters of Charisma is not something I support.

Shalvenay

2:36 AM

let me put it this way: this isn't something that you can resolve with a single skill roll or even single contest. if you were to break down each motion and oral argument into skill rolls -- you'd probably have at least one CHA-based roll and one INT or WIS-based roll per oral argument or motion

Miniman

But you're expecting your players to come up with those arguments themselves?

Shalvenay

@Miniman I'm willing to let rolls at least somewhat guide it (a lot of it depends on how the players in question want to do it, if you ask me)

(my practice so far with pure social rolls is to basically use them as a reaction roll to what the player is having their PC say)

Chemus

@Shalvenay Umm, I think that @Miniman is really onto something: have each side present its case, then roll it off and be done. Unless everyone wants to play Ace [Lawyer Game Name Here]

Shalvenay

(but this is a bit different due to the need for informed argument when going into an appellate court environs.)

@Chemus yeah -- I guess this is something I'd have to play by feel if I actually run that campaign.

Miniman

@Shalvenay So, you can be the greatest wizard or fighter ever without the player having to learn anything about magic or fighting, but if I set out to make a character who's the greatest public speaker ever, you're going to say "Nope, you're not good enough at public speaking to play that character"?

Chemus

2:42 AM

The appellate information being made up by you would favor whatever side you think is right, usually. Not saying bias, but bias :)

BESW

You may be struggling with finding the right level of abstraction. Word-for-word roleplaying requires player proficiency with character skills, but there's more alternatives than super pulled-back abstract "I make an argument [roll] it fails."

Joel Harmon

@Shalvenay D&D battles aren't recording every sword stroke, either; it's a higher-level approximation

watch an Olympic fencing match and try to count how many attacks they can make in six seconds

Shalvenay

@Miniman no -- what I do is "you say your stuff, then I roll to determine what the NPC thought of it"

daze413

@Chemus IS there an Ace RPG?

Chemus

@daze413 Ionno, I don't even know his full name.

Shalvenay

2:44 AM

@BESW yeah, I think you hit on it. the fully zoomed out level doesn't show enough of the sausage-making to arrive at my metanarrative goals for that arc, but fully zoomed-in is clearly a snoozefest for most folks and very hard on both GM and players due to just how much detail can get involved

hey there @JoelHarmon

Joel Harmon

hey @Shalvenay

Shalvenay

how're things going?

Joel Harmon

not too bad

My wife and daughter are napping, so I'm sneaking out to the Stack. I'm quite a rebel.

Shalvenay

puzzling over campaign-arc bits and bobs here

Joel Harmon

yeah

have you considered allowing your players to illegally interfere with the court case?

daze413

2:48 AM

@Shalvenay I think you should put the tax/law case/s in the middle of the campaign, not at the start. Slowly build up to it, and foreshadow heavily. Put bits and pieces of information that the players can take note of, but not yet actionable until the tax case blows up

Joel Harmon

wizard does some scrying, rogue breaks into the opponent consul's chambers, fighter gets a scribe drunk at a bar, etc?

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon that's actually something that's being used against them -- one of the key plot points is that one of the hostile NPC factions is very much disdainful of due process of law.

but less in the fashion you describe and more in an...intimidative way

nitsua60

@JoelHarmon Is it really "napping" at this time of night?

Shalvenay

hey there @nitsua60

and hey again @Ben -- interwebs fixed?

Ben

Nah, but the fault is logged, so just gotta wait for them to fix it

Joel Harmon

2:54 AM

@nitsua60 Seems the baby is always napping. My wife fell asleep on the couch, so I think that counts :)

nitsua60

@Shalvenay hiya

Ben

@Chemus so far you're the only person I've spoken to that actually recognised the name "Adept"... did you say you were developing something for them as well?

Shalvenay

@nitsua60 how're things going?

nitsua60

@Shalvenay Struggling over the last line or two of an address I'm due to give in eleven hours.

Chemus

@Ben My gooble-fu is strong is all. I don't develop anything. 'Cept mods, and those are pretty kludgy. Sorry :)

nitsua60

2:56 AM

Need to just jot something down and look at it again in the morning.

Ben

Ah. The internet strikes again. Haha. No worries.

Just your reaction seemed too appropriate for someone with no experience :P

Chemus

I'm pretty good at context. Plus you were looking for experts so perhaps saw what you were lookin for ;)

daze413

@Shalvenay A quest to "stop those mean guys who are cheating" would be good, I think

Shalvenay

@daze413 yeah, that'll definitely be part of it

daze413

@Shalvenay in this one, are the PCs part of the relief effort or something?

Shalvenay

3:05 AM

@daze413 that's part of what I'm pondering -- where the PCs should fit in

Joel Harmon

@Shalvenay I'm not sure what would constitute a mistrial in your world, but that might be a valid goal

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon I'm not sure if a mistrial applies when stuff doesn't ever go to a jury

let me do a bit of research

hrm...yeah, you could get a mistrial out of this

probably because of misconduct by some party (which would likely be treated as a contempt as well)

Joel Harmon

@Shalvenay Of course, those would have to actually be laws in your fantasy world first, so...

Shalvenay

@JoelHarmon yeah

Joel Harmon

3:20 AM

I'm still a little sad that the magic divination computer question is still closed

Ben

@JoelHarmon I'm failing to see the question.

Joel Harmon

@Ben but OP wants to talk about RPGs, Computers, and Math at the same time!

and to be clear, I think my concern and Anne's in the comments would need to be addressed to make a stack-worthy question

but I'm pretty sure OP just gave up on it at this point

Ben

Yeah. They've added a lot of information, without actually defining the question.

BESW

3:36 AM

My D&D players would probably have gone back and found a legal beagle friend they made earlier in their adventures and said "Tell us what evidence/witnesses we need to help track down," and they might never have hit the courtroom themselves.

(I've had two campaigns where the PCs orchestrated a major national/international negotiation, found the right mediator, gave them all the tools, and then stepped out of the room.)

Plot agency doesn't always have to mean being right there in the middle of the crucial scene.

Sometimes it's very cool to be able to say "Our choices until now mean we're so awesome we can control that outcome without even being there," or "We've already made this apparently difficult task so trivial that our friends are handling it for us."

BESW

4:06 AM

Took a break from #dnd yesterday to practice GMing some #FateCore by @EvilHatOfficial this system is amazeballs. https://t.co/58O3IsQgPi

Tweeted by nerdwithdice on May 23, 2017 at 2:23 AM

Khashir

Heya! I edited an on-hold question---it already has 2 re-open votes, if other mods can take a look and let me know what else to change, or please re-open if already compliant :)
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/100133/how-can-i-compare-bless-and-faerie-fire-using-anydice

Adeptus

4:23 AM

@Khashir (No need for mods in this case - any high-enough-rep users can vote to close/reopen. Mods can just do it in one vote)

Miniman

@Khashir To be perfectly blunt, I don't think this question will ever be one I would vote to reopen. What you're asking for is ridiculously broad even if you were asking for just one of Bless or Faerie Fire.

Khashir

Hmm, maybe I didn't express it correctly, let me re-read.

Miniman

"DPS" is dependent on how much damage is dealt by an attack, what attacks are/could be used, (dis)advantage, AC, resistances, attack bonuses...

With an exact party composition, including their stats and exactly which attacks they're going to use, on a specific monster, this would totally be answerable.

BESW

Is "DPS" even a useful concept in 5e? I've never seen any RPG in which it was meaningful.

Khashir

But I asked about DPS gain (a %), not a precise number.

(and changed DPS to Damage, cause technically, yes, DPS is not meaningful here)

So, damage can be set to X (whatever it is), and anydice can give the damage gains from adding the extra 1d4 to the attack roll

(I know the theory, just not how to implement in Anydice, and a bit rusty re: 5E rules)

Miniman

4:33 AM

@Khashir That doesn't really work though - Faerie Fire increases the chance to crit, and Bless doesn't, so % increase to X damage doesn't work.

Khashir

? I thought increase chance to crit can easily be accounted for. let me see if i remember/find info

Miniman

@Khashir The damage increase from a crit depends on the composition of the attack's damage.

@Khashir For example, 1d6 + 4 and 1d8 + 3 do the "same" damage, but on a crit, 2d8 + 3 does more than 2d6 + 4.

BESW

Does 5e have variable crit multipliers and ranges?

Khashir

right, but when comparing bless/FF, you hold the attack damage constant

Miniman

@BESW Yep.

Khashir

4:37 AM

@Miniman comparison doesn't make sense otherwise

@BESW Champion (for example) allows crits on 18-20; can't recall any multipliers of the top of my head

Miniman

@Khashir Exactly! The comparison doesn't make sense, because you're comparing apples and oranges. And saying "simplify it to the point where it ceases to be an issue" just means you'll get inaccurate answers.

BESW

It's equally nonsensical to act like a single comparison based on a single arbitrary point in a complex system is usefully abstractable.

Miniman

@Khashir Half-orcs, barbarians, some magic items (from memory).

BESW

Perhaps what you mean to ask is "What is the comparative benefit to damage between Bless and Faerie Fire?" and it's best to leave the choice of praxis to answerers.

Miniman

@BESW Right. Which is why, to make this question not-broad, I'm suggesting giving a situation, and saying "which is the better spell in this situation".

Khashir

4:42 AM

I think you misunderstood my comment about nonsensical comparisons: yes, the two attacks you used as example perform differently with crits, but we would be talking about the same attack

BESW

This may be an instance of deciding the particular solution you want and asking for that, rather than presenting the problem you're trying to solve.

Khashir

sure, I can fill in more details about the situation

@BESW how's that different from my question?

BESW

If your question is how to choose between Bless and Faerie Fire, you've already decided it's best answered with an Anydice analysis of a single attack.

There may be other methods and techniques of choosing between them.

Khashir

ah, gotcha. anydice is so sexy though

Miniman

@Khashir Right, but the damage increase from the 2 spells depends on the damage of the attack. You're saying not to worry about whether it's 1d6 + 4 or 1d8 + 3, just act like it's 7.5, but if you do that, the increase to crit chance caused by Faerie Fire gets ignored.

BESW

4:44 AM

But you've shut them out by only asking for the solution you can think of, instead of drawing on the expertise of the Stack to solve the problem in whatever way it can.

Khashir

@Miniman not quite what I meant either, but I can just add an attack to the question.

BESW

1143

A: What is the XY problem?

What is it? The XY problem is asking about your attempted solution rather than your actual problem. That is, you are trying to solve problem X, and you think solution Y would work, but instead of asking about X when you run into trouble, you ask about Y. The Problem This can lead to frustrati...

Khashir

@BESW Sure, sounds good

BESW

So, what real-life gaming situation brought you to the Stack Exchange looking for help?

Khashir

LOL

well, after years of slack, i was able to get our group going again

Miniman

4:52 AM

@Khashir Congratulations!

Khashir

Thanks :)

BESW

Yey!

Khashir

we're running sporadic one-shots because committing to a campaign and regular sessions is challenging (3 different time zones)

BESW

Makes sense. My group's as coherent as it is because we use one-shots and episodic formats (and systems without leveling) to make sure there's absolutely no pressure if you miss a week or six.

Khashir

so, I've been playing around with different builds at each session, and didn't have a way to decide between FF and Bless in a build I want to try out

@BESW ohhh, what do you mean episodic? (and without leveling) would love some tips, it's pretty new for us

BESW

4:57 AM

Episodic means that our games are kinda like TV shows where there's a whole short story in a single episode. The same characters are mostly there for each session, with sometimes a guest star or sometimes a main character is missing, and it's the same world and the same basic premise, but each session is self-contained and satisfying.

Khashir

ah ya

gotcha

BESW

And without leveling, well. There's a whole world of RPG systems outside D&D-likes, and many of them don't have vertical progression. Many games have lateral progression instead, where characters change according to the story but don't just pile on more and more new features.

We're using and adapting systems where it's quick and easy to make characters, the rules of the game can be taught on the fly during play, and missing sessions doesn't mean your character is less powerful than everyone else's.

We also use a lot of systems designed for one-shot games.

Khashir

like which?

BESW

You can see a list of games I've played in my profile.

Our current long-form systems include Bubblegumshoe and various forms of Fate like Atomic Robo.

Khashir

whoa, that's a lot of games

BESW

5:06 AM

Our current one-shot systems include Roll For Shoes, Cthulhu Dark, and Danger Patrol.

There are literally thousands upon thousands of RPGs out there. Some of them are barely recognisable as RPGs if we take D&D as our baseline.

Khashir

Yes, I forget that often, i won't lie

8-)

@Miniman, @BESW: question edited, does it pass muster?
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/100133/how-can-i-compare-the-damage-gain-between-bless-and-faerie-fire?noredirect=1#comment236958_100133

Aeon Wave looks pretty sweet

and just today I saw a post about Fate, guys was pretty impressed

BESW

Fate's our default system for campaigns where we know what kind of game we want to play and no particular system recommends itself to support that game play specifically.

Khashir

@BESW Roll for shoes LMAO. The rules look pretty straightforward, how does it scale in complexity/richness?

BESW

For example, right now we're playing a Stargate campaign using a mixed hack of Fate Accelerated variants.

I wouldn't really recommend RFS for anything longer than a session or two. It can get out of hand in a very fun way.

Khashir

lol

BESW

5:14 AM

I like using Roll For Shoes for quick silly no-prep games, as an introduction to roleplaying for friends who might balk at upfront complexity costs, and as a cleanser between very different games.

It's also great for very large groups, because it's super simple and everyone's tracking their own growing complexity.

Khashir

yeah, seems promising on that front

thanks for the info :-), will keep it in mind if we want to change things up a bit

i'm heading to bed, ttyl!

ttfn

fn?

"ta ta for now."

jaja, nice

7:46 AM

0

Q: Are Setting questions on-topic?

Recent activity has redirected questions on rpg-like material to Sci-fi/fantasy SE for lore/setting questions. Should we by that same reasoning really not be redirecting all questions that aren't of a social/gameplay nature?

discussion

BESW

@TheOracle VTC dupe:

20

Q: Are campaign research questions on topic, part two?

There is a category of questions on this site that seriously pollutes our scope. Taking these questions to their logical maximum (which I see us continually approaching) everything under the sun has become on topic. This category is campaign research. Appending historical-settings, campaign-de...

discussion faq on-topic research

Miniman

@BESW I was looking at that, as well as a lot of the questions linked to it (searching "Star Wars" is a weirdly good way to find discussion on this topic) - yep, it's been covered, but I can see value in having it be covered explicitly, in its own post, rather than scattered through posts with broader umberellas.

BESW

3

Q: Are setting questions for something that isn't a game campaign on-topic?

In the sci-fi book I'm currently researching, I'm currently struggling to come up with a reasonable act 3-4 adversary (about 2/3 through the book). Now, ordinarily, I'd ask this on writers.SE, but they don't like questions that are basically "what should I write about?". However, I understand RP...

discussion on-topic

Miniman

7

Q: Are 'fluff' setting related questions relevant?

I was about to ask for help coming up with a list of titles that fit in with the theme of the WH:40K universe (and with Rogue Trader in particular). Latin isn't my first language =) In particular, I wanted a title for a character that had risen in the administrative/logistical ranks of a ministor...

discussion on-topic

Personally, my vote is going to wait for examples of what he's asking about, I think.

Tritium21

rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/a/7135/12408 Is this coherent?

Miniman

7:57 AM

@Tritium21 Coherent and logical. (To me, at least.)

BESW

I'd reverse the paragraphs.

Say "These are distinct terms used to mean different things in different games" and then give an example.

Tritium21

@BESW It does read better reversed, thank you

BESW

I'm glad you had an example to offer; my answer would've been weaker for the lack.

Tritium21

Thats the abridged truth table for FFG star wars, too

you can technically succeed and have a fumble AND a critical failure on the same role. Its like augury interpreting the dice sometimes.

BESW

Nice. I like systems with that kind of multiple outcome, though it's hard to find ones which resolve easily.

13th Age and Danger Patrol Pocket Edition come to mind.

Tritium21

8:07 AM

the drawback to ffgsw is you have to spend $30 on new special dice. (you really need two sets unless you are just playing the box set adventures)

BESW

13th Age uses a single d20 but has you check it for even/odd and over/under various unmodified values as well as using its modified value to hit or miss a target number.

Tritium21

I should look into that

Anyways, I asked for the coherency check on that post due to being very tired when I wrote it (as in a few minutes ago... so I am still very tired.) Good night!

BESW

DPPE checks a large pool of multisized dice for 1-3 or 4+ each, but also checks each die to see if it's on its highest possible face.

ttfn

doppelgreener

9:09 AM

@BESW I VTC'd, though for a different reason. (It may wind up as a dupe.)

BESW

9:23 AM

@doppelgreener You may have forgotten that you're the hammer.

I think mod close reasons get weighted extra.

doppelgreener

@BESW Oh, no, I mean, it might be a dupe after they clarify it.

I have only forgotten my stop—hammertime abilities once so far, yesterday.

BESW

I think the recent activity is this:

8

Q: Are "choose your own adventure" questions on topic?

Only previous reference is in an answer to What kind of questions can I ask here?, which is 5 years old. We've seen much water pass under the bridge since then. Question inspired by: Choose Your Own Adventure Books/Games: Are there any Two-Player variants? Let us take a hypothetical: Someone a...

discussion on-topic

3

Q: Why isn't there a tag for Fighting Fantasy?

I was going to edit this question by adding a tag for Fighting Fantasy, because I noticed that he had missed it, but then I found out that there isn't a tag for it. That seems odd, given that Fighting Fantasy books are basically a gateway drug into the world of tabletop/pen-and-paper roleplaying ...

discussion feature-request status-declined tags

3

Q: Migration rejected - and now what?

How to create a logical system to run a divination engine based on d&d magic? How do I help OP to get this question clarified and possibly reopened (on Worldbuilding on here, depending what he really wants)? I can't comment or edit on Worldbuilding because it was migrated and site redirects me h...

support specific-question migration

doppelgreener

I think so too.

If they've concluded based on CYOA questions being off topic that a whole separate class of questions should be off topic, that's a stance I'd prefer to see them put forward explicitly.

(otherwise imagine if we assumed that was their stance, and responded accordingly, but it wasn't)

BESW

Aye.

doppelgreener

10:15 AM

@BESW @trogdor Monster name from a spam post elsewhere on the network: Hydrabad

BESW

10:30 AM

Nice.

eimyr

@doppelgreener You mean the Indian one?

doppelgreener

@eimyr that was the word that came up in the spam, yeah :D

trogdor

11:23 AM

@doppelgreener lol

Dr R Dizzle

11:41 AM

Is it unfair of me to count the 4 different tentacles of a monster as effectively separate creatures in an encounter? So they each have their own HP and Initiative?

I want my players to be attacked by a giant squid while they're on a pretty small boat, and fighting 4 tentacles (really just reskinned Constrictors) sounds more fun than fighting one Giant Octopus.

BESW

Depends a lot on the context and how you're doing it.

Like, in 4e I often divided one Solo-type monster (supposed to be equivalent in difficulty to four Standard-type monsters of the same level) into four Standard monsters that functioned as a single creature. eg, a dragon might be Head, Body, Tail, Wings, and Claws, each with their own turns and attacks and hp pool.

But in a system like 3.5 it'd be very difficult to make that kind of thing fair, as the primary way to make something less difficult is to make it a lower level and that just trivialises them.

Dr R Dizzle

Well the CR of 4 Constrictors is the same as the CR for one Giant Octopus, so the only really difference is that they need to worry about what four tentacles are doing rather than just what one Octopus is doing. I think it'll just make the fight a little more fun.

BESW

Sounds like it could be!

doppelgreener

11:58 AM

i think that sounds like fun too.

Anne Aunyme

Seems like a nice idea!

As a DM I would make all the tentacles act at the same time, but I guess it doesn't change the balance of the encounter

doppelgreener

i'd have them act at different times just to help reinforce the feeling they're different creatures

Anne Aunyme

also note that fighting on a small boat is probably worth an increase in CR

doppelgreener

rather than "just one thing with four moves" it'd feel like "four things"

Anne Aunyme

(depending on how much the octopus is using the terrain to its advantage)

Dr R Dizzle

12:04 PM

@doppelgreener Yeah, that's what I want. Just because one tentacle recoils from a violent blow doesn't mean the others do, and I like the idea of them acting at different times.

Especially when one might grapple a particularly troublesome character, so that another tentacle can come get him.

Anne Aunyme

@doppelgreener That's an understandable point of view, I honestly think both methods are good for different reasons

doppelgreener

@AnneAunyme I agree.

@DrRDizzle It also helps that octopus tentacles literally have minds of their own.

Dr R Dizzle

@doppelgreener I didn't know that!

doppelgreener

@DrRDizzle Oh boy! Can I tell you about this briefly?

Dr R Dizzle

@doppelgreener Please do, I'm basing an entire encounter around tentacles so the more knowledge the better.

doppelgreener

12:12 PM

@DrRDizzle Octopuses have a brain in the base of each tentacle. They're such complex organs that one brain would get overwhelmed dealing with eight of them on its own. The octopus's central brain doesn't directly control its tentacles; they take suggestions & requests from it more or less. They can act independently.

Whales, dolphins and sharks that hunt octopuses have developed complex strategies for defeating them, because even if they kill the central brain, the eight tentacles will still be fighting back -- and usually lodge themselves in the predator's throat and take them down too by suffocating them.

Dr R Dizzle

That's neat. I've got a player whose character is ~~stupid~~ brave enough to just jump into the water and attack the body, so it's nice to know that the tentacles will still act.

doppelgreener

Totally. They'll exhaust themselves and die after a while, but I imagine it'll be pretty horrifying killing the body & it doing nothing.

Other fun thing: Octopuses have three hearts. One is their primary heart, the other two are for their gills. (Take that, Doctor Who.)

Dr R Dizzle

I'm expecting them to chop a few tentacles and the Octopus will flee TBH. But if my guy jumps in, he'll be in for a surprise.

doppelgreener

A lovely surprise.

I think having a central body is a nice idea. Bites, spells, etc can come from that.

Dr R Dizzle

I think I'll only "include" the central body if they go for it somehow. The idea ATM is that the Octopus itself sits upside down under the boat while its tentacles do its dirty work.

doppelgreener

12:26 PM

Ok, cool. :)

BESW

And then later you can be stalked by Swordapus, seeking vengeance.

NautArch

howdy y'all

BESW

[wave]

doppelgreener

Testing something:

rpg.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/5385/…

Hm. Oneboxes seem to be broken at the moment.

Dr R Dizzle

@BESW Hahahaha, what?!?!

BESW

12:40 PM

There's a 13th Age expansion which features the Swordapus monster, so we tried making a PC version.

It works surprisingly well.

doppelgreener

It does!

BESW

2:01 PM

@doppelgreener Cross-quoted in the TARDIS.

doppelgreener

@BESW What what? (Unpack that sentence for me?)

BESW

I one-box-linked your statement into this chat room:

Time and Relative Dimensions in Spoilers

Ooh, you've redecorated. I don't like it.

doppelgreener

@BESW \o/

NautArch

3:28 PM

any mods around? I'm not sure about my copypasta answer to both of Markovchain's questions on Locate Object. Is that legit? shoudl there bet two?

@doppelgreener @SevenSidedDie @nitsua60 @Miniman

doppelgreener

@NautArch Hi!

[checks]

SevenSidedDie

@NautArch Copying over is legit, yeah. That pair of questions is becoming a bit of a mess, but that is indeed the cleanest way to handle it without significantly changing how the asker is organising the questions. (i.e., it would have been far cleaner to change the original to be the new question, and re-ask the designer-intent one as a new question.)

@NautArch Ideally, the old answer will be updated a bit to more clearly address the question of designer intent, even if that only means “the question of designer intent is moot because the assumption that question is based on is invalid, because…” or somesuch.

NautArch

Ok, I'll add that, thank you

doppelgreener

What the pointy object said ☝️ :D

NautArch

I don't really see a need to have 2 questions tho

SevenSidedDie

3:37 PM

@NautArch Sometimes people get a thing in their head that they're convinced is a fact. Our best option then is to help them see the error. Especially since we might be wrong, answers are a great place to put that. I'm actually glad that they didn't insist on it staying one question, because that would have just led to more arguing.

Adam

It sounds like the first question was about designer intent, and so really should have been left unanswered. As far as I can tell, the devs have been silent on such a case.

NautArch

very true - and it leaves my answer much more applicable.

@Adam the content of the question has changed as he's made iterations.

Adam

Ultimately, I think the existence, or not, of that loophole depends on how loose your DM is with the "of a particular kind" clause. If using a 30 sentence long description without any definite articles makes sense to the DM, then the loophole exists. It's a bit like obscenity. I can't really define "of a particular kind" in a solid rules backed way, but I know it when somebody is stretching the definition to find a specific object.

doppelgreener

0

Q: Great Weapon Master and Versatile Weapons

From what I have read in the PHB the benefits of Great Weapon Fighting apply to both two-handed(Heavy weapons) and using a versatile weapon with two hands. Great Weapon Master on page 167 of the PHB says that the -5/+10 can only be used with heavy weapons. So that means gnomes/halflings or a ch...

dnd-5e feats

Can this question be viably edited to not ask about "why is it this way" (designer intent) and focus on balance instead?

it seems like we should be able to do that

but I'm not a D&D 5e player so I'm not certain

(their question might really just be a designer intent question at core)

Adam

@doppelgreener I think it's possible. Since there is a comment asking if a homebrew rule to change this would cause any imbalances, we could replace the "Why is it this way" with "Would it drastically unbalance combat to homebrew that versatile weapons work too" and then slap the homebrew and balance tags on it.

I suspect that many people want to know why things are the way they are because they are afraid that homebrewing something to expand it will cause some great imbalance that the designers knew about. So the problem might really be "I want to make a homebrew rule, but I'm nervous that it will unbalance things. Have the designers foretold of a catastrophic doompocalypse that will occur if I allow this?"

doppelgreener

3:58 PM

@Adam I agree with that. "Surely the way it is is borne out of enormously complex reasoning I dare not tinker with lest the game collapse," they may think. (Reality, in the designer office, Designer 1: "Hey does this read okay?" / Designer 2: [glances for a few seconds] "Yeah sure I guess")

Adam

@doppelgreener Lead Designer: "You guys got that new playtest ready?" Designers 1/2: "Yeah, boss!" [several days later] Designers 1/2: "So, we learned that our feat did(n't) work like we thought..."

Actually, looking at it again, another oddity is that locate object says "This spell can't locate an object if any thickness of lead, even a thin sheet, blocks a direct path between you and the object." Since the spell uses the indefinite "a", as long as one path is blocked by lead, the object is undetectable. So if I put a sheet of lead out in the wilderness, I can't locate any object because I could always draw a path that goes through that sheet.

NautArch

@doppelgreener The GWM/Versatile seems to just be asking: Are Versatile weapons considered Heavy because they are wielded with two hands.

Unless I'm reading it wrong

@Adam I think it's meant (maybe) to be more that if the lead barrier is between your current location and the object, it's occluded. If you walk around and come at it from behind, it is no longer blocking and bingobangobongo...object found.

Adam

4:13 PM

@NautArch I agree that is the intent :p I'm just pointing out sarcastically that a strict reading of the spell suggests that, unless lead doesn't exist in your world, the spell can't detect anything

NautArch

@Adam the literalist in me likes that response :)

Delioth

@Adam "Direct path" kind of implies that it has to be a straight line- a squiggle isn't a direct path, and neither would a line that goes North 542 miles to hit a block of lead and then South 543 miles to find the thing.

Adam

@Delioth <sarcasm>Or perhaps "direct path" is meant to imply only that you have to stay on the same plane of existence. Like, any path traveling through only one plane is direct, but traveling though another plane isn't</sarcasm>

Delioth

I guess if you try to read that far into it; but if a GM tried that hard in any case, we can just cite: direct "proceeding in a straight line or by the shortest course; straight; undeviating; not oblique:"

Adam

Yeah, I guess it doesn't work after all. Dang. And here I was hoping to make the spell even less valuable to me than it already is :p

NautArch

4:24 PM

Or...just eat their brains?

Adam

@NautArch I bet I could find brains plenty easy without magic. You know, if I wanted to. Which I certainly do not!

KorvinStarmast

@NautArch Pls check out my comment in reply to your comment on versatile versus two handed and heavy.

@doppelgreener I think it is in good shape to re open.

HazyKingdom

4:40 PM

Hey all! How's it going today?

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast d'oh! I didn't notice the change from GWF to GWM.

The Oracle

1

Q: Is there a chat room to ask off topic questions?

I want to ask a recommendation type question which I know are strictly off topic due to the nature of the question. I know in other stack exchanges there is a chat room where such questions can be asked openly. Does this stack exchange have a chat room or another place where I can ask these types...

discussion

NautArch

@KorvinStarmast A new assumption has entered: Halflings and gnomes can't use heavy weapons. They can- they just get disadvantage. Similar but not the same thing.

Howdy @HazyKingdom

Time and Relative Dimensions in Spoilers

Transcript for