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Tritium21
Tritium21
12:02 AM
i.imgur.com/fIpUA0H.png also needed for the game >.>
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
@Tritium21 That's.... hmmmmmmm......
What's the fifty-first state?
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
@Tritium21 Interesting!
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
@Grubermensch Guam, US Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico (and other US island territories) joined as a single state.
You will note, there are 9 maple leaves. there are 10 Canadian provinces.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
Does one of them end up a blasted nuclear wasteland? It seems like things always go that way...
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
@Tritium21 What happened to the other one?
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
12:08 AM
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
Quebec didn't vote to unionize with the rest of Canada. It is occupied, mostly by anglophone former-Canadian-now-USAC military.
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
@Tritium21 United States of Americo-Canada?
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
United States of American and Canada
I think i stole that directly from shadowrun
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
@Tritium21 Wise choice
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
@Tritium21 Shadowrun was UCAS (United Canadian & American States) and CAS (Confederate of American States)
 
Miniman
Miniman
12:19 AM
Does that mean Alaska and Canada were finally part of the same nation?
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
yes
retcons the country name
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
12:31 AM
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
I really should take the game to former-canada for a while. Lot of tension there.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
12:49 AM
@Pureferret what is this map from?
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
@doppelgreener The internet
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
oh. c(: no game or anything in particular?
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
@doppelgreener It's vaguely similar to the map in my Shadowrun book
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
1:06 AM
That looks like its a map of shadowrun...maybe second edition?
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
1:26 AM
It's a good map
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
1:49 AM
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
2:26 AM
slight armoring-simulationist question: what would be a feasible way to keep a helm handy without having it on your head all the time?
I was thinking of either using a strap/chain + clip or snap to attach it to one's belt (albeit with need for a bit of fumbling) or just chaining it permanently to the upper part of her pack so it just hangs on her back and she can reach back and throw it on
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
@Shalvenay Helmets usually have some sort of chin-strap to stop them being knocked off in battle. Hanging it by this, from a hook on your belt or somewhere, is probably the most realistic option.
(I'm assuming a full-face helmet, not a skullcap type)
Chaining it to your pack would mean you can't drop your pack if you need to, and it may impair your movement if the chain is too short. Also, it'd be difficult to "reach back and throw it on". They're not exactly lightweight.
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
true...I suppose "where should the hook go?" is the other question
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
I'd say near the hip. Least obtrusive to movement, good place to hang things (like swords)
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
2:57 AM
aye...sounds like a plan to me
last question -- what's the best way to attach the helm to this chain/strap?
I suspect most people would clip it, but I see that as too fumble-prone...so maybe something like a snap? (darn the lack of hook and loop fasteners!)
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
3:16 AM
@Adeptus?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
reviewing that question
i don't understand the question.
you have a chain, and a helmet. put the chain through the edge of the helmet. put a slot in the helmet somewhere and put a strap or the chain through the slot.
or, revisiting what Adeptus pointed out, helmets already have a strap attached to them. The chin strap. You are using that strap to attach it. There is no extra hook, chain, or strap to add to the helmet to worry about. You use the chinstrap to strap the helmet to your belt.
and you don't need a third strap to attach the chinstrap to your belt (which is, itself, just a very large strap)
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
3:35 AM
a-ha :)
so just have a snap on your belt that mates with the snap on the chinstrap
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
no, you have a belt, you have a strap, you strap the strap around the belt instead of around your chin.
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
it seems to me that that'd make the helm hang rather awkwardly
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
you are in a big suit of armor. "my helm is sitting awkwardly at the back of my hip" is the least of your concerns in terms of what is sitting awkwardly.
also, the helmet, being a big round thing, is always going to sit awkwardly.
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
well, you have a point there...it probably will always be awkward and annoying
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
3:50 AM
Back... but yes, what Greener said
 
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
righty-o :) that's what I went with
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
4:33 AM
but, if it's any consolation, you could probably use your helmet to store your gloves, or a towel, or maybe put a towel in there to pad your flask of ale.
now you have a hipflask! and a helmet! and, when you need to take your hip flask out to put your helmet on, down the drink for courage!
* drinking before deadly swordfights may actually be an extremely bad idea
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
Replace ale with Potion of (some sort of buff) and you have a good plan :)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Adeptus Potion of courage!
(this is my headcanon: fantasy potions that inspire some variety of bravery are really just different varieties of very strong alcohol)
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
@doppelgreener There was an episode of How I Met Your Mother, I think, where the episode's premise was that different types of alcohol provoked different reactions in the characters - brandy makes you friendly, vodka belligerent, and so forth. This could work as a basic taxonomy of booze -> potions.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@lisardggY That episode was amazing.
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
@Miniman It was one of the later and far, far inferior seasons, but I seem to remember it was one of their returns to form, where they did what they do best - mess with the genre format.
 
Miniman
Miniman
5:15 AM
Gahhhh...I've written the answer to this (and it's beautiful), but he won't add the vital bit of clarification! [shakes fist]
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman is that link an answer in comments?
if so, you're making it likely he'll never do that.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@doppelgreener No, that's just proof that rerolling <=5 is optimal.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
ok.
 
Miniman
Miniman
Hmmm. Now that I think about it, I can modify my answer so that strategy is a parameter...but I probably shouldn't.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman he clarified.
 
Miniman
Miniman
5:23 AM
Yep, but the answer pointed out something I hadn't thought of: Does strategy depend on number of rerolls?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
yes
 
Miniman
Miniman
Yeah, experimentation agrees with you.
That makes it problematic.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
If I have a d10 and I'm trying to get a fairly high result (maybe my opponent will roll a d10 as well and I need to beat them), and I get 3 rerolls, I can do a risk/benefit analysis of each reroll. "Is it worth trying?"
 
trogdor
trogdor
if you have 9, you could go for 10,.. but you probably should not
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
If I have a d10 and I'm trying to beat 7, the landscape of this puzzle changes completely. It's much simpler. Keep rolling until I get over 7, nothing to lose.
yes ^
 
Miniman
Miniman
5:27 AM
I wonder if you could find an optimal strategy with induction or something.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Yes.
Probably.
But this boils down to "follow this complex algorithm and you have an X% chance of eventual success."
Different patterns will have different chances.
 
trogdor
trogdor
and if you have like, 3, there is almost no chance of being punished for re rolling
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
e.g. I get a 5, 2 and 2 and I'm trying to beat 16. Do I reroll just the 2's and risk not getting 11 total between them, or do I reroll the 5 as well and risk flunking that one?
 
trogdor
trogdor
if you have a 5 I feel bad for you cause it could go either way really
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
yep
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
5:30 AM
[glances quickly at question] You should reroll every die where the existing result is lower than the expected value of the roll
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Grubermensch except where a die is like a 9 or a 10
that could change things
 
Magician
Magician
From the looks of it, it's a system which seems to be about risking it all for a better result, but ends up being a mathematical exercise with optimal plays.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
I don't see how. You would never reroll a die that came up higher than the expected value (e.g. 6+)
What @Magician said.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Grubermensch What if your target is 24?
you wouldn't stick with just a 6+ necessarily
(that said, you've got an unfairly difficult roll on your hands there)
 
Miniman
Miniman
@Grubermensch Anydice disagrees with you, anyway.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
5:34 AM
@Magician and yeah
 
Magician
Magician
Now, if the results varied as well, and you had to decide between dealing 20 damage you rolled (or getting 20 on your check, whatever), or risking it for a greater chance of more, and 20 was a threshold of some kind, it'd be different.
 
Miniman
Miniman
If you've got 2 rerolls, you should reroll a 6 if it comes up on the first roll.
 
Magician
Magician
You'd be making a choice between a good result or a chance of a better result but also a chance of failure.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
Right, if it's a threshold system, then you have to map the rolls into the threshold first.
 
Magician
Magician
What I mean is, if you rolled 1 success, and you have a choice of risking it for two successes or zero, you may have to consider if zero successes wouldn't be a disaster, even if it's not likely. That would be a risk vs reward decision, rather than pure maths.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
5:37 AM
Well, it would be statistics, which is what it's been the whole time.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
or it could just be that as a player, I want what I get from two successes enough I'm happy to risk getting no successes to have a chance at two.
but then again it could be like babbage: "ALWAYS TELL ME THE ODDS!"
 
Magician
Magician
Right. The question as stated, "get me the highest number possible", is boring, as there's the right answer. In the context of what those numbers mean, it could work.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
5:58 AM
@Miniman I did some math
You are sort of right, in that the optimal threshold does appear to increase with the number of rolls. But it looks like it's a bit less than 0.6 still for two rolls.
Now this does assume that p is constant across both rolls.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@Grubermensch This is way over my head.
That said, I can't help but think that the question "With this dice mechanic, what is the optimal strategy to maximize expected output?" might be a lot more interesting than the original one.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
Let p be the threshold, which is the probability that we roll the die again. We can then break into two paths: 1) We get over the threshold with probability (1-p) and expect a value of (1 - (1-p)/2) (the midpoint of the upper range). 2) We are under the threshold with probability (p) and expect a value of (1/2) off of the reroll.
This means our expected value for a single reroll with threshold p is (1-p)(1-(1-p)/2) + (p)(1/2). The first WA plot is the expansion of that function, and we see that it in fact maximizes at (1/2).
The second one is the first injected back into itself, because instead of the follow-on expectation being 1/2, it's now the expectation from the single reroll scenario.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
I'm no 5e expert but i can usually tell when something is actually a question. I can't tell here...
-3
Q: Is your question answered by understanding the "action economy" and application of the "specific beats general" rule?

Dale MIt is my impression that a large number of the questions of the form "Can I do this?", "Does this feat allow me to do that?" and "How does this interact with that?" are generally the result of a poor understanding of the "action economy" and the "specific beats general" rule in Dungeons and Drago...

discussion dnd-5e
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
i have voted to close as unclear, so there's that
 
The Oracle
The Oracle
6:14 AM
-3
Q: Is your question answered by understanding the "action economy" and application of the "specific beats general" rule?

Dale MIt is my impression that a large number of the questions of the form "Can I do this?", "Does this feat allow me to do that?" and "How does this interact with that?" are generally the result of a poor understanding of the "action economy" and the "specific beats general" rule in Dungeons and Drago...

discussion dnd-5e
 
Miniman
Miniman
Me too. I think the sentiment there was ok - we get a lot of questions which can be answered with "That needs an action, so you can't do it with your bonus action attack" (or similar). I think he was trying to provide a question which all those questions could potentially be closed as dupes of, but it just ended up as kind of a mess.
Questions created with this sentiment don't seem to do too well, generally.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
I have things to say about that when I get some confirmation from him on the purpose.
 
Miniman
Miniman
Except this one, of course.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
@Miniman I solved for independent thresholds on the first and second rolls and it was a thing of beauty.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@doppelgreener Nice explanation of the issues around these types of questions.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
6:20 AM
Maximum at (5/8, 1/2). So you were correct in that rerolling 6 is optimal on the first pass.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@Grubermensch It's still way over my head, but it is indeed beautiful. I love 3D graphs.
 
Grubermensch
Grubermensch
I derived an unreasonable amount of enjoyment from basic statistics math just now. What have I done with my life?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman thanks
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
-2
Q: Is your question answered by understanding the "action economy" and application of the "specific beats general" rule?

Dale MIt is my impression that a large number of the questions of the form "Can I do this?", "Does this feat allow me to do that?" and "How does this interact with that?" are generally the result of a poor understanding of the "action economy" and the "specific beats general" rule in Dungeons and Drago...

dnd-5e actions
it lives, even though the meta post was deleted
 
Miniman
Miniman
That seems like a bug, especially since the edit history now shows "Migration Rejected".
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
6:31 AM
and deleted
 
Miniman
Miniman
Yeah - makes it difficult to work out if it was a bug or not.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman if it gets closed/deleted at the destination, that happens
 
Miniman
Miniman
@doppelgreener Ah, ok.
I suppose normally the post-migration delete would come from the new site saying "No, we don't want this." so that makes sense.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
pretty much
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
should I get back into 3.5 or go to mathfinder?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
6:44 AM
no
 
Magician
Magician
Seconded.
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
@Tritium21 Mathfinder? Is that like Rollmaster?
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
its a pet name for pathfinder
 
trogdor
trogdor
XD
that's what I immediately assumed that was
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
My perspective is that the world of RPGs is a rich and beautiful rainbow of diverse options for a thousand different wonderful things you could enjoy doing, and that D&D and Pathfinder are a dull greyish brown. Go explore!
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
6:51 AM
like Rollmaster - so called because Rolemaster uses percentile tables for pretty much everything
@doppelgreener What if I like dull greyish brown?
 
trogdor
trogdor
you can like D&D and Pathfinder, but if you never try anything else it leaves you not actually knowing if you like anything else
it goes for a lot of things really, not just RPG's
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
@doppelgreener Yeah, but its hard to find groups to play "this really cool homebrew" and I can find D&D groups.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Adeptus Pick an aspect of D&D and Pathfinder that is the part you actually genuinely enjoy and I can probably point you toward a game that does it without the enormous amount of baggage presented by the rest of the system. Unless all of the system is exactly what you want.
@Tritium21 Sure, but you can find Fate groups, and so on and so on groups.
or create such a group.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
I am fing tired of creating the damn group.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Ok, well, you asked my opinion and you got it.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
6:55 AM
I want to play, not run, and play with real dice around a damn table
that means playing with the people here, and thats 3.5 or pathfinder
 
trogdor
trogdor
no one in that group is at all open to trying something else then?
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
Its what they are playing
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
@doppelgreener Eh, it's mostly familiarity. And availability of books/adventures (second-hand or free)
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
Maybe I dont want to tell them they are having fun wrong when asking to join their groups.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
I'm gonna contrast that by saying the reason I'd choose an RPG is because it's genuinely fun.
@Tritium21 nobody is suggesting this is how you start up a group for whatever other game you want to play.
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
7:00 AM
@doppelgreener Also, my wife doesn't want to play in any setting other than D&D-ish medieval fantasy
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Ok.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
That is the implication of "Hey, I want to play with you guys, but lets not play the game you are all having fun with."
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
(I could maybe persuade her to try Dungeon World or something like that)
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
Not really.
 
trogdor
trogdor
to be fair, my group was only doing D&D 3.5 for a while, and then hesitantly switched to 4E, then it took even more wrangling to try any system that was not D&D based
 
Magician
Magician
7:01 AM
@Adeptus Or 13th Age :). Or, hell, even Fate - pseudo-medieval fantasy doesn't have to equal dungeon crawling, after all.
 
trogdor
trogdor
and I did in fact have fun with D&D
but now I can't imagine going back to it after trying all the other systems I have
not all of those systems were actually more fun for me
but a lot of them still were
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Tritium21 A good strategy for finding a group for a game is not finding people already playing a game and telling them to play a different one for no reason. So, yeah, you're right, that's not a good way to do things. I get you're venting frustration at me but I am not telling you to do anything except that you asked which game to get back into and I said to try other ones.
Playing a game because you're resigned to the fact you'll never play any of the ones you want to play and actually find fun is an awful reason to play a game.
But, I have personal bias in that. I have no particular need to roleplay when it won't be fun. Whatever I get out of that, I satisfy through alternate means as well.
 
Magician
Magician
@Tritium21 That's not a great way to join a group, no. But once you're part of a group, suggesting "lets try a different system next time" should be fine, I'd hope.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
That assumes 2 facts, which are not true, and it really came off as condescending to me. If you didn't intend that, I am sorry.
 
Magician
Magician
I tried to find a question on "How do I get my group to try a different system", as I was sure I saw it, but couldn't. If it's really missing, could be a decent thing to ask.
 
Miniman
Miniman
7:04 AM
@doppelgreener Meaning that you don't find D&D fun?
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
I play a LOT of systems. and I actually do like D&D style games, but just havent played them in years.
 
trogdor
trogdor
@Magician I was sure I remembered seeing something like that too
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Tritium21 It was not intended as condescending. You asked my opinion and I gave it. My opinion is that D&D and Pathfinder aren't great games, are weighed down by a billion pounds of baggage, and we've got an enormous amount of fantastic RPGs available nowadays.
 
Magician
Magician
16
Q: How do I convince my group to try a new system without always having to DM it first?

HeschoonI always play roleplaying games with the same friends. We have a lot of fun, but I'm always a bit frustrated by the fact that they always resist when I propose to try new roleplaying games. Even trying different editions (like Blood and Smoke instead of Vampire: The Requiem) is opposed by some pl...

system-agnostic new-gm group-dynamics system-introduction
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman I mean I have personal bias in that I am totally happy to play no RPG at all.
Hence, if I don't enjoy the particular RPG in and of itself, I won't play it.
maybe what I mean is I have a particular predisposition?
 
Miniman
Miniman
7:07 AM
@doppelgreener Not my question. For example, I am perfectly happy to not be playing any RPG, but I actively enjoy playing D&D 3.5 and get a lot of fun out of playing it. My question is, is the implication (that you personally do not get any fun out of D&D) correct?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Miniman Yes, that's correct.
 
trogdor
trogdor
@Magician this is it, or at least the one I remember
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
The parts of D&D I would enjoy, have other parts of D&D preventing me from enjoying them.
 
Magician
Magician
I wouldn't play 3.5 anymore either.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
I have walked the earth, and now long for home, only to arrive and find the road has forked in my absence. Which fork should I take?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
7:09 AM
So, if you really want to know 3.5e or Pathfinder, there's one question: Do you want the martial vs caster gap to be large or very large (or do you not care), and which side of it do you intend to be on?
I guess that's two questions.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@Tritium21 Well, taking the question at face value, out of 3.5 and PF, I'd say 3.5. But I've never actually played PF, so you should probably ignore me completely.
 
trogdor
trogdor
@doppelgreener it's actually strange, I would probably not play 4E anymore, but I would probably still waste a lot of time creating PC's for it
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
But those are the ones I'd start with.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
I usually go martial.
 
Miniman
Miniman
So, do you want the martial vs caster gap to be large or very large (or do you not care)?
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
7:12 AM
D&D 3.5e then. Pathfinder screwed over martial characters and enlarged the gap between them and casters.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
...I didnt that that would be possible.
 
Magician
Magician
...how
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
They also continue to nerf martial characters with realism, while creating ever more extremely powerful spells unburdened by realism.
May 22 at 1:26, by Iron Heart
@doppelgreener Pathfinder developer posted something to facebook (or similar, I don't recall exactly) about how weapon cords (like Wii Remote wrist straps; made to make recovering from a disarm easier) were getting nerfed because he wrapped his computer mouse cord around his wrist and spent an afternoon trying to throw it into his hand.
such as this ^
 
Miniman
Miniman
19
Q: Does Pathfinder have the character imbalance problem that D&D 3.X has?

sillyputtyMany agree that D&D 3.X has a tier "problem" (or system or classification, depending upon your preference). I enjoy the basic rule set of 3.X but have a hard time having fun with a system that is so unbalanced. Even when my group and I are all playing lower tier characters, I still feel as though...

pathfinder dnd-3.5e balance
 
trogdor
trogdor
@doppelgreener what? WTF?
 
Magician
Magician
7:13 AM
@doppelgreener Should have spent an afternoon trying to cast magic missile, instead.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@trogdor Yes. So, if you want to be a martial character in a game being developed by that guy, go ahead.
(I recommend against it.)
 
trogdor
trogdor
no way no how
I had enough issues with that in 3.5 thank you very much sir
one of my griefs with that system that 4E did actually manage to assuage
 
Magician
Magician
I'd play 5e out of morbid curiosity, and I would probably have fun doing so. 4e I loved, but I've done it.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Magician "could not cast magic missile, nerfing wizards by removing spellcasting from the game"
 
trogdor
trogdor
yeah,... I don't understand the mindset of trying to make super realism in a game along with things in that exact same game that just flat out are impossible
not even just stuff that doesn't exist, at least yet
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
7:19 AM
because it's meant to simulate super realism in a game where there is also magic.
 
trogdor
trogdor
like light speed spacecraft or something, which may or may not actually be impossible, but outright magic, which as far as I know or think does not actually exist
 
Magician
Magician
@doppelgreener You know, forget magic, it has dual swords.
 
trogdor
trogdor
if a guy can run around casting fireballs, maybe his fighter buddy should not have huge issues holding her weapon in a proper fashion because you (some nerd who develops games for a living XP) have trouble swinging your computer mouse around.
@Magician also this, this is not actually a practical thing IRL
 
Magician
Magician
Spiked chains!
Clearly more things that could be nerfed.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@trogdor yeah, they are not approaching it from that point of view though.
 
trogdor
trogdor
7:22 AM
I mean, I am sure some people have managed it IRL, but even if they have, those same people probably would have been even more awesome using one weapon
and probably a shield in the other hand or something
 
Magician
Magician
Ah, I remember why all of this sounds so familiar. It's because I wrote about it before.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@trogdor Or swordchucks, the greatest weapon in history!
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
@trogdor I've done some renaissance fencing, and two swords can be very effective. But that's rapiers. Longswords or similar would be a different matter entirely.
 
Magician
Magician
Oh, not two swords. This abomination:
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
I think anyone aiming for realism in their medieval combat system, should actually try medieval(-style) combat. Or, at least watch others doing it.
 
Miniman
Miniman
7:31 AM
@Adeptus It might not be a different matter to people who can lift an elephant in one hand, though.
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
@Tritium21 is in stunned silence / has died of a heart attack.
 
Adeptus
Adeptus
@Magician Oh, right. The "we-totally-didn't-copy-Darth-Maul" weapon.
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
Reading how bad they messed up martial classes actually
 
Magician
Magician
@Adeptus It probably has been in AD&D. Definitely in 3.0 PHB, and I think that was before Phantom Menace.
 
Miniman
Miniman
@Tritium21 The question I linked? Or an outside source?
 
trogdor
trogdor
7:34 AM
@Adeptus yeah, my main point is meant to be that that is a really heavy thing
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
the link
 
trogdor
trogdor
one sword pretty dang heavy, 2 swords really heavy
@Magician ah ok, that doesn't seem practical XD
@Miniman that reminds me of a Dr Mcninja comic
there was a huge guy with chain chucks
chain saw nunchucks
 
Magician
Magician
Not practical, but cool, so who cares. One would think that's all the justification D&D would require for anything. But apparently not.
 
trogdor
trogdor
just make every weapon a freaking nunchuck
that's my point
 
Miniman
Miniman
Lol. In case you didn't know, swordchucks come from 8-bit Theater.
 
trogdor
trogdor
7:36 AM
you can't strip all the cool stuff out of martial classes for the sake of realism when people are running around casting magic spells
@Miniman XD nice
 
Miniman
Miniman
@trogdor Still one of my all-time favourite webcomics.
 
trogdor
trogdor
you are making a game, make it fun for the people playing a fighter if you are bothering to make the fighter class
just as an example, there are of course other martial flavors for you to choose from
 
Miniman
Miniman
The worst part is, with the culture of the game suggesting martial classes as easier for new players, the more powerful classes are generally going to be in the hands of the players who are better at the game anyway.
 
trogdor
trogdor
yeah,..
 
Miniman
Miniman
If anything, the martial classes need to be more powerful, or at least require less optimization than casters, not the other way around.
 
trogdor
trogdor
7:40 AM
I mean, I don't really want to go so far as to say no one should be playing D&D, but I will go far enough to say I personally would not relish going back to any D&D system other than maybe 4E, and even then the fights in 4E just take too freaking long
13th age so far looks like it has at least almost everything I miss from D&D without adding in most of the things I did not like in D&D
I mean, I have only played one session of it, but that one session had 3 fights, I think, and none of those fights took 2 hours by itself
and we still got some bits of just role play or NPC chatting in there too
I just still can't get over a guy apparently throwing his mouse around and equating that, apparently, exactly with an experienced fighter swinging around a sword
that is not a logical thought to me
 
Magician
Magician
Two and a half fights, I'd say. With players who've never played in that system before, and using roll20 which we've never used before. Not too shabby.
(you've stomped the rustlings much faster than I expected)
 
trogdor
trogdor
8:02 AM
yeah, I could call that a half fight
but I think, in 4E, that fight would still have taken longer anyway
or it would have been even more astoundingly easy
cause 4E minions die in one hit, and some of us might have had AoE to just wipe them out, or we might have missed a lot more cause there was no such thing as escalation dice in 4E
 
Magician
Magician
13th Age doesn't have auras or zones, two of the things that had the most significant impact on encounter length in 4e, in my experience. It also avoids analysis paralysis, for the most part, by relying on randomization.
 
trogdor
trogdor
yeah, that is why I said 2 contradicting things
 
Magician
Magician
Take flexible attacks: they're kind of at-wills of 4e. But instead of staring at the 3-5 options you have each turn, you roll the die and get 1-2 options afterwards.
 
trogdor
trogdor
4E could have taken more or less time because 4E is actually complicated and very different
and it would depend on more randomness and class/race selection
but it also just takes longer to do combat in 4E as a general rule
 
Miniman
Miniman
8:29 AM
I really think this could use some close votes.
 
 
1 hour later…
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
9:54 AM
MY HOUSE HAS AN INTERNET CONNECTION.
\o/
 
trogdor
trogdor
YAAAAAAAY
fantastic, simply fantastic
 
doppelgreener
doppelgreener
yes!
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
10:14 AM
Good Morning! (No Magician here to steal it…)
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
I don't think he is the only one who would do that honestly
but yes, he is well known for that,.. at least for some people
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
Indeed!
 
trogdor
trogdor
and I mean, he is still technically shown as in the chat
so I don't know if I would even go as far as to say he isn't here to steal it, though he probably won't on this occasion.
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
Oh, you are right. In that case I hope he doesn't return in the next half hour, because by then there will be nothing left to steal.
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
Oh, I remember the last time I came into chat, all naive and drunk on the promise of a morning all of my own.
 
trogdor
trogdor
10:21 AM
I can't protect my mornings cause they are in the same timezone as him XD (or possibly one away, but I am pretty sure it's the same one)
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
But suddenly, with a yoink, he appeared. The Devourer of Dawns, the Misappropriator of Mornings.
 
trogdor
trogdor
yeah, it's pretty tragic
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
10:58 AM
I managed to keep this morning safe from Magician then, instead much of it got sucked up by Empire LARP froth…
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
11:21 AM
Mine was tragically stolen by work.
 
Magician
Magician
12:03 PM
Curses, foiled again.
 
Anaphory
Anaphory
Hahaa!
 
Anders Holmström
Anders Holmström
12:16 PM
Hey, anyone knows a good resource site/collection of links for the Dread RPG?
And yes, I'm one of the many nablets who saw the Table Top episode...
 
trogdor
trogdor
Tower of Dread you mean?
 
Anders Holmström
Anders Holmström
Dread, the table top rpg with a Jenga tower
 
trogdor
trogdor
ah, I thought the name had Tower in it because of said Jenga tower
my mistake then
I have heard of it but I only really know the main mechanic is that Jenga tower
and the rest of it is deciding what you are doing and role play
 
Aaron
Aaron
Morning.
 
trogdor
trogdor
careful saying that while Magician is here XD
 
Aaron
Aaron
12:24 PM
I have told him before he can have my mornings. Just means my work day ends sooner.
 
trogdor
trogdor
lol
honestly, if someone was literally stealing my mornings I would just end up wasting the rest of my day
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
Hullo all. (Time unspecific.)
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@AndersHolmström they've got a couple of magazines in addition to the core book.
@trogdor there is also a tower of dread game IIRC
 
trogdor
trogdor
ah
perhaps I am confused or mistaken,... but if they both use Jenga Towers I can easily see why
similar names is enough though if they don't
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
or maybe not, I thought there was, there is a "Dread House" that is the one I'm thinking of, it's a board/card/rpg that also uses Jenga. basically Dread for kids
(and Dread House is currently $3 on drivethrurpg)
 
trogdor
trogdor
12:35 PM
ah, they do both use it
but if Dread house uses cards it's definitely not the one I heard of
not that I ever personally played a Role Playing Game with Dread in its name before
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
heh. I've run Dread a handful of times. It's one of my favorites
 
trogdor
trogdor
it seems really useful for encouraging mostly role play, while still having something as a mechanic
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
Yeah. And it's got a really nice built in tension that if you're good at storytelling you can use to your advantage. (I'm definitely not there yet)
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
I'm always a fan of mechanics that integrate the feeling that the story or setting or whatever is trying to evoke. That's why I think Dread is so cool. When that tower gets precarious, it's not just the characters that are tense performing an action.
 
trogdor
trogdor
heck, I have played Jenga before, and even recently was at a pick nick where people played it
that in itself was pretty tense
it seems to me it is a pretty ingenious addition to another game
well, at least a game where you are supposed to be tense
that isn't great for every game XD
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
12:54 PM
It would really slow down the action in, say, Toon. For example. =)
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
yeah, it certainly has specific types of games where it's more suitable than others as a mechanic :)
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
So this isn't necessarily an RPG question, per se, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience doing this kind of thing. I'm going to be writing up a journal to be used as a prop in a mega game that I and two other friends will be running.
It is the deranged journal of a man who is caught in a time loop, continually going back in time and killing the new version of himself he encounters in that timeline, and then going back in time again. He's trying to find a way out of the loop, and is thoroughly insane. Anyone got any tips or ideas of how to get into this character's head and just punch out an awesomely creepy journal for players to find?
 
trogdor
trogdor
mk, so how and why is he killing his,.. past self?
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@sillyputty watch groundhog day, and the prestige
 
trogdor
trogdor
I assume there is a reason even if it is a pretty insane one
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
1:10 PM
@sillyputty Two things I think could be useful to make it a nicely creepy read:
1) Use the first-person for everything. "I surprised myself this time, and tried running towards the beach, but I know I couldn't get away with it for long. I drowned myself this time. It was messy, but got the job done".
Using the first person for both people in the narrative can give a nicely confusing twist.
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
@trogdor To start, this is a Cthulhu Universe. He only figures out how to travel back in time because he was a high level scientist exposed to The King In Yellow and it spoke to him. He also takes the Liao drug. So, yes, crazy. But everytime you go back in time in this universe, you actually go to the nearest alternate universe. So he keeps killing alternate universe versions of himself.
He does that because the first time he did it, finding an alternate him made him snap, and now he's trying to reset what he's done and somehow get back to his own universe, if only he can figure out how.
@lisardggY I like that. A lot.
@waxeagle I have! =)
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
Secondly (and somewhat contradictory), be clinical and detached: "#341 involved a rock to the back of the head. Quite similar to #122, except the angle was slightly different, and caused a different fracture to the back of the skull. A second strike was necessary, and there were more convulsions this time, for 8.2 seconds".
 
trogdor
trogdor
@sillyputty so he really didn't like seeing himself the first time, and now it's pretty much a matter of course that he kills his other versions
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
@lisardggY You're a treasure trove of good ideas!
@trogdor Yes. He hates the alternate versions of himself cause they make him feel less "real". And he thinks that maybe, if he kills "himself" in the right way, it might help him get back home. He has other theories about what might do it, too, but they're all equally crazy/fruitless. When you travel back in time, not only do you move dimensions, you destroy your old one. Oops.
 
trogdor
trogdor
does the act of killing his other version also cause his travel?
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
1:21 PM
no
 
trogdor
trogdor
ah
cause I was thinking that would be a motivation for him "maybe if I kill this one the right way I will get back where I came from" kind of thing
 
lisardggY
lisardggY
@sillyputty I'm your one-stop shop for psychotic time-travel murder ideas.
2
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
It does however, allow him to go around the new universe unimpeded while he gathers the materials to do the time travel again
@lisardggY xD
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
1:36 PM
@sillyputty imagine Bill Murray merged with Hugh Jackman
 
Aaron
Aaron
1:55 PM
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
@waxeagle I'm...confused by my feelings upon following your instructions... =P
I think combining those two guys would produce something...terrifying.
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
After two and a half years of having to use online tools to facilitate RPG night, I have managed to find enough people who don't have schedules made of liquid chaos, and I can run an actual game, with REAL dice, in meatspace now. Yay.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
2:16 PM
@sillyputty that'd be the idea :)
@MadMAxJr woo! my real live group got together this past week for the first time in a year!
 
sillyputty
sillyputty
2:37 PM
@MadMAxJr Hooray! Nothing quite like the feel of rolling real live, actual dice.
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
The only thing I'm gonna miss is automated initiative tracking/management.
 
wax eagle
wax eagle
@MadMAxJr heh, do you have a laptop at the table? inCombat can do that :)
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
I'd use roll20's tablet interface, but not everyone coming has a tablet device and I don't have enough loaners. :P
 
Tritium21
Tritium21
3:17 PM
Weird gap at the bottom of chat today
and apparently it was entirely on my end
 
DrewS
DrewS
4:19 PM
Wow. 3 days and your level x 30 gold to get +1 max hp.
So wouldn't any Pathfinder DM that allowed retraining HP have all max HP players?
 
Aaron
Aaron
5:06 PM
@DrewS You don't have to no.
Depends on the DM. Personally I fudge nearly every fight because my players have very powerful characters so letting them all have max HP wouldn't make much of a difference.
But if you are running a "balanced" game then it might make a big difference in which case you might either not allow them to use that section or not give them time to do it.
 
DrewS
DrewS
@Aaron Yeah you're talking about a very large increase in HP, close to double.
 
Aaron
Aaron
Right. But depending on the level of the party it is a significant investment.
 
Zachiel
Zachiel
5:30 PM
@Aaron Such an horrible person you are, mister cop!
 
 
3 hours later…
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
8:18 PM
Amusing. Someone who knew what Cthulthutech was.
A dead game about dead gods.
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
8:48 PM
@MadMAxJr but does it lie dreaming?
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
@Pureferret He does, possibly in a giant robot. At least in that setting.
@Pureferret Also in that setting, the Migo have created a fake alien race, complete with fleets and technologies to invade earth, to make them believe the universe is slightly less filled with horrors than they think and to keep them busy from exploring space and finding them on Pluto.
On top of that, the fake alien race is 95% in the dark on the fact that they're an engineered, fake race and they're not from a galaxy far far away, but from a clone-o-mat.
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
9:12 PM
@MadMAxJr typical mi-go
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
There are no Migo here, nope, nope, look away, here alien race hellbent on destroying humanity, isn't that far more interesting? BYE, DONT LOOK BACK AT US.
Ah.. Elder Ones. Everything is all fine here. Yep. No need to come anywhere near earth. Thanks. Bye.
 
JohnP
JohnP
Hrm. 5e dragonborn bard.
 
MadMAxJr
MadMAxJr
Does that shorten to dragonbard?
 
Pureferret
Pureferret
9:30 PM
@MadMAxJr Dragard...drard...drd...d
 
JohnP
JohnP
DRAGO!!!!
"I must break you"
 

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