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12:45 AM
@BESW Well, there's also the attitude of "surely there's some extremely good reason for it, and the author was not simply running out of coke and living in a four-person shared apartment with the rent due tomorrow. Surely, I am missing something about this system, and would like to learn it."
so not so much the writer itself as figuring there must be understanding about the system itself missing
 
its useful sometimes if theres a con interview clip or a sorta official press release detailing intent, but any work should stand on its own
 
1:01 AM
@JoshuaAslanSmith probably, but the rarity of such information makes those questions a problem
meanwhile I love how this cuts out at a point of perfect suspense
 
@JonathanHobbs ...the flag system was replaced by a slavering Orthrus.
...World of Warcraft definitively proved no American can pronounce "queue."
...10K users turned out to be a figment of our imagination.
 
...10K users are taken away by The Hooded Figures and never seen again. Some citizens have reported seeing these users taken into the dog park, but since citizens are not allowed to use, be in, or think about the dog park, we are ignoring these reports. Don't become a 10K user.
 
@JonathanHobbs lol, was thinking about turning WtNV on for painting background noise, this just sealed it
 
@waxeagle time for me to put some coffee on to brew then do the same
For those curious, here, have a radio show from the friendly desert town of Night Vale:
2
 
1:24 AM
Someday I will try actually listening to that, instead of just following its Twitter feed.
(Audio-only stuff requires a part of my brain that doesn't get exercised a lot.)
 
@BESW It's lovely. And speaking from having shared that situation, I recommend exercising it and listening.
If anything, it's a wonderful reason to just sit and relax for half an hour, and let your brain chill out.
(And my brain is hyperactive enough I need to give it times it can just chill out.)
 
 
2 hours later…
3:22 AM
Anyone have much experience with 13th Age?
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz Maybe @Magician could help.
(I'm looking at top users in the tag, whether their answers are general or specific, and which of them frequent chat.)
 
Don't have anything in the way of a specific question anyway. :P
just kind of generally thinking about throwing together a Bard and not really sure if there are any particularly great choices for spells to poach in terms of synergy.
 
3:46 AM
lol the unintended consequences of me flagging comments on my questions and editing them now that I actually now how to write rpg.se questions
@LessPop_MoreFizz a bit, played for awhile in the beta
 
Might wanna take a little break and let the queue recover.
 
true I am running out of flags
@besw @jonathan hobbs so what is nightvale?
 
Night Vale is "a town in the desert where all conspiracy theories are real," and Welcome to Night Vale is its radio station.
 
lol
Im definitely digging that its in the sw
totally makes sense
 
Imagine A Prairie Home Companion for Lovecraft Country.
 
3:56 AM
the tone reminds me of fallout games (more the original isometric ones) and the books/radio plays for the hitchhikers guide series
 
Night Vale is not in the southwest.
It is no place.
It is every place.
 
Hello
 
(Mainly, it has categorically been stated to be not in Texas.)
 
It is supposed to be "somewhere" in the Southwest.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz "lets talk about safety when taking your children out to play in scrublands and sandwastes" is pretty sw
 
3:58 AM
No, just 'somewhere' and in a desert. Southwest is you projecting. :P
 
there aren't deserts anywhere else in america
 
> I guess the only weird descriptions that I've heard are from Texans, who seem to have a statewide tendency to assume that Night Vale takes place in Texas despite no evidence that it takes place anywhere but "somewhere in the Southwestern United States." I don't remember the exact wording, but we've gotten a few "a podcast about a small town in Texas" descriptions that always confuse me a little.
 
its definitely in america
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz I've played a bard in 13th Age for a few levels. Don't have the book in front of me, though.
 
It should be noted that the only other radio station cited has a 'w' callsign.
 
3:59 AM
anyway gonna be here awhile but its interesting to see what the graveyard shift is (besides BESW who I already know and love)
 
Unless the writers are projecting too, which--given that it's Night Vale--I might believe.
@JoshuaAslanSmith Aw, shucks. [nudges dirt with the toe of his shoe]
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz that means nothing? theres a W--- in every city in america
 
@joshua west of the Mississippi uses K.
 
WJJZ was the smooth jazz station I feel asleep to every night for the majority of my life
I retract my ignorant statement
 
W and K are based on the city of license.
 
4:02 AM
There's also a handful of grandfathered stations like WACO.
 
So I'm gonna stick with what the writers say as the closest thing to concrete.
 
I'm just pointing out the aggressive elusiveness of Night Vale's location. (Also, there is totally a desert up in Maine.)
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz wouldnt that qualify as tundra?
 
The Desert of Maine is a tract of exposed glacial silt (a sand-like substance, but finer-grained than sand) surrounded by a pine forest near the town of Freeport, Maine, in the United States. The Desert of Maine is not a true desert, as it receives an abundance of precipitation, and the surrounding vegetation is being allowed to encroach on the barren dunes. The Desert of Maine originated when the Tuttle family purchased and began farming the site beginning in 1797. Failure to rotate their potato crops, combined with land clearance and followed by overgrazing by sheep, led to soil er...
 
I hate using wikipedia as a source but...
 
4:06 AM
There is sand!
 
it explicitly states that it is not a real desert
because of precipitation
 
It is a desert!
 
its a salt flat
 
holds up kings x sign to ward against ponies
 
4:08 AM
I mean, if we want to get technical, it's a tourist trap.
But you say Potato...
 
haha
I also dislike citing the US gov't but they don't define it as a desert either.
 
That said, there are definitely non southwestern deserts in places like Wyoming.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz No, it's not a potato either. That's Idaho.
 
But those are less fun to cite than the desert of Maine.
 
4:12 AM
there may be semi-arid regions
but that doesnt make them actual deserts
 
The Red Desert is a high altitude desert and sagebrush steppe located in south central Wyoming, comprising approximately 9,320 square miles (24,000 km²). Among the natural features in the Red Desert region are the Great Divide Basin, a unique endorheic drainage basin formed by a division in the Continental Divide, and the Killpecker Sand Dunes, the largest living dune system in the United States. In the 19th century, the Oregon, California and Mormon Trails tracked through the northern and western regions of the Red Desert after crossing the Continental Divide at South Pass. Today, ...
 
Jumping in, though, I don't remember anything said explicitly, but in my mind it was always somewhere Nevada-ish.
 
I would just consider that part of the great basin but that actually makes your point
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Not salt, not flat.
[has a friend taking geology on the line]
 
@Metool I would defer. My specialty is Geo-graph-y.
 
4:45 AM
Hmmm. Trying to identify a musical theme for my port city of mercenary-minded elves.
 
@besw totally a shanty or cadence
 
I'm looking for something instrumental and decadent.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:18 AM
@trogdor [wave]
 
hi
lol
 
Did you see on Skype that this weekend I've got the Bahá'í National Convention thing, so no Geek Night?
 
yeah
I saw that
 
If you wanna come to the Saturday night entertainment, you're welcome to.
Last year was the showing of Frontiers of Learning, but this year it looks to be more of a variety show with people doing performances of various kinds.
 
at the moment I am thinking I will just use that day off to relax
after I am done with my volunteer stuff I mean
 
6:23 AM
Fair enough.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz Did you mean, in your question, "If a Bard Jacks a Cyclical spell..."?
Or can a Sorcerer access the ability in question?
 
my mind might change on that later though
mostly I think I am just tired right now
 
6:46 AM
Good morning.
 
Heyo, even.
 
7:08 AM
Here's a good trouble for a Fate character: More curious than cautious.
 
7:18 AM
I have a character with a similar trouble
Boundless Incessant Curiosity
 
8:02 AM
gots some story questions up in my Rap Session, I tagged BESW since it's stemmed from an earlier convo we had in there... but thought I might ask the community their opinions as well. Basically my party is fighting against a Ninja faction, who incedentally are only working for the bad guy to fund their true goal. that true goal actually aligns with a goal of the party. 1 questions are in my rap Sesh right now
Should I reveal the Ninjas ultimate plan to the group, and if so how?
 
8:25 AM
It's a bit late for this to be very helpful for @MC_Hambone, so I'm going to make my experience-based observation about ninjas in general chat:
Most of the time when a GM suddenly introduces ninjas to a campaign, it's because he needed to perform a bit of in-game GM fiat.
Because of this, I've found that "suddenly ninjas" is a symptom of a campaign that isn't very healthy--usually it's "gone off the rails" or the GM allowed something which he needs to take back, but he doesn't want to admit it to the players.
 
Well, that could be the case - but it could also be "ninja's are awesome" ? :)
 
The problem is twofold: first that ninjas are a bad solution, because unless they are literally Empowered With The Might Of The GM, their interference can be stopped or interrupted--and if they are Almighty Avatars Of Plot, the players will likely call foul.
Like gods and horrors, once ninjas get stats they can be fought and defeated.
(And that frankly makes them less awesome, in the film-ninja sense, because they don't follow the victory/defeat rules of film-based storytelling.)
The second problem is more systemic; if ninjas are being used to Make Right What Went Wrong, that's liable to be a temporary band-aid fix to a deeper problem which should be resolved.
 
I seem to recall you using ninjas in a campaign
 
@trogdor ooooo
 
Yes. I'm speaking from experience on both sides of the table.
 
8:34 AM
but the situation was that they were part of a PC's backstory
they were in there because he was paranoid about ninjas who attacked his monk order,.... sooo
I seem to recall that they were planned basically from the start, or close to it
 
Kinda. He put that in his backstory, but told me he'd be okay if the ninjas themselves never showed up in the game.
 
and they didn't show up till the campaign ended, so it really wasn't a last minute fix kinda thing
or at least it didn't seem like it, at any rate
 
Actually, the campaign never ended, it just fizzled out about 1/3 of the way through.
And I did my best to make them seem natural, but I was using them as a goad to get the party back onto the plotline.
Well, that and we had a group that would start killing each other if we didn't fight at least once a session, and Suddenly Ninjas helped justify that when I couldn't think of anything else.
 
The ninja in my game were originally just the go betweens between an as-of-yet unrevealed main bad guy and the death cult he was using the as Vecna about how to resurrect Tiamat. Currently after some world building questions I have found more in the story I could use the ninjas for, but don't know if I should
the short term fix they could have been used for was just to delay the party from getting all the info about the big bad guy all at once, but @BESW helped me come up with a much more fun non-combat encounter to take care of delaying the info dump
not sure if it's a bandaid or not since I am not trying to hide everything for all time, just turn the faucet of knowledge down from torrent to dribbles ;)
 
@BESW well, that is a kind of ending though
 
8:42 AM
Fair enough.
 
I do understand though
 
So far the Fate reboot has not yet found room for gnome ninjas--what with there not being any gnomes in the world--but professional assassins of some sort might exist.
 
in the context of the current topic, it was not supposed to be the ending
eh
they did seem mostly connected to a character, attached to a player, who isn't here to participate
 
This is another problem with Suddenly Ninjas: now there are ninjas in your story. If you're not at the very end of the campaign, what do you DO with them?
This is the problem Hammy is currently wrestling with.
 
Yep, now there are ninjas... and what do I do with them moving forward.. :P
Kinda related to this.... anyone else run into what i am gonna call the "story teller dilemma"? I like to tell intricate stories. i like to lay the ground work for epic things early so that when I reveal things later on the players get a sense of "ohhhh that's what that thing from a few levels ago meant"
....but players arent puppets and doing this seeding well is difficult with out forcing it on people
so i find myself abandoning things left and right XD
 
8:56 AM
Yes, but I've gotta go afk for a while. I'll talk about it later.
 
sounds good man... I sohould actually be going to bed shortly anyway
recovering from a cold so I need a good night sleep
I'll see you guys later.... if you have anything to add to the ninja thing, feel free to post in my Rap Session chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/13829/mc-hambones-rap-session
g'night folks!
 
 
1 hour later…
10:06 AM
Okay, so it took me a while to figure out that the kind of stories I can tell as a GM are very different from the kind of stories I can tell as a writer.
Specifically, I can't expect things.
You say you like to "lay the ground work for epic things" and then "reveal things later." I've been there.
And it's possible! The trick is doing it in an RPG way rather than a novel/film way.
There are two techniques I've found useful, and one is divided further into two subgroups: Xanatos gambits are the first, and the hardest, but the best for actually achieving what you're envisioning.
But Xanatos gambits are a kind of illusionism (providing the illusion of free will to the players without actually giving them any significant choices).
(Note: I'm not talking about an NPC enacting a Xanatos gambit--that's nearly impossible to pull off because PCs are masters of taking a third option you didn't expect. No, I'm talking about engineering your whole setting so that all paths lead to the final confrontation.)
The other technique is to be ready to roll with the players and pretend you meant it to happen that way all along.
This is a lot easier if your players talk to each other a lot about what they think is happening.
In this kind of game, I set up a lot of stuff that could be really cool, but I don't get invested in any of it. I just see which things my players are interested in, and I build on that, letting the other things fall to the side.
As a really blunt example, I can prepare the first session of three very different missions and give the players the option of choosing--say, but having three WANTED posters they see.
The mission they choose, I start building more stuff for. The missions they ignore, I ignore, unless and until they head back and ask "Hey, is that other mission still available?"
(At which point I probably decide that no, it's not, but because they didn't take it something happened which makes a related mission.)
This is where it branches into two different approaches: one is to have a living, breathing world full of stuff going on which the players may or may not notice. This usually winds up burning out the GM from putting lots of effort into stuff that never gets used.
The other is to make a world of cutouts with just enough prep to get you through the first encounter with any given thing they're likely to come up against.
If you do that, then you have the opportunity to actively create a body for the cutout which is based on what the party's done in the past--thus making it look like you expected that stuff to happen all the time.
But in the end, all of this is just a fancy way of saying that the only way you'll ever get to have exactly the campaign you envisioned is if your players are willing to be led by the nose like docile sheep, or if you can consistently and transparently outsmart them.
Most of us can't or won't do that, so we find other kinds of stories to tell.
For example, instead of setting up cool events which I want to happen, I set up cool interactions which are happening and have the potential to lead to cool events in the future.
The pirate king of Barathra is taking over the local trade routes, and the Order of the Enlightened Hand is preaching that magic items are inherently evil, and the apostate catfolk are attacking caravans which leave the gnome city.
What will happen? Well, if the pirate king isn't stopped he'll come to blows with the Order because he wants to traffic in magic goods, and he'll go to war with the catfolk tribes (not just the apostates, because he doesn't know the difference) to protect his land trade routes. The Order will side with the catfolk in the war, and the gnome city will starve because the soldiers on both side commandeer their food and trample their fields.
Now anything the players do is likely to disrupt that balance, but it's very unlikely to make the events less awesome, and because I know the motives and interactions between the factions I can pretty easily adjust the world in response to the players.
(There's probably something going on with the gnome city itself, too--maybe they're trying to develop dirigibles so they can fly over the catfolk attackers and create a new set of trade routes out of the pirate king's control.)
If that's the case, then the party might be asked to steal the gnomes' dirigible tech so the Order can drop bombs on the pirate's armies, and then they're given the option of instead selling it to the pirate king.
No matter what happens you'll probably get dirigible battles (an awesome thing you planned for!), but the party's given a major and meaningful choice about how it goes down.
2
Aaand I think that's all I've got on that for now.
Questions, comments, compliments, complaints?
Oh, one last thing that just occurred to me, and it comes from a set of essay-topic-focusing questions my mother uses with her students:
- What was the status quo?
- What has happened to change the status quo?
- What could the response to that change be?
Use questions like that to create the beginning of awesome stories, and see what awesome endings your players create for them.
 
10:59 AM
...well, at least I got a star out of that Wall o' Text.
 
11:16 AM
Nice Wall-O-Text! :)
I was out to lunch.
 
Any thoughts/experiences on the subject?
 
Of course. Just none that can do more justice than your wonderfully worded and masterly crafted wall-o-text.
I tend towards the world of cutouts as you put it.
But I also create a rich setting beneath that world when I can.
I like world-building. I have a huge world I have already made a lot for.
 
When I start a long campaign I generally make a choice: small setting with pre-made detail or big setting with broad strokes?
 
And when I play - the campaign itself uses "cutouts" but the world it's in is one I have much knowledge of.
 
Generally I create a whole new world for each campaign, partly because I always have new ideas and partly because I get tired of the old ones.
 
11:29 AM
This was back when I played a lot of D&D.
 
Oh, even with D&D, I never went back. In college my games lasted one or two semesters and then we'd start a new campaign in a new world.
Of course, they were all very similar compared to non-D&D worlds, but they were distinct and had different themes and cultures.
 
The main reason I would use my own world is because I hate magic in D&D.
It's done so horribly wrong. And the world just doesn't work for me if I start introducing a world full of mages.
It could be interesting to explore a world where there is magic all over - and no on farms anymore because "create food and water" is much easier.
There are no more blacksmiths, woodsmen, anything basic is pretty much replaced with magic...
But I don't like that.
I like the grittier world.
So I made one that works for me.
In my created world, arcane magic is very rare - and only appeared a few hundred years ago, random individuals got magic, and their bloodlines begot more individuals who could use magic. The first ones of a bloodline are sorcerers, and the rest are wizards (D&D mechanics). The narrative is that those who are the progenitors are limited only by themselves (mechanically: not limited to any magic) and the wizards need to learn magic like wizards, from libraries and books...
But since magic is rare and young - there are not many powerful spells, and those that do exist are guarded, and usually kept in families.
New magical bloodlines are rare.
So here is a world where those with magic after a few hundred years rose to the top of the food-chain - becoming lords, and kings. And keeping the magic close to their family.
That is arcane magic.
In my world, there is also divine magic, in two forms. Spiritual (druids, rangers, etc..) and gifted, (clerics, paladins)
The spiritual magic comes from observance of nature, or being taught by other spiritual casters.
So they only know spells that they could observe naturally.
Like a lightning storm, tanglings vines, water breathing..
And only those related to their own environment.
Gifted magic (or devout magic) comes from religious prayer and fervor.
There are gods in this world, but they are very distant, they have enabled limited use of their divine power to grant spells to their clergy.
It is granted based on the position in the hierarchy. So the individuals who are followers of a god must be granted his favor to cast spells. This favor comes from that gods church, and they must earn it by gaining ranks in the clergy.
That reduces the power of magic across the board. Mechanically it remains mostly unchanged, only very limited - and narrativly it is much more gritty.
 
Interesting.
 
The common folk know of magic, it is something they can also see (mostly through their churches) but it is out of reach of almost every one.
Yes, I really liked this world.
I dunno if you can see this: docs.google.com/document/d/…
 
11:47 AM
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Hi again!
 
@ravn If you're going to edit tag excerpts, edit the tag wikis too, please.
 
@InbarRose Nope, I'd need to request permissions.
 
@BESW hi and bye.
 
@BESW Then I'll need your email.
 
Access requested.
There it is!
 
11:49 AM
That's just an excerpt of part of my world setting that is about magic.
A better wording of what I already wrote here.
Would you like me to share my campaigns repository with you?
You might find it interesting, and I always love an audience!
Keep in mind I wrote most of this years ago.
 
If you like, but I won't be able to sift through it any time soon.
 
I understand.
Tell me when you get the share.
 
Got it.
 
Cool.
There is even a "read order" for you :)
 
^^
 
12:02 PM
If you are reading any of it - I would like to know what you are reading, and what you think of it :)
 
Let the blood flow like cheap wine in the parking lot of a high school reunion
 
@Lord_Gareth Vomiting blood never helps.
 
@BESW Well played
 
12:17 PM
Nice imagery though.
@BESW Did you read any of the material I shareD?
 
"not any time soon" may be measured in days, not hours, I'm afraid.
 
Okay. I was just wondering :)
 
Well @BESW, now to see what you do with this: HAIL UNTO THEE, @RAVN, WHOSE AVVIE IS A BIRD
 
@BrianBallsun-Stanton Sorry, I wasn't aware of the difference, should've read the descriptions. I'll stop now, just thought I was helping out :)
 
You re-jogged my memory and invigorated me to re-read a bunch of it! :)
 
12:19 PM
you're a bird
 
There is history here, @Ravn
 
@Metool I did mean that, but actually, Sorcerers have roughly the same ability (they are restricted to only stealing Wizard spells, but can take more than one at a lower level) and it raises the same question.
 
Now to see what BESW's move is....
 
what happened to meta?
 
@waxeagle I ate it
[Has no idea]
 
12:21 PM
it appears community edited everything
 
What're you doing?
 
@Lord_Gareth Ceci n'est pas une oiseau.
 
ah community is changing MSO -> MSE
 
@BESW Can I get that again in Horrible Barbarian Language - erm, I mean. English?
 
12:29 PM
lol barbarian only in the Chinese use of the word.
 
Goodmorning
 
I don't get asian restaurants that put takeaway noodles in flat plastic boxes rather than square cardboard boxes. Have they no respect for tradition? No sense of junk-food pride?!
 
@lisardggY River? :P
 
@InbarRose Go Noodles, but River are guilty of this as well.
 
12:34 PM
I hate em both. I can't order Asian food delivery here. It's too expensive, not filling, arrives cold, and it's not tasty.
 
I only saw the foldy cardboard takeout boxes with the cute metal handles on TV until I went to the mainland for college.
It's foam boxes with tab-in-slot-fastened all-in-one lids for pretty much everybody here.
 
Foam boxes are pretty rare these days.
 
Yep
 
Aren't they supposed to be environmentally horrific or something?
 
What he said ^
 
12:36 PM
Also, no metal handles here. Only cardboard.
@InbarRose I live 50 meters from the Giraffe, 75 meters from Go Noodles and 90 meters from the Sushiya, so I usually get takeaway rather than order in, so it's still fresh.
 
Well - That's great for you!
I just walk downstairs to this great Argentinian Diner.
Great meat. Yum.
 
We have a takeout place. I figured out the boxes they send the noodles in are actually meant to be opened up and used like a plate.
 
Yeah - that is well known.
 
God I miss good food
 
I just clicked the unanswered list entirely by accident and saw this:
 
12:38 PM
My GF is a good cook but she is always experimenting with uber healthy stuff.
 
:(
I feel your pain.
 
We are pretty good at answering things I think.
 
Hey, there's my question!
 
@JonathanHobbs Superior dice rolling
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith I dunno about that when I might've rolled a 1 on my click attempt
 
12:55 PM
@Aaron uber healthy stuff can be yummy. I recommend she check out ohsheglows.com you'll be happy if she does
 
I used D&D rules on another SE site to get my most-upvoted answer yet: gamedev.stackexchange.com/a/73787/31345
 
Tonight I made burgers out of black beans, onion, and a handful of spices, mashed by hand with flour to make it stick together and cooked in a little olive oil.
@Dane We occasionally get computer game designers here asking about RPG elements they can use, so... makes sense.
 
@BESW I'd be down with that. I've had some good bean patties. Prefer red meat for my burgers, but a well seasoned bean burger is pretty good
 
Definitely. Especially since the guy sounds like he's building a rogue-like.
 
@Dane the other option is to treat squares as a discrete unit of measure like 4e does
 
1:01 PM
@waxeagle I'm not a vegetarian, but I dislike beef. And my mother is mostly vegetarian (roughly vegan-ish, with fish and cheese on top), so it's just generally easiest to have the home meals be meatless.
 
@BESW makes perfect sense. My wife keeps threatening to turn us vege/vegan too many things we'd miss though
she's got a pretty good stable of very tasty meatless stuff though that makes you not miss it a meal at a time
 
We do stuff with Tender Bits and certain kinds of vegetarian sausage, but mostly we don't try to pretend something's meat if it's not--Bad Food comes of trying to fake things.
Lately we've been experimenting with stuffed rolls. Make a simple whole wheat pizza dough, roll it flat and spread/sprinkle something on it, then roll it up and cut it like cinnamon rolls to bake.
Melt something on top or whip up a little dipping sauce if you like, and you get a quick simple meal, just add salad on the side.
We experiment with the "something" for the filling every night.
Beans and cheese for a nacho-like experience, diced sweetened apples for a tart/turnover type thing, fried crumbled veggie burger and onion scramble, thick bean soup...
 
@waxeagle See: bacon
 
I'm trying to think of a way to do tuna rolls without the dough absorbing all the moisture from the tuna and sauce. Maybe use cheese to hold it together.
 
Boca I feel is probably the best commercially available veg burger
 
1:07 PM
@waxeagle The key element here is "well seasoned". Almost all veg/vegan burgers I've tried, in vegan restaurants specializing in tofu/okara/bean burgers, were bland and tasteless.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith and gelato and a bunch of other ones
 
Boca does have some decent options.
But home-made burgers.... well, you can make them out of nearly anything.
 
Oh, hey, I can see upvotes/downvotes now.
 
I mean vegan is just wrong, vegetarian makes sense for certain people with dietary restrictions due to health or religion (just my take though)
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith vegan can be health motivated, militant veganism is just wierd
 
1:08 PM
@besw you think I should wait another whole day before I get in more edits and throw out more flags on my own questions?
 
@Metool Things will never be the same again.
 
Ive pretty much only seen the militant kind or people who did for health reasons but I feel like they were misinformed.
 
@lisardggY yeah, I've heard that complaint directed at vege/vegan food, and I can see it, but it doesn't have to be like that :(
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith I'd base it on turnover rate; wait until the top ten/twenty questions are recent again.
 
some edits on recent meta stuff would be good if y'all have time. it's all out of whack
 
1:10 PM
though most people I know swing the otherway in my family because of celiacs and the like
 
@waxeagle I know. The answer I have to most people who claim that vegan food is tasteless is that most of the food that meat-eaters already eat is already vegan - side dishes and salads and so many things that are tasty.
 
Drain your leftover soup (and chop/blend the bigger bits), mix it with oats and egg, or just flour and water, until it can be made into a patty.
 
honestly been trying to get my mother to go paleo (my wife does primal) and shes resistant because, "how can you eat that much meat and it be healthy?" But really its 30 percent protein, 30 percent fat, and 40 percent vegetables and fruits.
@lisardggY generic problem with "American cuisine" if your not eating ethnic chances are the 3 seasonings are salt, sugar, and butter and thats it
 
My mother became vegetarian in the days when people thought you'd probably die if you didn't eat meat, so vegetarians had to know a LOT about what they were and weren't eating and understand nutritional health.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Hmm, yes. Due to kosher laws, the default here is almost always vegetable or olive oil.
 
1:13 PM
makes sense
 
And we live on the edge of cultures where meat is a condiment more often than it's a main dish by itself, which helps.
 
No lard or butter used for pastries or anything.
 
crazy to me that you live in the middle east and food is at want for seasoning
 
Well, butter is often used, but for things designated as dairy.
@JoshuaAslanSmith Oh, there's no lack of seasoning. It's specifically the vegan-burger places that fail to make them interesting.
 
yep separate pans etc. I have a smattering of kosher knowledge from a good jewish friend I had growing up
oh okay
 
1:14 PM
Well, that restaurant specifically has a big falafel-burger, which is ok.
Ridiculous, but ok. :)
 
you mean there arent sweet harissa veg burgers?
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith I'd eat that.
 
@lisardggY [sigh] Falafel just doesn't taste the same without fava beans, and they react poorly with my dad's medicines.
 
@BESW Egyptian falafel is usually made with fava beans. Israeli/palestinian/jordanian falafel is usually chick-pea only.
 
1:16 PM
@lisardggY shame, some cumin, red pepper and tahini would go along way to making a vege burger taste good
 
Ooh, more flags/day.
 
And a good thing too, since my wife is sharply allergic to fava beans.
 
OR ZATAR! dude a zatar veg burger oh man
 
@waxeagle Tahini is the basic food staple for vegans here.
 
Fava beans stimulate the same chemical processes that one of my dad's most crucial medicines does, but in much less controllable amounts.
 
1:17 PM
@lisardggY Loves me some isreali falafel
 
@lisardggY If only we could get it in smaller jars... it regularly goes bad before we can use it all.
 
@BESW Vacuum seal?
 
@BESW can you make your own instead?
then you just keep roasted sesame around and make it on demand
 
@BESW What kind do you get there, the thinner, watery, prepared tahini, or the raw paste-like kind?
The raw one can keep for years, I think.
 
@besw it looks like tahini is freezeable
 
1:19 PM
This stuff is the only kind we can find on island:
And no, it's not practical for us to make our own.
 
It's less the item itself, a tomato, a falafel, a carrot whatever.. and it's more the source. Israel (and other places with similar climates) has such great tasting produce that anything you eat here is so much richer.
Falafel in Israel is just better.
 
@InbarRose I'll attest to that.
 
Every time we had to fend for ourselves for food at the International Convention last year, it was falafel stands for me.
 
1:25 PM
@BESW If you have ever been here in the spring, you would have had tons of fruits and vegetables that are very ripe and fresh to eat. (like now) yum yum! :)
 
@waxeagle perfect example of why the alignment system/concept is terribly broken and silly
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith yes
 
its one of those D&Dism that will never die though
 
@InbarRose Does late April/early May count? 'cause that's when I was there last year, and they gave us oranges from the Garden of Ridván outside Akká.
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Any changes to the system in vNext?
 
1:28 PM
hey looks like I can start reading d20monkey again though now that hes done with this years silly christmas story again
@lisardggY NOt really, maybe a regression from 4es stance that it has no mechanical bearing really
 
(Not to be confused with the Garden of Ridván in Baghdad, which is more theologically significant but is understandably less accessible--even if it weren't now a hospital complex.)
 
its there but without any rules explanation
 
@lisardggY IIRC it brings back the 9 rather than the simpler set 4e had
@JoshuaAslanSmith aw you don't like his Xmas arcs? I loves them
 
I was okay with the last two, this last one was just not there for me
like hard to get worked up about bretts GF not being allowed on the north pole
 
fair enough, was a bit off, and the injury time off right in the middle hurt it too
 
1:32 PM
stakes were low, but in comic it was a big deal
yeah theres that as well
d20 monkey is great when its a webcomic about gaming and just a run of the mill webcomic when its about anything else (for me)
 
 
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