TRPG General Chat

BESW

10:27 PM

@petex Hi!

Zachiel

grfghlghg Gareth has fled

petex

oh well first time here :)

Zachiel

welcome then

BESW

What's up? Anything particular on your mind?

petex

so the good news is its not full of ponies..

the chat room i mean

BESW

10:30 PM

Not at the moment, anyway.

2

petex

i am just figuring out how this works,

do i ask a question in here, or should i post it first then talk about it therE?

here

BESW

Well, the chat is primarily a "pressure valve" for stuff that isn't appropriate on the main site, like subjective discussion and sharing anecdotes.

Official site activity should happen on the main site and the meta site.

DuckTapeal

So, if you've got a question that doesn't really fit the main site, asking i here can help.

petex

if it is rpg related, it should fit the main site,

BESW

That said, sometimes chat is useful for workshopping questions or answers that aren't quite coming together properly, and yes, things that don't fit the main site are often useful fodder here.

Joshua Aslan Smith

10:33 PM

hahahahaha

@petex I agree with you

but sometimes the ponies come out

BESW

@petex Well, Stack Exchange, being a Q&A site instead of a forum, has more stringent guidelines than many other RPG sites.

petex

so how do i post a question from the site here ?

like shatterspike1 did a few lines above?

BESW

If you want to link to a site question in chat, post the link as its own line.

petex

@BESW ok..

DuckTapeal

You can't use the chat to ask questions on the main site.

Oh, sorry, misread.

petex

10:37 PM

@ DuckTapeal :>

hm, how does the '@' work ?

@DuckTapeal hm ?

ahhhh

BESW

There ya go.

petex

got it

:)

kool, so lets try a new question on the site first and then post it here....

Lord_Gareth

@BESW - So you slept entirely through the Drama Train pulling into the station, crushing everyone's hopes and dreams, and then tearing away.

DuckTapeal

Choo Choo!

BESW

@Lord_Gareth And look what I woke up to in my Twitter feed.

DuckTapeal

10:40 PM

For some reason it's not letting me see the pic.

OH wait, I'm just dumb right now.

Zachiel

@petex Well you got only half. You can use it without linking it to a prevous post, just by typing it without spaces.

@petex Also, there should be an automatic feed telling us a new question was posted. I don't know if this is true for all browsers.

petex

@Zachiel typing 'it' without spaces... there are no spaces in 'it'

arg, i wish that beer i started would start its effect already on me..

This question body does not meet our quality standards. Please make sure that it completely describes your problem - including what you have already tried - and is written using proper grammar.

oh, kay,

Joshua Aslan Smith

@petex you can post your question in its entirety here and we can "workshop it" for you before you actually post it on the site

we as users may not know the answer to your question but theres a lot of high rep users in chat who certainly know how to write questions that meet rpg.se guidelines (myself included)

petex

0

Q: When does it make sense to roll behind a screen

I was wondering what is the point to roll behind a screen as a GM. If nobody can see the roll then i could claim that i rolled any number i require, right? If i would have to show the roll, then why rolling behind the screen in the first place. I do like the idea that nobody hides the rolls, b...

ok, it worked,

Zachiel

10:56 PM

I think there's already a wquestion on that line, let me look for it

BESW

Well, there's this one for Fate, which tells me that asking it as a general system-agnostic question probably won't fly.

Joshua Aslan Smith

there @petex did a quick edit on your question

petex

@BESW as a player i would not believe in fate

Joshua Aslan Smith

@petex what game system are you using right now

petex

dnd 4e

Joshua Aslan Smith

10:59 PM

@petex Fate is an RPG system, thats what besw is referencing, not the concept of fate

petex

but system really does not matter

Joshua Aslan Smith

@petex I added the 4e tag to the system

I get that you are asking in generalish, but different systems have different ways of handling hidden gm rolls, when you should and should not, etc.

BESW

@petex It really does, because some systems are built on assumptions about that kind of thing, and break in weird ways if those assumptions aren't met.

Zachiel

@petex ouch, are we really getting into this sort of conversation?

BESW

Fate-based games assume most everything is open and visible for the players, because its mechanics are based on players making informed decisions; by contrast the game Paranoia needs the GM to be secretive in order for its themes to function.

petex

11:01 PM

^^, i am still learning, things get better, slowly

BESW

With a system tag, it becomes a good question.

Joshua Aslan Smith

dont worry petex we are open to helping you

just keep up the good attitude you have and it should be okay

petex

i might need a good psychiatrist

BESW

That's probably a little beyond our scope.

DuckTapeal

I hearby nominate @BESW for understatement of the year.

2

petex

11:07 PM

^^,
i like the idea of not hiding my rolls, but it has some disadvantages

BESW

4e is usually balanced assuming that players have all necessary mechanical information to make good decisions. There's nothing wrong with a group deciding they don't want to play that way, but it's going to make 4e go a little wobbly.

The more that players are able to consciously recognise the divide between player knowledge and character knowledge, the more options will open up to you in the regard--but the group has to have a common consensus about how they're going to use that divide.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@petex check my post

petex

that's the reason why i ask, player vs characker

Joshua Aslan Smith

@besw I feel that my answer isnt against 4e raw rules, please let me know if it is

0

A: When should a GM roll behind the GM Screen?

Opposed skill checks When players are rolling diplomacy against an NPC, they are trying to bluff/deceive an NPC, or are trying to use insight to not be bluffed or deceived themselves and you choose to handle it through dice (vs. roleplay) you should roll for the NPC in secret. NPC actions occu...

BESW

That seems reasonable.

petex

11:13 PM

yes, bluffing, that hits it,

Joshua Aslan Smith

and my wife is now annoyed at me being on SE vs. watching antiques roadshow with her so with that I am off, see you guys around, petex have fun using rpg.se totally changed my rpg life when I joined this site.

petex

but, then again, if i roll behind the screen i can claim a natural 20 ..

BESW

4e doesn't really say a lot about its policy on transparency, but in my experience it plays better the more transparent it gets.

Joshua Aslan Smith

@petex crit fail and success doesnt matter w/skill checks

you should roll all attack rolls and damage rolls int he open

BESW

More importantly, it's a matter of trust.

Joshua Aslan Smith

11:13 PM

LEAVING NOW!

petex

yes, that's why i like to not roll behind the screen

so if i would roll behind a screen, i can claim any number i want, basically its up to me if i want the player to succeed or not

not sure if i got it right yet

BESW

When I starting GMing I rolled everything in the open and was pretty scrupulous about following the rules. As my group became more comfortable with each other, I would sometimes ask them to bear with me while I did things which didn't make sense or seem fair, and if I was unsure how to proceed I'd just talk with them about it.

Now I'm using systems where that's a basic part of the game--making decisions together, rather than handing them down from on high.

petex

@BESW making decisions together, how does that work ?

BESW

Depends on the game and the group.

In some games, for example, rolling a successful spot check lets the player decide what he sees, inventing some new part of the setting or story.

In almost any game, I've found that when I don't know what to do next --especially when I have two or three equally cool ideas and can't choose-- I can just present the choice to my players and we talk it out.

petex

i might give that a try

BESW

11:22 PM

But anything like that is predicated on having a group that feels like everyone at the table is a group of friends participating in a game, rather than having a "GM vs players" mentality where the GM is an obstacle to the players' success.

petex

we play dnd 4e, at least my understanding of it as of now

BESW

The more a game is seen as collaborative storytelling, the easier it is for the group to actually collaborate without artificial rifts between GM and players.

petex

but we also add some house-rules, to make it more interesting

Zachiel

11:51 PM

@petex Even if you don't roll behind a screen, you still can declare the modifier you want. The ideal condition would be telling the modifier to players, before rolling.

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith trying to figure out how to illustrate this and struggling, might have to build a model to get it straight in my head.

Zachiel

@petex BESW, here, has a good understanding of how 4E works, having tinkered with it in more ways than should be allowed to a single man. Magician has a blog where 4e is often featured, I'm a 4E DM with a passion for game design theory and wax eagle, Trogdor and IIRC Joshua are also 4E players. Except maybe for Magician who's not often here (when I am) lately, we're all at each other's disposal when it comes to understanding a game

BESW

Magician's blog helped me a lot with understanding the system's strengths and weaknesses (I came from 3.5 to 4e, and had a lot of baggage from that experience), and how to.... not exactly homebrew, but how to bend the system in interesting ways, especially as related to designing combat challenges.

Zachiel

Now I'm really curious about what did not satisfy your group and how you solved it. Knowing myself, I know I'll to be pretty enthusiastic or very critical depending on your choices, so if you don't want me to criticize your homebrew toy just tell me ;)

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