The Reading Room

12:33 AM

Strangely enough, I can only find one discussion about it on Meta SE.

@Riker No, it's literal.

And orange.

is this a thing you can't take a screenshot of or can you and post it here

@HDE226868 where does it show up? on your profile under a moderation tab?

Clicking on the "mod" button gives me more info.

ah cool

The vacation button is one button on the mod page.

the blue 4 is mod flags?

12:36 AM

Yes.

what's the diamond for then? other mod tools/notices?

That's on Worldbuilding.

@Riker Notifications.

pretty cool

I.e. new meta posts or mod messages/responses.

ah nice

TIL mods have shinyish buttons

Q: Did Rand think that people in the real world were that stupid?

2:24 AM

@Hamlet re: authorial intention, I like your answer. I haven't upvoted it yet coz "asking about authors' intentions is a different, and less important, question than asking about a texts meaning* needs at the very least an apostrophe in text's, and ideally a singular author to match the singular text. I can't edit as that's fewer than six characters.

Bookworm

2:40 AM

0

Atlas Shrugged is a novel that was written for the purpose of expressing Ayn Rand's philosophy, Objectivism. Generally speaking, barring those setbacks placed in their way by non-Objectivists, the Objectivist characters of Rand's books ultimately accomplish great things and live happy lives. The ...

atlas-shrugged ayn-rand

I also agree that folks who have been raising objections to that answer should write their own. And I agree with @BESW that an answer needs to be written that addresses New Criticism, reader-response, Barthes, etc., but I don't think it's incumbent on @Hamlet to revise his answer to include that stuff. It's a decent enough stab at a difficult issue, and I'm lazy enough myself that asking people to do more work after they've done a decent job would violate the Golden Rule. 🙂

I see this a lot in comments on this site, btw; someone writes an answer, someone else chips in with "you should do X, Y, and Z in addition." I find that puzzling. That commentator clearly has some ideal answer in mind already, so why doesn't s/he just write one?

To this specific issue, @BESW, you're clearly well acquainted with the history of criticism and theory around this issue, so I hope you do write a more historically and theoretically informed answer. You're certainly better qualified than most of us here AFAIK in that regard.

If I have the time and energy, I will.

But my relationship with Anglosphere lit crit is more like somebody studying Christianity to better argue with doorknockers.

@Standback I followed the link in your bio to SSS&S, and think I might join; it looks like fun. Will there be a discussion this week? There's nothing on the schedule

And thanks @Hamlet for the nomination. I've not looked at the slate yet, but I kinda sorta assumed that between folks like Mithrandir, Rand al'Thor, and yourself, the site would have enough pro team mods.

@BESW funnily enough I was an atheist working as a kitchenmaid in a Catholic seminary, and the priests and seminarians would frequently encourage me to sign up. A somewhat persistent nun even waved away my atheism with "Honest doubt is an integral part of sincere faith."

(I'm using kitchenmaid in a purely gender-neutral sense here)

Heh.

I'm a Bahá'í who grew up on a predominantly Catholic island and attended a Catholic high school. I have a friendly relationship with other faiths, and for the most part it's mutual--at least on an individual level.

2:57 AM

You grew up? I've never quite managed that.

And it's true that faith is a process, a performative act, rather than a goal which can be checked off once accomplished. Reconciling doubt with conviction is part of the process.

That is true, I guess, but I've never had any doubts about my atheism.

Aye. Not all doubt is the doubt which drives the soul through the Valley of Search.

3:10 AM

Yes, like [jesting Pilate's]( bartleby.com/3/1/1.html), mine is merely radical skepticism.

H'm I wonder why that link didn't render.

Prolly the space.

4:29 AM

@verbose RE leaving comments asking for a different approach. I sometimes leave comments asking for a complete rewrite of an answer. I try to only do that if I feel that the answer, as it's currently written, is either incorrect, doesn't actually answer the question, or is correct but based on such a fundamental misunderstanding of the text that it's essentially worthless.

@verbose I'm hopeful that someone can write answer incorporating Barthes, New Criticism, and reader response. The truth is that I'm not really interested in theory for it's own sake.

Hopefully my own answer is useful for someone looking for an answer that doesn't rely on theory

Wow, two downvotes on my Julius Caesar answer in the last hour, both without explanation.

@verbose just fixed that :)

Just upvoted :-)

4:58 AM

@Hamlet This is, in many ways, my beef with Anglosphere analysis.

> Knowledge is like unto wings for the being (of man) and is like a ladder for ascending. To acquire knowledge is incumbent upon all, but of those sciences which may profit the people of the earth, and not such sciences as being in mere words and end in mere words.

There are ways in which literary criticism may profit the people of the earth, but the vast majority of its Euro-American implementation begins and ends in mere words.

@Shokhet Awesome! Welcome in :-D

There will be a new post up today (Tuesday).

The schedule's a little in flux, mostly because we're so close to the Hugo nomination deadline -- I'm always on the lookout for new roundups and recommendation posts.

But the next discussion will be on "The Fifth Gable," from Shimmer Magazine. (Content note: I haven't read it yet, but it focuses on losing children and infants. Just FYI.)

shimmerzine.com/the-fifth-gable-by-kay-chronister

5:15 AM

@Hamlet thanks for the bounty! I'm .... touched? flattered? I don't quite know what to say or do, actually. When I read your just fixed that I thought you meant you fixed the typo in your intentional fallacy answer, and I upvoted it. I didn't realize you were responding to my saying two folks had downvoted my JC answer.

In hindsight it looks as though I upvoted your answer as a quid pro quo for your adding a bounty to the JC question, and that really is not what happened; I didn't even notice the added bounty until just now. (Now I feel dirty 😅)

Re: theory and such, I do like theory, but it's very hard to write about intelligibly and concisely.

@Bookworm for a moment there I thought this was about @Randal'Thor

2

So I'm hoping BESW will do the honors.

Wait, @muru, you mean it isn't? 😐

2

5:56 AM

@verbose OMG you're getting 50 fake internet points! You should be super super flattered.

Oh believe me I am. I can barely contain myself.

Q: Are "choose your own adventure" books literature or games?

@verbose technically I fixed both issues, so you weren't wrong.

Also, if anyone wants a theory question that is actually interesting, try

4

This question concerns "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. These are books that start out as a normal story, but then ask the reader to make a choice. (The book will say something to the effect of "turn to page 8 if yes, page 9 if no"). In this fashion, the story expands like a tree. It seems to...

theory

"I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken." Okay.

6:14 AM

@Standback Thanks :)

@all: spam. literature.stackexchange.com/a/1775/481

Please DV and flag as spam so it can go away and go away fast :)

@muru :)

@Shokhet woah.. we're getting spam already? :') Such a proud moment (unless we have had spam before)

@muru ikr? This little site is getting all grown up :')

Now all we need are a few sock puppets running around...

@muru Here's one ^^^ :D

I vote for this one: amazon.com/Chomsky-Finger-Puppet-Refrigerator-Magnet/dp/…

Well it's a finger puppet but hey.

I have small feet.

6:26 AM

Ok, time to let the CMs know we can graduate!

3

Q: Help me identify an old children's picture book featuring anthropomimic arthropods

7:14 AM

With regard to this question I'm very, very tempted to post a reply saying Penelope wasn't as virtuous as all that. This website points out that Penelope's suitors had "eaten her out of house and home".

@MatrimCauthon ^

Bookworm

8:41 AM

1

The book in question was written prior to 1990. The pages probably had no words — I was able to read at the time, so either it was not narrated or the words were not memorable. Each page, or pair of pages, featured a scene in some fictional town which resembled a human town but populated by art...

story-identification

8:54 AM

@Shokhet gone.

user61230

10:54 AM

"Huh, this book is pretty old, maybe I can get it cheaper if I look for the first editioNOPE."

user61230

I want a physical copy of The Worm Ouroboros, but hey, I guess I'm not getting it in hardcover.

user61230

Somewhat shockingly, I don't have $3,000 to blow on a book I've read before.

4

@Emrakul that's... expensive.

Anybody know why I can't propose edits on Meta?

Q: Why can't I suggest edits on SE meta sites?

@Standback suggested edits aren't allowed in Meta

64

Right as I was going to post this as a possible bug, I finally found this post which says that per-site Metas don't have suggested edits by-design because it's "not needed". However, I've been participating a lot over at Skeptics meta where there is a lot still to be figured out in terms of site...

11:08 AM

@Mithrandir Huh.

Thanks. Also, ::headscratch::

@Mithrandir But wait, you edited posts on Meta!

@Standback I have edit privs

And @Randal'Thor edited this very question!

Ah, so with edit privileges I can?

Yes.

Ah. That's OK, then.

@Standback so you need another 7 rep :P

11:16 AM

...maybe I can find 3.5 tag wikis that need editing!

@Standback How about 4?

@Benjamin That feels like it would be excessive.

Don't overshoot; that's my motto!

user61230

Plan for 3.5, achieve 4, and you made it over the mark!

YAGNI. Am I going to need that 1001st point of rep?

@Standback if you ever feel like downvoting...

11:19 AM

@Mithrandir I always feel like downvoting! This shall be a healthy precaution.

So, who was accepted as mods? @Mithrandir

Oh, has there been a mod announcement? Mod rumors?

@Standback Well, Mith got an invitation.

@Benjamin don't know. I have to work it out with my parents if I can accept; don't know about anyone else.

@Mithrandir : Oh, hey, congrats! :D

11:22 AM

:D

Is there a reason accepting might be an issue?

@Standback What do you mean?

They think I'll spend too much time here if I'm a mod.

user61230

If it helps, you can add another voice that says it's not an enormous time suck.

Thanks, we're going to be discussing it tonight I think, after we get back home.

user61230

11:28 AM

Sure. Especially on a site like Literature, I imagine being a mod is... pretty much solely going to be a lot of reading and thinking.

Heh. It is a reading site :P

A major part of being a good moderator on the Stack is looking at a problem and being able to say "It's not on fire, I'm confident the citizens can handle it" and not get involved.

3

In a healthy Stack the citizens do a lot of the moderation work by flagging and voting and commenting. Mods generally handle flags that citizens use to call attention to problem spots, rather than going looking for problem spots themselves.

@BESW I see :P But yes, I believe that I can stand off when I don't need to get involved.

This is unlike some other kinds of sites, where moderators have to be actively looking for trouble because the community doesn't have the tools, or the inclination, to deal with small problems and call attention to large ones.

If your folks are more aware of those kinds of forums, that may be part of their concern.

My parents are basically only on FB...

user61230

11:39 AM

It might help, then, to draw an analogy to explain what it is you're going to be moderating.

Thanks for the advice!

@Mithrandir : Add my voice to @Emrakul and @BESW . I've been a mod on Writers.SE for years, and traffic just isn't high enough for it to be a major time suck.

And if it is, that usually means there's a dedicated community doing self-moderation work.

The time you're already spending on the site more than covers what you'll probably spend as mod -- although your priorities are likely to change somewhat.

For me a major stumbling block to being a mod is the emotional energy it requires, more than the time. But that's a very different sort of thing and if my situation weren't what it is I'd probably be a mod on RPG.SE.

More time on cleanup, maybe more time guiding meta discussions, or putting thought into site promotions. (Which you're already involved in. So, well. :) )

user61230

The irony is that, sometimes, being an effective moderator takes less work than being an ineffective one.

3

11:45 AM

Indeed.

(No comment on that from me. Writers.SE hasn't suffered much drama. ...or much traffic. I don't know if that speaks to my moderating ability or not :P )

@Standback sounds like it actually won't change what I do here :P

How many mods does SO have?

@Mithrandir : A good reason to offer it to you :)

user61230

@Benjamin This page shows 22.

11:52 AM

@Emrakul That's ... so few.

user61230

(Michael Myers has been around a long time; Robert Harvey and BoltClock as well. Most of them are far more recent, though.)

user61230

@Benjamin Yeah. SE doesn't usually like to add more than three or so at a time.

Michael wasn't even elected; he was appointed.

user61230

It's also worth noting that eight elected moderators have had to step down for one reason or another in SO's history, and yeah, as @Mithrandir, only MMyers is left of the SO pro-tems.